I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't literally a sale. But treating it like it's a sale on a practical level is letting yourself be taken advantage of as a consumer.
I don't think I follow. Are you saying that if I, as a consumer, do not view Amazon's price of (currently) $28.84 as if it were the full/normal retail price of Xanathar's Guide to Everything that I am letting myself be taken advantage of as a consumer - such that I should view the price of $49.95 at the shop down the street from my home as being 173% of the normal price (one might use the term "rip off" to refer to a price that much higher than whatever is considered normal)?
Because if that isn't what you are saying, and I should still be considering the $28.84 as being a good deal, but also be considering $49.95 to be the full/normal price, I fail to see what practical difference there is in whether or not I consider what is literally a sale to be practically a sale too. In fact, it seems that if I were to consider the $28.84 as the "normal" price instead of a sale, I would risk myself becoming upset should the price go up to $36.54 (the current Amazon price for the Player's Handbook) because that is then a price I would have to consider as "higher than normal" to not be wildly inconsistent in my consideration of what is a "normal" and what is a "sale."
It's a semantic argument, I know, but a sale is during which a retailer sells goods at reduced prices - which is how Amazon's pricing is literally a sale; it's just that their period for that sell is "until we decide to change the price to something else."
But that's literally what all price points are, for every item, for every retailer. I can get a box of cereal for $2.49 at one grocery store, or the exact same box for $3.49 at another grocery store. That doesn't make the first one "on sale." Both companies have made decisions on what to charge for that item based on any number of factors, including how much smaller of a profit margin they're willing to bear. And they are both free to raise or lower those prices in order to make more sales or increase profit margin per sale. And this happens all the time.
If Amazon is willing and able to charge less for an item, they can do so. They make less profit but get more business (presumably). Their price fluctuates a bit, but again, so do prices for many things, at many retailers. $30(-ish) is just their price point. It's not some amazing bonus we are being granted. If they wanted to charge MSRP, they could.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't literally a sale. But treating it like it's a sale on a practical level is letting yourself be taken advantage of as a consumer.
I don't think I follow. Are you saying that if I, as a consumer, do not view Amazon's price of (currently) $28.84 as if it were the full/normal retail price of Xanathar's Guide to Everything that I am letting myself be taken advantage of as a consumer - such that I should view the price of $49.95 at the shop down the street from my home as being 173% of the normal price (one might use the term "rip off" to refer to a price that much higher than whatever is considered normal)?
Because if that isn't what you are saying, and I should still be considering the $28.84 as being a good deal, but also be considering $49.95 to be the full/normal price, I fail to see what practical difference there is in whether or not I consider what is literally a sale to be practically a sale too. In fact, it seems that if I were to consider the $28.84 as the "normal" price instead of a sale, I would risk myself becoming upset should the price go up to $36.54 (the current Amazon price for the Player's Handbook) because that is then a price I would have to consider as "higher than normal" to not be wildly inconsistent in my consideration of what is a "normal" and what is a "sale."
You don't have to consider anything as "normal." Currently (AFAIK), Amazon charges the least, so that is the best deal. There's nothing inherently good or bad about charging MSRP, but if someone else is charging less, you are not offering as good a deal as they are.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't literally a sale. But treating it like it's a sale on a practical level is letting yourself be taken advantage of as a consumer.
I don't think I follow. Are you saying that if I, as a consumer, do not view Amazon's price of (currently) $28.84 as if it were the full/normal retail price of Xanathar's Guide to Everything that I am letting myself be taken advantage of as a consumer - such that I should view the price of $49.95 at the shop down the street from my home as being 173% of the normal price (one might use the term "rip off" to refer to a price that much higher than whatever is considered normal)?
Because if that isn't what you are saying, and I should still be considering the $28.84 as being a good deal, but also be considering $49.95 to be the full/normal price, I fail to see what practical difference there is in whether or not I consider what is literally a sale to be practically a sale too. In fact, it seems that if I were to consider the $28.84 as the "normal" price instead of a sale, I would risk myself becoming upset should the price go up to $36.54 (the current Amazon price for the Player's Handbook) because that is then a price I would have to consider as "higher than normal" to not be wildly inconsistent in my consideration of what is a "normal" and what is a "sale."
