Well, It's not that I think Spell-Storing Item should be removed, I just think it's problematic as it's currently written. I think a better way of implementing it would be to have it so it it can store more spells in more items, let's say 3 different spells in 3 different items, and have each item have 2-3 uses each. That way they can pass those 3 items (and their spells) around to more than one party member at a time, and also allow the use of less commonly used spells without making it feel like a waste, plus this presents the opportunity to change Spell-Storing Item so that it can grow in power as the Artificer levels rather than sticking it near the end at level 18; instead it could start at a lower level with a single spell/item, then gradually increase to 2 and later 3 as the Artificer levels. I would also think it would be prudent to change the item requirements on the feature so it can be used on more than just weapons and items that can be used as a Focus, I think that's too limiting personally.
I'd really like to see it as something like: Each long rest you can store first-level spells in a number equal to Int modifier (min. 1); each has 1 use and only lasts until next long rest. Getting that early probably wouldn't be too powerful and would let it grow in spell-level and uses over time. Or something like Int measures the slots you can store; i.e +3 Int mod lets you store three first-level or one third-level (assuming you can cast them). Regardless, having a number of spells that you can use only a few times seems much more interesting that one spell you can use a high number of times.
Well, It's not that I think Spell-Storing Item should be removed, I just think it's problematic as it's currently written. I think a better way of implementing it would be to have it so it it can store more spells in more items, let's say 3 different spells in 3 different items, and have each item have 2-3 uses each. That way they can pass those 3 items (and their spells) around to more than one party member at a time, and also allow the use of less commonly used spells without making it feel like a waste, plus this presents the opportunity to change Spell-Storing Item so that it can grow in power as the Artificer levels rather than sticking it near the end at level 18; instead it could start at a lower level with a single spell/item, then gradually increase to 2 and later 3 as the Artificer levels. I would also think it would be prudent to change the item requirements on the feature so it can be used on more than just weapons and items that can be used as a Focus, I think that's too limiting personally.
I'd really like to see it as something like: Each long rest you can store first-level spells in a number equal to Int modifier (min. 1); each has 1 use and only lasts until next long rest. Getting that early probably wouldn't be too powerful and would let it grow in spell-level and uses over time. Or something like Int measures the slots you can store; i.e +3 Int mod lets you store three first-level or one third-level (assuming you can cast them). Regardless, having a number of spells that you can use only a few times seems much more interesting that one spell you can use a high number of times.
I like this mechanics wording. What do you think of the balance of the following?
Your Int Mod defines both the number of items you can have storing spells and your highest spell slot level (subject to spell level known) While your Proficiency bonus defines the amount of “points” you have to allocate to these slots. Which could double at 10 and maybe triple at 18?
I know without spell slots spent this is heavily ramping the spell slots of the class but it could be balanced as we all want a 2/3 caster. Could also swap the prof and int mod parts.
I think we might want to avoid tying many class features to proficiency bonus. I only say that because Proficiency scales with overall character level, not just the levels in one class, and I'm not sure if that would present a balance problem or not..
I like this mechanics wording. What do you think of the balance of the following?
Your Int Mod defines both the number of items you can have storing spells and your highest spell slot level (subject to spell level known) While your Proficiency bonus defines the amount of “points” you have to allocate to these slots. Which could double at 10 and maybe triple at 18?
I know without spell slots spent this is heavily ramping the spell slots of the class but it could be balanced as we all want a 2/3 caster. Could also swap the prof and int mod parts.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "points" (like the int is the max and you allocate the exact numbers?), but Artificer levels would likely work better than Proficiency, since as Mezzurah pointed out that would scale off true level and would kind of encourage just minimum investment in artificer. Also, tbh it really doesn't take all the much to reach "2/3" caster level. For example, at level 3 you have 16 Int so +3. Which means you get 3 first level spells stored, on top of your normal 3 as a half-caster. That is the same total number of slots as a wizard although you don't get second level spells. At 5th you might essentially have 4/4 spells to their 4/3/2. You do get out-scaled eventually, but that is expected and it is pretty potent early on.
