The Arcane Archer subclass of Fighter says that it has two uses of Arcane Shot at level 3, and regains used charges on short and long rests. My question however is this: how many uses do I have at higher levels? Xanathar's Guide never specifies; it only says that I gain additional options at 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th levels.
If one assumes that they don't get additional charges, and are dependent on their level 15 feature Ever-Ready Shot (which says that if they enter combat with no uses of arcane shot, they gain one), then the class itself is going to be incredibly neutered.
The only other way I see is that they have a number of uses equal to the number of Arcane Shot options they have.
That seems really ... weak. Why should the class under perform until level 15? That doesn't make sense to me. Magic Users gain additional spell slots, why don't they get additional uses?
I don't think I was giving enough credit to the charges refilling on short rests, or all of the regular fighter stuff like extra attack. Consider me satisfied.
A 3rd level Arcane Archer can use Bursting Arrow twice catching only 2 creatures each time and already 8d6 (28) damage. That's a bit more than what a 10th level Battle Master can spend on damage (5d10 superiority die, 27.5 damage). It's super easy to do more just by catching more creatures in the blast.
On the utility side of things, Arcane Shots have stronger effects than Battle Master maneuvers.
Also, Curving Shot lets you try to turn a miss into a hit every round and pairs really well with Sharpshooter.
Compared to the Eldritch Knight, Battlemaster, and honestly dare I say the Champion, two uses of what's supposed to be your're classes shtick is...underwhelming. I mean, if it was at least four a day in comparability to the Battlemasters Superiority die it'd be one thing, but it being so limited even with it recharging on a short rest, it strikes me as hampering what would otherwise be a defining characteristic of a character.
Compared to the Eldritch Knight, Battlemaster, and honestly dare I say the Champion, two uses of what's supposed to be your're classes shtick is...underwhelming. I mean, if it was at least four a day in comparability to the Battlemasters Superiority die it'd be one thing, but it being so limited even with it recharging on a short rest, it strikes me as hampering what would otherwise be a defining characteristic of a character.
If your DM is tiring the party out, they should be giving you at least 2 short rests, so that's 6 shots. Eldritch Knights start with only two level 2 spell slots for the whole day and only get more slots every 3 levels. The Champion's Improved Critical Hit sucks and you don't even get to pick when it happens.
It's true 2 per short rest might seem too little for some players, but it's par for the course if you consider that's also how Warlocks work.
It's true 2 per short rest might seem too little for some players, but it's par for the course if you consider that's also how Warlocks work.
Warlocks end up getting 4 slots. Plus freebies from Mystic Arcanum and Invocations. Again, you're not comparing like-for-like and only cherry-picking the most advantageous examples for your arguments.
The Champion's Improved Critical Hit sucks and you don't even get to pick when it happens.
That I'll grant you, since the Champion doesn't get any fiddly bits you actually get to actively use, but at least comparatively, your class features are always on, and you can still have your character be a Champion and have that impact throughout the entire game. Sure, you're right about the Eldritch Knight, but the key word there is they start out that way. If the Eldritch Knight class could only cast two spells forever and ever, that's a problem, but they don't. They improve, and as greater threats and larger battles take place, they can use what makes their class what it is last much longer.
The Arcane Archer has to, for the entire game, constantly hold back their use of an Arcane Shot until they know they have to use it. With only two uses of it, almost any given player is going to use those abilities so conservatively, you're not really getting to play what's a defining characteristic for your character. Its a total drag to be stuck at the same place you've been for the entire game, and just getting access to a few more shot attacks isn't really going to make up for it.
You're not comparing like-for-like. You can't say AoE damage is comparable to single target. The two are not the same.
Sure can. The game is full of single target and multi-target spells at the same spell levels, so obviously the designers think they can be compared. The DMG even has a table saying how much each one should do at each spell level.
Warlocks end up getting 4 slots. Plus freebies from Mystic Arcanum and Invocations.
Yeah, and Arcane Archers end up getting a free arcane shot every time they start a fight without one, and their shots at the same time Warlocks get that 4th slot. Plus freebies like Curving Arrow, and the class features that are already built into the Fighter class like Action Surge and Indomitable.
Again, you're not comparing like-for-like and only cherry-picking the most advantageous examples for your arguments.
