My group is starting a new campaign soon and I would like to play a bard college of whispers. I've never tried multiclassing and was wandering what my best options were. I had some ideas already, but wasn't sure how to implement them. I had an idea to take 2 levels of druid circle of the moon just for wild shape, or maybe to go for sorcerer divine soul. Honestly, I have no idea how these would work in a real situation, so does anyone have tips(about classes, levels, ability scores or spells)? We're starting at 3rd level and are probably not going further than lvl 12. Abilities don't have to be just combat related, I enjoy roleplaying and it will likely be a big part of our group. (that's why I chose college of whispers)
First thing I would like to point out is a few common misconceptions when it comes to multiclassing - sorry if you already knew this, but I thought I would go over it just in case because I've seen a lot of people miss these rules when its their first time making a multiclass character. Class features and spells known do not scale with character level, only class level. This means that your psychic blades damage is going to rely just on your bard level, it does not take your full character level into account. So, if you're going to play a level 3 bard / level 2 something else, the damage will be an extra 2d6, not 3d6.
Also note that, while your cantrip damage will scale with your full character level, and you'll get more spell slots, do keep in mind that you're still restricted in your spells known. Our aforementioned 3 bard / 2 ??? caster might have access to tier 3 spell slots, but they can only tier 2 bard spells and tier 1 of the other class spells. If your bard knew Sleep, you could cast Sleep as a level 3 spell, put more people to sleep, but you won't be able to learn or cast Hypnotic Pattern or Call Lightning for a few more levels.
Okay, now onto actual building the character. I highly recommend against multiclassing until you get to at least level 5. Font of Inspiration is huge for every bard, and not getting it hampers your character like you wouldn't believe. Being restricted to only 3~4 Inspirations a day is a huge drag.
Now, assuming that you even have 13 WIS to go moon druid, I would recommend against that particular option. The class simply doesn't offer you much in the way of benefits, combat or otherwise. Wildshape can be decent for exploring, but you'll never be able to swim or fly, and that's not really playing to your strength as a bard - you inspire OTHERS to go exploring and make them better, and you already have access to Expertise, making the animal skills redundant. You can't social-fu as an animal, while your bard should be good at it, and level 2 wildshaping scales terribly for combat. Circle of the Shepherd and its summons might work better.
Common bard multiclassing includes paladin, fighter, rogue, sorcerer and warlock. Paladin and Fighter are usually paired with Valor or Sword bards, while Whisperer is more subtle, so those two shouldn't really be considered either. That leaves rogue, sorcerer and warlock.
Warlock 2 is always a good dip to take for many classes - you get short rest recharge spell slots, and access to Hex and Eldritch Blast /Agonizing Blast, one of the best damage cantrip combinations in the game. That said, Eldritch Blast doesn't combine with Psychic Blades at all, so despite being very strong, its not very Whisper-like at all.
If you go Sorcerer, you're going to want at least 3 levels for metamagic. Metamagic has some very, very good options for social and combat, especially for support-based spells that bards love having. Subtle spell is fun in social scenes, and everyone loves Twinned Spell buffs.
Rogue gives you more skills, more Expertise, Cunning Action and some extra damage for when you hit someone with Psychic blades.
If you happen to get an Instrument of the Bards, be sure to take Hypnotic Pattern as a spell.
The real question is, what does the Whispers Bard lack that you're hoping to gain by multi-classing? It's hard to help with this decision unless we understand what you want.
I'm playing a Vengedin with one level of Bard currently. I'm planning to hit level 6 in vengeance paladin and complete everything else as College of Whispers. (In his head the character still considers himself a bard rather than a paladin)
I don't think it's going to be the most powerful build possible, but all the infiltration and manipulation magic provided by the college of whispers will be fun for his oath which basically 'death to fiendish collaborators and cults'.
I feel like a Hexblade Warlock would combine well with College of Whispers. You get the benefits of Hex Warrior, which adds some more damage to your attacks by tying them to your Charisma mod (EDIT: And it also gives you access to Medium armor, shields, and Martial weapons), and if you take Pact of the Blade you can have a weapon that you'll be able to magically summon, so you can enter social situations seemingly unarmed and still be ready to strike suddenly and secretly at any moment.
Dipping into Great Old One Warlock makes a lot of thematic sense for a Whispers bard. Think about it: you can read minds WITHOUT expending a spell slot. Combine that with Minor Illusion for all kinds of manipulative hijinks. Also. with Pact of the Chain, you get a super useful (maybe invisible) familiar to further your info-gathering, larceny, etc. You're a Bard who is good at underhanded stuff, not tanking. Let other people do that for you. Do what you do best.
