I know this has to be in the forum already, I searched and was unsuccessful. So apologies if this has been covered...
I played AD&D (the original 70's version). Now my kids want to play so I'm doing the whole "5e" thing. We played over the weekend and they went from 1st level to 2nd level.
When I was a kid, you had to find a master, spend money, spend a few weeks in game time to "gain the knowledge of the next level." But my kids are used to video games where you "Level Up" jump to your character screen buff yourself, and continue the combat you are currently in. Sometimes they even hold off until their health is low and then level up to get a HP boost.
I couldn't find anything like the AD&D rules in the rulebooks. I even searched here. It's pretty vague. So - how do you handle leveling up? Like the old AD&D days, like a video game? Something in between?
And then there's this whole Milestone thing, is that the "new" way of doing things? << I'm not as interested in this question, just passing curiosity. I'm comfortable with XP, just the leveling up "experience" for the players is my main concern.
As far as I know, the 5th edition system to level up is pretty much similar to the 2nd edition. To gain a level, you have to achieve a certain amount of XP, equal for all the classes, and listed here.
The Milestone is just a method to avoid keeping track of the XP. To be short, when the DM says so, you gain a level.
Thanks for answering. I guess my biggest question is whether it is: a) "poof" you're a new level, buff your HP's and add your spells and skills (this is what my kids think)
or b) You need to find a trainer and go through a process (this is what I'm used to from my youth)
The actual answer is probably somewhere in between. Maybe after a short rest? a long rest? (these resting rules are new to me too... ;-) )
No trainer is needed. HP, skills and spells slots are like "poof". Although, if a spell need preparing, you need to prepare it according to your spellcasting ability (described in the class section of the PHB).
Thanks, that sounds good - so closer to the video game. Perfectly acceptable.
That leads me to just one follow up if I may. Here's the situation:
The party has overcome a goblin ambush, taken out some goblin guards, they are hot on the pursuit of rescuing some captured villagers. They are wounded and spells are depleted.
After defeating the outer guards they are eligable to level up!
Can they use this to recouperate. reset HP (all, or just the new ones?), new spell slots? They could probably get away with a short rest. But a long rest and the villagers would probably already be dinner by then.
As a new and improving DM, what would you allow the party to do? I'm thinking a short rest would give them the new HP and some spell recoup. Decisions, decisions.
Usually, when a character gain a new level, and hence new HPs, they already have those HPs no need for a rest.
The short rest allows you to spend some Hit Dice to recover HPs. Aside the Warlocks, which recover spell slots with a short rest, the other classes recover spell slots after a long rest.
In the situation you described, yes I would allow a short rest for the party.
Note that you can very easily homebrew this tiny rule if you prefer.
I've seen that "go to town and find a trainer" may derail things, however, especially if you let the players know "you're eligible for level up now". Doubly so if they're young, I imagine. It's not fun to see the party pack up and leave the dungeon three rooms from completion to go back to town and train.
Still, I've found that "during the next Long Rest" is a good balance between suspension of disbelief (less "poof" and more "okay, let's review what we've learned so far") and keeping the pace going.
I also chose "during the next Long Rest" in the game I run, for pretty much the same reasons as Onyx: It's not "poof" and suddenly giving characters more spell slots and HP without them resting, but it's still fast enough to keep them from having to run all the way back to town. Also, long rests tend to occur at breaks in the action in any case, so leveling up (which can take a while) doesn't interrupt the flow and excitement of a sequence of encounters.
Majority of DMs I've played with or spoken to only hand out XP at the end of the session, not as you defeat each encounter, trap, etc. I've also never seen anyone level up until a long rest situation (and normally need to be in a safe area, like a town).
Can they level up in the middle of a fight? Well sure, if you as the DM lets them. Would I as a DM allow this in my game? Absolutely not.
PS: Totally forgot about the older editions training requirements. Totally having that in my next campaign.
I award XP on the fly, as it's earned, to make the bookkeeping easier. This means that it's also easier for me to have my player((s), if I ever manage it) level up immediately.
Of course, that's for in-person games; PbP is more-or-less the same, though, so I'm not sure why I mentioned it.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I always found it interesting that the AD&D PHB said on the topic of training; "...but none of this is suitable to gaming. It is, therefore, discarded and subsumed as taking place on a character's 'off hours.'" But then the AD&D DMG says to grade the performance of the character over the course of the last level to determine how many weeks (1-4) training will take and also has the cost equation, "Level of trainee character x 1,500 = Weekly cost during study/training."
