When looking at the Barbarian subclasses compared to others, I noticed that every class has a subclass that casts spells a EXECPT barbarian. My question is, what if there was a barb subclass that could cast magic. What would that look like? Where would the magic be derived from? What are your ideas?
I'd go with a shamanistic approach to magic for a barbarian subclass.
So that's sort of nature based, but more about the spirits of the land than a druidic approach, which is more about life energies of nature. That's my take anyways.
Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Storm Herald use magic for their class features. Also, both Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Spirit Guardian are able to cast at least 1 spell.
Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Storm Herald use magic for their class features. Also, both Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Spirit Guardian are able to cast at least 1 spell.
I know, but I meant a class that is not as spell restricting.
The main problem with a full-on spellcasting Barbarian, besides the fact that you're veering dangerously close to druid and ranger territory, is that they can't cast or concentrate on spells while raging. Raging is kind of the whole point of the class.
I could see a basis for a Barb with a very limited spell list, focusing primarily on spells that either make magical melee attacks or add on-hit effects to the next weapon attack. I assume this is kind of how the Paladin and Eldritch Knight end up playing? Ranger gets into this territory too.
I feel like the Bladesingers mechanics act similarly to barbarian rage with the full complement of spells.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I could see a basis for a Barb with a very limited spell list, focusing primarily on spells that either make magical melee attacks or add on-hit effects to the next weapon attack. I assume this is kind of how the Paladin and Eldritch Knight end up playing? Ranger gets into this territory too.
You can actually do this with a Hexblade Warlock multiclass dip. It's pretty useful, especially since a lot of hexblade features are still usable while raging.
Are you thinking of a melee barbarian who has access to magic to boost their combat prowess? Or are you thinking of a spellcaster who has the ability to overchannel their magic for greater destructive effect?
If the former, I would just play an eldritch knight. Sure, they don't technically have "rage", but it's a good combo of melee/magic. Or maybe just dual class the barbarian with a few levels of druid.
If you're thinking of the latter... well... that's a great idea! I would love the idea of a sorcerer subclass that uses a touch of the evoker's Overchannel ability and a touch of the wild magic unpredictability, and a touch of just sheer reckless go-for-broke-and-burn-it-all-down spellcasting!
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Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
I made a Spirit Shaman subclass for barbarians. It uses the druid spell list (half caster rate) and has a few spell-like abilities that can be used during raging. The draw back is that there are a lot of druid spells that require concentration and raging cancels that, so it keeps it fairly well-balanced I think. You can take a look at it here:
Like InquisitiveCoder said, spell-casting is anathema to the central focus of the Barbarian class; not sub-classes, but the entire baseline. You cannot cast/concentrate while raging, and any sub-class/feature/feat that would bypass the restriction completely destroys the core design. Any middle-ground is likely too similar to existing classes/sub-classes.
Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Storm Herald use magic for their class features. Also, both Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Spirit Guardian are able to cast at least 1 spell.
I know, but I meant a class that is not as spell restricting.
Core design; Barbarian is a martial class, and WoTC will likely never (nor should they) change that. Barbarian has the highest hit die of all classes, and FAR more max HP than the "pure" casters; 50% more than Bard/Cleric/Druid, and 100% more than Sorcerer/Wizard. The martial classes that do have spell-casting sub-classes are highly restrictive for a reason (each level having 1/3rd the value for multi-class spell slot progression).
What I could see as possible would be a sub-class that gains more spell-like abilities, and/or features that augment rage. The main feature may be something like,
Primal Rage
Primal magic surges from your body, enhancing your physical prowess. While you're raging, your melee weapon attacks count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to non-magical attacks and damage.