Dipping into rogue would fit thematically, because Whisper Bards and especially Mastermind Rogues have the same ideals and similar abilities (Sneak Attack, Psychic Blades etc.)
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“Basically, if you tell anyone, we’ll kill you. We’re pretty good at that sort of stuff”-Salros Viper, Whispers Bard, paid assassin
Currently playing a tiefling whispbard 6 rogue 2 and looking forward to going swashbuckler. It fits with my criminal background. Plus charisma plays into some of the abilities. And the D6’s keep dropping with psychic blades and sneak attack. And a instrument of the bards give a free invisibility for extra stealth and first attack with advantage. Fancy foot work let’s you get out of that ambush if the target doesn’t die. But if you’re trying to go toe to toe with a minion you still get to sneak while one on one. Assassin didn’t quite feel right with the charismatic type
For story, not "build" reasons I am contemplating a so far Wizard 2 (war magic) Bard 3 Whispers possibly taking a dip into Barbarian. Is there anything blocking the Whisperbards psychic blades from combining with the barbarians rage. Not clear if this is a legit stack or a rule breaker. I'm thinking Whisper Bard + Barbarian = Seething Rage, and the War Magic's Tactical Wit makes him sort of Grey Hulk or latter day comics Hulk in having enhancements from wrath, but intelligently guided wrath. This fits the character concept and where the campaign has brought him, just not sure if I'm laying it on thick with the mechanical effects; but then again he's pretty diluted being character level six and still piddling around in level three and lower features.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
My group is starting a new campaign soon and I would like to play a bard college of whispers. I've never tried multiclassing and was wandering what my best options were. I had some ideas already, but wasn't sure how to implement them. I had an idea to take 2 levels of druid circle of the moon just for wild shape, or maybe to go for sorcerer divine soul. Honestly, I have no idea how these would work in a real situation, so does anyone have tips(about classes, levels, ability scores or spells)? We're starting at 3rd level and are probably not going further than lvl 12. Abilities don't have to be just combat related, I enjoy roleplaying and it will likely be a big part of our group. (that's why I chose college of whispers)
I am playing a Whispers bard and they are amazing fun. To multiclass or not is a difficult question. You have to understand the reasons for doing so, what are you gaining and what are you losing. I started out mine by taking a level of Divine Soul sorcerer at first level. It gives you some nice extra cantrips and also gives you proficiency in Con saving throws which is really important if you are going to use concentration spells. Getting access to low level sorcerer spells as well really helped as I gained cure wounds as a bonus known spell and also Bless for party buffing. As both classes are full caster classes you maintain spell casting progression for your spell slots but lag behind in spells known - so when you get level 3 slots you can still only know level 2 spells. That said upcasting your spells isn't a bad thing - dissonant whispers / guiding bolt etc all go well when you upcast them as do buffs like bless or debuffs like bane.
Multiclassing works really well for me in that character but it doesn't mea it would for you too. So make sure you know what you are doing with the character, what your theme will be, how you want to play the charcter as well as the mechanical gains and losses.
For story, not "build" reasons I am contemplating a so far Wizard 2 (war magic) Bard 3 Whispers possibly taking a dip into Barbarian. Is there anything blocking the Whisperbards psychic blades from combining with the barbarians rage. Not clear if this is a legit stack or a rule breaker. I'm thinking Whisper Bard + Barbarian = Seething Rage, and the War Magic's Tactical Wit makes him sort of Grey Hulk or latter day comics Hulk in having enhancements from wrath, but intelligently guided wrath. This fits the character concept and where the campaign has brought him, just not sure if I'm laying it on thick with the mechanical effects; but then again he's pretty diluted being character level six and still piddling around in level three and lower features.
Yeah, triple class is pretty rough. Have you considered covering the "hulk out" feature through Transmutation magic instead? Another level of Wizard could give you access to Haste, the benefits of which can easily be reflavored as a physical enhancement/transformation.
But if Barb fits your reasons better, I don't see why you couldn't use psychic blades while raging. Seems fine to me.
Thanks for the feedback, Beard and Scatter. My big concern was whether Rage combat features could stack with others, and it seems we're good with that outside of spell casting and concentration effects (which is sort of moot with this guy as you'll see). I do like the idea of Transmutation as one way a Wizard could explore "hulking out" for a more pure Dr. Banner concept. I had contemplated a Sorcerer/blaster route for this character but am opting for a more a "somewhat subtler" build.
