I have been mentoring a new DM for a few sessions. She has been a player for about 8 months now and is amazing.
Last night she ran into a few issues and we talked about it after the session but it seems to be a common theme. I gave her my take on the problems, but thought I would put out here and see what everyone else’s thought were or what you would do in the situations.
1) When you party hits town and splits up to do shopping etc.. and interact with the locals. She had a hard time with this and got lost in one group and forgot about the other few players. I use a timer on my phone to limit each players time before I move on to the next player and move around the table. What does everyone else suggest that I could pass on?
2) We have a dominate player in the group that seems to take over the play time. Also he is little bit obnoxious and over the top. Prone to being the table top version of Leeroy Jenkins type. His Constance interruptions were becoming a problem. I suggested learning to just cut him off and let others speak. Control the table sort of thing. There comes a point when you just need to tell someone to be silent while the other players do their thing. We sat around the table while he ran off to battle some ruffians against the rest of the parties vote. My advice on this instance was to have him knocked down to zero HP’s next time and looted.
It was rough night for her but she held it together and did an amazing job despite the hiccups.
I wanted to provide her with more than just my opinions.
Thanks
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JT "You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
These are all fairly common problems that DMs face.
All good advice that you've given.
1) The timing here is learned as a skill with experience DMing. Your suggestion of a timer is a good one if your friend is having some trouble. As always, it's best to explain to the group what and why, "Friends, I'm trying to build up experience of how to balance time between players when you're all split up in town etc. I'm going to introduce a (5-minute) timer for such situations, to try to set some pacing - please bear with me while we work out a good pacing between us."
2) This is a management skill and can be tricky to learn how to deal with. The people in the group are usually friends, so a confrontational resolution isn't something you want to go for. Get your friend to google for, "managing disruptive team members" as there are a lot of helpful websites out there that deal with techniques for this in the workplace and it's the same skill set that extends to DMing a D&D session.
These are all fairly common problems that DMs face.
All good advice that you've given.
1) The timing here is learned as a skill with experience DMing. Your suggestion of a timer is a good one if your friend is having some trouble. As always, it's best to explain to the group what and why, "Friends, I'm trying to build up experience of how to balance time between players when you're all split up in town etc. I'm going to introduce a (5-minute) timer for such situations, to try to set some pacing - please bear with me while we work out a good pacing between us."
2) This is a management skill and can be tricky to learn how to deal with. The people in the group are usually friends, so a confrontational resolution isn't something you want to go for. Get your friend to google for, "managing disruptive team members" as there are a lot of helpful websites out there that deal with techniques for this in the workplace and it's the same skill set that extends to DMing a D&D session.
Thank you.
I never thought of looking up disruptive team members, that's solid advice.
I have very similar concerns with the groups I DM for. None of us have played before, or it's been years, so they elected me to be the DM, having literally zero experience but decent story telling...skills? That was 6 months ago and I've learned to handle things, I think. I currently have two players who use game time to have a battle of wills at the expense of the rest of the group. PlayerA: "Lets ask the guard for directions." Player B:"I stab him." ... meanwhile everyone else screams "WHY!?" ...that sort of rivalry and disruption. Here's what I've tried out, and I will be following this thread to get more advice as well!
1) For groups splitting, I cut off the interaction when it's time for them to make a choice or need to process their options. So, that could be "the shop has these types of weapons" I hand them a printout shop list and move to the next group. Or , it could be an NPC asks a tricky question or offers a piece of new information. I simply state 'I'll let you think on that while we see what (other character) is doing." But, I have also used a sand timer and have each person pass it to the next once it runs out. They got tired of doing that and only split when needed now...
2) If players are doing stuff that really makes no sense or is obviously disruptive, I ask them to explain why their character chose to do that. Often, they will not be able to explain it reasonably and I tell them to do something that they can explain in character. In my game, we've decided that there actually is a character that all the other characters would hate. The party chose to abandon him at the next city and the player is making a new character to fill the gap left. We turned it into a mission to recruit and test a new group member. But out of game I also talked to the players and let them know that if this change still gets in the way of everyone else's fun, they should decide which of them will join another game. I run two separate games so this wasn't as confrontational as it sounds.