You don't have to consider anything as "normal." Currently (AFAIK), Amazon charges the least, so that is the best deal. There's nothing inherently good or bad about charging MSRP, but if someone else is charging less, you are not offering as good a deal as they are.
I view the price on the back of the book as the normal selling price for NEW books. Anyone such as Amazon and Walmart* are cut throat business models and can buy in such quantity that they sell at a lower cost, but that is not a sale. That is their normal price. When the book first came out and my FLGS was giving 10% off, that is a sale.
Also it is about convenience and time. When XGtE was released, I could have ordered it from Amazon and waited for that release date and saved some cash. I walked into my FLGS the day before the store release which was two weeks early as i recall. They already had them sitting on the counter price marking them. I asked (and of course the special covers were already taken) and was told i could put in a pre-order and it would be waiting the next day for pickup. However, they had a lot and said it wouldn't be a worry to get one. I decided that the extra cost was worth the increased price to get it early.
Now buying used is a whole other debate, but then i usually go with about 1/2 the cover price unless it is rare or OOP (Half Price Books).
*bet you didn't know Wallyworld sells D&D did ya? BTW, the PHB is listed at $36.41. Cheaper than Amazon!
I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't literally a sale. But treating it like it's a sale on a practical level is letting yourself be taken advantage of as a consumer.
I don't think I follow. Are you saying that if I, as a consumer, do not view Amazon's price of (currently) $28.84 as if it were the full/normal retail price of Xanathar's Guide to Everything that I am letting myself be taken advantage of as a consumer - such that I should view the price of $49.95 at the shop down the street from my home as being 173% of the normal price (one might use the term "rip off" to refer to a price that much higher than whatever is considered normal)?
Because if that isn't what you are saying, and I should still be considering the $28.84 as being a good deal, but also be considering $49.95 to be the full/normal price, I fail to see what practical difference there is in whether or not I consider what is literally a sale to be practically a sale too. In fact, it seems that if I were to consider the $28.84 as the "normal" price instead of a sale, I would risk myself becoming upset should the price go up to $36.54 (the current Amazon price for the Player's Handbook) because that is then a price I would have to consider as "higher than normal" to not be wildly inconsistent in my consideration of what is a "normal" and what is a "sale."
SirOccam said it well enough but I think you're missing my point a little bit. I think it's fine to see $50 as the 'normal' price of the book. However, I would also consider $30 to be the normal price. I can only find it for $30 online though, and I have to wait for it to be delivered, and as a person that cares about the hobby scene, I know that I'm not supporting my LGS by buying online. So in reality there are two 'normal' prices, each with different pros and cons.
But there's a broader point here about the relationship between a company and its consumers. Capitalism is cooperative, but it's also inherently antagonistic. Businesses don't just want to make money, they are designed to make the absolute most amount of money possible. This is done by cutting costs and improving product quality, yes, but it's also done by manipulating consumers, which is the whole reason marketing exists. The idea that a perpetual decrease in price could be considered a sale is manipulative. Especially the way it's presented on Amazon- with the base price crossed out and the 'sale price' listed. People like the idea that their money is going further, so the idea of a deal is enticing. It's why department stores perpetually mark their inventory at something like 80% to 90% off.
If you aren't at the very least suspicious of companies, you're going to get taken advantage of when they essentially trick you. Just look at another aspect of Beyond- the piecemeal sale of content. $3 for a race, but $6 for all Player's Handbook races. Why is the former even an option? It's a trick. It makes you think that a single race is worth $3, which makes a bundle of a bunch of races for $6 suuuch a good deal.
If you aren't at the very least suspicious of companies, you're going to get taken advantage of when they essentially trick you. Just look at another aspect of Beyond- the piecemeal sale of content. $3 for a race, but $6 for all Player's Handbook races. Why is the former even an option? It's a trick. It makes you think that a single race is worth $3, which makes a bundle of a bunch of races for $6 suuuch a good deal.
