- Fiedish Vigor was planned as a placeholder until I get more Warlock levels. But I honestly think after spending just this current level 8 with it, that starting a fight with 8 temporary HP soaks up so much damage in the long run (as you get hit with your AC + Shield spell so much less anyways) that I don't wanna miss it anymore! My DM agreed luckily, that a character casting a spell over and over again gets so familiar with it, that he just knows, when the maximum support would be achieved aka. the 8 tHP rolled. Thus after 1min out of combat (passive recasting it most of the time) I get the 8 tHP automatically.
100% on this. I originally took it as a placeholder, but I get so much use out of it, I hate the idea of giving it up. I rarely dig into my own hit points (I am a ranged Eb spammer, so AB makes sense for me) due to my position. I'll take a hit, and it eats most of my temp hp, and that's that. it takes pressure off the healers because I am rarely in a critical situation, and the healers can focus on the more forward deployed members of the team. This is either the second or third warlock I have taken FV on and it rapidly became one of my favorite invocations.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
RE agonizing blast....how do you plan to play your warlock. As I said earlier, it's good only if you stand in the back and eldritch blast. Don't let people tell you it's good for all situations. It is not. If you're going to be in melee, agonizing blast is a bad pick. It literally, only adds your charisma modifier to your eldritch blast bolts. It turns EB into a reloadable, heavy crossbow. You won't be able to smite with it.
if you're going to be hitting things in the face with a weapon, agonizing blast is a very bad pick for an invocation because you're never going to use it.
This is not true. With a melee build you will use EB a lot if you have it as a cantrip (with or without AB). A melee character is not going to be in melee all the time. Half of battles start outside of melee range, then there are more beyond that with flying enemies or when the distance between the guy you just killed and the guy you want to kill next is more than your movement and in these cases having AB/EB is substantially better than just using EB (nearly twice as much damage in tier 2) and it is a whole lot better than throwing a javelin.
You can get EB without AB and you are still ok in these circumstances, not good though. I think when we are talking about a 2nd level invocation AB is the best bang for the buck on a melee build. It is somewhat situational, but except for Fiendish Vigor, what 2nd-level invocation isn't situational?
RE agonizing blast....how do you plan to play your warlock. As I said earlier, it's good only if you stand in the back and eldritch blast. Don't let people tell you it's good for all situations. It is not. If you're going to be in melee, agonizing blast is a bad pick. It literally, only adds your charisma modifier to your eldritch blast bolts. It turns EB into a reloadable, heavy crossbow. You won't be able to smite with it.
if you're going to be hitting things in the face with a weapon, agonizing blast is a very bad pick for an invocation because you're never going to use it.
This is not true. With a melee build you will use EB a lot if you have it (with or without AB). A melee character is not going to be in melee all the time. At least half of battles start outside of melee range, then there are more beyond that with flying enemies or when the distance between the guy you just killed and the guy you want to kill next is more than your movement and in these cases having AB/EB is substantially better than just using EB (nearly twice as much damage in tier 2) and it is a whole lot better than throwing a javelin.
You can get EB without AB and you are still ok in these circumstances, not good though. I think when we are talking about a 2nd level invocation AB is the best bang for the buck on a melee build. It is somewhat situational, but except for Fiendish Vigor, what 2nd-level invocation isn't situational?
Well, the number of combats that start out of melee range is completely campaign dependent. Might be they get a lot of use from it, might be not much. As you very correctly say, all the invocations are situational, but AB may not come up much at all, and we’re probably talking about 2-3 points of damage per hit. It’s never really going to add up to much. Might be better off dashing to melee. And either way, it has an S component with no M component, so the caster will need a free hand and warcaster can’t help. Making sword and board builds really annoying with the juggling, if the DM enforces those rules.
RE agonizing blast....how do you plan to play your warlock. As I said earlier, it's good only if you stand in the back and eldritch blast. Don't let people tell you it's good for all situations. It is not. If you're going to be in melee, agonizing blast is a bad pick. It literally, only adds your charisma modifier to your eldritch blast bolts. It turns EB into a reloadable, heavy crossbow. You won't be able to smite with it.
if you're going to be hitting things in the face with a weapon, agonizing blast is a very bad pick for an invocation because you're never going to use it.
