So in our games we have only had a few barbarians and they have all gone Totem Warrior and Bear.
Looking at Path of the Berserker I would like to take it but the Frenzy ability just sounds bad. One extra attack as a bonus action but take a level of exhaustion in trade? Seems like the penalty is way too steep. Especially since a level dip in Fighter or two in Ranger will yield two weapon fighting and a better use of a bonus action.
Am I off base here? Anyone have some experiences they can share with this path? Any suggestions for house rules?
I think it is easy to underestimate the effect of an additional attack with whatever your go-to, probably two-handed, weapon is, and easy to overestimate how bad a level (or even two) of exhaustion is.
The player that had a berserker in one of my campaigns used frenzy in encounters that seemed like they'd be a tough fight, and would tear through things in short order (took down a vrock by himself in 3 rounds at level 5, using a dagger +1 instead of his usual greataxe, for example).
When it came to the effects of exhaustion, disadvantage on ability checks isn't that much of a problem when you can cancel it out on the checks you are most likely to be making by raging again (or using a crowbar, since most of the ability checks the barbarian was making in my campaign actually ended up being to open doors and chests), and at a little higher level you get advantage on initiative checks as part of a class feature that happens to also help you out with having missed important perception checks and getting surprised as a result. Once he was high enough level to have higher movement speed, he didn't mind racking up 2 levels of exhaustion in a day because half his speed was still pretty much as fast as the dwarf in the party.
As for multi-classing for a "better" use of your bonus action, don't forget that however many levels you put in another class is delaying having more rages per/day, higher rage damage, and other cool barbarian features like brutal critical by that many levels.
Trick is when to use it and when to not use it. Mindless Rage is an amazing ability. So while Frenzy might be more situational and not something you want to do in every combat (you could for example use dual weapons and get a third attack without frenzy), some of the other abilities make up for this.
As for multi-classing for a "better" use of your bonus action, don't forget that however many levels you put in another class is delaying having more rages per/day, higher rage damage, and other cool barbarian features like brutal critical by that many levels.
That and Barbarian has arguably the best capstone trait in the game (unless you count the broken as hell Mystic capstone, but that's UA): +4 to Strength and Constitution and increases the maximum of those scores by 4 as well. So if you DO go that high in levels, you're missing out on the best capstone in official play.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The Barbarian with path of the berzerk is a beast. I play a Dwarven Berserker and with the kombination of the skills, especially the frenzy, you can easily fight allone against Monsters or enemys that are stronger than you.
Wielding a great axe is the best choice. First turn, use the Bonusaction to go into rage, at the Second turn attack recklessly with frenzy. Later, you have 3 advantage attacks with a great axe, bonus on DMG and resistance against piercing, bludgeoning and slashing dmg. With this abilitys, it is not so bad, that there is advantage on attacks against you. And the effects of the exhaustion are not as bad as you use your skills.
i would Never use frenzy more than 2 times and only for very strong enemys
Can't say that I have been convinced here. Sounds like it may just depend on how the DM manages rests.
In a game that maybe only has one short rest in between long rests the frenzy ability doesn't appear to be an issue. Not a very satisfying answer for me.
I was considering a house rule that would allow a Path of the Berserker barbarian to recover a level of exhaustion per short or long rest instead of just long. Any opinions on how this might impact the game? Exhaustion levels haven't come up in my games so it doesn't seem unbalancing on the surface...
Like you already mentioned, all of that will depend on how the GM manages rests. Berserker is evidently built to shine during boss fights, so bringing that power along to regular fights will definitely shift things around.
I would also add that you can choose whether to enter a frenzied rage or a generic rage. I like this for multiclassing: take 3 levels of Barb, go path of Berserker, and now I always have a trump card that my fighter/Paladin/ranger has to fret over: do I chance it that 5 more rounds of of +1 attacks will end the fight and be worth a 3rd level of exhaustion, use the base rage to tank for my teammates, or get by on my other classes' abilities and save that frenzied rage for later.
And I love that kind of pushing my limits mechanic, it feels like Goku's Kaio-Kin from early DBZ.
