I have a very low int/wis (6 in both) bard i'm going to play in the future, and when i get to play him, i was thinking of taking College of Eloquence. He's a poet, but eloquence bard just seems like a subclass for "smart" characters. Is there any good way to justify picking the subclass, or should i just do something else?
Easy: Maui from Moana. Nothing about Eloquence bards suggest they have anything between their ears.
That said, playing a character dumber than a giant ape is... look, you can do what you like, but if you roleplay that level of intelligence correctly, you'll be nearly too stupid to function. That has nothing to do with your class or subclass. I highly recommend roleplaying as if you had 8s, so you can just be very stupid by human standards, instead of being so dumb you have to be dressed in the morning by your party members.
I'm of the opinion that stats should have zero bearing on how a character should be roleplayed. You Earp as a competent person? Go ahead. Wanna play eloquence? Go ahead! Don't let your stats become the warden of a prison of your own making.
Be any of the royal characters from Spaceballs honestly. Just dumb enough to roll eyes/laugh at but somehow charismatic, elegant. Somehow just charismatic enough to be persuasive. The eloquence could be because the bard comes from a family of great power/wealth so most do what they say out of fear or respect.
I highly recommend roleplaying as if you had 8s, so you can just be very stupid by human standards, instead of being so dumb you have to be dressed in the morning by your party members.
An intelligence of 8 isn't a "very stupid human", it's slightly below normal. An int of 6 doesn't mean you can't get dressed by yourself. Even in combination with a low wisdom you still are capable of functioning as an adventurer (the lowest "practical" Intelligence and wisdom score would be a 3 in each, using rolled stats).
A character with low wisdom and intelligence would be something of a manchild. Combine it with a high charisma and preferebly high strength and you have a himbo. The comparison to Maui was quite apt.
I think it would be fun to deliver amazing oratory with terrible content, like you just aren't clever. Rhyme the same word with itself over and over, or have your inspiration just be a dull description of a tree or something.
He could still be appealing to other people of low intelligence, basically the reality show star of a D&D world. Personally, as a DM I wouldn't allow an Intelligence 6 character, though.
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+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
He could still be appealing to other people of low intelligence, basically the reality show star of a D&D world. Personally, as a DM I wouldn't allow an Intelligence 6 character, though.
He could still be appealing to other people of low intelligence, basically the reality show star of a D&D world. Personally, as a DM I wouldn't allow an Intelligence 6 character, though.
So you don't allow the players to roll for stats?
Point buy only, no rolling alloud. Characters should be viable and there shouldn't be any randomness in permanent scores. Intelligence 8 is the absolute minimum that I allow, though I strongly recommend taking 10.
He could still be appealing to other people of low intelligence, basically the reality show star of a D&D world. Personally, as a DM I wouldn't allow an Intelligence 6 character, though.
So you don't allow the players to roll for stats?
Point buy only, no rolling alloud. Characters should be viable and there shouldn't be any randomness in permanent scores. Intelligence 8 is the absolute minimum that I allow, though I strongly recommend taking 10.
So slightly below average people can't become adventurers? Check.
I see no reason not to allow an Int or Wisdom of even 5. Part of this is that you do not actually know people's intelligence, anymore than you know their exact strength. I have met people that i swear are dumber than dogs, but they somehow function in real life. Forest Gump was probably the equivelent of an Int of 5 or so. Smart enough that someone with an Int of 8 thought they could still join the army, but not really being capable of surviving in the army without some help ... except for a massive amount of Luck / Wisdom.
Being stupid does not prevent you from doing remarkable things.
But... you had a 6 in both Intelligence AND Wisdom? The guys like that from my high school died before 50. Without being an adventurer. They made the WORST possible choice. Drunk driving, drugs, stealing from criminals, etc.
I cannot see anyone playing that and surviving a single session. That is the guy that climbs into the bear cage. The guy that throws his only weapon at the villain. The one holding a water pistol that dares the cop to shoot him.
The only way he survives one session is if he convinces the party to save him. Whereupon they refuse to have anything else to do with him further.
But... you had a 6 in both Intelligence AND Wisdom? The guys like that from my high school died before 50. Without being an adventurer. They made the WORST possible choice. Drunk driving, drugs, stealing from criminals, etc.
