So for the longest time in my DnD group, a player will look at the battle map and will say, "I cast the fire ball above his head so the party isn't hit." I've been allowing it for a long time, but I was just wondering if this was allowed or not. Is there some damage reduction? Can a monster take the full damage if the just the edge of the fireball hits it?
Keep in mind though that the fireball is a 20' radius sphere. If the caster wants to put the target completely within the fireball - i.e., the fireball extends to the ground at the center of the targets square ...
... then the fireball will be only 8" from the ground at a distance of 5' from the targeted creature. You will certainly blast any creatures adjacent to the target in this case. At a distance of 10' from the ground zero of the fireball it will still only be 2' 8" from the ground. This should partially engulf a normal medium sized creature though a gnome or halfling might only singe their hair. At 15' from the point where the fireball touched the ground it will be 6'9" up. This should miss most medium sized creatures but large sized creatures would still be at risk. (And of course at a 20' distance it will be 20' up).
The next question is HOW much of the target needs to be within the AoE in order to be affected? The fireball spell indicates only that the target needs to be IN the area of effect so perhaps you could target the spell so it only hits their head? However, if the target is roughly the same height as your adjacent party members and since the difference is only 8" over a 5' distance, I would say that the fireball spell would affect any similar height adjacent creatures.
So, YES it is absolutely allowed to target a fireball at ANY point within range of the spell (you don't even need to be able to see it). However, if you are in melee with the target of the fireball and the target is a comparable height to any melee attackers then I would say any adjacent party members would also be affected. Keep in mind that when in melee creatures are dodging and weaving throughout the turn which would include changes to their height ducking and dodging as part of their normal defense and you yelling "duck" doesn't help since the other party members can't move on your turn.
Keep in mind though that the fireball is a 20' radius sphere. If the caster wants to put the target completely within the fireball - i.e., the fireball extends to the ground at the center of the targets square ...
... then the fireball will be only 8" from the ground at a distance of 5' from the targeted creature. You will certainly blast any creatures adjacent to the target in this case. At a distance of 10' from the ground zero of the fireball it will still only be 2' 8" from the ground. This should partially engulf a normal medium sized creature though a gnome or halfling might only singe their hair. At 15' from the point where the fireball touched the ground it will be 6'9" up. This should miss most medium sized creatures but large sized creatures would still be at risk. (And of course at a 20' distance it will be 20' up).
The next question is HOW much of the target needs to be within the AoE in order to be affected? The fireball spell indicates only that the target needs to be IN the area of effect so perhaps you could target the spell so it only hits their head? However, if the target is roughly the same height as your adjacent party members and since the difference is only 8" over a 5' distance, I would say that the fireball spell would affect any similar height adjacent creatures.
So, YES it is absolutely allowed to target a fireball at ANY point within range of the spell (you don't even need to be able to see it). However, if you are in melee with the target of the fireball and the target is a comparable height to any melee attackers then I would say any adjacent party members would also be affected. Keep in mind that when in melee creatures are dodging and weaving throughout the turn which would include changes to their height ducking and dodging as part of their normal defense and you yelling "duck" doesn't help since the other party members can't move on your turn.
I need some clarification on your distance from the ground explanation. If the fireball is centered 20 feet up, then its radius extends all the way to the ground, and the adjacent squares are definitely in the area of effect.
Second, you do need to have line of sight to the targeted counterpoint of the fireball in accordance with spellcasting rules.
In my games, circles are squares and everything either fills a square or leaves it empty. It makes things faster but loses some tactics (for example, the tactic above wouldn't work).
I games where it does work, I have to ask, why are you doing this? Targeting a fireball so that it only hits one target is a waste of an area of effect spell. Why not just hit the target with an 3rd-level chromatic orb or magic missile? Why not just nudge it with a burning sphere?
Greenstone_Walker makes a good point. There are a few spells that would make more sense in this scenario than casting a fireball at the ceiling. scorching ray, lightning bolt, Melf's Minute Meteors. Those are just the ones that do the same amount of damage in 1 turn at the same level, there are more that do more damage over time like flaming sphere and heat metal.
Keep in mind though that the fireball is a 20' radius sphere. If the caster wants to put the target completely within the fireball - i.e., the fireball extends to the ground at the center of the targets square ...
... then the fireball will be only 8" from the ground at a distance of 5' from the targeted creature. You will certainly blast any creatures adjacent to the target in this case. At a distance of 10' from the ground zero of the fireball it will still only be 2' 8" from the ground. This should partially engulf a normal medium sized creature though a gnome or halfling might only singe their hair. At 15' from the point where the fireball touched the ground it will be 6'9" up. This should miss most medium sized creatures but large sized creatures would still be at risk. (And of course at a 20' distance it will be 20' up).
The next question is HOW much of the target needs to be within the AoE in order to be affected? The fireball spell indicates only that the target needs to be IN the area of effect so perhaps you could target the spell so it only hits their head? However, if the target is roughly the same height as your adjacent party members and since the difference is only 8" over a 5' distance, I would say that the fireball spell would affect any similar height adjacent creatures.
So, YES it is absolutely allowed to target a fireball at ANY point within range of the spell (you don't even need to be able to see it). However, if you are in melee with the target of the fireball and the target is a comparable height to any melee attackers then I would say any adjacent party members would also be affected. Keep in mind that when in melee creatures are dodging and weaving throughout the turn which would include changes to their height ducking and dodging as part of their normal defense and you yelling "duck" doesn't help since the other party members can't move on your turn.
