Ok, so I make a lot of homebrew subclasses for my games and not too long ago I finished up a Paladin subclass that was based around tracking and hunting down demons, pretty standard Paladin stuff with some features reminiscent of ranger with a divine twist. Anyway, while making it I realized I had never seen the Paladin's healing pool used for anything but exactly that. I understand it is a core feature of the class, but I was always confuse at why subclasses like Oathbreaker or even Vengeance still had it as plain healing when it really doesn't fit. So for the subclass I designed, I added a feature where the character could expend certain amounts from their healing pool to create different effects and such.
I'm just curious what others think of the concept and if anyone has any other ideas for how this mechanic could work. thoughts for balancing and even maybe some ideas for custom features using this idea that could be given to already made Paladin subclasses that don't really fit the healing build.
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Forever Dungeon Master and world builder at heart.
Oh how I long for the sweet release of playing a character I've made.
Because lay hands IS healing. The feature only exists because healing with a touch is a core of the paladin identity. If it doesn't do that, it's not a paladin. Period.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm just curious what others think of the concept and if anyone has any other ideas for how this mechanic could work. thoughts for balancing and even maybe some ideas for custom features using this idea that could be given to already made Paladin subclasses that don't really fit the healing build.
Interesting. That's how I view the idea. Letting it serve as a pool of power that all are capable of using to heal/cure... and some have learned to manipulate towards different ends is neat. I don't see an obvious problem because you are giving up healing, which is a similar argument to spell slots in my eyes.
Because lay hands IS healing. The feature only exists because healing with a touch is a core of the paladin identity. If it doesn't do that, it's not a paladin. Period.
Good thing then that they never said the paladin couldn't still use the health pool to heal.
What I am saying is that the point of the mechanic is to heal. Not to do something that makes no sense.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I didnt say they couldn't I said it doesn't make sense and shouldnt work the way he wants it to.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
it's not called gate keeping. It's call balancing and class fantasy.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
In 3e, there was the option to play as alternative alignment paladins instead of just LG - Freedom (CG), Slaughter (CE) and Tyranny (LE). The Paladin of Slaughter had the following ability:
Deadly Touch (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin of slaughter can cause wounds with a successful touch attack. Each day she can deal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her paladin level × her Charisma bonus. An opponent subjected to this attack can make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 paladin level + paladin's Cha modifier) to halve the damage dealt.
This one says slaughter, but there's an identical one for tyranny with the words swapped. Neither the 3e nor the 4e Blackguard had the option to Lay on Hands- the 3e version got sneak attacks and poison use in its place, while the 4e Blackguard got life-draining attacks.
Its also notable that the cleric has a healing touch spell... and an inflict wounds by touch spell as well.
it's not called gate keeping. It's call balancing and class fantasy.
When you attempt to prevent someone from doing something you disagree with solely because you disagree with it is gatekeeping. You haven't made another argument beyond just pointing out that it doesn't fit into how you feel about the class.
I and the OP have established that we have different views. Mephista has also pointed out that there were other versions in the past with a similar goal.
i think its dope and a great way for people to use another resource they have more fluidly that fits with a class! makes sense an Oathbreaker would be less caring about healing and more on the offensive could even see vengeance and conquest doing it too
Ok, so I make a lot of homebrew subclasses for my games and not too long ago I finished up a Paladin subclass that was based around tracking and hunting down demons, pretty standard Paladin stuff with some features reminiscent of ranger with a divine twist. Anyway, while making it I realized I had never seen the Paladin's healing pool used for anything but exactly that. I understand it is a core feature of the class, but I was always confuse at why subclasses like Oathbreaker or even Vengeance still had it as plain healing when it really doesn't fit. So for the subclass I designed, I added a feature where the character could expend certain amounts from their healing pool to create different effects and such.
I'm just curious what others think of the concept and if anyone has any other ideas for how this mechanic could work. thoughts for balancing and even maybe some ideas for custom features using this idea that could be given to already made Paladin subclasses that don't really fit the healing build.
Paladins have a very rigid class compared to others, with a very set line of rules. You’re rarely going to find anything unique in feature form it always has the spells, channel divinity, aura, and then transformation structure. Removing lay on hands from being a healing function is a biiig nerf to paladin - self healing, especially the giant pool of health they get just for free, is an amazing feature which is part of why the class is so strong. I don’t really know what else you would use it for, except for maybe applying damage? But lay on hands damage stacking on smite is incredibly overpowered especially at higher levels. For any other function, it would be extremely hard to balance (like sleep, for example, because of how weak it would be).
Lay on hands is also super useful because it cures diseases and poisons. RAW, 5 points of lay on hands can cure cancer.
Not using Lay on Hands for just healing is a cool concept but it’s not like wildshape or battlemaster dice. You get so much of it that it would be easier just to scrap the feature entirely and write a new one to replace it.