And/or
Primal Fury
You have gained a small measure of control over the magical energies flowing through your body. When you enter your rage, pick one damage type from: Acid, Cold, Fire, Force, Lightning, Poison, or Thunder. While raging, when you add your Rage Damage to a damage roll, you gain an additional bonus equal to your Rage Damage. The damage type of this additional bonus is of the type chosen when entering rage.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I feel like primal fury there is very similar to zealot
It is. I just took that as an example feature modifying rage since that's the central focus of Barbarian sub-class design.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Are you thinking of a melee barbarian who has access to magic to boost their combat prowess? Or are you thinking of a spellcaster who has the ability to overchannel their magic for greater destructive effect?
If the former, I would just play an eldritch knight. Sure, they don't technically have "rage", but it's a good combo of melee/magic. Or maybe just dual class the barbarian with a few levels of druid.
If you're thinking of the latter... well... that's a great idea! I would love the idea of a sorcerer subclass that uses a touch of the evoker's Overchannel ability and a touch of the wild magic unpredictability, and a touch of just sheer reckless go-for-broke-and-burn-it-all-down spellcasting!
The main problem with a full-on spellcasting Barbarian, besides the fact that you're veering dangerously close to druid and ranger territory, is that they can't cast or concentrate on spells while raging. Raging is kind of the whole point of the class.
Just put a clause in the class that removes that restriction. Easy peasy.
3e had a prestige class called the Rage Mage that did precisely that. Oooh, oh, better ... our hypothetical spellcasting barb can ONLY cast spells while Raging!
THAT is something novel to work around. Also changes where you lean for their spell list and what they have in their arsenal. I would say no cantrips at all, just leveled spells if they can only cast while raging. Maybe use Constitution as their spellcasting modifier?
As an idea, something like mostly enchantment/illusion spells with the idea that the barbarian inflicts their rage/madness on their enemies in various ways?
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I was thinking more along the lines of laughing (cackling) maniacally rather than haha this is funny, like the laughter of a man who's mind has broken. Like the guy that laughs while in a bar brawl just loving the shit out of every bloody nose and broken bone.
Hypnotic Pattern would just be something strange coming forth from the 'rager's' mind, although *shrug* this was a pretty quick list.
Maybe add Necromancy onto the options, gives some interesting ones.
As I am now putting more thought into this the subclass could function similarly to the Berserker Path and when you rage you can choose to cast a spell at the beginning of the rage from the spell list and at the end of the rage you gain a point of exhaustion. Level 6 probably gain advantage on constitution saving throws to maintain concentration (combined with proficiency in constitution saving throws would be potent) to help them keep the spell going more often since they will be getting hit frequently.
Vampiric Touch doesn't really fit the theme but it would be fun...
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
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When looking at the Barbarian subclasses compared to others, I noticed that every class has a subclass that casts spells a EXECPT barbarian. My question is, what if there was a barb subclass that could cast magic. What would that look like? Where would the magic be derived from? What are your ideas?
I'd go with a shamanistic approach to magic for a barbarian subclass.
So that's sort of nature based, but more about the spirits of the land than a druidic approach, which is more about life energies of nature. That's my take anyways.
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Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Storm Herald use magic for their class features. Also, both Path of the Totem Warrior and Path of the Spirit Guardian are able to cast at least 1 spell.
I know, but I meant a class that is not as spell restricting.
The main problem with a full-on spellcasting Barbarian, besides the fact that you're veering dangerously close to druid and ranger territory, is that they can't cast or concentrate on spells while raging. Raging is kind of the whole point of the class.
I was in a game that converted from Pathfinder to 5e
The bloodrager (barbarian/arcane class) ended up becoming an Eldritch knight
I could see a basis for a Barb with a very limited spell list, focusing primarily on spells that either make magical melee attacks or add on-hit effects to the next weapon attack. I assume this is kind of how the Paladin and Eldritch Knight end up playing? Ranger gets into this territory too.
I feel like the Bladesingers mechanics act similarly to barbarian rage with the full complement of spells.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
You can actually do this with a Hexblade Warlock multiclass dip. It's pretty useful, especially since a lot of hexblade features are still usable while raging.
Are you thinking of a melee barbarian who has access to magic to boost their combat prowess? Or are you thinking of a spellcaster who has the ability to overchannel their magic for greater destructive effect?