This is not true. With a melee build you will use EB a lot if you have it (with or without AB). A melee character is not going to be in melee all the time. At least half of battles start outside of melee range, then there are more beyond that with flying enemies or when the distance between the guy you just killed and the guy you want to kill next is more than your movement and in these cases having AB/EB is substantially better than just using EB (nearly twice as much damage in tier 2) and it is a whole lot better than throwing a javelin.
You can get EB without AB and you are still ok in these circumstances, not good though. I think when we are talking about a 2nd level invocation AB is the best bang for the buck on a melee build. It is somewhat situational, but except for Fiendish Vigor, what 2nd-level invocation isn't situational?
Well, the number of combats that start out of melee range is completely campaign dependent. Might be they get a lot of use from it, might be not much. As you very correctly say, all the invocations are situational, but AB may not come up much at all, and we’re probably talking about 2-3 points of damage per hit. It’s never really going to add up to much. Might be better off dashing to melee.
He has a 16 charisma right now, so that is +3 damage per hit right now and probably going up with levels. +3 damage per hit is a 54% increase in damage and takes it form ok to actually good.
And either way, it has an S component with no M component, so the caster will need a free hand and warcaster can’t help. Making sword and board builds really annoying with the juggling, if the DM enforces those rules.
Yes it will help. Read the description of Warcaster, note bold and underlined:
You have practiced casting spells in the midst of combat, learning techniques that grant you the following benefits:
You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
You can perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
Sword and board is really annoying, but it is primarily an issue for the shield spell (and absorb elements), which is cast off-turn. It is not generally an issue with a somatic spell on your turn, because you just stow your weapon before you cast the spell. Getting Warcaster fixes this completely though. As long as your spell does not have a material component, just keep your weapon and shield in hand.
For feats I"ll definitely take war caster, and I don't see any other feats that I want, especially if it means giving up an ability score increase. Unless there's a good generalist feat that would be worth giving up one ability score increase for a hexadin build.
Also I'm getting confused on whether or not I should take AB. Is it good? Is it bad? Should I use it? Because I'm thinking of taking either AB + devils sight or Fiendish vigor + devils sight.
I’d say don’t plan it out if you can wait a bit. See how often you’re using EB. All we can do is give you suggestions, but depending on the campaign and party composition, you may or may not get much use from AB. Just play it by ear.
The only thing agonizing blast does is add your charisma mod to each bolt from your eldritch blast. If you're standing in the back spamming eldritch blast, it's great. If you're up in melee where you can't use EB effectively, it's bad.
When multiclassing, you should take abilities that augment how you plan to play, you want some synergy. Paladins are going to be hitting things with their sword. It's what they do. Their signature ability, divine smite, doesn't work with a non-melee weapon (or eldritch blast) and that should tell you what you're probably going to be doing. Now, warlock (hexblade) is a great pick for a paladin because you can pick up some good tools to help you be a better paladin. You'll get to use your charisma mod for your melee weapon attacks because you're a hexblade (like agonizing blast for your weapon, but better), and that's without invocations. You'll get the shield spell which might be worth using as a paladin.
As for invocations, you're going to want to pick things that help you be a better paladin. Devil's Sight is solid. Fiendish Vigor is solid. Eldritch Mind is great to get advantage on your con saving throws (to maintain concentration on spells like Bless). I think on a Paladin/Hexblade, I might consider eldritch mind mandatory.
Invocations are only as 'good' as you get use out of them. Agonizing blast is strong, for a ranged eldritch blast spammer. For a melee character, it's borderline useless. Eldritch mind however, is fantastic on a melee character. Do I use it on my own personal backline, EB spammer? No. I rely on not being hit at all to maintain my concentration. The use case determines how good something is. For a melee though, you may use Hex, and need to concentrate on it. You may use bless. You may be able to pick up spirit shroud or spirit guardians depending on subclasses. All of those are great spells for melee characters to use that requires concentration, and Eldritch Mind will help you maintain that concentration when you take the inevitable hits.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Invocations are only as 'good' as you get use out of them. Agonizing blast is strong, for a ranged eldritch blast spammer. For a melee character, it's borderline useless.
