"However if the Echo moves more than 30’ from the Knight at any time, it will disappear at the end of Knight's round."
This is poorly worded and implies that the Echo still disappears if it is ever 30' away but within 30' at the end of the round, whereas this is not the case. The Echo only disappears if it's more than 30' away at the end of the Knight's turn. If it goes more than 30' away but ends up within 30' at the end of the Knight's turn, it does not disappear.
Now that Tasha's Cauldron has released, have there been any changes to the Echos capabilities?
More specifically, does the change to the Bladesinger subclass' Extra Attack feature allowing a cantrip in place of an attack when taking an attack action, now allow the echo to cast these cantrips? Assuming enough levels in bladesinger to have extra attack.
"However if the Echo moves more than 30’ from the Knight at any time, it will disappear at the end of Knight's round."
This is poorly worded and implies that the Echo still disappears if it is ever 30' away but within 30' at the end of the round, whereas this is not the case. The Echo only disappears if it's more than 30' away at the end of the Knight's turn. If it goes more than 30' away but ends up within 30' at the end of the Knight's turn, it does not disappear.
If your echo is ever more than 30 ft. from you at the end of your turn, it is destroyed.
I would rule as yes, as long as the cantrip makes an attack roll. The relevant texts are:
Echo Knight
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo's space."
Bladesinger
"You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."
A bladesinger replacing one of his two attacks with a firebolt is still making the spell attack with the Attack action. However, the echo can only be used for attacks, so things like Poison Spray wouldn't work with the echo.
"However if the Echo moves more than 30’ from the Knight at any time, it will disappear at the end of Knight's round."
This is poorly worded and implies that the Echo still disappears if it is ever 30' away but within 30' at the end of the round, whereas this is not the case. The Echo only disappears if it's more than 30' away at the end of the Knight's turn. If it goes more than 30' away but ends up within 30' at the end of the Knight's turn, it does not disappear.
If your echo is ever more than 30 ft. from you at the end of your turn, it is destroyed.
It seems clear enough to me?
The wording in this FAQ and the official wording read differently. First of all, this FAQ specifies round instead of turn which is just plain wrong. Second, the official wording ""If your echo is ever more than 30 ft. from you at the end of your turn, it is destroyed." is interpreted by me to mean that the Echo is only destroyed if it is more than 30' away from the night at the end of the turn. It can go beyond 30' and as long as it gets back within 30' before the end of the knight's turn it does not disappear. If it was supposed to imply it will disappear even if gets back it would have been worded something like this ""if your echo is ever more than 30 ft. from you, it is destroyed at the end of your turn." but that's not the case.
The messy part is when you try to deal with this out of combat. My interpretation we use is that essentially you have 6 seconds if doing something like jumping in a portal then deciding to revert (even between planes).
I would rule as yes, as long as the cantrip makes an attack roll. The relevant texts are:
Echo Knight
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo's space."
Bladesinger
"You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."
A bladesinger replacing one of his two attacks with a firebolt is still making the spell attack with the Attack action. However, the echo can only be used for attacks, so things like Poison Spray wouldn't work with the echo.
Problem here is casting a cantrip is not an attack action. I studied this a lot because I was building an Echo/Divine Soul and wanted to twin Booming Blade, quicken it, etc. (before the recent booming blade change).
Booming blade is a "Cast" action that includes an attack. But it's still cast, so all the text above does NOT apply to cantrips unfortunately. Even the extra attack given by haste cannot be used for a cantrip as it specifies only an additional attack, not even the attack action (which would give fighters multiple attacks with haste).
Casting Booming Blade normally would be require the "Cast a spell" action. The Bladesinger feature provides an exception, letting you cast a cantrip as part of the Attack action.
If you have two echos, can one Unleash Incarnation trigger them both to attack once each, or would/could you use two charges to make them both attack within the same Attack action?
If you have two echos, can one Unleash Incarnation trigger them both to attack once each, or would/could you use two charges to make them both attack within the same Attack action?
Unleash Incarnation doesn't let them attack, you're still attacking from their position. That said, no, you just have two spots to choose where your Incarnation Attack comes from, you don't get to attack from both.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
If the fighter has never been to the kryn dynasty or studied under another echo knight, how might they learn to effect the time line in this way? If this were an ability granted by their innate understanding of martial ways, you would assume that the number of granted extra attacks would be based on their wisdom modifier and not their constitution.
