Here are the rules for grappling. Note that grappling and being grappled doesn't limit who you can attack (as long as opponents are still within your reach) nor does it affect your attack.
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It seems like with another successful grapple check you could advance it to the prone condition which confers the same benefits except for the dis on Dex.
You can still attack while restrained. If both you and the grappled creature are restrained (as per the feat) then you attack each other normally (adv and dis cancel out) and others at disadvantage. Others have advantage to attack both of you.
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I like the Grappler feat for characters who want to play a damage sponge like a barbarian. If the opponent has disadvantage to attack anyone but you, then you become a better target for them. Which is honestly more enticing than just granting advantage via reckless attack. And if they want to get past you, the tank, then they need to either defeat you or break the grapple. Against a raging barbarian, that's not so easy.
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Also, yes. If your only goal is to just impose a debuff on the opponent, grappling them and shoving them prone is the best option. A prone creature has disadvantage on attacks and attacks against them within 5 feet have advantage. And because they're grappled they can't stand up.
It seems like with another successful grapple check you could advance it to the prone condition which confers the same benefits except for the dis on Dex.
Shoving someone prone also makes them harder to hit from farther than 5 feet away, while restraining them makes them easier to hit by everyone. If your party has any ranged attackers, the feat is giving you two additional ways to get an offensive benefit from grappling without inconveniencing them, either by helping you attack or by helping everyone else attack.
It's a bit underpowered, yes, but it's far from being the worst feat; that honor goes to Savage Attacker. An easy house rule to make it better is to have it grant +1 strength.
It seems like with another successful grapple check you could advance it to the prone condition which confers the same benefits except for the dis on Dex.
Shoving someone prone also makes them harder to hit from farther than 5 feet away, while restraining them makes them easier to hit by everyone. If your party has any ranged attackers, the feat is giving you two additional ways to get an offensive benefit from grappling without inconveniencing them, either by helping you attack or by helping everyone else attack.
It's a bit underpowered, yes, but it's far from being the worst feat; that honor goes to Savage Attacker. An easy house rule to make it better is to have it grant +1 strength.
Savage attacker is pretty good with great weapon fighting style. There are much better options though.
I'd still have to say it is better than grappler since it actually improves something you will use constantly, instead of trading some advantages for just as many disadvantages.
Savage attacker is pretty good with great weapon fighting style. There are much better options though.
Nah, Great Weapon Fighting Style just makes it worse, and so does using a great sword. The more consistent your damage is, the less likely Savage Attacker is to give you something better than your original roll. For a GWFS great sword user, your mean damage goes from 8.33 without Savage Attacker to 8.82 with, for that one attack.
Think about it. With a great sword and GWFS you're really unlikely to get 1s or 2ds on the d6s, which means you're really unlikely to get a total 2-4 on 2d6; those are the rolls where you'd get the biggest benefit from a reroll. That leaves 5-12, and you're about equally likely to roll under 8.33 as you are to roll over, so for every damage roll where you'd probably roll better, there'll be another time where you rolled high and the reroll will probably be lower.
Now, maybe you hit the first time and it was a high roll, but you can just save it for your second attack right? But your second attack might miss, and that leaves you without using Savage Attacker at all. The second attack might also be relatively high. And sometimes you just won't hit the first time and you'll only be left with the option of using it on your second attack.
The feat slows the game down with extra dice rolls and requires the user to expend additional mental energy trying to work out the best time to use it for the really small benefit of maybe doing some extra damage on one attack, which ends up averages out to less than 1 extra point of damage per round! And it's not even helping you hit more. And it doesn't have any secondary uses or niche benefits.
It's awful, slow, and literally any other feat would be a more useful or interesting choice.
I'd still have to say it is better than grappler since it actually improves something you will use constantly, instead of trading some advantages for just as many disadvantages.
Grappler does improve something you'll use constantly. Not every party can take advantage of the shove prone strategy - if you're in a group with a ranger and Agonizing Blast warlock, shoving enemies prone isn't that great. Also, the prone strategy is slow to get started - you need to waste a second attack shoving prone (and hope you succeed), which means no damage. Using Grappler lets you make your second attack with advantage. And shoving someone prone isn't going to help the spellcasters land DEX save spells like Sacred Flame, Faerie Fire or Catapult.
It's a niche feat, but it's can be useful for some groups. Shoving prone isn't equivalent or strictly better.
Don't know what the consencus here is, but I'm going to homebrew a little bit with the grapple. Please tell me if I'm being too hard against the grappled creature, but I'm not liking that they can attack without any difficulties!
"When a grapple succeedes by more than 5 points, the grappled creature is now considered restrained and all the attacks they make are with disadvantage.
You can use your action to break the grapple. If you succeed, you completely free yourself from the grapple, but if you fail by less than 5 points, you still manage to fight your hands free. You are still considered grappled, but no longer restrained."
The grappler feat can either be ignored altogether, or it can be used to lower the DC for the restrained effect, which could be additional 10 on top of the grapple without the feat?
Don't know what the consencus here is, but I'm going to homebrew a little bit with the grapple. Please tell me if I'm being too hard against the grappled creature, but I'm not liking that they can attack without any difficulties!
"When a grapple succeedes by more than 5 points, the grappled creature is now considered restrained and all the attacks they make are with disadvantage.
You can use your action to break the grapple. If you succeed, you completely free yourself from the grapple, but if you fail by less than 5 points, you still manage to fight your hands free. You are still considered grappled, but no longer restrained."
The grappler feat can either be ignored altogether, or it can be used to lower the DC for the restrained effect, which could be additional 10 on top of the grapple without the feat?