Honestly, This is the one point i cannot argue against you with. I understand the piecemeal part and micro transactions for those that don't want it all (or need the whole book). Yet, I cannot just go in and tell my FLGS i only want this part of the physical book today and I will come back and get the rest later. I have to buy the whole book. So how does the licensing work here when i only purchase the one race so I can build out my character instead of buying the whole book? Granted, I do believe it is the best deal to buy the whole book rather than piece meal, but at least they are reducing the cost of the whole instead of saying "Sorry, you now have to pay the full price for the book since you didn't get it all to begin with." At least you reach a point where it is cheaper to buy the whole book instead of "one more piece". Perhaps that cost is showing what they decide to charge out and make extra money on if you only want the one race. or Enticement to just buy more/save more. I see it all the time on Monoprice and other stores to buy in quantity is cheaper than singles (yes, i know the argument that it is digital and not a physical product).
If you aren't at the very least suspicious of companies, you're going to get taken advantage of when they essentially trick you. Just look at another aspect of Beyond- the piecemeal sale of content. $3 for a race, but $6 for all Player's Handbook races. Why is the former even an option? It's a trick. It makes you think that a single race is worth $3, which makes a bundle of a bunch of races for $6 suuuch a good deal.
Honestly, This is the one point i cannot argue against you with. I understand the piecemeal part and micro transactions for those that don't want it all (or need the whole book). Yet, I cannot just go in and tell my FLGS i only want this part of the physical book today and I will come back and get the rest later. I have to buy the whole book. So how does the licensing work here when i only purchase the one race so I can build out my character instead of buying the whole book? Granted, I do believe it is the best deal to buy the whole book rather than piece meal, but at least they are reducing the cost of the whole instead of saying "Sorry, you now have to pay the full price for the book since you didn't get it all to begin with." At least you reach a point where it is cheaper to buy the whole book instead of "one more piece". Perhaps that cost is showing what they decide to charge out and make extra money on if you only want the one race. or Enticement to just buy more/save more. I see it all the time on Monoprice and other stores to buy in quantity is cheaper than singles (yes, i know the argument that it is digital and not a physical product).
Because buying the content here is qualitatively different than buying a physical book. While we can argue about whether the pricing of piecemeal content is fair or not, it is ultimately a benefit of DDB that you are able to buy things separately if you wish. That it's "cheaper" to buy the whole book doesn't really factor in if you know you are not going to need the rest of that content. You are paying $3 (or whatever) so you don't have to pay $30 (or whatever) for one thing you do want and a bunch of things you don't, and won't use. To that person, that'd the better deal by far, even if we don't understand it, because if you were to buy *everything* piecemeal it'd be horrendously expensive. That's not the point, because no one is buying *everything* piecemeal. That option doesn't exist for the people who want everything, nor is it there to make $30 look like a better deal. It's specifically there for the people who only want the one thing.
Put another way, imagine you go on DMs Guild and there is a cool class option you really want to buy. It's $3. You see it's also bundled with a bunch of other class options that you don't care about at all, for $30. You're not getting ripped off buying the $3 thing because that's all you need or want; buying the whole bundle would be a waste of $27.
If you aren't at the very least suspicious of companies, you're going to get taken advantage of when they essentially trick you. Just look at another aspect of Beyond- the piecemeal sale of content. $3 for a race, but $6 for all Player's Handbook races. Why is the former even an option? It's a trick. It makes you think that a single race is worth $3, which makes a bundle of a bunch of races for $6 suuuch a good deal.
Honestly, This is the one point i cannot argue against you with. I understand the piecemeal part and micro transactions for those that don't want it all (or need the whole book). Yet, I cannot just go in and tell my FLGS i only want this part of the physical book today and I will come back and get the rest later. I have to buy the whole book. So how does the licensing work here when i only purchase the one race so I can build out my character instead of buying the whole book? Granted, I do believe it is the best deal to buy the whole book rather than piece meal, but at least they are reducing the cost of the whole instead of saying "Sorry, you now have to pay the full price for the book since you didn't get it all to begin with." At least you reach a point where it is cheaper to buy the whole book instead of "one more piece". Perhaps that cost is showing what they decide to charge out and make extra money on if you only want the one race. or Enticement to just buy more/save more. I see it all the time on Monoprice and other stores to buy in quantity is cheaper than singles (yes, i know the argument that it is digital and not a physical product).
I'm confused, are you saying you agree with me?
I will say, the whole 'whatever you spend, you subtract from the bundle price' thing is great. I've had buyer's remorse before from buying the basic edition of something and then realizing I should've gotten the deluxe edition if I wanted all the cool stuff, but now I need to buy the entire deluxe edition.