To lay out what I'm getting at is we have a Hobgoblin (wait, Hobgoblins don't see the point in art and culture ... wait for it). He started out as a Wizard who took archaeologist as his background and took War Magic at second level. Basically he's been tasked by his Hobgoblin nation's version of the CIA to range the world searching for magics that will aid their nation's "security effort." Think Indiana Jones as played by Worf on Star Trek with a little Garek from Deep Space Nine when he lightens up (an Indiana Jones that would be totally cool with the Pentagon keeping the Ark in some secret warehouse). After War Caster and its Tactical Wit, Whisper Bard seemed to make sense for a "spy" that's focused on cultivating lore as leads to potential power grabs for his people ... plus he's adopted as his "cover" the role of manager for a party that's literally a traveling band consisting of two other bards, a barbarian, and a rogue, most of whom adventure to find more lore to deliver to their audiences. So he's seen the power of Bardic lore based inspiration, etc. ... and has literally weaponized it. Through the Barbarian and an arc among her people, he has become fascinated by rage (kinda like David Banner come to think of it) and his "dip" represents considerable time gaining acceptance among the Barbarians people to be introduced to the primal paths ... with the intention that he can bring the Primal Paths back to his people and cultivate a rage driven warrior sect ... for the defense of his people.
I know Rage may negate some of the benefits of War Magic aside from tactical wit, but actually most of his spell list is largely divination to aid with exploration and study and spy mode. So detect thoughts, identify, hold person, etc. Sure he's got combat cantrips and he's curious about magical mass destruction but his own personal magic use is more a means for information and understanding.
After the dip with Barbarian, not sure how far I'll go. I think ultimately whispers may be the dominant class despite the initial Wizard step.
But yeah, across the board, Bards are fun. I only had exposure to the class really in AD&D (I don't think they made it as a full class into 2e) and they seemed more a "concept" you could accomplish after having literally done it all in game. 5e's approach is better, and I'd argue one of the more diverse sets of options out there.
If you go Sorcerer, you're going to want at least 3 levels for metamagic. Metamagic has some very, very good options for social and combat, especially for support-based spells that bards love having. Subtle spell is fun in social scenes, and everyone loves Twinned Spell buffs.
Just to add some new information to account for new publications.
Now, since the release of Tasha’s Cauldron, there is a feat you can take to gain two Sorcery Points and two Metamagic Options. So with that feat and a 2 level dip into Sorcerer, you actually get an additional SP over the 3 level dip, and without as big an impact on the Bard progression. But picking the right time to take that second level is rough because the Bard stuff is all so good, especially Whispers. (I personally recommend Divine Soul, but that’s mostly because I dislike the Subclasses in Tasha’s so immensely.)
Something I found very fun for my whispers bars was a level 1-2 dip into warlock, specifically Great Old One pact. As a level one ability "Awakened Mind" let's you communicate telepathically with anyone within 30ft regardless of language. This combined with metamagic adopt subtle spell (silent friends or suggestion spell) is brilliant for social encounters. Want to influence a king in the middle of court and not be caught and executed? No problem. So much fun to be had with this combo.
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My group is starting a new campaign soon and I would like to play a bard college of whispers. I've never tried multiclassing and was wandering what my best options were. I had some ideas already, but wasn't sure how to implement them. I had an idea to take 2 levels of druid circle of the moon just for wild shape, or maybe to go for sorcerer divine soul. Honestly, I have no idea how these would work in a real situation, so does anyone have tips(about classes, levels, ability scores or spells)? We're starting at 3rd level and are probably not going further than lvl 12. Abilities don't have to be just combat related, I enjoy roleplaying and it will likely be a big part of our group. (that's why I chose college of whispers)
First thing I would like to point out is a few common misconceptions when it comes to multiclassing - sorry if you already knew this, but I thought I would go over it just in case because I've seen a lot of people miss these rules when its their first time making a multiclass character. Class features and spells known do not scale with character level, only class level. This means that your psychic blades damage is going to rely just on your bard level, it does not take your full character level into account. So, if you're going to play a level 3 bard / level 2 something else, the damage will be an extra 2d6, not 3d6.
Also note that, while your cantrip damage will scale with your full character level, and you'll get more spell slots, do keep in mind that you're still restricted in your spells known. Our aforementioned 3 bard / 2 ??? caster might have access to tier 3 spell slots, but they can only tier 2 bard spells and tier 1 of the other class spells. If your bard knew Sleep, you could cast Sleep as a level 3 spell, put more people to sleep, but you won't be able to learn or cast Hypnotic Pattern or Call Lightning for a few more levels.