Some later editions made the time and cost of training into optional rules, which I much prefer over the presentation that sends mixed signals.
5th edition also presents training to gain levels as a variant rule (found in the downtime activities section of the DMG), with time and cost based on tier (2nd-4th; 5th-10th; 11th-16th; and 17th-20th) instead of the actual level number itself.
My group awards XP at the end of the session. We have an unwritten rule that allows you to level up in an existing class wherever you are. However if you want to multi-class, you than have to wait until you get to town to find someone to train you. If you are going to multi-class into a class that is in the party, it is assumed the other party member is training you.
I hand out experience at long rests. There isn't a rule on how to do it, so it is a "poof" thing, but of course you can change that in your game if you wish.
i do long rests for two reasons, first it's generally where we might take a break ourselves so I'm not wasting time handing out xp during "active" play, and second I feel it's giving the characters time to reflect on their "experiences" from the day and meditate/study/reflect upon themselves, giving them their experiences for the day.
I use the rule that is used for Dungeons and Dragons Adventure League which states "A character who earns enough XP to advance a level does so at the end of a long rest or at the end of an episode or an adventure." The method of leveling up as soon as the XP crosses the level threshold or leveling during a short rest seems a tad bit game-breaking to me.
We award XP at the end of a session and we use the optional downtime/training Time/Cost Rules in the DMG. If we explain to our DM what we're doing to train, how we're finding our trainer, what we are spending the money doing etc. we start the next session with inspiration as well. The optional rule eats up some time ( for EX: 1-4 level requires a week worth of downtime and 20GP training costs) and some money but seems to be working well for us for now.
Although I think the mechanics of doing this would be tedious, I actually find the idea of leveling up as you are doing the thing that you gain XP from makes lots of sense. You've been practicing that new move, but never really pulled it off in battle, but now, with your back is to the wall, you pull it off. That's a boost to morale (more HP!) and of course you now have the new abilities available.
The DMG has alternate optional rules for requiring training to gain levels during downtime. I don't have my DMG handy to get the page number, but it's in Chapter 6 Between Adventures - Downtime Activities.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I know this has to be in the forum already, I searched and was unsuccessful. So apologies if this has been covered...
I played AD&D (the original 70's version). Now my kids want to play so I'm doing the whole "5e" thing. We played over the weekend and they went from 1st level to 2nd level.
When I was a kid, you had to find a master, spend money, spend a few weeks in game time to "gain the knowledge of the next level." But my kids are used to video games where you "Level Up" jump to your character screen buff yourself, and continue the combat you are currently in. Sometimes they even hold off until their health is low and then level up to get a HP boost.
I couldn't find anything like the AD&D rules in the rulebooks. I even searched here. It's pretty vague. So - how do you handle leveling up? Like the old AD&D days, like a video game? Something in between?
And then there's this whole Milestone thing, is that the "new" way of doing things? << I'm not as interested in this question, just passing curiosity. I'm comfortable with XP, just the leveling up "experience" for the players is my main concern.
As far as I know, the 5th edition system to level up is pretty much similar to the 2nd edition. To gain a level, you have to achieve a certain amount of XP, equal for all the classes, and listed here.
The Milestone is just a method to avoid keeping track of the XP. To be short, when the DM says so, you gain a level.
Thanks for answering. I guess my biggest question is whether it is:
a) "poof" you're a new level, buff your HP's and add your spells and skills (this is what my kids think)
or b) You need to find a trainer and go through a process (this is what I'm used to from my youth)
The actual answer is probably somewhere in between. Maybe after a short rest? a long rest? (these resting rules are new to me too... ;-) )
No trainer is needed. HP, skills and spells slots are like "poof". Although, if a spell need preparing, you need to prepare it according to your spellcasting ability (described in the class section of the PHB).
Thanks, that sounds good - so closer to the video game. Perfectly acceptable.
That leads me to just one follow up if I may. Here's the situation:
The party has overcome a goblin ambush, taken out some goblin guards, they are hot on the pursuit of rescuing some captured villagers. They are wounded and spells are depleted.
After defeating the outer guards they are eligable to level up!
Can they use this to recouperate. reset HP (all, or just the new ones?), new spell slots? They could probably get away with a short rest. But a long rest and the villagers would probably already be dinner by then.
As a new and improving DM, what would you allow the party to do? I'm thinking a short rest would give them the new HP and some spell recoup. Decisions, decisions.
Usually, when a character gain a new level, and hence new HPs, they already have those HPs no need for a rest.