The piecemeal part itself isn't what I'm taking issue with here. It's the strategic use of prices to convince you, the consumer, to just go all-in. You bought a race. Well, now you might as well buy all the PHB races. You bought those races. Well, now you might as well buy the whole book. Etc. And, honestly, it's not that bad, it's just an example of how companies try to manipulate their consumers.
But yeah, as long as we're talking about it, the fact that it's digital makes an enormous difference. You can't really break up a physical product so easily in the same way, without incurring a lot of extra cost and having to deal with the logistics of different demand on different components. The whole buying-in-bulk thing is also a result of economics of scale. Shipping a thousand units is cheaper (per unit) than shipping one, and the saving gets passed onto the consumer. This is why up until Amazon, it wasn't meaningfully cheaper to buy online- you had to eat the cost of shipping. In this case, though, buying one race versus the whole book means flipping one boolean flag instead of another. Now, there is something to be said about transaction fees, but that could be better mitigated by something like, spend $5, get 500 D&D points or whatever, and then use them to unlock whatever you want. (In a world where a race is only, like, 50 points or something.)
Any chance Campaign Sharing be changed up a bit? Right now it's share with 3 campaigns 12 characters each. Could you do X campaigns covering up to 36 characters?
The math is the same, 36 characters. But then I could say have a campaigns that have say 5 groups with 4 ,6, 8, 8, and 10 characters in them (including myself 5 times)?
The reason I ask is because I feel like I'm living in the Golden Age of D&D. For 20+ years (before going online) I DM'd one group that I played with locally (great people). But since D&D Beyond came out and tools like Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds. I'm not only DM'ing my group using digital tools, but have had the pleasure to join a number of other groups as well.
One straight forward way to manage it would be at the time of sharing the Master Subber puts in how many character slots are allocated to the share. Then has the ability to change that number later on as needed (as people join/leave the campaign). For existing Master Subber the new option shows the 3 campaigns with a default allocation of 12 character slots per running campaign as a baseline
D&D Beyond has made it so much easier to get into the game. Heck I'd buy additional campaign slots on a subscription basis if that works for you guys. But I figure you came at the 3 campaigns and 12 per campaign number after some sort of fancy math :) when it comes to the Master Sub model.
Of course I want it to be fair for Curse and WotC. But please please find a way to accommodate this request fairly.
Thanks,
Envaris
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Any chance Campaign Sharing be changed up a bit? Right now it's share with 3 campaigns 12 characters each. Could you do X campaigns covering up to 36 characters?
The math is the same, 36 characters. But then I could say have a campaigns that have say 5 groups with 4 ,6, 8, 8, and 10 characters in them (including myself 5 times)?
I may be wrong, but if a person (could also be a second account from you) from your 4th campaign has a master tier subscription and enable the content sharing your content will be shared with everybody on the campaign. So you would need an extra master tier sub for every 3 campaigns you need to share. Can mods confirm this?
Any chance Campaign Sharing be changed up a bit? Right now it's share with 3 campaigns 12 characters each. Could you do X campaigns covering up to 36 characters?
The math is the same, 36 characters. But then I could say have a campaigns that have say 5 groups with 4 ,6, 8, 8, and 10 characters in them (including myself 5 times)?
I may be wrong, but if a person (could also be a second account from you) from your 4th campaign has a master tier subscription and enable the content sharing your content will be shared with everybody on the campaign. So you would need an extra master tier sub for every 3 campaigns you need to share. Can mods confirm this?
You are correct. :) Multiple master tier subscriptions with one legendary bundle will share a campaign multiple times.
1 Legendary bundle joins six or more campaigns. 1 Master tier shares to three campaigns 1 Master tier shares to three other campaigns. Repeat....
I have a Legendary Bundle already. I went to subscriptions so I could add another Master Sub. It wasn't allowed. Under a single account I can't seem to have to Legendary Bunder and 2 Master Subs.
Are you saying if I created a second D&D Beyond account with only a Master Sub (no content bundles), created a campaign, invited my first account (and other players) enabled sharing from 2nd account that content accessible from Legendary bundle from my first account would flow over to the all players?
Thanks,
Envaris
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
I have a Legendary Bundle already. I went to subscriptions so I could add another Master Sub. It wasn't allowed. Under a single account I can't seem to have to Legendary Bunder and 2 Master Subs.
