Dragon scale mail (the magic item) provides a non-homebrew armor with better AC than hide that isn't metal.
Studded leather is or isn't metal as determined by each individual group. Some don't mind having the studs be non-metal materials like bone or stone. Some groups realize that what D&D calls studded leather is a misunderstanding of brigandine armor, and consider it metal because it was numerous metal plates sandwiched between layers of soft leather and attached by rivets (giving the look of studs)
As for whether druids are "doomed" to lower ACs for a reason, that reason is flavor, and it isn't much of a doom since their armor options aren't all that far behind, plus they have the barkskin spell to get them heavy-armor comparable AC if they want it and can't get it some other way.
Aaron got the right idea. I think barkskin should definitely be remembered, not to mention that you could shapechange into something with higher natural AC.
I've always had issues with the "natural armor" as it pure flavor text and I dislike flavor text telling gamers how every one of a class is supposed to work. I wish Wizards would give exotic armor options as standard (even if it's a footnote in the armor section) instead of feeling like it's an afterthought. I remember 3.5's Dungeon Master's guide (p283) said "An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not." and I thought "Has no one had Wizards ever held 6 feet of 1" steel pipe before?!"
(Ex: Since 3rd Edition I always wanted to make a Dwarf Druid, who was a "Wayfinder" through the deep parts of the mountains. They'd wear metal as animals don't exist as much and it makes them "one with the mountain", but RAW has always said "no".)
Because of this I've seen arguments for multiclassing the Druid as Barbarian, Sorcerer, or Monk. I've seen discussions on whether the Druid can keep using the Unarmored Defense while in animal form. Although, every level you lose from Druid is a level of CR you lose.
I disagree with Barkskin as a "viable" option until Druids get something like the Warlock's "Armor of the Shadows" where you can always have it active all the time.
I requires a level 2 slot
It only last an hour
It requires Concentration, so without a Feat or 2:
WarCaster for Adv on Constitution savs for spells
Resilient Constitution to be proficient in Con saves
I'm not saying you *need* one or both to be effective, but you can quickly lose your AC from a single bad roll and it's not something you can keep up. Also. you lose your first turn of every fight to it and god help you if you lose Barkskin in combat you have to come out of your animal form to re-cast.
@AaronTheBarbarian: I don't think I ever saw that armor, could you cite book/page?
@Shaman: very very few animals have better then 12-14 AC, so animal forms will rarely outclass a reasonable dex + leather (possibly a shield).
Thank you AaronOfBarbarian. I always forgot about it because it's "Very Rare" with a lot of powers. I think most of us are hoping for something attainable by low level characters. Possibly even rules for Druids making their own armor for slain beasts... How is this not WORSE then metal?! ;)
My current Druid is a Lizardman from Volo's Guide. I enjoy using the Lizardman power to make weapons/shields from the slain to the chagrin of my party.
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the wording of Barkskin sets AC to 16, and no higher. So even if you have a +5 in Dex, and a shield, you really get no benefit from Barkskin.
You could work with your DM to create better armor from slain monsters or beasts, as mentioned above. My druid has armor made of bulette hide and umberhulk shells. If you can obtain a Ring of Protection (non-metal if you prefer) and a +1/2/3 wooden shield then your AC should be decent. My druid has an AC of 20!
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the wording of Barkskin sets AC to 16, and no higher. So even if you have a +5 in Dex, and a shield, you really get no benefit from Barkskin.
Yes, you are right. I suggested high DEX and shield because you cannot always use barkskin, since it is a 2nd level spell that requires concentration.
I've never used the spell because it's obsolete to my character. I have low-mid Dex (a +2) with no plans to increase it. It doesn't fit in with my plans for the character. That with a studded leather (using bone and sinew instead of metal) gives me a 16 already. My DM and I have sat down and come up with a plan for better AC later in the adventure. However, with my Con based druid, it's less necessary than for some others.