You ought to take a look at this other thread where we have already gone down that path a bit. This kind of discussion would be in good company there.
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How does being grappled affect an attack? I know movement is reduced to 0.
That would limit who could be attacked. What else?
What if the position is advanced to prone and grappled?
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/combat#Grappling
Grappled
Here are the rules for grappling. Note that grappling and being grappled doesn't limit who you can attack (as long as opponents are still within your reach) nor does it affect your attack.
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Is there an acceptance of this rule? A person is wrapped up in a grapple but the still get multiple attacks with no penalty?? Seems .. problematic.
That's what the restrained condition is for. If you're looking for that kind of penalty, try the Grappler feat.
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Being grappled can be as little as having your wrist, shoulder, collar, or belt grabbed. It is not a full nelson.
Being prone does impose disadvantage on attacks, and you can't get up while your movement is 0, so a grapple pins you.
It seems like with another successful grapple check you could advance it to the prone condition which confers the same benefits except for the dis on Dex.
The second effect of the grappler feat is worse than shove and completely negates the the first effect of the feat.
Meaning.. restrained.. nobody can do anything?
You can still attack while restrained. If both you and the grappled creature are restrained (as per the feat) then you attack each other normally (adv and dis cancel out) and others at disadvantage. Others have advantage to attack both of you.
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I don't see that as super helpful. I wonder if there are plans to change it in future.
The feat, not your post !
The feat isn't. Grappler is widely considered one of the worst feats.
I like the Grappler feat for characters who want to play a damage sponge like a barbarian. If the opponent has disadvantage to attack anyone but you, then you become a better target for them. Which is honestly more enticing than just granting advantage via reckless attack. And if they want to get past you, the tank, then they need to either defeat you or break the grapple. Against a raging barbarian, that's not so easy.
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Also, yes. If your only goal is to just impose a debuff on the opponent, grappling them and shoving them prone is the best option. A prone creature has disadvantage on attacks and attacks against them within 5 feet have advantage. And because they're grappled they can't stand up.
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That's a good implementation.
Shoving someone prone also makes them harder to hit from farther than 5 feet away, while restraining them makes them easier to hit by everyone. If your party has any ranged attackers, the feat is giving you two additional ways to get an offensive benefit from grappling without inconveniencing them, either by helping you attack or by helping everyone else attack.
It's a bit underpowered, yes, but it's far from being the worst feat; that honor goes to Savage Attacker. An easy house rule to make it better is to have it grant +1 strength.
Savage attacker is pretty good with great weapon fighting style. There are much better options though.
I'd still have to say it is better than grappler since it actually improves something you will use constantly, instead of trading some advantages for just as many disadvantages.
Nah, Great Weapon Fighting Style just makes it worse, and so does using a great sword. The more consistent your damage is, the less likely Savage Attacker is to give you something better than your original roll. For a GWFS great sword user, your mean damage goes from 8.33 without Savage Attacker to 8.82 with, for that one attack.
Think about it. With a great sword and GWFS you're really unlikely to get 1s or 2ds on the d6s, which means you're really unlikely to get a total 2-4 on 2d6; those are the rolls where you'd get the biggest benefit from a reroll. That leaves 5-12, and you're about equally likely to roll under 8.33 as you are to roll over, so for every damage roll where you'd probably roll better, there'll be another time where you rolled high and the reroll will probably be lower.
Now, maybe you hit the first time and it was a high roll, but you can just save it for your second attack right? But your second attack might miss, and that leaves you without using Savage Attacker at all. The second attack might also be relatively high. And sometimes you just won't hit the first time and you'll only be left with the option of using it on your second attack.
The feat slows the game down with extra dice rolls and requires the user to expend additional mental energy trying to work out the best time to use it for the really small benefit of maybe doing some extra damage on one attack, which ends up averages out to less than 1 extra point of damage per round! And it's not even helping you hit more. And it doesn't have any secondary uses or niche benefits.
It's awful, slow, and literally any other feat would be a more useful or interesting choice.
Grappler does improve something you'll use constantly. Not every party can take advantage of the shove prone strategy - if you're in a group with a ranger and Agonizing Blast warlock, shoving enemies prone isn't that great. Also, the prone strategy is slow to get started - you need to waste a second attack shoving prone (and hope you succeed), which means no damage. Using Grappler lets you make your second attack with advantage. And shoving someone prone isn't going to help the spellcasters land DEX save spells like Sacred Flame, Faerie Fire or Catapult.
It's a niche feat, but it's can be useful for some groups. Shoving prone isn't equivalent or strictly better.
Don't know what the consencus here is, but I'm going to homebrew a little bit with the grapple. Please tell me if I'm being too hard against the grappled creature, but I'm not liking that they can attack without any difficulties!
"When a grapple succeedes by more than 5 points, the grappled creature is now considered restrained and all the attacks they make are with disadvantage.
You can use your action to break the grapple. If you succeed, you completely free yourself from the grapple, but if you fail by less than 5 points, you still manage to fight your hands free. You are still considered grappled, but no longer restrained."
The grappler feat can either be ignored altogether, or it can be used to lower the DC for the restrained effect, which could be additional 10 on top of the grapple without the feat?
I'd just add an additional part under the restrained option.
"if you start your turn already restraining an enemy, then your attacks this turn automatically crit"
Simulating a full mount, beating on the face, type grapple.
Alternitively, make it so that the Grappler feat allows you to grapple an enemy one size larger than normal.
You ought to take a look at this other thread where we have already gone down that path a bit. This kind of discussion would be in good company there.
"Not all those who wander are lost"