As is spell-storing can't really be pushed because there isn't a lot of room left since the class is being pulled by so many different things (spellcasting/storage, item creation, subclass). A beefier spell-storage system would likely have to cut back on the active casting system to avoid overload; for example, having the artificer be a limited caster (warlock system) with some tweaks might allow for roughly the current spellcasting potency but maybe with more flavor. Alternatively, cut the spell-storing entirely from the base class and build a "magismith" subclass to give more support to the concept. Or just have the stored spell cost spell slots.
I think we might want to avoid tying many class features to proficiency bonus. I only say that because Proficiency scales with overall character level, not just the levels in one class, and I'm not sure if that would present a balance problem or not..
Let me walk through my example better.
I was trying to say Int Mod items storing up to Int Mod spell level. For each spell level you put into an item you spend some points and those points are defined by the Proficiency bonus, at first this is equal to your Proficiency bonus, but on reaching level 10 in the class this is twice your Proficiency and at level 18 three times your Proficiency.
For example if you are level 9 with +3 Int, +4 Prof and Max spell level 3, you can have 1lvl3+1lvl1 or 2lvl1+1lvl2 or 2lvl2. But once you hit level 10 you have 2*Prof to allocate meaning you can have 2lvl3+1lvl2.
Meaning you get some amount if you dip Artificer but it scales a lot by staying in the class longer. The only concern is whether people would be okay with a half caster who could sometimes have as much or more lower level spell slots than their full caster friends. But you never get the upper tier spells only ever up to 5th level. (And I don’t much like my own wording)
I keep seeing people say they wish the turret lasted longer because it only lasts an hour, but the turret actually only lasts 10 minutes?
And it can be healed with mending, but that causes its own problems because mending takes a minute to cast. I'm not going to spend 10 rounds with no action for 2d6 healing, and I'm not going to spend multiple minutes out of combat healing the turret to full when doing so will waste the remaining time of the turret. It's actually so bad that I feel like I must have misread it, but every time I go back to check it's still bad.
I keep seeing people say they wish the turret lasted longer because it only lasts an hour, but the turret actually only lasts 10 minutes?
And it can be healed with mending, but that causes its own problems because mending takes a minute to cast. I'm not going to spend 10 rounds with no action for 2d6 healing, and I'm not going to spend multiple minutes out of combat healing the turret to full when doing so will waste the remaining time of the turret. It's actually so bad that I feel like I must have misread it, but every time I go back to check it's still bad.
I feel the turret actually gets worse the more that it is read, the Artillerist saving grace is its level 6 ability to craft the wand and get Int mod damage out of it. And that gets overshadowed by the Spell Arcane Weapon and a light crossbow just add the feat crossbow expert and why would you use a wand except for when your out of crossbow bolts.
Remember, you can cause the Turret to explode for 3d6 force damage in a 10-foot radius as an Action. So a 10 minute duration is a good way to end a fight. You should be able to get 1-2, maybe even 3 fights out of it before needing to make it go Kaboom. :)
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
The subclass spell list makes a lot of sense when you think of it as casting with tools.
I like the homunculus, mostly because I read heirs if ash. Turrets seem out if place to be a core feature.
To that effect I would suggest that pets become another option for arcane infusions. May have to adjust the numbers. I would also go down the warlock route and have some infusions tied to subclass.
For artillerists, I would give them this as part of their core.
Custom Job
At the end of a long rest you can modify one ranged weapon.
It can use your intelligence for to hit and damage.
It no longer has the loading property if it had that property.
The weapon can be your spell casting focus i.e you can flavour fireball as a custom round from your weapon
The subclass spell lists are fine, though I'm slightly grumpy that the Alchemist doesn't have a spell like fireball to fit my desire for a mad chemist ever on the verge of blowing himself up with his concoctions.
Oddly enough, I share a similar opinion on the pets, but flipped around; The homunculus feels out of place, and the turret feels like a good (if oddly scaling) fit. I was thinking it might be better to see them as an infusion, but I'm hesitant to suggest that because I'm uncertain how to balance that myself (perhaps as a beefed up version of the Familiar spell?)