It is not useless, your first sentence quoted above describes why. Like you said, it is as good as the use you get out of it. If you are playing a melee character you are going to make ranged attacks a lot and Eldritch Blast is your best ranged option.
If all fights started with you standing next to the enemy, or with all enemies within 30 feet of one another it would be useless. But most fights are not like that. It is at least 1 in 4 combat rounds that you can't use a melee attack because there is no enemy in reach on your turn.
I am playing a dedicated melee character in a campaign right now (a Fighter6/Warlock1) and she uses Eldritch Blast (without agonizing blast) all the time. Never when she can get within reach of enemies, but regularly when she can't and that happens at some time in most combats.
Eldritch mind however, is fantastic on a melee character. Do I use it on my own personal backline, EB spammer? No. I rely on not being hit at all to maintain my concentration. The use case determines how good something is. For a melee though, you may use Hex, and need to concentrate on it. You may use bless. You may be able to pick up spirit shroud or spirit guardians depending on subclasses. All of those are great spells for melee characters to use that requires concentration, and Eldritch Mind will help you maintain that concentration when you take the inevitable hits.
Eldritch mind is good, but as a Paladin you are not going to have a ton of slots. Bless is a great spell but it is a big opportunity cost on a Paladin, it can be worth it at low level, especially if you have some other high damage martials in the party. Spirit guardians would not come online until level 11 and at that level it would typically not be a good choice from an action economy point of view IMO.
Hex can be good on a Paladin, but it can be difficult juggling material components with the sword and board style favored on most Paladins. Ther are several other bonus action concentration spells like Wrathful Smite, that are great and those are good the entire game. IME that is where most of your concentration is going to go and Eldritch Mind helps quite a bit on that, but the good Paladin spells are also a bonus action to cast and you can usually just recast on your turn anyway if you lose concentration.
Also you really need Warcaster on a sword and board Hexadin to work the shield spell effectively and that makes EM redundant.
At the end of the day, I go back to your statement-It is only as good as you get use out of. If you are playing a melee Paladin, I think Agonizing Blast will generally be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind will be.
At the end of the day, I go back to your statement-It is only as good as you get use out of. If you are playing a melee Paladin, I think Agonizing Blast will generally be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind will be.
You think you're never going to get hit in melee to break concentration? Agonizing blast would almost never be used on any of my melee characters. Your post...I'm just not going to say anymore. OP can do what he thinks is best.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
At the end of the day, I go back to your statement-It is only as good as you get use out of. If you are playing a melee Paladin, I think Agonizing Blast will generally be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind will be.
You think you're never going to get hit in melee to break concentration? Agonizing blast would almost never be used on any of my melee characters. Your post...I'm just not going to say anymore. OP can do what he thinks is best.
No I don't think that. I think exactly what I said - as a melee Paladin with Eldritch Blast; Agonizing Blast will be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind.
Remember this character is basically a melee half caster with divine smite and the shield spell. You don't have many slots. Of the slots you have, a good portion of them will be used for smites and many of those that aren't used for smites will be used for shield. So at level 10 you are probably left with 3 or 4 spells you cast a day that are not shield, and some of them are probably not even concentration.
1. Eldritch Mind: For Eldritch Mind to matter at all, you need to cast one of your few slots on a concentration spell, you need to take damage, the spell needs to be in play when you take damage (i.e. if it is save or suck targeting an enemy he can't have made a save already), you would need to fail your save on your first d20 and succeed on your save on your second d20. All of those things need to happen for Eldritch Mind to matter and if you are only casting 3 or 4 spells a day (less at lower levels) that is not going to happen very often at all.
2. Agonizing Blast: For Agonizing Blast to matter you would need to hit on an attack roll with Eldritch Blast on a turn you can't get into melee.