Also for most Druids, or rather, most Circle of the Moon Druids, the main focus and survivability for them is the ability to wild shape. If you aren't a Druid that focuses on wild shape, then you probably should be focusing on spellcasting, and would thus stay mostly out of the thick of battle until some creature makes it past your melee friends. If that happens, use your action to wild shape to ensure your survivibility and maul the guy. Having a high A.C on characters is nice and all, but there are other ways to survive than just relying on a high A.C.
Aside from armor, another thing to help with survivibility would be the Tough feat. The first time you take it, it increases your hp by an amount equal to twice your level. Whenever you gain a level your hp maximum increases by an additional 2 hp. (player's handbook page 170). That's a great feat to take on any character really, even ones that have high hp or A.C it just makes them that much harder to take down.
Still a really good way to get higher A.C is to work with your DM and see if he/she allows the skinning of animals for the sake of having their pelts turned into armor. In my experience, most DM's allow that, as it seems a natural part of the world. Like, why wouldn't adventurer's do that?
Also a cloak of protection would be helpful, even if you wildshape you can choose to not have it shape with you. Then you're a bear or whatever wearing a cape and still get that +1 bonus to A.C. and saving throws.
I enjoy the challenge of having a low AC. I feel like it fits a circle of the moon Druid. Similar to how wild animals don't wear armor, druids don't wear that much either.
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the wording of Barkskin sets AC to 16, and no higher. So even if you have a +5 in Dex, and a shield, you really get no benefit from Barkskin.
Yes, you are right. I suggested high DEX and shield because you cannot always use barkskin, since it is a 2nd level spell that requires concentration.
Incorrect. Barkskin sets AC to 16 minimum. If you have other modifiers (shield + Dex) that boost it beyond 16 then you ignore Barkskin and take the higher AC.
Also: what's wrong with a little homebrewery? Similar to the Lizardfolk druid example above a PC proficient in skinning and leatherworking tools could feasibly harvest natural scales from slain monsters (dragons, basilisks, bulette) and craft them into non-magical natural versions of say scale or a breastplate (a bulette breastplate sounds pretty cool actually). Then later as the party advances in level and resources the non-magical versions could be enchanted and perhaps made unique.
A bulette breastplate that allows the wearer to tunnel through the earth up to it's movement speed? Craziness.
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the wording of Barkskin sets AC to 16, and no higher. So even if you have a +5 in Dex, and a shield, you really get no benefit from Barkskin.
Yes, you are right. I suggested high DEX and shield because you cannot always use barkskin, since it is a 2nd level spell that requires concentration.
Incorrect. Barkskin sets AC to 16 minimum. If you have other modifiers (shield + Dex) that boost it beyond 16 then you ignore Barkskin and take the higher AC.
Also: what's wrong with a little homebrewery? Similar to the Lizardfolk druid example above a PC proficient in skinning and leatherworking tools could feasibly harvest natural scales from slain monsters (dragons, basilisks, bulette) and craft them into non-magical natural versions of say scale or a breastplate (a bulette breastplate sounds pretty cool actually). Then later as the party advances in level and resources the non-magical versions could be enchanted and perhaps made unique.
A bulette breastplate that allows the wearer to tunnel through the earth up to it's movement speed? Craziness.
I understood what you meant. My point was that Barkskin quickly becomes obsolete since you can get above the cap that Barkskin allows without it. I've never used it because I've never needed it. I have the AC that Barkskin grants from my armor, and Dex mod. If I decide to add a shield; (which I most likely won't because I used my nifty magic Scimitar in one hand and my druid focus in the other); I would be above that AC.
Side note: I just recently switched to the play test Circle of Twilight. Has anyone else used this path? Is it worth the shift?
Aaron got the right idea. I think barkskin should definitely be remembered, not to mention that you could shapechange into something with higher natural AC.
This is probably one of the reasons they have lower AC, because they can easily gain double+ hp. Having lower AC when they are finally forced into their normal human form helps make up for the larger Hp pool compared to other party members.
Also for most Druids, or rather, most Circle of the Moon Druids, the main focus and survivability for them is the ability to wild shape. If you aren't a Druid that focuses on wild shape, then you probably should be focusing on spellcasting, and would thus stay mostly out of the thick of battle until some creature makes it past your melee friends. If that happens, use your action to wild shape to ensure your survivibility and maul the guy. Having a high A.C on characters is nice and all, but there are other ways to survive than just relying on a high A.C.
