Have to 100% agree with OP. took me a bit, but once i understood that dndbeyond was by curse and not WOTC, then it clicked. Granted it is affiliated with Twitch and Amazon in some fasion, i think it will be here to stay if it can be done right. I am just waiting for them to release a Windows offline app that i can use on my laptop and surface, then i am in all the way. I will still buy the physical copies so my book self doesn't get lonely, but that would be more of a collector pov.
Before i hear all about the offline "mobile" app that is "coming soon" again, sorry, i don't think i can run a campaign off my phone, so that is not a resolution to the problem.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Cee, I am pretty sure that Badeye (Adam - the lead designer) said in a recent Q&A that there will be no Windows app. iOS and Android only afaik.
That said, if you wanted to have offline access to the DDB rules there is always OneNote.
How?
There is someone that has a onenote file containing the srd and basic rules only, I believe someone could edit those swo they would have their own copy. But myself I would just download the Windows program that allows you to run an android app on windows.
Why not have an option available for those of us who have purchased the source books +$400 worth of information to have access to them here. There has to be a unique way to verify that information so that us players and DM,s who support the work of WOTC and the activity we love. Maybe a randomized this passage from this page or something that will prove that the book has been purchased. Just saying this would make things way more user friendly.
Why not have an option available for those of us who have purchased the source books +$400 worth of information to have access to them here. There has to be a unique way to verify that information so that us players and DM,s who support the work of WOTC and the activity we love. Maybe a randomized this passage from this page or something that will prove that the book has been purchased. Just saying this would make things way more user friendly.
There is no unique identifier currently in the physical books. Even the test you suggest in this post would only prove that you have access to a book, not that you actually paid for it - so an entire group could pretend they each bought the physical book when the reality is that only one of them did, and there would be literally no way for that deception to be discovered beyond their admitting of having done it.
Also, "get your service for free" is not a thing that affects whether or not a service/software is "user friendly". That term is entirely about how easy it is to use a service/software once you actually have it.
Why not have an option available for those of us who have purchased the source books +$400 worth of information to have access to them here. There has to be a unique way to verify that information so that us players and DM,s who support the work of WOTC and the activity we love. Maybe a randomized this passage from this page or something that will prove that the book has been purchased. Just saying this would make things way more user friendly.
That_Q_Guy: I recommend you start this thread from the beginning instead of jumping in at the end to say something that has already been said (multiple times) and addressed.
D&D Beyond is NOT owned by WotC. D&D Beyond is made by Curse, which is owned by Twitch, which is owned by Amazon.
D&D Beyond is a completely different product that took a great deal of time and investment to build.
You cannot and will not get a DDB discount for owning the physical books because they are from different companies.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Why not have an option available for those of us who have purchased the source books +$400 worth of information to have access to them here. There has to be a unique way to verify that information so that us players and DM,s who support the work of WOTC and the activity we love. Maybe a randomized this passage from this page or something that will prove that the book has been purchased. Just saying this would make things way more user friendly.
Amazon won't give you a free Kindle copy of a book just because you bought the physical version at Dymocks. Why should Curse give you the online version for free just because you bought the physical books at your FLGS?
On another thread I wrote about the advantages of buying Xanathar's Guide from DDB living outside USA (both monetary and the time to have access to a new book). Since this thread is about physical x digital, I thought it would be useful to add the experience I had related to DDB.
The first time I got into DDB was when it was announced the pricing info. And to be honest my first impression was kind of the same of all the people we see here talking about paying again. Thar because by the time DDB was out I had all the books (now missing only XGTE). But since I DM using a laptop I decided to give a try on the free content of the site, and it was amazing! I could find any info I wanted really fast, even about monsters. Specially considering I am not an experienced DM searching on the pile of books (and even on pdfs) always took precious time on the heat of the moment. Even having all the spellcards from GF9 or printing monster stat blocks (sometimes you have to improvise an npc as a cultist or veteran that is not printed).
And then it started, I bought the PH, some parts of SCAG and one month of master tier subscription to share with my players. All that was needed for the already existing characters of them. Again I was surprised with the results. The next session even the novice players were specialists of their online sheets on their cellphones, tablets or laptops. Not one spell description, class feature, racial trait was hard to reach for them and that made things so much easier for me.
At that point I became a fan of DDB. Enough to reserve a time from a Friday to watch live September's developer update stream. And boy that really inspired me. As a programmer it is not uncommon on my free time make tools/addons/apps/programs/sites to my current hobby, so why not do something to use with DDB? And so I did a small chrome extension to track monsters hp. That led me to buy the MM, and the monsters parts of some adventures we DM here. Well I needed the monsters to use my own extension. Didn't I?
