This question's likely been asked before, but what are y'alls thoughts on point buy vs rolling for stats? I've been having my players roll for stats for a long time, but honestly got annoyed with suspiciously high stats and all around god-amongst-men at low levels.
We're doing a Pathfinder Kingmaker campaign right now and I had them do the point buy system (standard fantasy) to try and curb this. Now my players seem capable, but definitely not as overwhelming as before.
Personally I trust all of my players, but the variance in power level and options can make it not fun for longer campaigns. Bad rolls can at least be mitigated a bit with some "lucky" magic items found early. But characters with super high starting stats can outclass even those with average, and most players don't like feeling overpowered no more then they like being underpowered. So I use point buy (or the array in D&D). It guarantees a solid character with both strengths and flaws, and no one has to feel bad about using those strengths fully.
That being said I do like rolling for one shots. Because players are less invested in those games and are more willing to play a "broken" character and just have fun!
Personally I trust all of my players, but the variance in power level and options can make it not fun for longer campaigns. Bad rolls can at least be mitigated a bit with some "lucky" magic items found early. But characters with super high starting stats can outclass even those with average, and most players don't like feeling overpowered no more then they like being underpowered. So I use point buy (or the array in D&D). It guarantees a solid character with both strengths and flaws, and no one has to feel bad about using those strengths fully.
That being said I do like rolling for one shots. Because players are less invested in those games and are more willing to play a "broken" character and just have fun!
Im thinking of doing a rolling thing with some stipulations. Like maybe limits to how many +16 rolls there can be and such... heck maybe ill just tweak the standard array to be a bit higher and lower on the ends....
Personally I trust all of my players, but the variance in power level and options can make it not fun for longer campaigns. Bad rolls can at least be mitigated a bit with some "lucky" magic items found early. But characters with super high starting stats can outclass even those with average, and most players don't like feeling overpowered no more then they like being underpowered. So I use point buy (or the array in D&D). It guarantees a solid character with both strengths and flaws, and no one has to feel bad about using those strengths fully.
That being said I do like rolling for one shots. Because players are less invested in those games and are more willing to play a "broken" character and just have fun!
Im thinking of doing a rolling thing with some stipulations. Like maybe limits to how many +16 rolls there can be and such... heck maybe ill just tweak the standard array to be a bit higher and lower on the ends....
You could raise the number of points available (27 in a normal point buy starting at 8 with each stat or 75 points total, 6×8=48+27=75.) You would have to determine if you wanted to keep all stat buys > than 13 would continue to be 2 points or if you wanted 16 and 17 to be 3 points to buy. I don't recall if the DMG or PHB had the rules regarding such variants but one of them talked about different levels of fantasy (Low, Standard, High and at least one other option) but I don't recall if points above 15 were discussed.
I personally use point-buy simply because I feel like my players get to customize their characters more. Many on my players come up with a backstory first and want to build stats around that. Additionally it mitigates interparty fighting if someone rolls significantly better than another.
You could do a Hybrid system. Roll for stats but have a point buy for any set of stats that don't add up to at least 75 points with 2 points to buy 14+. It would give the excitement of rolling with the consistency of a point buy on the low end. Or just rule that 6 is the lowest possible stat instead of the 3 that would be associated with 3d6 or best 3 of 4d6. This does take away options for roll playing a less than stellar character that is trying to make it as a small fish in a big pond.
The way I normally do it is you role 4 d6, 12 times(drop the lowest, re-roll ones), making two columns, and later get to pick which row you use. Then I swap the highest number for an 18 and the lowest for an 8. It balances and gives a lot of power.
I like this system. Though I don't know what it's called. You have 6 ability scores, and they all start at 13. Then add all your racial bonuses, but hold onto those you can choose yourself. Such as a half elf.