I would also add that you can choose whether to enter a frenzied rage or a generic rage. I like this for multiclassing: take 3 levels of Barb, go path of Berserker, and now I always have a trump card that my fighter/Paladin/ranger has to fret over: do I chance it that 5 more rounds of of +1 attacks will end the fight and be worth a 3rd level of exhaustion, use the base rage to tank for my teammates, or get by on my other classes' abilities and save that frenzied rage for later.
And I love that kind of pushing my limits mechanic, it feels like Goku's Kaio-Kin from early DBZ.
Can I also suggest to Berserker players a couple things:
- Get Sentinel instead of Great Weapon Master. You don’t need the Bonus action attack when you get it for free while Frenzied, and wield a shield in your off hand for the extra AC. You also get additional attacks when people don’t target you, which most Barbarians won’t get. This means you can actually tank as well when you need to. You could even go with a Dex and Con build to maximize your AC even more if you needed to.
- Resistance to Fear is absolutely amazing for a class that usually has poor wisdom. No amount of attack bonus, advantage, or damage will help if you’re unable to get close enough to use it. This is the actual meat and potatoes for this class. My favorite tactic against a high-damage Barb is literally just Fear or Charm because it’s so simple.
Ancient thread, but I wouldn't touch a Zerk with a 10 foot pole. Every other barb is turned on without penalty, every single rage.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm relatively inexperienced with D and D. I used the character generator to create a barbarian. However, it only shows Path of Beserksr, not path of Totem. What am I missing?
The character generator only has a single default option available for each class. To get access to the full PHB, you'll need to purchase it from the Marketplace.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
the only free content is the Basic Rules + Elemental Evil companion. So there is only one subclass of each class for free.
If you want a different one, the cheapest is to just buy the subclass you need for $1.99. Note that this does not automatically grant non-SRD spells that the class might be using.
And many of them get better as you level so that they'll eventually eclipse the power of Frenzy's bonus attack.
Everything except resistance to fear, which nullifies almost every Barbarian in high level campaigns. It actually balances out very well at higher levels.
And many of them get better as you level so that they'll eventually eclipse the power of Frenzy's bonus attack.
Everything except resistance to fear, which nullifies almost every Barbarian in high level campaigns. It actually balances out very well at higher levels.
Ancient thread, but I wouldn't touch a Zerk with a 10 foot pole. Every other barb is turned on without penalty, every single rage.
You can turn on Berserk without penalty with a Berserker too. And later on, if a Cleric is in the party, you have way more flexibility.
You can use a class without using its subclass' main ability. But if you are actively motivated to do that, its probably a bad subclass.
And even if you have a cleric in the party, its an incredibly over the top fix for your subclass by making them blow high level spell slots and hundreds of gold to cast greater restoration on you a few times each session. You may as well get your friend to play a wizard with Haste to cast on you and just play any other barbarian class for more passive benefits. That would "fix" the issue 4 lvls earlier, albeit while taking up the wizard's concentration.
And many of them get better as you level so that they'll eventually eclipse the power of Frenzy's bonus attack.
Everything except resistance to fear, which nullifies almost every Barbarian in high level campaigns. It actually balances out very well at higher levels.
Ancient thread, but I wouldn't touch a Zerk with a 10 foot pole. Every other barb is turned on without penalty, every single rage.
You can turn on Berserk without penalty with a Berserker too. And later on, if a Cleric is in the party, you have way more flexibility.
you're ignoring the "every single rage" part of my statement. Also, you shouldn't need a cleric to blow through spell slots in order to use your class features. Berserkers suck.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
And many of them get better as you level so that they'll eventually eclipse the power of Frenzy's bonus attack.
Everything except resistance to fear, which nullifies almost every Barbarian in high level campaigns. It actually balances out very well at higher levels.
Ancient thread, but I wouldn't touch a Zerk with a 10 foot pole. Every other barb is turned on without penalty, every single rage.
You can turn on Berserk without penalty with a Berserker too. And later on, if a Cleric is in the party, you have way more flexibility.
You can use a class without using its subclass' main ability. But if you are actively motivated to do that, its probably a bad subclass.