Sounds like your average PC to me... ;)
I cannot see anyone playing that and surviving a single session. That is the guy that climbs into the bear cage. The guy that throws his only weapon at the villain. The one holding a water pistol that dares the cop to shoot him.
Again, not much different to most PCs.
The only way he survives one session is if he convinces the party to save him. Whereupon they refuse to have anything else to do with him further.
Or it's more like Lenny from "Of Mice and Men". Or it could be a person with high charisma so that people want to take care of them because their genuinly nice, albeit not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Think a charming himbo or a fish out of water like Encino man. Just because you have a low Int and Wisdom (especially if it's only a 6 in each) doesn't mean you commit crimes or is a mean person.
As a general thought, remember that the lowest viable score according to the character creation rules is three.
A 6 in both INT and WIS is viable on some PCs. I would agree with the note from Lostwhilefishing that Lenny from Steinbeck's short novel would be a good rough equivalent, though Lenny also wasn't eloquent (or charming). Honestly, such low scores are hard to pull off on a Eloquence, Lore, or Creation Bard. This isn't to say that low INT and low WIS cannot be charismatic, but certain subclasses strongly imply an above average ability to not only draw attention to themselves, but to also creatively string together concepts and symbols while also having a clear ability to communicate. Ofc, if you and the table you play at don't really care about role-playing your stats, then do whatever you want.
The answer is that with those scores you wouldn't. Intelligence of 2-3 is animal intelligence. Intelligence of 4-5 is semi-intelligent. Intelligence of 6-7 is the lowest possible score for being able to function so this character is not capable of making decisions on their own. A charming simpleton with no ability to understand the dangers of poor decision making is not a viable character unless they have a care taker. The idea you could make a bard of out of those stats is just ridiculous. They can barely even speak. I have played a character with similar intelligence and wisdom scores but it was a half-ogre fighter that the party had to point at stuff like it was a weapon. It was really funny because the character was gullible and easily led so it didn't running around like Leroy Jenkins getting the party killed. If you do not play the character according to the stats then their is no point in having stats at all. Either play them or don't play them. The average intelligence for D&D is 10-13 for humans. Six is not going to cut it and if you need something to explain it more easily then just go with the intelligence score multiplied by 10 for their IQ score. Someone with a 60 IQ, 100 is average, and the corresponding wisdom to match is not functional. It really is that simple.
Lol some people would have to google Princess Vespa or Prince Lonestar/Vallium(spelling). But that was a great reference. Scores should not hinder roll playing, they’re there to “officiate’ mechanics. Heads of state (politicians) are another good example, they sure could talk but some are dumb as rocks (throughout history).
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I have a very low int/wis (6 in both) bard i'm going to play in the future, and when i get to play him, i was thinking of taking College of Eloquence. He's a poet, but eloquence bard just seems like a subclass for "smart" characters. Is there any good way to justify picking the subclass, or should i just do something else?
Easy: Maui from Moana. Nothing about Eloquence bards suggest they have anything between their ears.
That said, playing a character dumber than a giant ape is... look, you can do what you like, but if you roleplay that level of intelligence correctly, you'll be nearly too stupid to function. That has nothing to do with your class or subclass. I highly recommend roleplaying as if you had 8s, so you can just be very stupid by human standards, instead of being so dumb you have to be dressed in the morning by your party members.
I'm of the opinion that stats should have zero bearing on how a character should be roleplayed. You Earp as a competent person? Go ahead. Wanna play eloquence? Go ahead! Don't let your stats become the warden of a prison of your own making.
Be any of the royal characters from Spaceballs honestly. Just dumb enough to roll eyes/laugh at but somehow charismatic, elegant. Somehow just charismatic enough to be persuasive. The eloquence could be because the bard comes from a family of great power/wealth so most do what they say out of fear or respect.
An intelligence of 8 isn't a "very stupid human", it's slightly below normal. An int of 6 doesn't mean you can't get dressed by yourself. Even in combination with a low wisdom you still are capable of functioning as an adventurer (the lowest "practical" Intelligence and wisdom score would be a 3 in each, using rolled stats).