The short rest allows you to spend some Hit Dice to recover HPs. Aside the Warlocks, which recover spell slots with a short rest, the other classes recover spell slots after a long rest.
In the situation you described, yes I would allow a short rest for the party.
Thank you. You rock, sir. (Unless, of course, you are more affiliated with water elementals, in that case you... drip?)
LOL :-) You are welcome. Enjoy.
Note that you can very easily homebrew this tiny rule if you prefer.
I've seen that "go to town and find a trainer" may derail things, however, especially if you let the players know "you're eligible for level up now". Doubly so if they're young, I imagine. It's not fun to see the party pack up and leave the dungeon three rooms from completion to go back to town and train.
Still, I've found that "during the next Long Rest" is a good balance between suspension of disbelief (less "poof" and more "okay, let's review what we've learned so far") and keeping the pace going.
I also chose "during the next Long Rest" in the game I run, for pretty much the same reasons as Onyx: It's not "poof" and suddenly giving characters more spell slots and HP without them resting, but it's still fast enough to keep them from having to run all the way back to town. Also, long rests tend to occur at breaks in the action in any case, so leveling up (which can take a while) doesn't interrupt the flow and excitement of a sequence of encounters.
Majority of DMs I've played with or spoken to only hand out XP at the end of the session, not as you defeat each encounter, trap, etc. I've also never seen anyone level up until a long rest situation (and normally need to be in a safe area, like a town).
Can they level up in the middle of a fight? Well sure, if you as the DM lets them. Would I as a DM allow this in my game? Absolutely not.
PS: Totally forgot about the older editions training requirements. Totally having that in my next campaign.
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I award XP on the fly, as it's earned, to make the bookkeeping easier. This means that it's also easier for me to have my player((s), if I ever manage it) level up immediately.
Of course, that's for in-person games; PbP is more-or-less the same, though, so I'm not sure why I mentioned it.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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I always found it interesting that the AD&D PHB said on the topic of training; "...but none of this is suitable to gaming. It is, therefore, discarded and subsumed as taking place on a character's 'off hours.'" But then the AD&D DMG says to grade the performance of the character over the course of the last level to determine how many weeks (1-4) training will take and also has the cost equation, "Level of trainee character x 1,500 = Weekly cost during study/training."
Some later editions made the time and cost of training into optional rules, which I much prefer over the presentation that sends mixed signals.
5th edition also presents training to gain levels as a variant rule (found in the downtime activities section of the DMG), with time and cost based on tier (2nd-4th; 5th-10th; 11th-16th; and 17th-20th) instead of the actual level number itself.
My group awards XP at the end of the session. We have an unwritten rule that allows you to level up in an existing class wherever you are. However if you want to multi-class, you than have to wait until you get to town to find someone to train you. If you are going to multi-class into a class that is in the party, it is assumed the other party member is training you.
I hand out experience at long rests. There isn't a rule on how to do it, so it is a "poof" thing, but of course you can change that in your game if you wish.
i do long rests for two reasons, first it's generally where we might take a break ourselves so I'm not wasting time handing out xp during "active" play, and second I feel it's giving the characters time to reflect on their "experiences" from the day and meditate/study/reflect upon themselves, giving them their experiences for the day.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
I use the rule that is used for Dungeons and Dragons Adventure League which states "A character who earns enough XP to advance a level does so at the end of a long rest or at the end of an episode or an adventure." The method of leveling up as soon as the XP crosses the level threshold or leveling during a short rest seems a tad bit game-breaking to me.
We award XP at the end of a session and we use the optional downtime/training Time/Cost Rules in the DMG. If we explain to our DM what we're doing to train, how we're finding our trainer, what we are spending the money doing etc. we start the next session with inspiration as well. The optional rule eats up some time ( for EX: 1-4 level requires a week worth of downtime and 20GP training costs) and some money but seems to be working well for us for now.
Although I think the mechanics of doing this would be tedious, I actually find the idea of leveling up as you are doing the thing that you gain XP from makes lots of sense. You've been practicing that new move, but never really pulled it off in battle, but now, with your back is to the wall, you pull it off. That's a boost to morale (more HP!) and of course you now have the new abilities available.
The DMG has alternate optional rules for requiring training to gain levels during downtime. I don't have my DMG handy to get the page number, but it's in Chapter 6 Between Adventures - Downtime Activities.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Is this a finite rule in the phb?
" Video Games don't kill people; Lag kills people " ~ A Wise Old Man