My fighter was part of a mission to stop a crazy wizard who’d been opening random portals as an experiment. He got a crit on the Wizard, who failed his concentration check; there was an explosion and suddenly my fighter had his echo.
-While running from enemies, a fighter accidentally enters a portal to the feywild. The echo is their soul , torn between planes.
-The fighter is a shaman or someone with a strong magical connection to their ancestors, the echo is their spirits. Alternatively it's their enemies spirits.
The Echo is immune to Blind; this was one of the FAQ listed above but my question, and it might seem silly to even ask, is if the Fighter themselves were Blinded and used Echo Avatar as a means to avoid his condition, could he see while transferring his consciousness to the Echo?
Yes, a blind Fighter can see through his echo when using Echo Avatar. In fact, all fighters are blinded and deafened when using the feature, so by definition it HAS to work with blinded characters.
How long ago do you think an alternate time line is accessible? My character was resurrected from a human to a half orc at level one. I am wondering if I can make echos of the human me, and if so when switching locations with that alternate timeline would that make me the human again until I access another timeline?
-While running from enemies, a fighter accidentally enters a portal to the feywild. The echo is their soul , torn between planes.
-The fighter is a shaman or someone with a strong magical connection to their ancestors, the echo is their spirits. Alternatively it's their enemies spirits.
If the connection to the magic comes from an ancestral line, wouldn’t it make more sense that the unleash incarnation be based on charisma, or if shamanic in nature then their wisdom. My question is more that sheer will and the ability to mentally push through pain becomes a source of magic in any fighter leveling from level 2 and yet the Kryn soldiers hold the source as being attributed to the Luxon (light and physics based magic) which playing in Icewindale doesn’t provide much opportunity to come into contact with such individuals.
my current character has a background as an archeologist and I worked into his story that he studied the echo knights in his education, but even that seems like he is drawing upon his intelligence vs constitution. I guess I am looking for more theory on the topic for when I describe how he does the things he does.
Put simply, interacting with your echo (beyond the simplest of techniques) is physically exhausting. You are collapsing multiple realities upon yourself, and that puts a tremendous strain on your body. Thus, how often you are able to do it depends on your Constitution.
Why you know how to do it is another story. Study (int), spiritual connections (wis), or sheer force of will(cha) could all be valid explanations, but just knowing how your echo works won't help with enduring the physical stress that the technique requires. You need the stamina and fortitude that Con brings you, or your body won't be able to handle it.
The only way to see as the echo is the level 7 echo avatar. This could dodge blind but makes the actual fighter blind/deaf and you cant attack or teleport (rules as intended / twitter)
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"However if the Echo moves more than 30’ from the Knight at any time, it will disappear at the end of Knight's round."
This is poorly worded and implies that the Echo still disappears if it is ever 30' away but within 30' at the end of the round, whereas this is not the case. The Echo only disappears if it's more than 30' away at the end of the Knight's turn. If it goes more than 30' away but ends up within 30' at the end of the Knight's turn, it does not disappear.
Now that Tasha's Cauldron has released, have there been any changes to the Echos capabilities?
More specifically, does the change to the Bladesinger subclass' Extra Attack feature allowing a cantrip in place of an attack when taking an attack action, now allow the echo to cast these cantrips? Assuming enough levels in bladesinger to have extra attack.
If your echo is ever more than 30 ft. from you at the end of your turn, it is destroyed.
It seems clear enough to me?
I would rule as yes, as long as the cantrip makes an attack roll. The relevant texts are:
Echo Knight
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo's space."
Bladesinger
"You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."
A bladesinger replacing one of his two attacks with a firebolt is still making the spell attack with the Attack action. However, the echo can only be used for attacks, so things like Poison Spray wouldn't work with the echo.