I am looking forward to everyone else's advice, since i think this is common with newer DM's playing with a friend group.
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Experience: 5e Only - Playing, DM, world building.
DM for Home-brew campaign based on Forgotten Realms lore. 5 player. Also play in party of 8.
I've found that there is no one rule and that every group is different as well as the individual players. I like the approach of leaving the player behind.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
JT "You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
In response to #1, switch between groups at logical points. So if one group is looking for x item and the other group Y item, have them both make their checks. Once you start roleplaying I'd suggest finishing the "scene" before moving on. If it's going to take a while let group one gave a 15 minute break then let group 2 have a 15 min break. However, after each scene move on to the next group.
#2 If he wants to run off and attack some monsters by himself.... Let the outcome be the outcome. If he gets unconscious, he dies and gets looted and has to start with a new character (a level or so behind everyone). Thugs probably aren't going to let him live at that point. If he wins the fight, he wins, but hopefully it will be close enough he re-thinks it next time.
The easy way to handle with the guard getting stabbed is they now have to search for information. Grant the guards advantage on locating the players as it's nearly impossible to be PCs and looking for information and hiding in town. Witnesses and all.
1) Tell her to watch Chris Perkins DM for Acquisitions Inc and Dice Camera Action games. They often split off into different groups and he cliffhangers each time perfectly (though he is god as far as DMing goes, so any emulation of him is generally a good thing).
2) If you are the normal DM for this group and deal with this guy on a regular basis, maybe take the time to talk to him yourself. It's harder for a new DM to have the "quit being a ******" conversation, but it's much easier for an old timer like myself (granted, I generally don't come out and say "quit being a ******", unless it's a friend of mine doing it). Just tell him that the rest of the group needs to be included in the game and that he will get his time to shine. If that's not something he's willing to deal with, then be a little more stern. If he's STILL a problem after the second time, then he doesn't need to be in the group.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I'd suggest she watches Matt colville's YouTube video titled "Time, running the game #31". It's about 6 minutes long but it deals with the issue of one player doing something contrary to what another wants. Just because one player wants to pull a Leroy Jenkins doesn't mean she can't moderate it to give the other players a chance to react.
When the party splits, I tend to give each group half-an-hour apiece to resolve their current action. I usually dub them "Team A" and "Team B" or something similar, then resolve to finish each scene, and people go take breaks or whatever if they're "off camera." If one player is being disruptive (in terms of hogging the spotlight), I tend to just tell them point-blank, "Hey, calm down. Let the other people at the table take a turn." We're all adults. If they can't handle a little constructive criticism delivered politely, I don't game with them. This has been my working method for "splitting the party" for almost 20 years, and it's never failed me.
With regard to your second point of advice, I don't recommend "dropping to 0 h.p. and looted" as a fix. Don't ever kill a PC off-camera, or have them get looted, because they're being disruptive at the table but you don't want to have an adult conversation player-to-player. It won't fix anything; in fact, it's likely to cause drama and deepen the rift between you and the other folks at the table. Using the game to passive-aggressively snipe at your players is just being petty. Rise above it.
My primary reason for getting killed and looted, is because the player chose to enter combat knowing the party wasn't going to back him up. I'm just the kind of guy that if I say there are three trolls and the party decides to sneak away from them, but you decide to attack them yourself, the cards will lie where they will. If you beat the three trolls, brovo. If the three trolls kill you because you can't possibly take on three trolls by yourself, then they kill you.
If it was a situation where the person didn't have all the facts, etc. then I might be a bit more forgiving. Especially if he was roleplaying in character or something to that effect. (Such a Paladin rushing in to save a villager that the party decided to let die, from a hoard of undead, then I'd be more likely to fudge somethings to help the player out.)
Yeah, if he goes off to fight things he can't possibly defeat, he should totally get killed. I thought you were advocating for a quick fix. Players dying because they did something dumb is one of the best parts of D&D!
Yeah, if he goes off to fight things he can't possibly defeat, he should totally get killed. I thought you were advocating for a quick fix. Players dying because they did something dumb is one of the best parts of D&D!