Needless to say that it escalated quickly with the pre-order of XTGE, DMG to use magic items, VGtE for more character options and monsters. Every bit helped to finally reach the famous legendary bundle on cyber Monday. Every one would think: yeah now you have all the rules, all the options, no more surprises.
Well, that was wrong. Last weekend It was the first time I prepared the session using DDB for one of the published adventures. And after reading our thread about Campaign Management where so many people say it is non existent on DDB (there are only three text areas, they say) I thought it wouldn't help me much until I used it. There is so much power on the richtexts right now, on my preparations I could add all the tooltips, images, links to every part needed. It took me less than a half the time and the result was more than 10 times better.
For me this is the real physical x digital, not all the analogies we use here to justify paying for DDB. On my experience it is not at all paying again. So if You have this impression and that WOTC is ripping apart your wallet with DDB, maybe you just need some time to try it. I will still buy all the books, They are beautiful, look amazing on my shelf and I love to collect them. But when preparing my sessions, searching for rules during them or during the short time on bed before sleep I will stick with DDB.
Sorry for the long post.
PS.: I am not an experienced DM, and I cannot compare DDB with roll20 or fantasy grounds.
The simple answer to this whole mess is all about money really...
Why would wotc lose money on books they sell because you bought on beyond ? Why would curse lose money because you bought physical copies from wotc. Thats really just that. Not that it cant be done because it can be done. But really reguardless of how they'd do it one of the company is gonna lose money out of it.
So it leads to the real question...
If it was you working hard on a software... Would you be willing to lose any payments to your hard worked hours just for enjoyment of millions of players ?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
You are right, it does boil down to money, but it's not as simple as your making it sound.
They are multiple different companies that or paying WOTC for the ability to host the information. So yeah, the probably could come up with a way to be like, look you have the book on this service will give it to you for free here, however, then the people working on this project have no way of making money.
Sorry, you make a service, you find a way to make money off it, it's not something you can fault a company for.
With all the college-aged folk here, I'm shocked that no one has made the comparison to digital textbooks. When I went to school, it was laughable to expect to receive a free PDF because you bought the physical book. You either chose physical or digital, as they were licensed through different vendors. Textbooks.com didn't care about what I bought at the college bookstore.
Why this suddenly becomes different when concerning D&D is beyond me.
All of my Textbooks came with a digital version. I did only spend 2 and half years in college though. But they did all come with a digital version. I did have to usually download some weird app to use them, but I did get them.
Just for clarification, I am on D&D Beyond's side here. I understand why the system is the way it is.
You are right, it does boil down to money, but it's not as simple as your making it sound.
They are multiple different companies that or paying WOTC for the ability to host the information. So yeah, the probably could come up with a way to be like, look you have the book on this service will give it to you for free here, however, then the people working on this project have no way of making money.
Sorry, you make a service, you find a way to make money off it, it's not something you can fault a company for.
and what you just said, is literally exactly what i just said. so i fail to see why you think its not that simple ? anyway, i don't care for physical books anymore. though i would love to help my LGS, i just preffer to not have thousands of books in one single suitcase that i have trouble lifting up on my shoulder. in today's age i'm already impress that we still have physical copies to begin with.
Sedge, haven't done college, but i have a few friends who did, they got both physical and digital for the same price of one. so i guess you were just in agreedy school or a school with problems when it came to money, which is still not rare though. so its totally understandable. It probably also depends on the country you are in. me and my friends are in canada.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
The simple answer to this whole mess is all about money really...
Why would wotc lose money on books they sell because you bought on beyond ? Why would curse lose money because you bought physical copies from wotc. Thats really just that. Not that it cant be done because it can be done. But really reguardless of how they'd do it one of the company is gonna lose money out of it.
So it leads to the real question...
If it was you working hard on a software... Would you be willing to lose any payments to your hard worked hours just for enjoyment of millions of players ?
Money is the root of all evil, or Vecna, i forget which it is...
WOTC won't lose a dime whichever way you purchase. they published the book and sold it to the vendors (you can't buy directly from WOTC). They already have their cut. the only way they lose money is if they over publish and the retailers don't buy it. They won't lose on digital as the retail (DNDBeyond in this case) has to pay a license fee for each copy sold. WOTC doesn't care one bit as long as you buy it.