On what is primarily a melee Paladin build, #2 will happen far more often than #1 IME.
Have you ever played a melee character with Eldritch Blast? If you have, I find it hard to believe you never used it. Like I said, I am playing one right now and I use EB frequently. I frequently either have to make a ranged attack or not attack at all and EB is by far the best ranged attack available on almost any melee character that has it.
At the end of the day, I go back to your statement-It is only as good as you get use out of. If you are playing a melee Paladin, I think Agonizing Blast will generally be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind will be.
You think you're never going to get hit in melee to break concentration? Agonizing blast would almost never be used on any of my melee characters. Your post...I'm just not going to say anymore. OP can do what he thinks is best.
No I don't think that. I think exactly what I said - as a melee Paladin with Eldritch Blast; Agonizing Blast will be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind.
Remember this character is basically a melee half caster with divine smite and the shield spell. You don't have many slots. Of the slots you have, a good portion of them will be used for smites and many of those that aren't used for smites will be used for shield. So at level 10 you are probably left with 3 or 4 spells you cast a day that are not shield, and some of them are probably not even concentration.
1. Eldritch Mind: For Eldritch Mind to matter at all, you need to cast one of your few slots on a concentration spell, you need to take damage, the spell needs to be in play when you take damage (i.e. if it is save or suck targeting an enemy he can't have made a save already), you would need to fail your save on your first d20 and succeed on your save on your second d20. All of those things need to happen for Eldritch Mind to matter and if you are only casting 3 or 4 spells a day (less at lower levels) that is not going to happen very often at all.
2. Agonizing Blast: For Agonizing Blast to matter you would need to hit on an attack roll with Eldritch Blast on a turn you can't get into melee.
On what is primarily a melee Paladin build, #2 will happen far more often than #1 IME.
Have you ever played a melee character with Eldritch Blast? If you have, I find it hard to believe you never used it. Like I said, I am playing one right now and I use EB frequently. I frequently either have to make a ranged attack or not attack at all and EB is by far the best ranged attack available on almost any melee character that has it.
Man, not long ago I finished a 1-20 eberron campaign where I played a hexadin. my build was 7 hexblade, 13 OoV paladin, utilizing elven accuracy and hexblade's curse to proc crits on a consistent basis and double smite with eldritch smite and divine smite. It was a fantastic burst damage build, and it had decent consist melee damage via GWM.
However, none of that counted for much towards the end as the maps kept getting bigger and wider and more spacious as the campaign progressed. Instead I found myself relying on EB so much that I took eldritch spear invocation and spell sniper feat after capping CHA.
my super-burst-gwm-heavy-hitter hexadin turned into a EB spammer at the end due to circumstance. It was highly effective, very safe, but sad and boring. Though, it highlights just so important it was to have EB + agonizing blast to stay effective from a distance, which was a lot of the time.
+5 AC? Yes please! looks like a great spell. I've also decided on invocations. I'm going with agonizing blast and devils sight. I think those are safe options. And because I'm taking war caster at level 5 (paladin level 4) I won't be taking the invocation. Fiendish vigor was very tempting, but I'll just stick to devils sight plus AB.
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100% on this. I originally took it as a placeholder, but I get so much use out of it, I hate the idea of giving it up. I rarely dig into my own hit points (I am a ranged Eb spammer, so AB makes sense for me) due to my position. I'll take a hit, and it eats most of my temp hp, and that's that. it takes pressure off the healers because I am rarely in a critical situation, and the healers can focus on the more forward deployed members of the team. This is either the second or third warlock I have taken FV on and it rapidly became one of my favorite invocations.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
This is not true. With a melee build you will use EB a lot if you have it as a cantrip (with or without AB). A melee character is not going to be in melee all the time. Half of battles start outside of melee range, then there are more beyond that with flying enemies or when the distance between the guy you just killed and the guy you want to kill next is more than your movement and in these cases having AB/EB is substantially better than just using EB (nearly twice as much damage in tier 2) and it is a whole lot better than throwing a javelin.