You then simply subtract a few points, and add those to other scores of your choice. Many people will probably say this is too good or boring, at times yes. But it helps at times with the problem of having a guy walk in with 3: 18 / 2: 16 / 1: 12
Example:
Class: Bard Race: Half Elf Str 8 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 11 Wis 13 Cha 18 Stored Points: -5 str -1 int +3 cha -1 int +1 con (Racial) +1 dex (Racial) +4 dex
I like the balance of point buy with the randomness of the die roll. To compromise I started doing a token system.
I have 18 tokens with numbers on them that can range from 1 to 6 simulating a die roll. These tokens total up to whatever amount I choose.
For example if I'm going for a total of 72 points:
Four tokens valued 2 each.
Three tokens valued 3 each.
Four tokens valued 4 each.
Three tokens valued 5 each.
Four tokens valued 6 each.
The player blindly grabs three tokens, totals them up, and writes that number down. Those tokens are set aside and three more tokens are blindly picked. Repeat until all the tokens are used up and you have 6 stat totals.
This way every player has the same total points while also keeping the randomness of the die roll.
I let my player roll always, but because their chars should be heroes and are more special than, lets say a peasent, I rule that if the sum of all their stats isnt 73 or higher(1 more than the Standard), they can reroll. Thought about raising it to 74-75 but that seems overkill.
Didnt found another solution, and pointbuy/standard is too plastic for me.
There is the roll 4w6 and sum that instead of letting the lowest go, but that seems to strong too. Has anyone experience with that?
Give them 2d6+6 on 3-5 of the rolls and the 4d6 drop the lowest on the rest. Or have them roll 2d6+6 on 4 rolls, if they don't have an 18 and/or an 8 give them the ones they are missing and finish rolling however many aren't assigned.
I've never commented on anything in this website, but IMDAJ's token system is the best one I've ever seen. I'm going to utilize this in my games, but with playing cards. Pull those numbers out of a deck and have a player shuffle the set of cards themselves. They draw the cards from my hand. It makes it so everyone can have fun seeing the stats as they get drawn out. Every player is still balanced and on par w/ one another.
EDIT: After testing it out, I'm adding one stipulation. Redraw if there are no stats under 10. A problem w/ this method is you can have overly middling stats. (ex.10,11,12,13,13,13.) By adding the "1 stat under 10 rule." It guarantees the PC will hit high on a core stat while giving the PC flavor for roleplaying.
This question's likely been asked before, but what are y'alls thoughts on point buy vs rolling for stats? I've been having my players roll for stats for a long time, but honestly got annoyed with suspiciously high stats and all around god-amongst-men at low levels.
We're doing a Pathfinder Kingmaker campaign right now and I had them do the point buy system (standard fantasy) to try and curb this. Now my players seem capable, but definitely not as overwhelming as before.
One either trust the players completely with the rolls. Or have everyone roll stats together in the open.
Rolled Stats = randomness to have god players but also garbage players. Can easily be a wide gap in stat levels
Pointbuy = Lower overall stats ((15 the highest)) but everyone has the same thing so no gap in stat levels.
Personally I trust all of my players, but the variance in power level and options can make it not fun for longer campaigns. Bad rolls can at least be mitigated a bit with some "lucky" magic items found early. But characters with super high starting stats can outclass even those with average, and most players don't like feeling overpowered no more then they like being underpowered. So I use point buy (or the array in D&D). It guarantees a solid character with both strengths and flaws, and no one has to feel bad about using those strengths fully.
That being said I do like rolling for one shots. Because players are less invested in those games and are more willing to play a "broken" character and just have fun!
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
Im thinking of doing a rolling thing with some stipulations. Like maybe limits to how many +16 rolls there can be and such... heck maybe ill just tweak the standard array to be a bit higher and lower on the ends....
You could raise the number of points available (27 in a normal point buy starting at 8 with each stat or 75 points total, 6×8=48+27=75.) You would have to determine if you wanted to keep all stat buys > than 13 would continue to be 2 points or if you wanted 16 and 17 to be 3 points to buy. I don't recall if the DMG or PHB had the rules regarding such variants but one of them talked about different levels of fantasy (Low, Standard, High and at least one other option) but I don't recall if points above 15 were discussed.