If the former, I would just play an eldritch knight. Sure, they don't technically have "rage", but it's a good combo of melee/magic. Or maybe just dual class the barbarian with a few levels of druid.
If you're thinking of the latter... well... that's a great idea! I would love the idea of a sorcerer subclass that uses a touch of the evoker's Overchannel ability and a touch of the wild magic unpredictability, and a touch of just sheer reckless go-for-broke-and-burn-it-all-down spellcasting!
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Anzio Faro. Lvl 5 Prot. Aasimar Light Cleric.
I made a Spirit Shaman subclass for barbarians. It uses the druid spell list (half caster rate) and has a few spell-like abilities that can be used during raging. The draw back is that there are a lot of druid spells that require concentration and raging cancels that, so it keeps it fairly well-balanced I think. You can take a look at it here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/22442-path-of-the-spirit-shaman
Let me know what you think!
Like InquisitiveCoder said, spell-casting is anathema to the central focus of the Barbarian class; not sub-classes, but the entire baseline. You cannot cast/concentrate while raging, and any sub-class/feature/feat that would bypass the restriction completely destroys the core design. Any middle-ground is likely too similar to existing classes/sub-classes.
Core design; Barbarian is a martial class, and WoTC will likely never (nor should they) change that. Barbarian has the highest hit die of all classes, and FAR more max HP than the "pure" casters; 50% more than Bard/Cleric/Druid, and 100% more than Sorcerer/Wizard. The martial classes that do have spell-casting sub-classes are highly restrictive for a reason (each level having 1/3rd the value for multi-class spell slot progression).
What I could see as possible would be a sub-class that gains more spell-like abilities, and/or features that augment rage. The main feature may be something like,
And/or
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I feel like primal fury there is very similar to zealot
It is. I just took that as an example feature modifying rage since that's the central focus of Barbarian sub-class design.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The latter definitely.
Crazy idea
Barbarian magic user could be a rage chaos magic user, and maybe roll a random effects chart on attack once per round
The effects could be pretty minor, from 1 turn of disadvantage against the rager (or alternatively his allies), to 1 minute of paralyzed
Just put a clause in the class that removes that restriction. Easy peasy.
3e had a prestige class called the Rage Mage that did precisely that. Oooh, oh, better ... our hypothetical spellcasting barb can ONLY cast spells while Raging!
THAT is something novel to work around. Also changes where you lean for their spell list and what they have in their arsenal. I would say no cantrips at all, just leveled spells if they can only cast while raging. Maybe use Constitution as their spellcasting modifier?
As an idea, something like mostly enchantment/illusion spells with the idea that the barbarian inflicts their rage/madness on their enemies in various ways?
Bane, Command, Compelled Duel, Dissonant Whispers, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Crown of Madness, Hold Person, Blur, Phantasmal Force
Enemies Abound, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern
Confusion, Phantasmal Killer
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I like the idea, though I don't think tasha's hideous laughter really fits
Hypnotic pattern is questionable
I was thinking more along the lines of laughing (cackling) maniacally rather than haha this is funny, like the laughter of a man who's mind has broken. Like the guy that laughs while in a bar brawl just loving the shit out of every bloody nose and broken bone.
Hypnotic Pattern would just be something strange coming forth from the 'rager's' mind, although *shrug* this was a pretty quick list.
Maybe add Necromancy onto the options, gives some interesting ones.
Cause Fear
Blindness/Deafness
Bestow Curse, Vampiric Touch
Shadow of Moil
As I am now putting more thought into this the subclass could function similarly to the Berserker Path and when you rage you can choose to cast a spell at the beginning of the rage from the spell list and at the end of the rage you gain a point of exhaustion. Level 6 probably gain advantage on constitution saving throws to maintain concentration (combined with proficiency in constitution saving throws would be potent) to help them keep the spell going more often since they will be getting hit frequently.
Vampiric Touch doesn't really fit the theme but it would be fun...
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."