To me, both problems have the same root: focusing too much on one player and forgetting the rest. It's a simple fix of just asking the other players what they want to do. So if players go off and start shopping as individuals that's fine, just let them buy their thing and then move on to the other players. If someone rushes in to a battle, then narrate them running in, then ask the other players what the want to do.
Couple of things that are semi related.
I have been mentoring a new DM for a few sessions. She has been a player for about 8 months now and is amazing.
Last night she ran into a few issues and we talked about it after the session but it seems to be a common theme. I gave her my take on the problems, but thought I would put out here and see what everyone else’s thought were or what you would do in the situations.
1) When you party hits town and splits up to do shopping etc.. and interact with the locals. She had a hard time with this and got lost in one group and forgot about the other few players. I use a timer on my phone to limit each players time before I move on to the next player and move around the table. What does everyone else suggest that I could pass on?
2) We have a dominate player in the group that seems to take over the play time. Also he is little bit obnoxious and over the top. Prone to being the table top version of Leeroy Jenkins type. His Constance interruptions were becoming a problem. I suggested learning to just cut him off and let others speak. Control the table sort of thing. There comes a point when you just need to tell someone to be silent while the other players do their thing. We sat around the table while he ran off to battle some ruffians against the rest of the parties vote. My advice on this instance was to have him knocked down to zero HP’s next time and looted.
It was rough night for her but she held it together and did an amazing job despite the hiccups.
I wanted to provide her with more than just my opinions.
Thanks
JT " You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
These are all fairly common problems that DMs face.
All good advice that you've given.
1) The timing here is learned as a skill with experience DMing. Your suggestion of a timer is a good one if your friend is having some trouble. As always, it's best to explain to the group what and why, "Friends, I'm trying to build up experience of how to balance time between players when you're all split up in town etc. I'm going to introduce a (5-minute) timer for such situations, to try to set some pacing - please bear with me while we work out a good pacing between us."
2) This is a management skill and can be tricky to learn how to deal with. The people in the group are usually friends, so a confrontational resolution isn't something you want to go for. Get your friend to google for, "managing disruptive team members" as there are a lot of helpful websites out there that deal with techniques for this in the workplace and it's the same skill set that extends to DMing a D&D session.
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JT " You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
I have very similar concerns with the groups I DM for. None of us have played before, or it's been years, so they elected me to be the DM, having literally zero experience but decent story telling...skills? That was 6 months ago and I've learned to handle things, I think. I currently have two players who use game time to have a battle of wills at the expense of the rest of the group. PlayerA: "Lets ask the guard for directions." Player B:"I stab him." ... meanwhile everyone else screams "WHY!?" ...that sort of rivalry and disruption. Here's what I've tried out, and I will be following this thread to get more advice as well!
1) For groups splitting, I cut off the interaction when it's time for them to make a choice or need to process their options. So, that could be "the shop has these types of weapons" I hand them a printout shop list and move to the next group. Or , it could be an NPC asks a tricky question or offers a piece of new information. I simply state 'I'll let you think on that while we see what (other character) is doing." But, I have also used a sand timer and have each person pass it to the next once it runs out. They got tired of doing that and only split when needed now...
2) If players are doing stuff that really makes no sense or is obviously disruptive, I ask them to explain why their character chose to do that. Often, they will not be able to explain it reasonably and I tell them to do something that they can explain in character. In my game, we've decided that there actually is a character that all the other characters would hate. The party chose to abandon him at the next city and the player is making a new character to fill the gap left. We turned it into a mission to recruit and test a new group member. But out of game I also talked to the players and let them know that if this change still gets in the way of everyone else's fun, they should decide which of them will join another game. I run two separate games so this wasn't as confrontational as it sounds.
I am looking forward to everyone else's advice, since i think this is common with newer DM's playing with a friend group.
Experience: 5e Only - Playing, DM, world building.
DM for Home-brew campaign based on Forgotten Realms lore. 5 player. Also play in party of 8.
Some good examples in there.
I've found that there is no one rule and that every group is different as well as the individual players. I like the approach of leaving the player behind.