The wording in this FAQ and the official wording read differently. First of all, this FAQ specifies round instead of turn which is just plain wrong. Second, the official wording ""If your echo is ever more than 30 ft. from you at the end of your turn, it is destroyed." is interpreted by me to mean that the Echo is only destroyed if it is more than 30' away from the night at the end of the turn. It can go beyond 30' and as long as it gets back within 30' before the end of the knight's turn it does not disappear. If it was supposed to imply it will disappear even if gets back it would have been worded something like this ""if your echo is ever more than 30 ft. from you, it is destroyed at the end of your turn." but that's not the case.
The messy part is when you try to deal with this out of combat. My interpretation we use is that essentially you have 6 seconds if doing something like jumping in a portal then deciding to revert (even between planes).
Problem here is casting a cantrip is not an attack action. I studied this a lot because I was building an Echo/Divine Soul and wanted to twin Booming Blade, quicken it, etc. (before the recent booming blade change).
Booming blade is a "Cast" action that includes an attack. But it's still cast, so all the text above does NOT apply to cantrips unfortunately. Even the extra attack given by haste cannot be used for a cantrip as it specifies only an additional attack, not even the attack action (which would give fighters multiple attacks with haste).
Casting a cantrip using the Extra Attack feature from the Bladesinger is explicitly, RAW a part of the Attack action, not the Cast a Spell action.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Casting Booming Blade normally would be require the "Cast a spell" action. The Bladesinger feature provides an exception, letting you cast a cantrip as part of the Attack action.
If you have two echos, can one Unleash Incarnation trigger them both to attack once each, or would/could you use two charges to make them both attack within the same Attack action?
Unleash Incarnation doesn't let them attack, you're still attacking from their position. That said, no, you just have two spots to choose where your Incarnation Attack comes from, you don't get to attack from both.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
If the fighter has never been to the kryn dynasty or studied under another echo knight, how might they learn to effect the time line in this way? If this were an ability granted by their innate understanding of martial ways, you would assume that the number of granted extra attacks would be based on their wisdom modifier and not their constitution.
My fighter was part of a mission to stop a crazy wizard who’d been opening random portals as an experiment. He got a crit on the Wizard, who failed his concentration check; there was an explosion and suddenly my fighter had his echo.
Classic radiation accident.
A couple ideas I never got the chance to use:
-While running from enemies, a fighter accidentally enters a portal to the feywild. The echo is their soul , torn between planes.
-The fighter is a shaman or someone with a strong magical connection to their ancestors, the echo is their spirits. Alternatively it's their enemies spirits.
A little late to the party...
The Echo is immune to Blind; this was one of the FAQ listed above but my question, and it might seem silly to even ask, is if the Fighter themselves were Blinded and used Echo Avatar as a means to avoid his condition, could he see while transferring his consciousness to the Echo?
Yes, a blind Fighter can see through his echo when using Echo Avatar. In fact, all fighters are blinded and deafened when using the feature, so by definition it HAS to work with blinded characters.
How long ago do you think an alternate time line is accessible? My character was resurrected from a human to a half orc at level one. I am wondering if I can make echos of the human me, and if so when switching locations with that alternate timeline would that make me the human again until I access another timeline?
If the connection to the magic comes from an ancestral line, wouldn’t it make more sense that the unleash incarnation be based on charisma, or if shamanic in nature then their wisdom. My question is more that sheer will and the ability to mentally push through pain becomes a source of magic in any fighter leveling from level 2 and yet the Kryn soldiers hold the source as being attributed to the Luxon (light and physics based magic) which playing in Icewindale doesn’t provide much opportunity to come into contact with such individuals.
my current character has a background as an archeologist and I worked into his story that he studied the echo knights in his education, but even that seems like he is drawing upon his intelligence vs constitution. I guess I am looking for more theory on the topic for when I describe how he does the things he does.
Put simply, interacting with your echo (beyond the simplest of techniques) is physically exhausting. You are collapsing multiple realities upon yourself, and that puts a tremendous strain on your body. Thus, how often you are able to do it depends on your Constitution.
Why you know how to do it is another story. Study (int), spiritual connections (wis), or sheer force of will(cha) could all be valid explanations, but just knowing how your echo works won't help with enduring the physical stress that the technique requires. You need the stamina and fortitude that Con brings you, or your body won't be able to handle it.
The only way to see as the echo is the level 7 echo avatar. This could dodge blind but makes the actual fighter blind/deaf and you cant attack or teleport (rules as intended / twitter)