Also, I don't remember there being any subclass specific invocations for Warlocks outside of some Unearthed Arcana. Did you mean options tied to pacts? Because as it stands there isn't an equivalent for Artificers (though I am planning on suggesting something similar as a choice between either Multiattack or Potent Spellcasting at level 5 instead of having watered down versions of both at levels 5 and 6)
I like your Custom Job idea. I can see it going with the Artillerist, though I could also see it going towards a reworked (and renamed, since apparently people have trouble accepting the concept) Gunsmith.
I am kicking myself right now for just now thinking of this as a feature for the Alchemist subclass:
Equivalent Exchange: You can change raw materials from one form to another, be it lead into gold, gold into gemstones, etc. The end product of this change must be of equivalent or lower value to the original material (for example, 10 gold's worth of lead can be changed into 10 gold, but not into 10 platinum). This feature cannot be used to make an item into a finished product, such as a lump of iron into a dagger.
I am kicking myself right now for just now thinking of this as a feature for the Alchemist subclass:
Equivalent Exchange: You can change raw materials from one form to another, be it lead into gold, gold into gemstones, etc. The end product of this change must be of equivalent or lower value to the original material (for example, 10 gold's worth of lead can be changed into 10 gold, but not into 10 platinum). This feature cannot be used to make an item into a finished product, such as a lump of iron into a dagger.
Great ribbon ability. I was thinking something about permanent replicated magic items for core Artificer over long time period as a high level ribbon. But couldn’t think of a nice ribbon for Arterialist.
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Even the Homunculus has more hit points than a Beast Master's animal companion.
I'd really like to see it as something like: Each long rest you can store first-level spells in a number equal to Int modifier (min. 1); each has 1 use and only lasts until next long rest. Getting that early probably wouldn't be too powerful and would let it grow in spell-level and uses over time. Or something like Int measures the slots you can store; i.e +3 Int mod lets you store three first-level or one third-level (assuming you can cast them). Regardless, having a number of spells that you can use only a few times seems much more interesting that one spell you can use a high number of times.
I like this mechanics wording. What do you think of the balance of the following?
Your Int Mod defines both the number of items you can have storing spells and your highest spell slot level (subject to spell level known) While your Proficiency bonus defines the amount of “points” you have to allocate to these slots. Which could double at 10 and maybe triple at 18?
I know without spell slots spent this is heavily ramping the spell slots of the class but it could be balanced as we all want a 2/3 caster. Could also swap the prof and int mod parts.
I think we might want to avoid tying many class features to proficiency bonus. I only say that because Proficiency scales with overall character level, not just the levels in one class, and I'm not sure if that would present a balance problem or not..
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "points" (like the int is the max and you allocate the exact numbers?), but Artificer levels would likely work better than Proficiency, since as Mezzurah pointed out that would scale off true level and would kind of encourage just minimum investment in artificer. Also, tbh it really doesn't take all the much to reach "2/3" caster level. For example, at level 3 you have 16 Int so +3. Which means you get 3 first level spells stored, on top of your normal 3 as a half-caster. That is the same total number of slots as a wizard although you don't get second level spells. At 5th you might essentially have 4/4 spells to their 4/3/2. You do get out-scaled eventually, but that is expected and it is pretty potent early on.
As is spell-storing can't really be pushed because there isn't a lot of room left since the class is being pulled by so many different things (spellcasting/storage, item creation, subclass). A beefier spell-storage system would likely have to cut back on the active casting system to avoid overload; for example, having the artificer be a limited caster (warlock system) with some tweaks might allow for roughly the current spellcasting potency but maybe with more flavor. Alternatively, cut the spell-storing entirely from the base class and build a "magismith" subclass to give more support to the concept. Or just have the stored spell cost spell slots.
Let me walk through my example better.
I was trying to say Int Mod items storing up to Int Mod spell level. For each spell level you put into an item you spend some points and those points are defined by the Proficiency bonus, at first this is equal to your Proficiency bonus, but on reaching level 10 in the class this is twice your Proficiency and at level 18 three times your Proficiency.
