I've been creating a Barbarian for an Adventurers League game and while I am going to be running with a Strength based Barb, I want to hear your insights and persuasions and enticing me to create, run and role play a Dexterity based Barb instead.
To start off, I am a little concerned why a player would forfeit a lot of class abilities in order to chose a Dexterity based Barb.
If a player is going to sacrifice some major abilities in order to take the Dexterity route, then wouldn't another class just be a better option? Say Fighter/Rogue?
You should perhaps not play a DEX Barb... Basically because your rage will be not so good. You only gain much of the benefits while meeleeing using STR.
It would, however, be a great tank at meelee with a shield, though. But I don't think you'll make a barbarian to dodge all the time. You'll gonna eant to leap and yell that you "would like to rage".
I actually have kind of a DEX Barb in AL. Well, she's only 1 level of Barb, but she does currently sport a 19 AC butt naked, 21 with a shield. She is also a Rogue, so she mitigates damage further with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. And a Shield Guardian. But I digress.
A DEX base would be purely for higher tankiness, essentially. You essentially lose out on your Rage damage and the ability to use your Reckless Attack.
Coincidentally, I'm developing a character build for a Dex-based Barbarian. For optimization purposes, the Stout Halfling is best, especially since you can maximize the build with the tough Feat, which will add 40 hp by the time you hit level 20, but I used a Wood Elf with an Outlander background (forestry) to make it a lot more fun and thematic. I'm not going to share the whole thing here, because a group of us are trying to compile a system to release unconventional character builds for our readers to enjoy, not to mention that putting up the whole character sheet here would be a mess without some kind of readable format, but I can share a bit of the basal information that you can launch from. I used the standard array, and in here I'm including the Wood Elf's natural bonuses, so there's no need to add them:
Strength: 12 [1]
Dexterity: 16 [3]
Constitution: 15 [2]
Intelligence: 10 [0]
Wisdom: 14 [2]
Charisma: 8 [-1]
I chose to sack Charisma instead of Intelligence because it made more sense thematically that a Wood Elf Barbarian Outlander wouldn't do so well with others.
Skill Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, Nature, Perception, and Survival
Equipment: Scimitar, Shield, and 20 Darts
Again, more about theme than about optimization. A Wood Elf Barbarian with a rapier seems weird to me, especially with a shield, which helps bump the AC to 17 at first level.
Here's a quick rundown of my choices:
Primal Paths
Totem Spirit: Bear
Aspect of the Beast: Tiger (Acrobatics, Stealth)
Totemic Attunement: Eagle
Ability Score Increases:
Level 4: +2 Constitution
Level 8: +2 Constitution
Level 12: +1 Constitution, +1 Dexterity
Level 16: Feat: Resilient (Dexterity)
Level 19: +2 Dexterity
At level 20, you have an AC of 24 and 226 hit points, assuming you took the 7 the whole time. The max you can pull of is 312 hit points.
None of this is including magic items that boost AC, either. With the right equipment, you can have an AC of around 28-30 by level 20. Ancient Dragons would have a hard time hitting you, and pretty much everything else has to get a natural 20 to even touch you.
Edit: I removed a bullet that looked weird.
I also removed the name of the website I write for, because I didn't want to misrepresent them, nor cause any kind of problems on this forum.
I like that, while you CAN go Dex based Barb, the class features encourage you to choose Str. Dex is already overpowered as an ability (AC, init, finesse, skills), especially compared to Str (one skill, carry capacity- which many ignore, melee weapons). Also, thematically, Str fits rage better imo. Think Hulk, tho I guess you could think Wolverine for a more Dex based Barbarian inspiration (but W. still has those bulging biceps...)
Early game, yes a DEX based barbarian would be good, but as soon as you get the extra attack, you should start increaseing your STR. Well, it's great if you find the guantlets of ogre power.
