The item description on DDB says unless the spell is on your class spell list the scroll is unintelligible which implies only spellcasters can use them. DMG, however, states
any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it. What am I missing?
IIRC Scrolls and Spell Scrolls are two separate things. However, I have been up all night reading XGE so everything is a little fuzzy.
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GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links. https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole @BonusRole
From the DMG and also the Spell Scroll magic item description
A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost.
If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.
However, I have always thought anyone could read a scroll. I guess we were both wrong.
There are two passages of text which address the topic of who can use a scroll: the general rules for magical scrolls which are found where magic item categories are explained, and the specific rules for spell scrolls quoted in this thread.
The general rule is that anyone who can read a language can read the scroll and attempt to activate it. This makes it so anyone can use types of scrolls that aren't spell scrolls, such as scroll of protection.
The confusion comes from the most familiar type of magical scroll, the spell scroll, having a specific exception to the general scroll rules.
So a Scroll of X is different than a Spell Scroll: X, right?
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GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links. https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole @BonusRole
So a Scroll of X is different than a Spell Scroll: X, right?
Yes, and potentially no.
If you mean to ask if, for example, a scroll of magic missile is different from a spell scroll: magic missile, the answer is no. That's just two ways to phrase the same item.
If you mean to ask if a scroll of protection from undead has different usage rules than a spell scroll, the answer is yes.
There are also hypothetical other scrolls which could be brought into the game that would follow the general rule of anyone that can understand a language being able to read and use them, such as that I have added scrolls to my home campaign which can do spell-like things (i.e. restoring life to the dead, providing some lasting sort of buff or special capability, and the like) without requiring the user to be a spellcaster of any sort - so that the party isn't lost as to what they are going to do if their cleric were to be the one to die, and the players don't feel pressured to pick characters of particular classes so that campaign-enabling abilities like water breathing (a thing that is very hard to have a successful on- or underwater campaign without access to) aren't off limits to the party.
I have a house rule for this since the spell is already placed on a scroll.
1. If the spell is on the character's class spell list, and it is a level they can cast, they can cast it with no problems.
2. If the spell is on a character's class spell list, but is a higher level than they can cast, they can attempt to cast it by making an Arcana or Religion check (obviously corresponding to the type of spell it is) vs DC of 10 + the spell's level.
3. If the character is not a spell caster, they can attempt to cast the spell from the scroll with an Arcana or Religion check vs DC 10 + the spell's level with disadvantage. If the check fails, the spell fails and they must make a scroll mishap check as per the variant rule in the DMG. (DC 10 Int Save). On a failed save they roll on the mishap table in the DMG.
4. If the character is a spell caster, but the spell is not on their class spell list, they can attempt to cast the spell by making an Arcana or Religion check vs DC 10 + the spells level. If the check fails, the spell fails and they must make a scroll mishap check as per the variant rule in the DMG. (DC 10 Int Save). On a failed save they roll on the mishap table in the DMG.
The house rule Heatseeker911 uses accurately reflects what is written in the category description of scrolls. In the categorical description of scrolls there is no qualifier on the statement of who can read and attempt to use a scroll. From the replies to my question, I gathered the qualifier, "Unless otherwise stated in the scroll's description,..." was assumed. I am new enough to the game that I was genuinely confused by the contradiction. Again, thanks for clarifying how scrolls are actually used. lol Just reread my post and there obviously is the qualifier any creature that can understand a written language oops :)
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Can you clarify one thing for me on your rules. You say you roll on the scroll mishap table which I understand. Then after you give a saving throw. Which I also understand but you say if they fail that you roll on the mishap table again? Is that the same table so they would get two affects? Or am I just misreading it?
Thanks,
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Please do not revive heavily aged threads, as per our Thread Necromancy rules. This thread was last active in 2017. Thank you!
The item description on DDB says unless the spell is on your class spell list the scroll is unintelligible which implies only spellcasters can use them. DMG, however, states
any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it. What am I missing?
IIRC Scrolls and Spell Scrolls are two separate things. However, I have been up all night reading XGE so everything is a little fuzzy.
GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links.
https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole
@BonusRole
From the DMG and also the Spell Scroll magic item description
However, I have always thought anyone could read a scroll. I guess we were both wrong.
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There are two passages of text which address the topic of who can use a scroll: the general rules for magical scrolls which are found where magic item categories are explained, and the specific rules for spell scrolls quoted in this thread.
The general rule is that anyone who can read a language can read the scroll and attempt to activate it. This makes it so anyone can use types of scrolls that aren't spell scrolls, such as scroll of protection.
The confusion comes from the most familiar type of magical scroll, the spell scroll, having a specific exception to the general scroll rules.
great explanation!
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
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So a Scroll of X is different than a Spell Scroll: X, right?
GM of The Bonus Role - We are playing a 5E game set in my homebrew world of Audra check us out Sunday's at 10 AM CST and follow us at the following social media links.
https://www.twitch.tv/thebonusrole
@BonusRole
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew I had to be missing something. (not unusual for me :p)
I have a house rule for this since the spell is already placed on a scroll.
1. If the spell is on the character's class spell list, and it is a level they can cast, they can cast it with no problems.
2. If the spell is on a character's class spell list, but is a higher level than they can cast, they can attempt to cast it by making an Arcana or Religion check (obviously corresponding to the type of spell it is) vs DC of 10 + the spell's level.
3. If the character is not a spell caster, they can attempt to cast the spell from the scroll with an Arcana or Religion check vs DC 10 + the spell's level with disadvantage. If the check fails, the spell fails and they must make a scroll mishap check as per the variant rule in the DMG. (DC 10 Int Save). On a failed save they roll on the mishap table in the DMG.
4. If the character is a spell caster, but the spell is not on their class spell list, they can attempt to cast the spell by making an Arcana or Religion check vs DC 10 + the spells level. If the check fails, the spell fails and they must make a scroll mishap check as per the variant rule in the DMG. (DC 10 Int Save). On a failed save they roll on the mishap table in the DMG.
The house rule Heatseeker911 uses accurately reflects what is written in the category description of scrolls. In the categorical description of scrolls there is no qualifier on the statement of who can read and attempt to use a scroll. From the replies to my question, I gathered the qualifier, "Unless otherwise stated in the scroll's description,..." was assumed. I am new enough to the game that I was genuinely confused by the contradiction. Again, thanks for clarifying how scrolls are actually used. lol Just reread my post and there obviously is the qualifier any creature that can understand a written language oops :)
Can you clarify one thing for me on your rules. You say you roll on the scroll mishap table which I understand. Then after you give a saving throw. Which I also understand but you say if they fail that you roll on the mishap table again? Is that the same table so they would get two affects? Or am I just misreading it?
Thanks,
He said they make a mishap check. If they fail that, then they roll to see what mishap occurs.