For example if you are level 9 with +3 Int, +4 Prof and Max spell level 3, you can have 1lvl3+1lvl1 or 2lvl1+1lvl2 or 2lvl2. But once you hit level 10 you have 2*Prof to allocate meaning you can have 2lvl3+1lvl2.
Meaning you get some amount if you dip Artificer but it scales a lot by staying in the class longer. The only concern is whether people would be okay with a half caster who could sometimes have as much or more lower level spell slots than their full caster friends. But you never get the upper tier spells only ever up to 5th level. (And I don’t much like my own wording)
Or a familiar...
- Stu
#6321 on Discord.
I keep seeing people say they wish the turret lasted longer because it only lasts an hour, but the turret actually only lasts 10 minutes?
And it can be healed with mending, but that causes its own problems because mending takes a minute to cast. I'm not going to spend 10 rounds with no action for 2d6 healing, and I'm not going to spend multiple minutes out of combat healing the turret to full when doing so will waste the remaining time of the turret. It's actually so bad that I feel like I must have misread it, but every time I go back to check it's still bad.
An old shoe killed by a dog chewing on it has more hp then a familiar.
I feel the turret actually gets worse the more that it is read, the Artillerist saving grace is its level 6 ability to craft the wand and get Int mod damage out of it. And that gets overshadowed by the Spell Arcane Weapon and a light crossbow just add the feat crossbow expert and why would you use a wand except for when your out of crossbow bolts.
Oh my god that version is a million times better. This revised version really sucks.
Remember, you can cause the Turret to explode for 3d6 force damage in a 10-foot radius as an Action. So a 10 minute duration is a good way to end a fight. You should be able to get 1-2, maybe even 3 fights out of it before needing to make it go Kaboom. :)
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
After level 5, if you're in combat when it's going to expire, then it would be more productive to just let it expire and make two attacks instead.
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I like the direction of the new artificer.
The subclass spell list makes a lot of sense when you think of it as casting with tools.
I like the homunculus, mostly because I read heirs if ash. Turrets seem out if place to be a core feature.
To that effect I would suggest that pets become another option for arcane infusions. May have to adjust the numbers. I would also go down the warlock route and have some infusions tied to subclass.
For artillerists, I would give them this as part of their core.
Custom Job
At the end of a long rest you can modify one ranged weapon.
It can use your intelligence for to hit and damage.
It no longer has the loading property if it had that property.
The weapon can be your spell casting focus i.e you can flavour fireball as a custom round from your weapon
The subclass spell lists are fine, though I'm slightly grumpy that the Alchemist doesn't have a spell like fireball to fit my desire for a mad chemist ever on the verge of blowing himself up with his concoctions.
Oddly enough, I share a similar opinion on the pets, but flipped around; The homunculus feels out of place, and the turret feels like a good (if oddly scaling) fit. I was thinking it might be better to see them as an infusion, but I'm hesitant to suggest that because I'm uncertain how to balance that myself (perhaps as a beefed up version of the Familiar spell?)
Also, I don't remember there being any subclass specific invocations for Warlocks outside of some Unearthed Arcana. Did you mean options tied to pacts? Because as it stands there isn't an equivalent for Artificers (though I am planning on suggesting something similar as a choice between either Multiattack or Potent Spellcasting at level 5 instead of having watered down versions of both at levels 5 and 6)
I like your Custom Job idea. I can see it going with the Artillerist, though I could also see it going towards a reworked (and renamed, since apparently people have trouble accepting the concept) Gunsmith.
How do i get the artificer into my content to choose as a class on dnd beyond? Is it there and im just overlooking it?
They're working on it.
I am kicking myself right now for just now thinking of this as a feature for the Alchemist subclass:
Equivalent Exchange: You can change raw materials from one form to another, be it lead into gold, gold into gemstones, etc. The end product of this change must be of equivalent or lower value to the original material (for example, 10 gold's worth of lead can be changed into 10 gold, but not into 10 platinum). This feature cannot be used to make an item into a finished product, such as a lump of iron into a dagger.
It's being worked on currently and will be available soon. :)
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Great ribbon ability. I was thinking something about permanent replicated magic items for core Artificer over long time period as a high level ribbon. But couldn’t think of a nice ribbon for Arterialist.