Does anyone pick examples that aren't advantageous to their arguments?
That I'll grant you, since the Champion doesn't get any fiddly bits you actually get to actively use, but at least comparatively, your class features are always on, and you can still have your character be a Champion and have that impact throughout the entire game.
Yes, but those class features that are always on barely do anythingexcept for Survivor at 18th level. You could pick any subclass other than Champion and contribute more throughout the entire game. You could pick Battle Master and use your maneuvers more or less arbitrarily on enemies and end up doing more damageand still get useful secondary effects.
Sure, you're right about the Eldritch Knight, but the key word there is they start out that way. If the Eldritch Knight class could only cast two spells forever and ever, that's a problem, but they don't. They improve, and as greater threats and larger battles take place, they can use what makes their class what it is last much longer.
Yeah, but by the time they're catching up in number slots to Arcane Archer's 6 daily shots, Arcane Archer is getting Curving Shot. Getting a chance to turn a miss into a hit whenever there's another enemy around is great, and you normally don't have anything to use your bonus action on when using a bow. And again, it's really great when paired with Sharpshooter, since the downside of Sharpshooter is that it makes you more likely to miss.
Even when Eldritch Knights catch up, 4 of those 6 spell slots are 1st level spells, and I'd argue Arcane Shots are stronger. Consider Bursting Arrow:
It can be used from up to 150 feet away with a Longbow (unlike, say, Burning Hands)
Deals force damage (which nothing in the Monster Manual resists and only 1 monster is immune to) instead of fire/ice (commonly resisted, especially fire)
No save. Spells with saves for half damage are only about 75% effective (roughly half the enemies will save)
Doesn't take up your action. This is a big one. You still get all of your attacks when you use Arcane Shots. Every time you cast a spell as an action, you're losing all the damage you'd do from 2-3 attacks, and as you get higher level, you lose more damage. An EK's War Magic somewhat compensates for this, but only when using cantrips.
Also consider Grasping Arrow. It has no save so you can't possibly waste it. Someone will have to waste at least 1 action on an Athletics check to get it off or suck up the 2d6 slashing damage every time they move for 1 minute. There's practically 0 monsters with proficiency in Athletics that aren't human-shaped, and Strength correlates well with size so you can be pretty sure Medium or smaller creatures aren't going to have high Strength scores.
Banishing Arrow can take an enemy out of the fight for one round in exchange for a Charisma save. That's a rare effect (most banishment-type spells are relatively high level) and most monsters are bad at Charisma checks; the less sentient they are (e.g. oozes) the lower their Charisma scores tend to be, unlike Wisdom which rarely goes very low since it's tied to awareness of your surroundings. It also incapacitates them if it succeeds, which'll instantly kill any spell they might be concentrating on if the damage didn't already do it.
The Arcane Archer has to, for the entire game, constantly hold back their use of an Arcane Shot until they know they have to use it. With only two uses of it, almost any given player is going to use those abilities so conservatively, you're not really getting to play what's a defining characteristic for your character. Its a total drag to be stuck at the same place you've been for the entire game, and just getting access to a few more shot attacks isn't really going to make up for it.
The same argument applies to Warlocks from levels 1 through 10 (and even at 11-17, having a third slot isn't that much different). Just don't be so conservative. If you see 3+ enemies together, don't pass up on Bursting Arrow thinking "hmm, I might be able to get a bigger group of monsters later." You might lose some damage if a bigger group really does turn up later, but you will lose all value from your shots if you don't use them by the time the party takes a short rest.
Besides, this also applies to Action Surge, which is one of Fighter's defining abilities and it's even more limited (one use until level 17). And Indomitable is even more limited (1 use per long rest). They're still great abilities.
I know my previous post is already super long but there were still a couple of things I missed and I feel it's too much to edit in.
Some more advantages to Arcane Shots over spells:
They don't use concentration. Once someone's been hit by Grasping Arrow, they can't try to end the effect by damaging or incapacitating you.
They can't be counterspelled.
They can't be dispelled.
You can use them with the Ready action without risking losing it if the trigger doesn't happens, or being interrupted if you're damaged before then.