A character with low wisdom and intelligence would be something of a manchild. Combine it with a high charisma and preferebly high strength and you have a himbo. The comparison to Maui was quite apt.
Sounds like a perfect excuse to make a "himbo" character!
I think it would be fun to deliver amazing oratory with terrible content, like you just aren't clever. Rhyme the same word with itself over and over, or have your inspiration just be a dull description of a tree or something.
Two words: Vogon Poetry
He could still be appealing to other people of low intelligence, basically the reality show star of a D&D world. Personally, as a DM I wouldn't allow an Intelligence 6 character, though.
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
So you don't allow the players to roll for stats?
Point buy only, no rolling alloud. Characters should be viable and there shouldn't be any randomness in permanent scores. Intelligence 8 is the absolute minimum that I allow, though I strongly recommend taking 10.
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
So slightly below average people can't become adventurers? Check.
I see no reason not to allow an Int or Wisdom of even 5. Part of this is that you do not actually know people's intelligence, anymore than you know their exact strength. I have met people that i swear are dumber than dogs, but they somehow function in real life. Forest Gump was probably the equivelent of an Int of 5 or so. Smart enough that someone with an Int of 8 thought they could still join the army, but not really being capable of surviving in the army without some help ... except for a massive amount of Luck / Wisdom.
Being stupid does not prevent you from doing remarkable things.
But... you had a 6 in both Intelligence AND Wisdom? The guys like that from my high school died before 50. Without being an adventurer. They made the WORST possible choice. Drunk driving, drugs, stealing from criminals, etc.
I cannot see anyone playing that and surviving a single session. That is the guy that climbs into the bear cage. The guy that throws his only weapon at the villain. The one holding a water pistol that dares the cop to shoot him.
The only way he survives one session is if he convinces the party to save him. Whereupon they refuse to have anything else to do with him further.
Sounds like your average PC to me... ;)
Again, not much different to most PCs.
Or it's more like Lenny from "Of Mice and Men". Or it could be a person with high charisma so that people want to take care of them because their genuinly nice, albeit not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Think a charming himbo or a fish out of water like Encino man. Just because you have a low Int and Wisdom (especially if it's only a 6 in each) doesn't mean you commit crimes or is a mean person.
As a general thought, remember that the lowest viable score according to the character creation rules is three.
A 6 in both INT and WIS is viable on some PCs. I would agree with the note from Lostwhilefishing that Lenny from Steinbeck's short novel would be a good rough equivalent, though Lenny also wasn't eloquent (or charming). Honestly, such low scores are hard to pull off on a Eloquence, Lore, or Creation Bard. This isn't to say that low INT and low WIS cannot be charismatic, but certain subclasses strongly imply an above average ability to not only draw attention to themselves, but to also creatively string together concepts and symbols while also having a clear ability to communicate. Ofc, if you and the table you play at don't really care about role-playing your stats, then do whatever you want.
The answer is that with those scores you wouldn't. Intelligence of 2-3 is animal intelligence. Intelligence of 4-5 is semi-intelligent. Intelligence of 6-7 is the lowest possible score for being able to function so this character is not capable of making decisions on their own. A charming simpleton with no ability to understand the dangers of poor decision making is not a viable character unless they have a care taker. The idea you could make a bard of out of those stats is just ridiculous. They can barely even speak. I have played a character with similar intelligence and wisdom scores but it was a half-ogre fighter that the party had to point at stuff like it was a weapon. It was really funny because the character was gullible and easily led so it didn't running around like Leroy Jenkins getting the party killed. If you do not play the character according to the stats then their is no point in having stats at all. Either play them or don't play them. The average intelligence for D&D is 10-13 for humans. Six is not going to cut it and if you need something to explain it more easily then just go with the intelligence score multiplied by 10 for their IQ score. Someone with a 60 IQ, 100 is average, and the corresponding wisdom to match is not functional. It really is that simple.
Lol some people would have to google Princess Vespa or Prince Lonestar/Vallium(spelling).
But that was a great reference. Scores should not hinder roll playing, they’re there to “officiate’ mechanics. Heads of state (politicians) are another good example, they sure could talk but some are dumb as rocks (throughout history).