You can get EB without AB and you are still ok in these circumstances, not good though. I think when we are talking about a 2nd level invocation AB is the best bang for the buck on a melee build. It is somewhat situational, but except for Fiendish Vigor, what 2nd-level invocation isn't situational?
Well, the number of combats that start out of melee range is completely campaign dependent. Might be they get a lot of use from it, might be not much. As you very correctly say, all the invocations are situational, but AB may not come up much at all, and we’re probably talking about 2-3 points of damage per hit. It’s never really going to add up to much. Might be better off dashing to melee.
And either way, it has an S component with no M component, so the caster will need a free hand and warcaster can’t help. Making sword and board builds really annoying with the juggling, if the DM enforces those rules.
He has a 16 charisma right now, so that is +3 damage per hit right now and probably going up with levels. +3 damage per hit is a 54% increase in damage and takes it form ok to actually good.
Yes it will help. Read the description of Warcaster, note bold and underlined:
You have practiced casting spells in the midst of combat, learning techniques that grant you the following benefits:
Sword and board is really annoying, but it is primarily an issue for the shield spell (and absorb elements), which is cast off-turn. It is not generally an issue with a somatic spell on your turn, because you just stow your weapon before you cast the spell. Getting Warcaster fixes this completely though. As long as your spell does not have a material component, just keep your weapon and shield in hand.
For feats I"ll definitely take war caster, and I don't see any other feats that I want, especially if it means giving up an ability score increase. Unless there's a good generalist feat that would be worth giving up one ability score increase for a hexadin build.
Also I'm getting confused on whether or not I should take AB. Is it good? Is it bad? Should I use it? Because I'm thinking of taking either AB + devils sight or Fiendish vigor + devils sight.
I’d say don’t plan it out if you can wait a bit. See how often you’re using EB. All we can do is give you suggestions, but depending on the campaign and party composition, you may or may not get much use from AB. Just play it by ear.
sounds good. thank you for the help! I'll wait and see what happens in my campaign.
The only thing agonizing blast does is add your charisma mod to each bolt from your eldritch blast. If you're standing in the back spamming eldritch blast, it's great. If you're up in melee where you can't use EB effectively, it's bad.
When multiclassing, you should take abilities that augment how you plan to play, you want some synergy. Paladins are going to be hitting things with their sword. It's what they do. Their signature ability, divine smite, doesn't work with a non-melee weapon (or eldritch blast) and that should tell you what you're probably going to be doing. Now, warlock (hexblade) is a great pick for a paladin because you can pick up some good tools to help you be a better paladin. You'll get to use your charisma mod for your melee weapon attacks because you're a hexblade (like agonizing blast for your weapon, but better), and that's without invocations. You'll get the shield spell which might be worth using as a paladin.
As for invocations, you're going to want to pick things that help you be a better paladin. Devil's Sight is solid. Fiendish Vigor is solid. Eldritch Mind is great to get advantage on your con saving throws (to maintain concentration on spells like Bless). I think on a Paladin/Hexblade, I might consider eldritch mind mandatory.
Invocations are only as 'good' as you get use out of them. Agonizing blast is strong, for a ranged eldritch blast spammer. For a melee character, it's borderline useless. Eldritch mind however, is fantastic on a melee character. Do I use it on my own personal backline, EB spammer? No. I rely on not being hit at all to maintain my concentration. The use case determines how good something is. For a melee though, you may use Hex, and need to concentrate on it. You may use bless. You may be able to pick up spirit shroud or spirit guardians depending on subclasses. All of those are great spells for melee characters to use that requires concentration, and Eldritch Mind will help you maintain that concentration when you take the inevitable hits.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It is not useless, your first sentence quoted above describes why. Like you said, it is as good as the use you get out of it. If you are playing a melee character you are going to make ranged attacks a lot and Eldritch Blast is your best ranged option.
If all fights started with you standing next to the enemy, or with all enemies within 30 feet of one another it would be useless. But most fights are not like that. It is at least 1 in 4 combat rounds that you can't use a melee attack because there is no enemy in reach on your turn.