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— δ ψινο • the croc master • hε/hιm δ — “sᴏᴍᴇᴏɴᴇ, ɪ ᴛᴇʟʟ ʏᴏᴜ, ɪɴ ᴀɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀ ᴛɪᴍᴇ ᴡɪʟʟ ʀᴇᴍᴇᴍʙᴇʀ ᴜs.” ——————| EXTENDED SIG |—————— Φ • happily married to • ☁️ℝ𝔼𝔻ℙ𝔼𝕃𝕋☁️ • As vast as the sun, stars, and the sky itself, so is my promise to you • Φ
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Ok, so I make a lot of homebrew subclasses for my games and not too long ago I finished up a Paladin subclass that was based around tracking and hunting down demons, pretty standard Paladin stuff with some features reminiscent of ranger with a divine twist. Anyway, while making it I realized I had never seen the Paladin's healing pool used for anything but exactly that. I understand it is a core feature of the class, but I was always confuse at why subclasses like Oathbreaker or even Vengeance still had it as plain healing when it really doesn't fit. So for the subclass I designed, I added a feature where the character could expend certain amounts from their healing pool to create different effects and such.
I'm just curious what others think of the concept and if anyone has any other ideas for how this mechanic could work. thoughts for balancing and even maybe some ideas for custom features using this idea that could be given to already made Paladin subclasses that don't really fit the healing build.
Forever Dungeon Master and world builder at heart.
Oh how I long for the sweet release of playing a character I've made.
Because lay hands IS healing. The feature only exists because healing with a touch is a core of the paladin identity. If it doesn't do that, it's not a paladin. Period.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Interesting. That's how I view the idea. Letting it serve as a pool of power that all are capable of using to heal/cure... and some have learned to manipulate towards different ends is neat. I don't see an obvious problem because you are giving up healing, which is a similar argument to spell slots in my eyes.
Good thing then that they never said the paladin couldn't still use the health pool to heal.
What I am saying is that the point of the mechanic is to heal. Not to do something that makes no sense.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Like telling people they can't play a different flavor of a class?
I didnt say they couldn't I said it doesn't make sense and shouldnt work the way he wants it to.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, that's called gatekeeping.
What other people play in their games won't affect you.
You can play your healing only paladin. They can play their paladin.
it's not called gate keeping. It's call balancing and class fantasy.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
In 3e, there was the option to play as alternative alignment paladins instead of just LG - Freedom (CG), Slaughter (CE) and Tyranny (LE). The Paladin of Slaughter had the following ability:
This one says slaughter, but there's an identical one for tyranny with the words swapped. Neither the 3e nor the 4e Blackguard had the option to Lay on Hands- the 3e version got sneak attacks and poison use in its place, while the 4e Blackguard got life-draining attacks.
Its also notable that the cleric has a healing touch spell... and an inflict wounds by touch spell as well.
When you attempt to prevent someone from doing something you disagree with solely because you disagree with it is gatekeeping. You haven't made another argument beyond just pointing out that it doesn't fit into how you feel about the class.
I and the OP have established that we have different views. Mephista has also pointed out that there were other versions in the past with a similar goal.
i think its dope and a great way for people to use another resource they have more fluidly that fits with a class! makes sense an Oathbreaker would be less caring about healing and more on the offensive could even see vengeance and conquest doing it too
just an idea i had is if redemption paladin could use their healing hands to put people to sleep much how the sleep spell works?
wildshape from druid was made for shapeshifting into animals yet alot of their subclasses use it differently then its intended use.
Paladins have a very rigid class compared to others, with a very set line of rules. You’re rarely going to find anything unique in feature form it always has the spells, channel divinity, aura, and then transformation structure. Removing lay on hands from being a healing function is a biiig nerf to paladin - self healing, especially the giant pool of health they get just for free, is an amazing feature which is part of why the class is so strong. I don’t really know what else you would use it for, except for maybe applying damage? But lay on hands damage stacking on smite is incredibly overpowered especially at higher levels. For any other function, it would be extremely hard to balance (like sleep, for example, because of how weak it would be).
Lay on hands is also super useful because it cures diseases and poisons. RAW, 5 points of lay on hands can cure cancer.
Not using Lay on Hands for just healing is a cool concept but it’s not like wildshape or battlemaster dice. You get so much of it that it would be easier just to scrap the feature entirely and write a new one to replace it.
— δ ψινο • the croc master • hε/hιm δ —
“sᴏᴍᴇᴏɴᴇ, ɪ ᴛᴇʟʟ ʏᴏᴜ, ɪɴ ᴀɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀ ᴛɪᴍᴇ ᴡɪʟʟ ʀᴇᴍᴇᴍʙᴇʀ ᴜs.”
——————| EXTENDED SIG |——————
Φ • happily married to • ☁️ℝ𝔼𝔻ℙ𝔼𝕃𝕋☁️ • As vast as the sun, stars, and the sky itself, so is my promise to you • Φ