Who does lose is the retailers if you buy digital. that would be the FLGS, Walmart, Amazon, etc. They buy the physical copies from WOTC, mark them up a bit (except maybe Amazon and Walmart) and then pass it on to you the consumer. They lose when they purchase too many and then you don't buy them because you went digital.
Of course if you purchased physical and want digital content free, then Curse would lose out because they have to pay the license fee and a bit of mark up for themselves. They can only run a sale with WOTC approval, i would assume to lower that license fee (you know what they say when you assume though). Otherwise they couldn't care less if you purchased the physical as they will not give you any credit for doing so. So the double payment plan comes into play.
And yes, if i was Curse (and presumably Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds) I would want to get paid so no free rides. Give it another 5 years of development and I would start to think that the physical books will be just a collectors items and we will all be digital if this works out. Heck, between DDB and DMSGuild/DriveThru, you could practically be all digital now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Actually Wotc would lose money if you think about it, while they don't sell to consumers, if consumers only buy the digital copy, then the whole prints they did will go to waste.
Which actually solves one other question everyone has been wondering about for a while.
why is wotc not going digital like everyone else. the answer is, they do, this is why roll20 and fantasy ground have got their liscenses to begin with. same with DDB. so i really wonder why people don't see this one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
All of my Textbooks came with a digital version. I did only spend 2 and half years in college though. But they did all come with a digital version. I did have to usually download some weird app to use them, but I did get them.
Just for clarification, I am on D&D Beyond's side here. I understand why the system is the way it is.
Actually Wotc would lose money if you think about it, while they don't sell to consumers, if consumers only buy the digital copy, then the whole prints they did will go to waste.
Which actually solves one other question everyone has been wondering about for a while.
why is wotc not going digital like everyone else. the answer is, they do, this is why roll20 and fantasy ground have got their liscenses to begin with. same with DDB. so i really wonder why people don't see this one.
Which is what i stated in my 2nd paragraph. However I did say over publish, which i guess is the same difference as just publishing and no one buying. However, there will always be those, like myself, who want the physical version to put on the bookshelf if for nothing else than to have it sit there as a collectible item.
I don't get it either, but you're right, they have, just not how everyone has expected and it is throwing people for a loop. I think the expectation was they were going to make a digital copy of the book in a searchable pdf and include it with the physical version. That is not happening, so i guess that could be why everyone shows up complaining that they should be getting it for reduced (which it is, just not as reduced as they want), or free.
What hasn't helped was that there was talk of another digital version, but it was going to be more kindle like and still not a PDF. as i recall, it was just the books themselves, but you could take them offline.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
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Have to 100% agree with OP. took me a bit, but once i understood that dndbeyond was by curse and not WOTC, then it clicked. Granted it is affiliated with Twitch and Amazon in some fasion, i think it will be here to stay if it can be done right. I am just waiting for them to release a Windows offline app that i can use on my laptop and surface, then i am in all the way. I will still buy the physical copies so my book self doesn't get lonely, but that would be more of a collector pov.
Before i hear all about the offline "mobile" app that is "coming soon" again, sorry, i don't think i can run a campaign off my phone, so that is not a resolution to the problem.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Cee, I am pretty sure that Badeye (Adam - the lead designer) said in a recent Q&A that there will be no Windows app. iOS and Android only afaik.
That said, if you wanted to have offline access to the DDB rules there is always OneNote.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
There is an application for Windows call Bluestacks that allows you to run Android apps on Windows. I believe that is what Jacqsynn is referring to.
There is also this OneNote SRD: http://www.cryrid.com/dnd/?page_id=153
There is a lot you can do with OneNote.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Why not have an option available for those of us who have purchased the source books +$400 worth of information to have access to them here. There has to be a unique way to verify that information so that us players and DM,s who support the work of WOTC and the activity we love. Maybe a randomized this passage from this page or something that will prove that the book has been purchased. Just saying this would make things way more user friendly.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
On another thread I wrote about the advantages of buying Xanathar's Guide from DDB living outside USA (both monetary and the time to have access to a new book). Since this thread is about physical x digital, I thought it would be useful to add the experience I had related to DDB.