Aside from armor, another thing to help with survivibility would be the Tough feat. The first time you take it, it increases your hp by an amount equal to twice your level. Whenever you gain a level your hp maximum increases by an additional 2 hp. (player's handbook page 170). That's a great feat to take on any character really, even ones that have high hp or A.C it just makes them that much harder to take down.
Still a really good way to get higher A.C is to work with your DM and see if he/she allows the skinning of animals for the sake of having their pelts turned into armor. In my experience, most DM's allow that, as it seems a natural part of the world. Like, why wouldn't adventurer's do that?
Also a cloak of protection would be helpful, even if you wildshape you can choose to not have it shape with you. Then you're a bear or whatever wearing a cape and still get that +1 bonus to A.C. and saving throws.
I couldn't agree with Lark more. I enjoy one player campaigns with a DM. My Circle of Land Druid depends on spells to immobilize enemies and then use ranged attacks or push them back with Thunderwave. He also has the ever-so-broken Bag of Tricks (Summon 3 beasts) & Staff of the Python. That's up to four fairly strong beast used a fur shields and the Druid stays well out of Melee combat especially when Enhance Ability or Barkskin is used on these beasts instead.
As a Circle of Moon Druid, forget about armor! Cast Barkskin at the beginning of combat then as a Bonus action Wild Shape into a Giant Hyena (HP of 6d10 + 12) and the best part you can start this at 2ND LEVEL!!! It's like a 6th level Fighter that can move almost twice as fast. Once the Wild Shape HP have been exhausted just rinse and repeat and you will almost never touch your Druid humanoid HP. After two uses of Wild Shape take a Short Rest and let the rampage continue.
AC is important but Lark is right, "there are other ways to survive than just relying on high A.C."
Is there any non-homebrew way to get any armor better than hide armor for a druid? Are druids doomed to lower ACs for a reason?
Side-note: does studded leather count as metal armor?
Dragon scale mail (the magic item) provides a non-homebrew armor with better AC than hide that isn't metal.
Studded leather is or isn't metal as determined by each individual group. Some don't mind having the studs be non-metal materials like bone or stone. Some groups realize that what D&D calls studded leather is a misunderstanding of brigandine armor, and consider it metal because it was numerous metal plates sandwiched between layers of soft leather and attached by rivets (giving the look of studs)
As for whether druids are "doomed" to lower ACs for a reason, that reason is flavor, and it isn't much of a doom since their armor options aren't all that far behind, plus they have the barkskin spell to get them heavy-armor comparable AC if they want it and can't get it some other way.
Aaron got the right idea. I think barkskin should definitely be remembered, not to mention that you could shapechange into something with higher natural AC.
The problem with barkskin is the concentration. I would suggest leather/hide armor, with medium/hogh DEX and shield.
I've always had issues with the "natural armor" as it pure flavor text and I dislike flavor text telling gamers how every one of a class is supposed to work. I wish Wizards would give exotic armor options as standard (even if it's a footnote in the armor section) instead of feeling like it's an afterthought. I remember 3.5's Dungeon Master's guide (p283) said "An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not." and I thought "Has no one had Wizards ever held 6 feet of 1" steel pipe before?!"
(Ex: Since 3rd Edition I always wanted to make a Dwarf Druid, who was a "Wayfinder" through the deep parts of the mountains. They'd wear metal as animals don't exist as much and it makes them "one with the mountain", but RAW has always said "no".)
Because of this I've seen arguments for multiclassing the Druid as Barbarian, Sorcerer, or Monk. I've seen discussions on whether the Druid can keep using the Unarmored Defense while in animal form. Although, every level you lose from Druid is a level of CR you lose.
I disagree with Barkskin as a "viable" option until Druids get something like the Warlock's "Armor of the Shadows" where you can always have it active all the time.