I also forgot to point out that it's easy to make Grasping Arrow harder to take off with Hex or Bane, and it's particularly devastating with Sickening Radiance. The 30 foot radius of the spell and the fact that Grasping Arrow reduces speed by 10 feet will force many creatures to Dash and move immediately, triggering the damage from Grasping Arrow. Even if they leave the area, they now have one level of exhaustion, which gives them disadvantage on the check to remove Grasping Arrow. You can make this even deadlier with Spike Growth and/or Ray of Frost. If they take a second level of exhaustion, their speed will be halved, which is really unfortunate for them if you also have a way to push them back in (e.g. Repelling Blast, Open Hand Technique, Fist of Unbroken Air, Thunderwave.)
I also think they'd still take the slashing damage from Grasping Arrow with forced movement, which opens up a lot of possibilities with spells like Thorn Whip or Lightning Lure, or Monk features like Open Hand Technique or Water Whip. I'm trying to get an answer on this one from Crawford to be sure.
Also, there is one particular shot that indirectly gets better as you level up, and helps cover the gap between 7 and 15: Shadow Arrow. If the target fails their Wisdom saving throw, their vision is reduced to 5 feet until the end of their next turn, which means every other ranged attack you (and everyone else) make that round will have advantage against it. This becomes particularly good at level 11, since you'll have 3 attacks then. You can seriously exploit this by being an elf, starting with 17 DEX, picking up Elven Accuracy at level 4 for 18 DEX, bumping that up to 20 at level 6, and picking up Sharpshooter at 8. Your total attack bonus at level 11 will be +11, which is still +6 after taking the -5 penalty from Sharpshooter.
You use Shadow Arrow on your first attack, and if they fail the save, you Action Surge for 5 more attacks. With 3d20 per attack, you have a 72% chance of rolling 14 or higher, which with the +6 bonus is enough to hit AC 20 (there's nothing higher than that in the Monster Manual below CR 21). You can expect to hit at least 3 shots for 1d8 + 15 each, more if the enemy has lower AC, there's a second enemy around for you to use Curving Shot with, or someone throws you Haste. You'll also score a critical hit a bit over half of the time that you do this. Other races can do this to a lesser extent with the Lucky feat. This can work before level 11, but the returns aren't as good with a lower proficiency bonus and only 2 attacks.
Arcane Archer as published was a bit disappointing to me, even if it can be shown to be comparable in balance to other subclasses. It just didn't capture the FEEL of ARCANE I had in mind, though I can't quite exactly define its shortcomings.
Also, there's a glaring problem (which I hope is just a miswording) with 3rd level feature Arcane Shot: "Once per turn when you fire a MAGIC ARROW..." But it's not until 7th level that you get the feature Magic Arrow. And its wording could be interpreted so as to only imbue arrows with magic AFTER they have been fired from the bow. Best case, RAW, you can't use your 3rd level DEFINING feature until 7th level, unless you find magical ammunition.
For my money, if I wanted to play an arcane archer type in 5e, RAW, I'm probly going with ranged Arcane Trickster or some variation of Ranger.
Also, there's a glaring problem (which I hope is just a miswording) with 3rd level feature Arcane Shot: "Once per turn when you fire a MAGIC ARROW..." But it's not until 7th level that you get the feature Magic Arrow.
That was changed to "an arrow" in D&D Beyond and new printings within a few days of the book coming out.
just ask the dm to make the arcane shot charges equal to their Int modifier. It then gives more importance to the Intelligence stat than just improving saves.
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The Arcane Archer subclass of Fighter says that it has two uses of Arcane Shot at level 3, and regains used charges on short and long rests. My question however is this: how many uses do I have at higher levels? Xanathar's Guide never specifies; it only says that I gain additional options at 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th levels.
If one assumes that they don't get additional charges, and are dependent on their level 15 feature Ever-Ready Shot (which says that if they enter combat with no uses of arcane shot, they gain one), then the class itself is going to be incredibly neutered.
The only other way I see is that they have a number of uses equal to the number of Arcane Shot options they have.
Any input would be appreciated!
The Arcane Archer always have 2 uses of the Shots per short/long rest. At higher levels, you gain more options, not more uses.
That seems really ... weak. Why should the class under perform until level 15? That doesn't make sense to me. Magic Users gain additional spell slots, why don't they get additional uses?