I personally use point-buy simply because I feel like my players get to customize their characters more. Many on my players come up with a backstory first and want to build stats around that. Additionally it mitigates interparty fighting if someone rolls significantly better than another.
You could do a Hybrid system. Roll for stats but have a point buy for any set of stats that don't add up to at least 75 points with 2 points to buy 14+. It would give the excitement of rolling with the consistency of a point buy on the low end. Or just rule that 6 is the lowest possible stat instead of the 3 that would be associated with 3d6 or best 3 of 4d6. This does take away options for roll playing a less than stellar character that is trying to make it as a small fish in a big pond.
The way I normally do it is you role 4 d6, 12 times(drop the lowest, re-roll ones), making two columns, and later get to pick which row you use. Then I swap the highest number for an 18 and the lowest for an 8. It balances and gives a lot of power.
*deadpan* Oh no, don't do that.
I like this system. Though I don't know what it's called.
You have 6 ability scores, and they all start at 13. Then add all your racial bonuses, but hold onto those you can choose yourself. Such as a half elf.
You then simply subtract a few points, and add those to other scores of your choice. Many people will probably say this is too good or boring, at times yes. But it helps at times with the problem of having a guy walk in with 3: 18 / 2: 16 / 1: 12
Example:
Class: Bard
Race: Half Elf
Str 8
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 11
Wis 13
Cha 18
Stored Points:
-5 str
-1 int
+3 cha
-1 int
+1 con (Racial)
+1 dex (Racial)
+4 dex
I like the balance of point buy with the randomness of the die roll. To compromise I started doing a token system.
I have 18 tokens with numbers on them that can range from 1 to 6 simulating a die roll. These tokens total up to whatever amount I choose.
For example if I'm going for a total of 72 points:
Four tokens valued 2 each.
Three tokens valued 3 each.
Four tokens valued 4 each.
Three tokens valued 5 each.
Four tokens valued 6 each.
The player blindly grabs three tokens, totals them up, and writes that number down. Those tokens are set aside and three more tokens are blindly picked. Repeat until all the tokens are used up and you have 6 stat totals.
This way every player has the same total points while also keeping the randomness of the die roll.
I let my player roll always, but because their chars should be heroes and are more special than, lets say a peasent, I rule that if the sum of all their stats isnt 73 or higher(1 more than the Standard), they can reroll. Thought about raising it to 74-75 but that seems overkill.
Didnt found another solution, and pointbuy/standard is too plastic for me.
There is the roll 4w6 and sum that instead of letting the lowest go, but that seems to strong too. Has anyone experience with that?
Homebrew I share:
Demonic Houndmaster
I just used 2d6+6 so the lowest is 8 highest is still 18. Everyone in my group seemed to like it that way.
Thats actually a good Idea. But i love when player have one bad stat that they can use to roleplay real good.
Homebrew I share:
Demonic Houndmaster
I do too, but i don't want to force that on my players when they don't want it sadly.
Give them 2d6+6 on 3-5 of the rolls and the 4d6 drop the lowest on the rest. Or have them roll 2d6+6 on 4 rolls, if they don't have an 18 and/or an 8 give them the ones they are missing and finish rolling however many aren't assigned.
I've never commented on anything in this website, but IMDAJ's token system is the best one I've ever seen. I'm going to utilize this in my games, but with playing cards. Pull those numbers out of a deck and have a player shuffle the set of cards themselves. They draw the cards from my hand. It makes it so everyone can have fun seeing the stats as they get drawn out. Every player is still balanced and on par w/ one another.
EDIT: After testing it out, I'm adding one stipulation. Redraw if there are no stats under 10. A problem w/ this method is you can have overly middling stats. (ex.10,11,12,13,13,13.) By adding the "1 stat under 10 rule." It guarantees the PC will hit high on a core stat while giving the PC flavor for roleplaying.