I'm not saying you *need* one or both to be effective, but you can quickly lose your AC from a single bad roll and it's not something you can keep up. Also. you lose your first turn of every fight to it and god help you if you lose Barkskin in combat you have to come out of your animal form to re-cast.
@AaronTheBarbarian: I don't think I ever saw that armor, could you cite book/page?
@Shaman: very very few animals have better then 12-14 AC, so animal forms will rarely outclass a reasonable dex + leather (possibly a shield).
Thank you AaronOfBarbarian. I always forgot about it because it's "Very Rare" with a lot of powers. I think most of us are hoping for something attainable by low level characters. Possibly even rules for Druids making their own armor for slain beasts...
How is this not WORSE then metal?! ;)
My current Druid is a Lizardman from Volo's Guide. I enjoy using the Lizardman power to make weapons/shields from the slain to the chagrin of my party.
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the wording of Barkskin sets AC to 16, and no higher. So even if you have a +5 in Dex, and a shield, you really get no benefit from Barkskin.
You could work with your DM to create better armor from slain monsters or beasts, as mentioned above. My druid has armor made of bulette hide and umberhulk shells. If you can obtain a Ring of Protection (non-metal if you prefer) and a +1/2/3 wooden shield then your AC should be decent. My druid has an AC of 20!
I've never used the spell because it's obsolete to my character. I have low-mid Dex (a +2) with no plans to increase it. It doesn't fit in with my plans for the character. That with a studded leather (using bone and sinew instead of metal) gives me a 16 already. My DM and I have sat down and come up with a plan for better AC later in the adventure. However, with my Con based druid, it's less necessary than for some others.
Also for most Druids, or rather, most Circle of the Moon Druids, the main focus and survivability for them is the ability to wild shape. If you aren't a Druid that focuses on wild shape, then you probably should be focusing on spellcasting, and would thus stay mostly out of the thick of battle until some creature makes it past your melee friends. If that happens, use your action to wild shape to ensure your survivibility and maul the guy. Having a high A.C on characters is nice and all, but there are other ways to survive than just relying on a high A.C.
Aside from armor, another thing to help with survivibility would be the Tough feat. The first time you take it, it increases your hp by an amount equal to twice your level. Whenever you gain a level your hp maximum increases by an additional 2 hp. (player's handbook page 170). That's a great feat to take on any character really, even ones that have high hp or A.C it just makes them that much harder to take down.
Still a really good way to get higher A.C is to work with your DM and see if he/she allows the skinning of animals for the sake of having their pelts turned into armor. In my experience, most DM's allow that, as it seems a natural part of the world. Like, why wouldn't adventurer's do that?
Also a cloak of protection would be helpful, even if you wildshape you can choose to not have it shape with you. Then you're a bear or whatever wearing a cape and still get that +1 bonus to A.C. and saving throws.
I enjoy the challenge of having a low AC. I feel like it fits a circle of the moon Druid. Similar to how wild animals don't wear armor, druids don't wear that much either.
I have no problem with Homebrew and I think it's great, but for one reason or another most of my games have been pretty RAW.
So, I prefer it if Wizards at least acknowledges basic options.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
I couldn't agree with Lark more. I enjoy one player campaigns with a DM. My Circle of Land Druid depends on spells to immobilize enemies and then use ranged attacks or push them back with Thunderwave. He also has the ever-so-broken Bag of Tricks (Summon 3 beasts) & Staff of the Python. That's up to four fairly strong beast used a fur shields and the Druid stays well out of Melee combat especially when Enhance Ability or Barkskin is used on these beasts instead.
As a Circle of Moon Druid, forget about armor! Cast Barkskin at the beginning of combat then as a Bonus action Wild Shape into a Giant Hyena (HP of 6d10 + 12) and the best part you can start this at 2ND LEVEL!!! It's like a 6th level Fighter that can move almost twice as fast. Once the Wild Shape HP have been exhausted just rinse and repeat and you will almost never touch your Druid humanoid HP. After two uses of Wild Shape take a Short Rest and let the rampage continue.
AC is important but Lark is right, "there are other ways to survive than just relying on high A.C."
can not do studded leather... people miss the point of balance in this game.