Are you saying if I created a second D&D Beyond account with only a Master Sub (no content bundles), created a campaign, invited my first account (and other players) enabled sharing from 2nd account that content accessible from Legendary bundle from my first account would flow over to the all players?
But that's literally what all price points are, for every item, for every retailer. I can get a box of cereal for $2.49 at one grocery store, or the exact same box for $3.49 at another grocery store. That doesn't make the first one "on sale." Both companies have made decisions on what to charge for that item based on any number of factors, including how much smaller of a profit margin they're willing to bear. And they are both free to raise or lower those prices in order to make more sales or increase profit margin per sale. And this happens all the time.
If Amazon is willing and able to charge less for an item, they can do so. They make less profit but get more business (presumably). Their price fluctuates a bit, but again, so do prices for many things, at many retailers. $30(-ish) is just their price point. It's not some amazing bonus we are being granted. If they wanted to charge MSRP, they could.
Now buying used is a whole other debate, but then i usually go with about 1/2 the cover price unless it is rare or OOP (Half Price Books).
*bet you didn't know Wallyworld sells D&D did ya? BTW, the PHB is listed at $36.41. Cheaper than Amazon!
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Except not, thanks to things like MSRP.
Perhaps that cost is showing what they decide to charge out and make extra money on if you only want the one race. or Enticement to just buy more/save more. I see it all the time on Monoprice and other stores to buy in quantity is cheaper than singles (yes, i know the argument that it is digital and not a physical product).
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Pretty much everything is cheaper if you buy in bulk. It's cheaper to buy a 12-pack of sodas than it is to buy 12 sodas individually.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Any plans in the future to perhaps link in purchases to include a physical book?
E.g.(Prices are a GUESS I do not know what would be a realistic price)
PHB "Digital content only - 29.99" + "Incl. Physical book send to you 49.99"
So the total price is 49.99 IF you want a physical book with your content access.
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Hi,
Any chance Campaign Sharing be changed up a bit? Right now it's share with 3 campaigns 12 characters each. Could you do X campaigns covering up to 36 characters?
The math is the same, 36 characters. But then I could say have a campaigns that have say 5 groups with 4 ,6, 8, 8, and 10 characters in them (including myself 5 times)?
The reason I ask is because I feel like I'm living in the Golden Age of D&D. For 20+ years (before going online) I DM'd one group that I played with locally (great people). But since D&D Beyond came out and tools like Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds. I'm not only DM'ing my group using digital tools, but have had the pleasure to join a number of other groups as well.
One straight forward way to manage it would be at the time of sharing the Master Subber puts in how many character slots are allocated to the share. Then has the ability to change that number later on as needed (as people join/leave the campaign). For existing Master Subber the new option shows the 3 campaigns with a default allocation of 12 character slots per running campaign as a baseline
D&D Beyond has made it so much easier to get into the game. Heck I'd buy additional campaign slots on a subscription basis if that works for you guys. But I figure you came at the 3 campaigns and 12 per campaign number after some sort of fancy math :) when it comes to the Master Sub model.
Of course I want it to be fair for Curse and WotC. But please please find a way to accommodate this request fairly.
Thanks,
Envaris
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
And I cast Heroism on the community.
1 Master tier shares to three campaigns
1 Master tier shares to three other campaigns.
Repeat....
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And I cast Heroism on the community.
The new critical roll gave me $10 off my PHB! So, I got my PHB for 33% off Only $19.99! Whoo hoo!
Hi,
I have a Legendary Bundle already. I went to subscriptions so I could add another Master Sub. It wasn't allowed. Under a single account I can't seem to have to Legendary Bunder and 2 Master Subs.
Are you saying if I created a second D&D Beyond account with only a Master Sub (no content bundles), created a campaign, invited my first account (and other players) enabled sharing from 2nd account that content accessible from Legendary bundle from my first account would flow over to the all players?
Thanks,
Envaris
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
When 'Content Sharing' is enabled in a campaign, any content unlocked by any player in the campaign will be shared.
Yes, if one ONLY had a Master subscription and enabled 'Content Sharing', a Legendary Bundle player's content would be shared to the group.
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Send me a message with any questions or concerns
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