Okay, now onto actual building the character. I highly recommend against multiclassing until you get to at least level 5. Font of Inspiration is huge for every bard, and not getting it hampers your character like you wouldn't believe. Being restricted to only 3~4 Inspirations a day is a huge drag.
Now, assuming that you even have 13 WIS to go moon druid, I would recommend against that particular option. The class simply doesn't offer you much in the way of benefits, combat or otherwise. Wildshape can be decent for exploring, but you'll never be able to swim or fly, and that's not really playing to your strength as a bard - you inspire OTHERS to go exploring and make them better, and you already have access to Expertise, making the animal skills redundant. You can't social-fu as an animal, while your bard should be good at it, and level 2 wildshaping scales terribly for combat. Circle of the Shepherd and its summons might work better.
Common bard multiclassing includes paladin, fighter, rogue, sorcerer and warlock. Paladin and Fighter are usually paired with Valor or Sword bards, while Whisperer is more subtle, so those two shouldn't really be considered either. That leaves rogue, sorcerer and warlock.
If you happen to get an Instrument of the Bards, be sure to take Hypnotic Pattern as a spell.
Wow, thanks! I would have never considered some of those things on my own! I'll look in to them for sure!
The best multiclass is almost always no multiclass.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Incorrect. Multiclassing is amazing!
The real question is, what does the Whispers Bard lack that you're hoping to gain by multi-classing? It's hard to help with this decision unless we understand what you want.
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I would consider keeping the same main ability. Charisma. So paladin, warlock, sorcerer..
This gives me some ideas....
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I'm playing a Vengedin with one level of Bard currently. I'm planning to hit level 6 in vengeance paladin and complete everything else as College of Whispers. (In his head the character still considers himself a bard rather than a paladin)
I don't think it's going to be the most powerful build possible, but all the infiltration and manipulation magic provided by the college of whispers will be fun for his oath which basically 'death to fiendish collaborators and cults'.
I feel like a Hexblade Warlock would combine well with College of Whispers. You get the benefits of Hex Warrior, which adds some more damage to your attacks by tying them to your Charisma mod (EDIT: And it also gives you access to Medium armor, shields, and Martial weapons), and if you take Pact of the Blade you can have a weapon that you'll be able to magically summon, so you can enter social situations seemingly unarmed and still be ready to strike suddenly and secretly at any moment.
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Dipping into Great Old One Warlock makes a lot of thematic sense for a Whispers bard. Think about it: you can read minds WITHOUT expending a spell slot. Combine that with Minor Illusion for all kinds of manipulative hijinks. Also. with Pact of the Chain, you get a super useful (maybe invisible) familiar to further your info-gathering, larceny, etc. You're a Bard who is good at underhanded stuff, not tanking. Let other people do that for you. Do what you do best.
Dipping into rogue would fit thematically, because Whisper Bards and especially Mastermind Rogues have the same ideals and similar abilities (Sneak Attack, Psychic Blades etc.)
“Basically, if you tell anyone, we’ll kill you. We’re pretty good at that sort of stuff”-Salros Viper, Whispers Bard, paid assassin
Currently playing a tiefling whispbard 6 rogue 2 and looking forward to going swashbuckler. It fits with my criminal background. Plus charisma plays into some of the abilities. And the D6’s keep dropping with psychic blades and sneak attack. And a instrument of the bards give a free invisibility for extra stealth and first attack with advantage. Fancy foot work let’s you get out of that ambush if the target doesn’t die. But if you’re trying to go toe to toe with a minion you still get to sneak while one on one. Assassin didn’t quite feel right with the charismatic type
For story, not "build" reasons I am contemplating a so far Wizard 2 (war magic) Bard 3 Whispers possibly taking a dip into Barbarian. Is there anything blocking the Whisperbards psychic blades from combining with the barbarians rage. Not clear if this is a legit stack or a rule breaker. I'm thinking Whisper Bard + Barbarian = Seething Rage, and the War Magic's Tactical Wit makes him sort of Grey Hulk or latter day comics Hulk in having enhancements from wrath, but intelligently guided wrath. This fits the character concept and where the campaign has brought him, just not sure if I'm laying it on thick with the mechanical effects; but then again he's pretty diluted being character level six and still piddling around in level three and lower features.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I am playing a Whispers bard and they are amazing fun. To multiclass or not is a difficult question. You have to understand the reasons for doing so, what are you gaining and what are you losing. I started out mine by taking a level of Divine Soul sorcerer at first level. It gives you some nice extra cantrips and also gives you proficiency in Con saving throws which is really important if you are going to use concentration spells. Getting access to low level sorcerer spells as well really helped as I gained cure wounds as a bonus known spell and also Bless for party buffing. As both classes are full caster classes you maintain spell casting progression for your spell slots but lag behind in spells known - so when you get level 3 slots you can still only know level 2 spells. That said upcasting your spells isn't a bad thing - dissonant whispers / guiding bolt etc all go well when you upcast them as do buffs like bless or debuffs like bane.