I am playing a dedicated melee character in a campaign right now (a Fighter6/Warlock1) and she uses Eldritch Blast (without agonizing blast) all the time. Never when she can get within reach of enemies, but regularly when she can't and that happens at some time in most combats.
Eldritch mind is good, but as a Paladin you are not going to have a ton of slots. Bless is a great spell but it is a big opportunity cost on a Paladin, it can be worth it at low level, especially if you have some other high damage martials in the party. Spirit guardians would not come online until level 11 and at that level it would typically not be a good choice from an action economy point of view IMO.
Hex can be good on a Paladin, but it can be difficult juggling material components with the sword and board style favored on most Paladins. Ther are several other bonus action concentration spells like Wrathful Smite, that are great and those are good the entire game. IME that is where most of your concentration is going to go and Eldritch Mind helps quite a bit on that, but the good Paladin spells are also a bonus action to cast and you can usually just recast on your turn anyway if you lose concentration.
Also you really need Warcaster on a sword and board Hexadin to work the shield spell effectively and that makes EM redundant.
At the end of the day, I go back to your statement-It is only as good as you get use out of. If you are playing a melee Paladin, I think Agonizing Blast will generally be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind will be.
You think you're never going to get hit in melee to break concentration? Agonizing blast would almost never be used on any of my melee characters. Your post...I'm just not going to say anymore. OP can do what he thinks is best.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
No I don't think that. I think exactly what I said - as a melee Paladin with Eldritch Blast; Agonizing Blast will be used a lot more often than Eldritch Mind.
Remember this character is basically a melee half caster with divine smite and the shield spell. You don't have many slots. Of the slots you have, a good portion of them will be used for smites and many of those that aren't used for smites will be used for shield. So at level 10 you are probably left with 3 or 4 spells you cast a day that are not shield, and some of them are probably not even concentration.
1. Eldritch Mind: For Eldritch Mind to matter at all, you need to cast one of your few slots on a concentration spell, you need to take damage, the spell needs to be in play when you take damage (i.e. if it is save or suck targeting an enemy he can't have made a save already), you would need to fail your save on your first d20 and succeed on your save on your second d20. All of those things need to happen for Eldritch Mind to matter and if you are only casting 3 or 4 spells a day (less at lower levels) that is not going to happen very often at all.
2. Agonizing Blast: For Agonizing Blast to matter you would need to hit on an attack roll with Eldritch Blast on a turn you can't get into melee.
On what is primarily a melee Paladin build, #2 will happen far more often than #1 IME.
Have you ever played a melee character with Eldritch Blast? If you have, I find it hard to believe you never used it. Like I said, I am playing one right now and I use EB frequently. I frequently either have to make a ranged attack or not attack at all and EB is by far the best ranged attack available on almost any melee character that has it.
wait... When you say "the Shield spell" do you mean "Shield of faith"?
Man, not long ago I finished a 1-20 eberron campaign where I played a hexadin. my build was 7 hexblade, 13 OoV paladin, utilizing elven accuracy and hexblade's curse to proc crits on a consistent basis and double smite with eldritch smite and divine smite. It was a fantastic burst damage build, and it had decent consist melee damage via GWM.
However, none of that counted for much towards the end as the maps kept getting bigger and wider and more spacious as the campaign progressed. Instead I found myself relying on EB so much that I took eldritch spear invocation and spell sniper feat after capping CHA.
my super-burst-gwm-heavy-hitter hexadin turned into a EB spammer at the end due to circumstance. It was highly effective, very safe, but sad and boring. Though, it highlights just so important it was to have EB + agonizing blast to stay effective from a distance, which was a lot of the time.
No if you have a level of Hexblade, the Shield spell is what you want.
Oh I see...
+5 AC? Yes please! looks like a great spell. I've also decided on invocations. I'm going with agonizing blast and devils sight. I think those are safe options. And because I'm taking war caster at level 5 (paladin level 4) I won't be taking the invocation. Fiendish vigor was very tempting, but I'll just stick to devils sight plus AB.