DM in the kobold fight club "Yes i know this is insane, but my usual players are murderhobos." Birdman in adventures in faerun "Flapping wings" (telepathy) "The enemies are overwhelming us, i'll go break their minds." Irthos Bladesinger in trouble in timberbottom (DED) (All PbP)
The way I could see this working is on a higher level character. Once you have Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Uncommon), you can compensate for your first few levels of suboptimal play. As Chris_L pointed out, your AC can be (possibly?) highest in the game.
The character would likely start out Suboptimal, but grow in power rapidly after.
Yeah. if you are even more lucky with table rolls, you could find a belt of hill giant strength (STR 21) in your first treasure hoard. (Chance: .03%) Or even storm giant in level 11-16. (STR 29).
DM in the kobold fight club "Yes i know this is insane, but my usual players are murderhobos." Birdman in adventures in faerun "Flapping wings" (telepathy) "The enemies are overwhelming us, i'll go break their minds." Irthos Bladesinger in trouble in timberbottom (DED) (All PbP)
Actually, an eagle totem barbarian with a longbow sounds like pretty good way to handle it- you lose some damage from not being able to benefit from bonus damage of your range and reckless attack, but instead you gain stupendous rage and the highest AC archer, combine with outlander background for an effective, primally-flavored, non-magical ranger character- since you only have to boost Dex and Con.
Honestly, I kind of dislike that rage is so attribute dependent on strength, It makes me wish they either hadn't done that, or had made rage an archetype feature for the berserker, or something.
Well... If you think about it, the three Physical Abilities can reflect on your physique. Dexterity means the character can still pull a bow (which isn't a light thing as people tend to think) and dodge pretty fast. Also, strike with a finesse weapon... And deal massive damage. I would say that a Dextrous character can have a muscular build, yet, because he's physically trained, too.
It's not only about being doing crochet all day. Gots to poke people with a rapier eventually.
In short if I didn't lose reckless attack as a dex barbarian I could see picking it as an equal to strength. But without reckless it just loses too much striking advantage. Which is going to cost you critical chances.
I actually prefer Spirit Guardians Archer Barbarian. Get a longbow and sharpshooter, and bombard them from 600' away, while imposing disadvantage on attacks against anyone other than yourself, and eventually being able to reduce their damage taken and throw it back at the person who is attacking them. If anyone *does* attack you, well, you've got up to 20 AC even without a shield, are 600' away, and are resistant to piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage, with a half a million HP. I think you'll be ok.
Pros:
- Positive Synergy between Brutal Crit and Elven Accuracy
- Strong debuff vs other targets, "tanks" effectively at range.
- Great defenses
- Very easy to chain together attacks against foes to keep Rage going
Cons:
- Will never do as many attacks or as much damage as a Ranger or Fighter (for ranged weapon use) or even Bard; while also not dealing as much damage or having as many attacks as a Strength based Barbarian
- Dungeons often have very confined spaces and short hallways being fought in, which limits the amount of long range play you'll actually get to do.
- You're not serving as a "traditional" tank for your group, a frontliner, which means in many cases someone else would need to step up to do the job.
It's different for sure. I've never done it. I think it could be ok, at minimum, but I'm not sure I wouldn't personally be thinking 'why am I doing this, this is so suboptimal' the whole time I was playing, which might sap my enjoyment of the character. That's a personal problem though. If anyone tries this out let me know.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've been creating a Barbarian for an Adventurers League game and while I am going to be running with a Strength based Barb, I want to hear your insights and persuasions and enticing me to create, run and role play a Dexterity based Barb instead.
To start off, I am a little concerned why a player would forfeit a lot of class abilities in order to chose a Dexterity based Barb.
If a player is going to sacrifice some major abilities in order to take the Dexterity route, then wouldn't another class just be a better option? Say Fighter/Rogue?
You should perhaps not play a DEX Barb... Basically because your rage will be not so good. You only gain much of the benefits while meeleeing using STR.
It would, however, be a great tank at meelee with a shield, though. But I don't think you'll make a barbarian to dodge all the time. You'll gonna eant to leap and yell that you "would like to rage".
Can't convince you...
1. if you go totem of the eagle enemies get disadvantage on attacks of opportunity and you can dash as a bonus action.