The first time I got into DDB was when it was announced the pricing info. And to be honest my first impression was kind of the same of all the people we see here talking about paying again. Thar because by the time DDB was out I had all the books (now missing only XGTE). But since I DM using a laptop I decided to give a try on the free content of the site, and it was amazing! I could find any info I wanted really fast, even about monsters. Specially considering I am not an experienced DM searching on the pile of books (
and even on pdfs) always took precious time on the heat of the moment. Even having all the spellcards from GF9 or printing monster stat blocks (sometimes you have to improvise an npc as a cultist or veteran that is not printed).And then it started, I bought the PH, some parts of SCAG and one month of master tier subscription to share with my players. All that was needed for the already existing characters of them. Again I was surprised with the results. The next session even the novice players were specialists of their online sheets on their cellphones, tablets or laptops. Not one spell description, class feature, racial trait was hard to reach for them and that made things so much easier for me.
At that point I became a fan of DDB. Enough to reserve a time from a Friday to watch live September's developer update stream. And boy that really inspired me. As a programmer it is not uncommon on my free time make tools/addons/apps/programs/sites to my current hobby, so why not do something to use with DDB? And so I did a small chrome extension to track monsters hp. That led me to buy the MM, and the monsters parts of some adventures we DM here. Well I needed the monsters to use my own extension. Didn't I?
Needless to say that it escalated quickly with the pre-order of XTGE, DMG to use magic items, VGtE for more character options and monsters. Every bit helped to finally reach the famous legendary bundle on cyber Monday. Every one would think: yeah now you have all the rules, all the options, no more surprises.
Well, that was wrong. Last weekend It was the first time I prepared the session using DDB for one of the published adventures. And after reading our thread about Campaign Management where so many people say it is non existent on DDB (there are only three text areas, they say) I thought it wouldn't help me much until I used it. There is so much power on the richtexts right now, on my preparations I could add all the tooltips, images, links to every part needed. It took me less than a half the time and the result was more than 10 times better.
For me this is the real physical x digital, not all the analogies we use here to justify paying for DDB. On my experience it is not at all paying again. So if You have this impression and that WOTC is ripping apart your wallet with DDB, maybe you just need some time to try it. I will still buy all the books, They are beautiful, look amazing on my shelf and I love to collect them. But when preparing my sessions, searching for rules during them or during the short time on bed before sleep I will stick with DDB.
Sorry for the long post.
PS.: I am not an experienced DM, and I cannot compare DDB with roll20 or fantasy grounds.
And I cast Heroism on the community.
The simple answer to this whole mess is all about money really...
Why would wotc lose money on books they sell because you bought on beyond ? Why would curse lose money because you bought physical copies from wotc. Thats really just that. Not that it cant be done because it can be done. But really reguardless of how they'd do it one of the company is gonna lose money out of it.
So it leads to the real question...
If it was you working hard on a software... Would you be willing to lose any payments to your hard worked hours just for enjoyment of millions of players ?
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
You are right, it does boil down to money, but it's not as simple as your making it sound.
They are multiple different companies that or paying WOTC for the ability to host the information. So yeah, the probably could come up with a way to be like, look you have the book on this service will give it to you for free here, however, then the people working on this project have no way of making money.
Sorry, you make a service, you find a way to make money off it, it's not something you can fault a company for.
With all the college-aged folk here, I'm shocked that no one has made the comparison to digital textbooks. When I went to school, it was laughable to expect to receive a free PDF because you bought the physical book. You either chose physical or digital, as they were licensed through different vendors. Textbooks.com didn't care about what I bought at the college bookstore.
Why this suddenly becomes different when concerning D&D is beyond me.
[ Site Rules & Guidelines ] --- [ Homebrew Rules & Guidelines ]
Send me a message with any questions or concerns
All of my Textbooks came with a digital version. I did only spend 2 and half years in college though. But they did all come with a digital version. I did have to usually download some weird app to use them, but I did get them.
Just for clarification, I am on D&D Beyond's side here. I understand why the system is the way it is.
anyway, i don't care for physical books anymore. though i would love to help my LGS, i just preffer to not have thousands of books in one single suitcase that i have trouble lifting up on my shoulder. in today's age i'm already impress that we still have physical copies to begin with.
Sedge, haven't done college, but i have a few friends who did, they got both physical and digital for the same price of one. so i guess you were just in agreedy school or a school with problems when it came to money, which is still not rare though. so its totally understandable. It probably also depends on the country you are in. me and my friends are in canada.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Actually Wotc would lose money if you think about it, while they don't sell to consumers, if consumers only buy the digital copy, then the whole prints they did will go to waste.
Which actually solves one other question everyone has been wondering about for a while.
why is wotc not going digital like everyone else. the answer is, they do, this is why roll20 and fantasy ground have got their liscenses to begin with. same with DDB.
so i really wonder why people don't see this one.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.