Multiclassing works really well for me in that character but it doesn't mea it would for you too. So make sure you know what you are doing with the character, what your theme will be, how you want to play the charcter as well as the mechanical gains and losses.
Yeah, triple class is pretty rough. Have you considered covering the "hulk out" feature through Transmutation magic instead? Another level of Wizard could give you access to Haste, the benefits of which can easily be reflavored as a physical enhancement/transformation.
But if Barb fits your reasons better, I don't see why you couldn't use psychic blades while raging. Seems fine to me.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Thanks for the feedback, Beard and Scatter. My big concern was whether Rage combat features could stack with others, and it seems we're good with that outside of spell casting and concentration effects (which is sort of moot with this guy as you'll see). I do like the idea of Transmutation as one way a Wizard could explore "hulking out" for a more pure Dr. Banner concept. I had contemplated a Sorcerer/blaster route for this character but am opting for a more a "somewhat subtler" build.
To lay out what I'm getting at is we have a Hobgoblin (wait, Hobgoblins don't see the point in art and culture ... wait for it). He started out as a Wizard who took archaeologist as his background and took War Magic at second level. Basically he's been tasked by his Hobgoblin nation's version of the CIA to range the world searching for magics that will aid their nation's "security effort." Think Indiana Jones as played by Worf on Star Trek with a little Garek from Deep Space Nine when he lightens up (an Indiana Jones that would be totally cool with the Pentagon keeping the Ark in some secret warehouse). After War Caster and its Tactical Wit, Whisper Bard seemed to make sense for a "spy" that's focused on cultivating lore as leads to potential power grabs for his people ... plus he's adopted as his "cover" the role of manager for a party that's literally a traveling band consisting of two other bards, a barbarian, and a rogue, most of whom adventure to find more lore to deliver to their audiences. So he's seen the power of Bardic lore based inspiration, etc. ... and has literally weaponized it. Through the Barbarian and an arc among her people, he has become fascinated by rage (kinda like David Banner come to think of it) and his "dip" represents considerable time gaining acceptance among the Barbarians people to be introduced to the primal paths ... with the intention that he can bring the Primal Paths back to his people and cultivate a rage driven warrior sect ... for the defense of his people.
I know Rage may negate some of the benefits of War Magic aside from tactical wit, but actually most of his spell list is largely divination to aid with exploration and study and spy mode. So detect thoughts, identify, hold person, etc. Sure he's got combat cantrips and he's curious about magical mass destruction but his own personal magic use is more a means for information and understanding.
After the dip with Barbarian, not sure how far I'll go. I think ultimately whispers may be the dominant class despite the initial Wizard step.
But yeah, across the board, Bards are fun. I only had exposure to the class really in AD&D (I don't think they made it as a full class into 2e) and they seemed more a "concept" you could accomplish after having literally done it all in game. 5e's approach is better, and I'd argue one of the more diverse sets of options out there.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Just to add some new information to account for new publications.
Now, since the release of Tasha’s Cauldron, there is a feat you can take to gain two Sorcery Points and two Metamagic Options. So with that feat and a 2 level dip into Sorcerer, you actually get an additional SP over the 3 level dip, and without as big an impact on the Bard progression. But picking the right time to take that second level is rough because the Bard stuff is all so good, especially Whispers. (I personally recommend Divine Soul, but that’s mostly because I dislike the Subclasses in Tasha’s so immensely.)
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Something I found very fun for my whispers bars was a level 1-2 dip into warlock, specifically Great Old One pact. As a level one ability "Awakened Mind" let's you communicate telepathically with anyone within 30ft regardless of language. This combined with metamagic adopt subtle spell (silent friends or suggestion spell) is brilliant for social encounters. Want to influence a king in the middle of court and not be caught and executed? No problem. So much fun to be had with this combo.