And even if you have a cleric in the party, its an incredibly over the top fix for your subclass by making them blow high level spell slots and hundreds of gold to cast greater restoration on you a few times each session. You may as well get your friend to play a wizard with Haste to cast on you and just play any other barbarian class for more passive benefits. That would "fix" the issue 4 lvls earlier, albeit while taking up the wizard's concentration.
Thats just your opinion - like I said, the real meat and potatoes for Zerk players is not Frenzy, it’s the resistance to fear and charm. But keep going on about how Frenzy is the only ability of the class worth mentioning...
Greater Restoration is an alternative - usually most Berserkers would just wait until the BBEG or high-level battle that they want the extra attacks. But then again, in these “examples” people throw out somehow the Berserker can either never use it at all or they use it four times per long rest.
From a DM perspective, the Barb PCs I see quit around 8-10th level because they see more status effects and wis/int saves being challenged and they’re usually way too susceptible. What fun is a Barb if you’re stuck in Fear for 10 rounds?
If all you play is 1-7, I agree - it’s underpowered. From 10-20? It pulls ahead nicely.
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So in our games we have only had a few barbarians and they have all gone Totem Warrior and Bear.
Looking at Path of the Berserker I would like to take it but the Frenzy ability just sounds bad. One extra attack as a bonus action but take a level of exhaustion in trade? Seems like the penalty is way too steep. Especially since a level dip in Fighter or two in Ranger will yield two weapon fighting and a better use of a bonus action.
Am I off base here? Anyone have some experiences they can share with this path? Any suggestions for house rules?
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
I think it is easy to underestimate the effect of an additional attack with whatever your go-to, probably two-handed, weapon is, and easy to overestimate how bad a level (or even two) of exhaustion is.
The player that had a berserker in one of my campaigns used frenzy in encounters that seemed like they'd be a tough fight, and would tear through things in short order (took down a vrock by himself in 3 rounds at level 5, using a dagger +1 instead of his usual greataxe, for example).
When it came to the effects of exhaustion, disadvantage on ability checks isn't that much of a problem when you can cancel it out on the checks you are most likely to be making by raging again (or using a crowbar, since most of the ability checks the barbarian was making in my campaign actually ended up being to open doors and chests), and at a little higher level you get advantage on initiative checks as part of a class feature that happens to also help you out with having missed important perception checks and getting surprised as a result. Once he was high enough level to have higher movement speed, he didn't mind racking up 2 levels of exhaustion in a day because half his speed was still pretty much as fast as the dwarf in the party.
As for multi-classing for a "better" use of your bonus action, don't forget that however many levels you put in another class is delaying having more rages per/day, higher rage damage, and other cool barbarian features like brutal critical by that many levels.
Trick is when to use it and when to not use it. Mindless Rage is an amazing ability. So while Frenzy might be more situational and not something you want to do in every combat (you could for example use dual weapons and get a third attack without frenzy), some of the other abilities make up for this.
That and Barbarian has arguably the best capstone trait in the game (unless you count the broken as hell Mystic capstone, but that's UA): +4 to Strength and Constitution and increases the maximum of those scores by 4 as well. So if you DO go that high in levels, you're missing out on the best capstone in official play.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Also,
You don't *have* to multiclass to get Two Weapon Fighting from another class.
You just need to either:
A) Wield 2 Light weapons
B) Take the feat Dual Wielder.
C) Use a Polearm/Quarterstaff and take Polearm Master
The Barbarian with path of the berzerk is a beast. I play a Dwarven Berserker and with the kombination of the skills, especially the frenzy, you can easily fight allone against Monsters or enemys that are stronger than you.
Wielding a great axe is the best choice. First turn, use the Bonusaction to go into rage, at the Second turn attack recklessly with frenzy. Later, you have 3 advantage attacks with a great axe, bonus on DMG and resistance against piercing, bludgeoning and slashing dmg. With this abilitys, it is not so bad, that there is advantage on attacks against you. And the effects of the exhaustion are not as bad as you use your skills.
i would Never use frenzy more than 2 times and only for very strong enemys
Thanks to everyone who has posted...
Can't say that I have been convinced here. Sounds like it may just depend on how the DM manages rests.