Arcane Archer is still a fighter, not a spellcaster. Its features seem in line with the other fighter archetypes.
I don't think I was giving enough credit to the charges refilling on short rests, or all of the regular fighter stuff like extra attack. Consider me satisfied.
Thank you for your responses.
Compared to the Eldritch Knight, Battlemaster, and honestly dare I say the Champion, two uses of what's supposed to be your're classes shtick is...underwhelming. I mean, if it was at least four a day in comparability to the Battlemasters Superiority die it'd be one thing, but it being so limited even with it recharging on a short rest, it strikes me as hampering what would otherwise be a defining characteristic of a character.
I know my previous post is already super long but there were still a couple of things I missed and I feel it's too much to edit in.
Some more advantages to Arcane Shots over spells:
I also forgot to point out that it's easy to make Grasping Arrow harder to take off with Hex or Bane, and it's particularly devastating with Sickening Radiance. The 30 foot radius of the spell and the fact that Grasping Arrow reduces speed by 10 feet will force many creatures to Dash and move immediately, triggering the damage from Grasping Arrow. Even if they leave the area, they now have one level of exhaustion, which gives them disadvantage on the check to remove Grasping Arrow. You can make this even deadlier with Spike Growth and/or Ray of Frost. If they take a second level of exhaustion, their speed will be halved, which is really unfortunate for them if you also have a way to push them back in (e.g. Repelling Blast, Open Hand Technique, Fist of Unbroken Air, Thunderwave.)
I also think they'd still take the slashing damage from Grasping Arrow with forced movement, which opens up a lot of possibilities with spells like Thorn Whip or Lightning Lure, or Monk features like Open Hand Technique or Water Whip. I'm trying to get an answer on this one from Crawford to be sure.
Also, there is one particular shot that indirectly gets better as you level up, and helps cover the gap between 7 and 15: Shadow Arrow. If the target fails their Wisdom saving throw, their vision is reduced to 5 feet until the end of their next turn, which means every other ranged attack you (and everyone else) make that round will have advantage against it. This becomes particularly good at level 11, since you'll have 3 attacks then. You can seriously exploit this by being an elf, starting with 17 DEX, picking up Elven Accuracy at level 4 for 18 DEX, bumping that up to 20 at level 6, and picking up Sharpshooter at 8. Your total attack bonus at level 11 will be +11, which is still +6 after taking the -5 penalty from Sharpshooter.
You use Shadow Arrow on your first attack, and if they fail the save, you Action Surge for 5 more attacks. With 3d20 per attack, you have a 72% chance of rolling 14 or higher, which with the +6 bonus is enough to hit AC 20 (there's nothing higher than that in the Monster Manual below CR 21). You can expect to hit at least 3 shots for 1d8 + 15 each, more if the enemy has lower AC, there's a second enemy around for you to use Curving Shot with, or someone throws you Haste. You'll also score a critical hit a bit over half of the time that you do this. Other races can do this to a lesser extent with the Lucky feat. This can work before level 11, but the returns aren't as good with a lower proficiency bonus and only 2 attacks.
Jeremy answered. Grasping Arrow does in fact deal damage with forced movement.
That and 2 per short rest is the same as wild shape, warlock slots until Lv. 10, and some things I can't remember
Post under the same name at Giant in the Playground, and rarely here.
Arcane Archer as published was a bit disappointing to me, even if it can be shown to be comparable in balance to other subclasses. It just didn't capture the FEEL of ARCANE I had in mind, though I can't quite exactly define its shortcomings.
Also, there's a glaring problem (which I hope is just a miswording) with 3rd level feature Arcane Shot: "Once per turn when you fire a MAGIC ARROW..." But it's not until 7th level that you get the feature Magic Arrow. And its wording could be interpreted so as to only imbue arrows with magic AFTER they have been fired from the bow. Best case, RAW, you can't use your 3rd level DEFINING feature until 7th level, unless you find magical ammunition.
For my money, if I wanted to play an arcane archer type in 5e, RAW, I'm probly going with ranged Arcane Trickster or some variation of Ranger.
just ask the dm to make the arcane shot charges equal to their Int modifier. It then gives more importance to the Intelligence stat than just improving saves.