2. if you max out dex and con and use a shield you get 22 AC (not counting magic items) a feat not many other classes can compare to
3. you get less damage but you can tank more because AC will be higher
4. the only ability you're missing out on is the tiny bonus to damage that they get
5. you can RP as the berserker in for honor
but to be honest I usually go con based and make str and dex as even as possible after and take the tough feat asap
WHAT IT DO?
I actually have kind of a DEX Barb in AL. Well, she's only 1 level of Barb, but she does currently sport a 19 AC butt naked, 21 with a shield. She is also a Rogue, so she mitigates damage further with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. And a Shield Guardian. But I digress.
A DEX base would be purely for higher tankiness, essentially. You essentially lose out on your Rage damage and the ability to use your Reckless Attack.
There's really no benefit to having one, it doesn't synergize at all with any of the Barb features, such as Rage and Reckless Attack.
Yes, but.....if they cannot hit you, you will eventually kill them.
Coincidentally, I'm developing a character build for a Dex-based Barbarian. For optimization purposes, the Stout Halfling is best, especially since you can maximize the build with the tough Feat, which will add 40 hp by the time you hit level 20, but I used a Wood Elf with an Outlander background (forestry) to make it a lot more fun and thematic. I'm not going to share the whole thing here, because a group of us are trying to compile a system to release unconventional character builds for our readers to enjoy, not to mention that putting up the whole character sheet here would be a mess without some kind of readable format, but I can share a bit of the basal information that you can launch from. I used the standard array, and in here I'm including the Wood Elf's natural bonuses, so there's no need to add them:
Strength: 12 [1]
Dexterity: 16 [3]
Constitution: 15 [2]
Intelligence: 10 [0]
Wisdom: 14 [2]
Charisma: 8 [-1]
I chose to sack Charisma instead of Intelligence because it made more sense thematically that a Wood Elf Barbarian Outlander wouldn't do so well with others.
Skill Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, Nature, Perception, and Survival
Equipment: Scimitar, Shield, and 20 Darts
Again, more about theme than about optimization. A Wood Elf Barbarian with a rapier seems weird to me, especially with a shield, which helps bump the AC to 17 at first level.
Here's a quick rundown of my choices:
Primal Paths
Ability Score Increases:
At level 20, you have an AC of 24 and 226 hit points, assuming you took the 7 the whole time. The max you can pull of is 312 hit points.
None of this is including magic items that boost AC, either. With the right equipment, you can have an AC of around 28-30 by level 20. Ancient Dragons would have a hard time hitting you, and pretty much everything else has to get a natural 20 to even touch you.
Edit: I removed a bullet that looked weird.
I also removed the name of the website I write for, because I didn't want to misrepresent them, nor cause any kind of problems on this forum.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I found them all very useful.
This.
I like that, while you CAN go Dex based Barb, the class features encourage you to choose Str. Dex is already overpowered as an ability (AC, init, finesse, skills), especially compared to Str (one skill, carry capacity- which many ignore, melee weapons). Also, thematically, Str fits rage better imo. Think Hulk, tho I guess you could think Wolverine for a more Dex based Barbarian inspiration (but W. still has those bulging biceps...)
Early game, yes a DEX based barbarian would be good, but as soon as you get the extra attack, you should start increaseing your STR. Well, it's great if you find the guantlets of ogre power.
I'm that cat guy, and i do stuff. Youtube account: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGyrtkNMBOOCxyH4Eueno3w
Tabaxi Bard Level 15
DM in the kobold fight club "Yes i know this is insane, but my usual players are murderhobos."
Birdman in adventures in faerun "Flapping wings" (telepathy) "The enemies are overwhelming us, i'll go break their minds."
Irthos Bladesinger in trouble in timberbottom (DED)
(All PbP)
The way I could see this working is on a higher level character. Once you have Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Uncommon), you can compensate for your first few levels of suboptimal play. As Chris_L pointed out, your AC can be (possibly?) highest in the game.
The character would likely start out Suboptimal, but grow in power rapidly after.