JT " You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
In response to #1, switch between groups at logical points. So if one group is looking for x item and the other group Y item, have them both make their checks. Once you start roleplaying I'd suggest finishing the "scene" before moving on. If it's going to take a while let group one gave a 15 minute break then let group 2 have a 15 min break. However, after each scene move on to the next group.
#2 If he wants to run off and attack some monsters by himself.... Let the outcome be the outcome. If he gets unconscious, he dies and gets looted and has to start with a new character (a level or so behind everyone). Thugs probably aren't going to let him live at that point. If he wins the fight, he wins, but hopefully it will be close enough he re-thinks it next time.
The easy way to handle with the guard getting stabbed is they now have to search for information. Grant the guards advantage on locating the players as it's nearly impossible to be PCs and looking for information and hiding in town. Witnesses and all.
1) Tell her to watch Chris Perkins DM for Acquisitions Inc and Dice Camera Action games. They often split off into different groups and he cliffhangers each time perfectly (though he is god as far as DMing goes, so any emulation of him is generally a good thing).
2) If you are the normal DM for this group and deal with this guy on a regular basis, maybe take the time to talk to him yourself. It's harder for a new DM to have the "quit being a ******" conversation, but it's much easier for an old timer like myself (granted, I generally don't come out and say "quit being a ******", unless it's a friend of mine doing it). Just tell him that the rest of the group needs to be included in the game and that he will get his time to shine. If that's not something he's willing to deal with, then be a little more stern. If he's STILL a problem after the second time, then he doesn't need to be in the group.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I'd suggest she watches Matt colville's YouTube video titled "Time, running the game #31". It's about 6 minutes long but it deals with the issue of one player doing something contrary to what another wants. Just because one player wants to pull a Leroy Jenkins doesn't mean she can't moderate it to give the other players a chance to react.
When the party splits, I tend to give each group half-an-hour apiece to resolve their current action. I usually dub them "Team A" and "Team B" or something similar, then resolve to finish each scene, and people go take breaks or whatever if they're "off camera." If one player is being disruptive (in terms of hogging the spotlight), I tend to just tell them point-blank, "Hey, calm down. Let the other people at the table take a turn." We're all adults. If they can't handle a little constructive criticism delivered politely, I don't game with them. This has been my working method for "splitting the party" for almost 20 years, and it's never failed me.
With regard to your second point of advice, I don't recommend "dropping to 0 h.p. and looted" as a fix. Don't ever kill a PC off-camera, or have them get looted, because they're being disruptive at the table but you don't want to have an adult conversation player-to-player. It won't fix anything; in fact, it's likely to cause drama and deepen the rift between you and the other folks at the table. Using the game to passive-aggressively snipe at your players is just being petty. Rise above it.
https://dreadweasel.blogspot.com/
My primary reason for getting killed and looted, is because the player chose to enter combat knowing the party wasn't going to back him up. I'm just the kind of guy that if I say there are three trolls and the party decides to sneak away from them, but you decide to attack them yourself, the cards will lie where they will. If you beat the three trolls, brovo. If the three trolls kill you because you can't possibly take on three trolls by yourself, then they kill you.
If it was a situation where the person didn't have all the facts, etc. then I might be a bit more forgiving. Especially if he was roleplaying in character or something to that effect. (Such a Paladin rushing in to save a villager that the party decided to let die, from a hoard of undead, then I'd be more likely to fudge somethings to help the player out.)
Yeah, if he goes off to fight things he can't possibly defeat, he should totally get killed. I thought you were advocating for a quick fix. Players dying because they did something dumb is one of the best parts of D&D!
https://dreadweasel.blogspot.com/
To me, both problems have the same root: focusing too much on one player and forgetting the rest. It's a simple fix of just asking the other players what they want to do. So if players go off and start shopping as individuals that's fine, just let them buy their thing and then move on to the other players. If someone rushes in to a battle, then narrate them running in, then ask the other players what the want to do.
You're doing a bang up job
Thanks everyone and I've passed this on.
Looks like there will be a starting point of adult conversation first. That was my thinking as well.
Cheers,
JT " You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."