I need some clarification on your distance from the ground explanation. If the fireball is centered 20 feet up, then its radius extends all the way to the ground, and the adjacent squares are definitely in the area of effect.
Second, you do need to have line of sight to the targeted counterpoint of the fireball in accordance with spellcasting rules.
1) Yes the fireball should affect adjacent squares even when targeted 20' up which was the point I was trying to make. The OP seemed to indicate that the caster would cast the fireball spell high in the air in order to avoid affecting party members - presumably close to the target. I was making the point that at the very least party members adjacent to the target of the fireball should also be affected since the fireball doesn't curve up very much at all over a 5' distance.
2) No you do not need to have a line of sight to the targeted centerpoint.
"To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction." PHB 204
You have to have a clear PATH to the targeted point but you do NOT need to be able to SEE that point ... otherwise the second sentence above wouldn't be needed.
The wording of fireball states:
"A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range"
The fireball can be targeted on ANY point within range. Neither the general spell casting rules nor the fireball spell itself requires that you be able to see the center point where you place the spell. Other spells have different wording, some indicate that you have to be able to see the target and others do not. Fireball does not.
By "line of sight," I meant "not behind cover" (in some games these terms are interchangeable, my bad). I just wanted to make sure you were not implying you can put the center of the fireball 10 feet through the ceiling.
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So for the longest time in my DnD group, a player will look at the battle map and will say, "I cast the fire ball above his head so the party isn't hit." I've been allowing it for a long time, but I was just wondering if this was allowed or not. Is there some damage reduction? Can a monster take the full damage if the just the edge of the fireball hits it?
It is absolutely allowed. The spell can originate from any point, it is not limited to the ground or any such thing, simply a point.
The damage is the same whether you're completely engulfed by the spell (meaning at the center) or if you are on the edge of the spell.
In the case of using a grid system; if the spell is in any part of a square then that square is hit by that spell.
Damage reduction will come from the creatures stat block, spells that reduce damage/damage types, certain feats, and full cover.
Keep in mind though that the fireball is a 20' radius sphere. If the caster wants to put the target completely within the fireball - i.e., the fireball extends to the ground at the center of the targets square ...
... then the fireball will be only 8" from the ground at a distance of 5' from the targeted creature. You will certainly blast any creatures adjacent to the target in this case. At a distance of 10' from the ground zero of the fireball it will still only be 2' 8" from the ground. This should partially engulf a normal medium sized creature though a gnome or halfling might only singe their hair. At 15' from the point where the fireball touched the ground it will be 6'9" up. This should miss most medium sized creatures but large sized creatures would still be at risk. (And of course at a 20' distance it will be 20' up).
The next question is HOW much of the target needs to be within the AoE in order to be affected? The fireball spell indicates only that the target needs to be IN the area of effect so perhaps you could target the spell so it only hits their head? However, if the target is roughly the same height as your adjacent party members and since the difference is only 8" over a 5' distance, I would say that the fireball spell would affect any similar height adjacent creatures.
So, YES it is absolutely allowed to target a fireball at ANY point within range of the spell (you don't even need to be able to see it). However, if you are in melee with the target of the fireball and the target is a comparable height to any melee attackers then I would say any adjacent party members would also be affected. Keep in mind that when in melee creatures are dodging and weaving throughout the turn which would include changes to their height ducking and dodging as part of their normal defense and you yelling "duck" doesn't help since the other party members can't move on your turn.
I need some clarification on your distance from the ground explanation. If the fireball is centered 20 feet up, then its radius extends all the way to the ground, and the adjacent squares are definitely in the area of effect.
Second, you do need to have line of sight to the targeted counterpoint of the fireball in accordance with spellcasting rules.
In my games, circles are squares and everything either fills a square or leaves it empty. It makes things faster but loses some tactics (for example, the tactic above wouldn't work).
I games where it does work, I have to ask, why are you doing this? Targeting a fireball so that it only hits one target is a waste of an area of effect spell. Why not just hit the target with an 3rd-level chromatic orb or magic missile? Why not just nudge it with a burning sphere?
Greenstone_Walker makes a good point. There are a few spells that would make more sense in this scenario than casting a fireball at the ceiling. scorching ray, lightning bolt, Melf's Minute Meteors. Those are just the ones that do the same amount of damage in 1 turn at the same level, there are more that do more damage over time like flaming sphere and heat metal.
1) Yes the fireball should affect adjacent squares even when targeted 20' up which was the point I was trying to make. The OP seemed to indicate that the caster would cast the fireball spell high in the air in order to avoid affecting party members - presumably close to the target. I was making the point that at the very least party members adjacent to the target of the fireball should also be affected since the fireball doesn't curve up very much at all over a 5' distance.
2) No you do not need to have a line of sight to the targeted centerpoint.
"To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction." PHB 204
You have to have a clear PATH to the targeted point but you do NOT need to be able to SEE that point ... otherwise the second sentence above wouldn't be needed.
The wording of fireball states:
"A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range"
The fireball can be targeted on ANY point within range. Neither the general spell casting rules nor the fireball spell itself requires that you be able to see the center point where you place the spell. Other spells have different wording, some indicate that you have to be able to see the target and others do not. Fireball does not.
By "line of sight," I meant "not behind cover" (in some games these terms are interchangeable, my bad). I just wanted to make sure you were not implying you can put the center of the fireball 10 feet through the ceiling.