Yeah. if you are even more lucky with table rolls, you could find a belt of hill giant strength (STR 21) in your first treasure hoard. (Chance: .03%) Or even storm giant in level 11-16. (STR 29).
I'm that cat guy, and i do stuff. Youtube account: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGyrtkNMBOOCxyH4Eueno3w
Tabaxi Bard Level 15
DM in the kobold fight club "Yes i know this is insane, but my usual players are murderhobos."
Birdman in adventures in faerun "Flapping wings" (telepathy) "The enemies are overwhelming us, i'll go break their minds."
Irthos Bladesinger in trouble in timberbottom (DED)
(All PbP)
Actually, an eagle totem barbarian with a longbow sounds like pretty good way to handle it- you lose some damage from not being able to benefit from bonus damage of your range and reckless attack, but instead you gain stupendous rage and the highest AC archer, combine with outlander background for an effective, primally-flavored, non-magical ranger character- since you only have to boost Dex and Con.
Honestly, I kind of dislike that rage is so attribute dependent on strength, It makes me wish they either hadn't done that, or had made rage an archetype feature for the berserker, or something.
Well... If you think about it, the three Physical Abilities can reflect on your physique. Dexterity means the character can still pull a bow (which isn't a light thing as people tend to think) and dodge pretty fast. Also, strike with a finesse weapon... And deal massive damage. I would say that a Dextrous character can have a muscular build, yet, because he's physically trained, too.
It's not only about being doing crochet all day. Gots to poke people with a rapier eventually.
Looking at str vs sex... The reason I don't like the idea of a dex barbarian. Here's my pro and con list first Things you give up by going dex.
1. No more advantage. Reckless attack is only useful with strength based melee.
2. No rage damage bonus since you aren't using a strength based melee.
3. You'll have advantage if you rage on strength checks and saving throws but no bonuses.
4. Indomitable might becomes worthless.
Things you gain by going dex.
1. You'll be more Tanky. (Especially if you go bear totem)
2. Your danger sense with a high dex is even more awesome. Pretty much guaranteeing you saves with str con and dex
3. If you stack on the shield master feat with a high dex and advantage you might take zero area damage more often.
4. Initiative roll advantage with higher dex? Yes please!
Me if I was going for damage I'd be a berserker with a great axe. And probably the great weapon master feat.
If I was going dex I'd probably end up with the shield master feat and maybe sentinel and wield a rapier.
Does your group need a tank? Go option two. If not it's very satistifying to roll those damage dice with a strength barbarian.
In short if I didn't lose reckless attack as a dex barbarian I could see picking it as an equal to strength. But without reckless it just loses too much striking advantage. Which is going to cost you critical chances.
The idea reminds me of the ice skating sumo wrestler commercial
how about zealot archer barbarian?
I actually prefer Spirit Guardians Archer Barbarian. Get a longbow and sharpshooter, and bombard them from 600' away, while imposing disadvantage on attacks against anyone other than yourself, and eventually being able to reduce their damage taken and throw it back at the person who is attacking them. If anyone *does* attack you, well, you've got up to 20 AC even without a shield, are 600' away, and are resistant to piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage, with a half a million HP. I think you'll be ok.
Pros:
- Positive Synergy between Brutal Crit and Elven Accuracy
- Strong debuff vs other targets, "tanks" effectively at range.
- Great defenses
- Very easy to chain together attacks against foes to keep Rage going
Cons:
- Will never do as many attacks or as much damage as a Ranger or Fighter (for ranged weapon use) or even Bard; while also not dealing as much damage or having as many attacks as a Strength based Barbarian
- Dungeons often have very confined spaces and short hallways being fought in, which limits the amount of long range play you'll actually get to do.
- You're not serving as a "traditional" tank for your group, a frontliner, which means in many cases someone else would need to step up to do the job.
It's different for sure. I've never done it. I think it could be ok, at minimum, but I'm not sure I wouldn't personally be thinking 'why am I doing this, this is so suboptimal' the whole time I was playing, which might sap my enjoyment of the character. That's a personal problem though. If anyone tries this out let me know.