In a game that maybe only has one short rest in between long rests the frenzy ability doesn't appear to be an issue. Not a very satisfying answer for me.
I was considering a house rule that would allow a Path of the Berserker barbarian to recover a level of exhaustion per short or long rest instead of just long. Any opinions on how this might impact the game? Exhaustion levels haven't come up in my games so it doesn't seem unbalancing on the surface...
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
Like you already mentioned, all of that will depend on how the GM manages rests. Berserker is evidently built to shine during boss fights, so bringing that power along to regular fights will definitely shift things around.
I have a barbarian exctly like that multiclassed with wizard (Divintation), and he literally never misses.
I would also add that you can choose whether to enter a frenzied rage or a generic rage. I like this for multiclassing: take 3 levels of Barb, go path of Berserker, and now I always have a trump card that my fighter/Paladin/ranger has to fret over: do I chance it that 5 more rounds of of +1 attacks will end the fight and be worth a 3rd level of exhaustion, use the base rage to tank for my teammates, or get by on my other classes' abilities and save that frenzied rage for later.
And I love that kind of pushing my limits mechanic, it feels like Goku's Kaio-Kin from early DBZ.
Can I also suggest to Berserker players a couple things:
- Get Sentinel instead of Great Weapon Master. You don’t need the Bonus action attack when you get it for free while Frenzied, and wield a shield in your off hand for the extra AC. You also get additional attacks when people don’t target you, which most Barbarians won’t get. This means you can actually tank as well when you need to. You could even go with a Dex and Con build to maximize your AC even more if you needed to.
- Resistance to Fear is absolutely amazing for a class that usually has poor wisdom. No amount of attack bonus, advantage, or damage will help if you’re unable to get close enough to use it. This is the actual meat and potatoes for this class. My favorite tactic against a high-damage Barb is literally just Fear or Charm because it’s so simple.
Ancient thread, but I wouldn't touch a Zerk with a 10 foot pole. Every other barb is turned on without penalty, every single rage.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
And many of them get better as you level so that they'll eventually eclipse the power of Frenzy's bonus attack.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm relatively inexperienced with D and D. I used the character generator to create a barbarian. However, it only shows Path of Beserksr, not path of Totem. What am I missing?
The character generator only has a single default option available for each class. To get access to the full PHB, you'll need to purchase it from the Marketplace.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
the only free content is the Basic Rules + Elemental Evil companion. So there is only one subclass of each class for free.
If you want a different one, the cheapest is to just buy the subclass you need for $1.99. Note that this does not automatically grant non-SRD spells that the class might be using.
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Everything except resistance to fear, which nullifies almost every Barbarian in high level campaigns. It actually balances out very well at higher levels.
You can turn on Berserk without penalty with a Berserker too. And later on, if a Cleric is in the party, you have way more flexibility.
You can use a class without using its subclass' main ability. But if you are actively motivated to do that, its probably a bad subclass.
And even if you have a cleric in the party, its an incredibly over the top fix for your subclass by making them blow high level spell slots and hundreds of gold to cast greater restoration on you a few times each session. You may as well get your friend to play a wizard with Haste to cast on you and just play any other barbarian class for more passive benefits. That would "fix" the issue 4 lvls earlier, albeit while taking up the wizard's concentration.
you're ignoring the "every single rage" part of my statement. Also, you shouldn't need a cleric to blow through spell slots in order to use your class features. Berserkers suck.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Thats just your opinion - like I said, the real meat and potatoes for Zerk players is not Frenzy, it’s the resistance to fear and charm. But keep going on about how Frenzy is the only ability of the class worth mentioning...
Greater Restoration is an alternative - usually most Berserkers would just wait until the BBEG or high-level battle that they want the extra attacks. But then again, in these “examples” people throw out somehow the Berserker can either never use it at all or they use it four times per long rest.
From a DM perspective, the Barb PCs I see quit around 8-10th level because they see more status effects and wis/int saves being challenged and they’re usually way too susceptible. What fun is a Barb if you’re stuck in Fear for 10 rounds?
If all you play is 1-7, I agree - it’s underpowered. From 10-20? It pulls ahead nicely.