So, I have an idea for a character. Having trouble deciding on the mechanics. Game will be a level 7 game
The character is a Krynn minotaur. Background/personality: The character is a former ship chef who dreams of being a hero like Huma and Kaz. Follower of Kir-Jolith. he joined the ship crew to see the world
In combat he will be using two weapons, and a strong dex.
I rolled well on stats: 9, 10, 13, 16, 18: Right now, I have them S: 13, D: 20, C: 16, I:9, W:10, C 16. This includes racial modifiers and the Cheff Bonus to Con. We were allowed a +1 item, I chose studded leather +1. With his Dex this puts his AC to 19, and I like the leather with the sailor background.
As of right now I am going Rogue 1/Bard 2/ Vengeance Paladin 4 as I like high skill characters (+3 skills, 2 expertise, plus bardic ability Jack of all trades). However still playing around with what I want.
What is rogue bringing into this? I'd think vengeance 5 and bard 2 would be better. Heck, vengeance 6/ bard 1 would be more optimal imo, because you want that aura. But you be you, play the character you want! :)
What is rogue bringing into this? I'd think vengeance 5 and bard 2 would be better. Heck, vengeance 6/ bard 1 would be more optimal imo, because you want that aura. But you be you, play the character you want! :)
At level 7 not a lot honestly. I do like the level abilities at a higher level (Uncanny dodge, Evasion). Chose to go with it at level 1 because I value the extra skill over what the other two classes gain for being level 1. GM is saying we will get to 20 (I doubt it)
I highly value skills, So the Jack of all trades and Expertiece from Rogue are valued by me.
Basically, I am debating 4 builds. GM asked that we had a non-binding idea of our level 20 build. Mine is a Level 8 Swashbuckler Rogue, 6 Level Sword Bard, 6 level Vengeance or devotion Paladin. So, with that in mind these are the 4 level 7 builds I keep going between
Rogue 1/Paladin 6
Rogue 1/ Bard 6
Rogue 1/ Paladin 4/ Bard 2
Rogue 1/ bard 4/ Paladin 2
Nice thing about the first two is that it gets me the extra attack and the abilities of the class. Bard heavy builds of course get me the skills up quicker (Level 3 in Bard gets me all the skill bumps), Paladin 6 of course is AMAZING. Bard 6 gets me everything Paladin 5 does and more (extra attack, countercharm, a level of spell casting...). The two mixed options are a bit of how much are you giving up for now...
Usually you mix bard in with paladin to up your smites. Option 4 gives you the best smites over all while option 1 lets you get them out a little faster and option 3 mostly has the advantage of getting your paladin subclass. As far as extra attack goes it's a little complicated. When all or most of your damage is coming from the attack action then extra attack doubles your damage but this isn't the case for your build. You get, in addition to the attack action, a sneak attack, smites, and a bonus action attack so giving up extra attack is closer to a 15% to 20% drop in damage than the standard 50%. Personally I would go with option 4 and just take bard to 17 from there.
Edit* The only way you get two weapon fighting is from bard 3 so I would say option 2 and 4 are your only real choices. If you go with 4 you can get guidance from the paladin style holy warrior.
Usually you mix bard in with paladin to up your smites. Option 4 gives you the best smites over all while option 1 lets you get them out a little faster and option 3 mostly has the advantage of getting your paladin subclass. As far as extra attack goes it's a little complicated. When all or most of your damage is coming from the attack action then extra attack doubles your damage but this isn't the case for your build. You get, in addition to the attack action, a sneak attack, smites, and a bonus action attack so giving up extra attack is closer to a 15% to 20% drop in damage than the standard 50%. Personally I would go with option 4 and just take bard to 17 from there.
Edit* The only way you get two weapon fighting is from bard 3 so I would say option 2 and 4 are your only real choices. If you go with 4 you can get guidance from the paladin style holy warrior.
I know people will hate it, plan is (sword) Bard 6/ (Vengeance or Devotion) Paladin 6/ (Swashbuckler) Rogue 8
I guess my question for you is: how much do you value that aura of protection? How much do you value the swashbuckler’s 3rd level abilities because that’s all you’re really getting from it.
my main issue is I’m not really seeing the benefits of your end game build. Like, sure you gain access to a single 5th level spell slot with your build, but you only ever have third level spells.
meanwhile, the wizard can create a simulacrum of the cleric and a clone of the zealot barbarian who’s unkillable.
if you want to be the skill monkey of the group who can do solid damage, a better build is rogue 1, paladin 2, and the rest into swords bard. This way you’re keeping up with the game’s progression instead of achieving a mishmash of minor milestones while everyone else is getting crazy powerful.
wasn't trying to hate on your build just trowing out my 2 cents. I do think of the starting options for level 7 R1, P2, B4 is the best if you want to fight with 2 weapons. Paladins do not get the two weapon fighting style but swords bards do. If you have access to tashas you can get holy warrior with your paladin fighting style for 2 cleric cantrips. That gets you guidance which can help with your skill checks.
wasn't trying to hate on your build just trowing out my 2 cents. I do think of the starting options for level 7 R1, P2, B4 is the best if you want to fight with 2 weapons. Paladins do not get the two weapon fighting style but swords bards do. If you have access to tashas you can get holy warrior with your paladin fighting style for 2 cleric cantrips. That gets you guidance which can help with your skill checks.
No probs, I tend to "debate" as a way of thinking things through. I have taken nothing said as being anything other than helpful.
I was thinking defensive as the Paladin fighting style but will definitely consider Holy warrior. This character is (in my head) more a Martial than a spellcaster. Maybe I would be happier with a strait Paladin or fighter, not sure. Like I said I like skill monkeys, and the group has a weakness for a face (which a minotaur does not strike me as, but...). Note being two weapon (unless I take warcaster) will limit my spellcasting A LOT. Still messing around. The build right now has dropped Rogue (till later). Concentrating on Paladin/Bard to get to my "Combat Weight" then going from there. I was really looking at the rogue stuff more for the defensive abilities they get at 5 and 7, bot h leaning into the quick and agile (Erol Flynn) type I see him in combat...
wasn't trying to hate on your build just trowing out my 2 cents. I do think of the starting options for level 7 R1, P2, B4 is the best if you want to fight with 2 weapons. Paladins do not get the two weapon fighting style but swords bards do. If you have access to tashas you can get holy warrior with your paladin fighting style for 2 cleric cantrips. That gets you guidance which can help with your skill checks.
Note being two weapon (unless I take warcaster) will limit my spellcasting A LOT.
Actually, because swords bard can use any weapon they’re proficient with as a spell casting focus, your spell casting suffers very little. The only times it’s awkward is when you have spells that lack a material component, but include a somatic and verbal component. Otherwise you totally can cast spells with holding two swords. Even then, it’s rarely an issue because you’re presumably using your action to cast a spell on that turn, so you can use a free action to drop your offhand weapon, cast the spell as needed with the verbal and somatic component, then use your item interaction to pick your weapon back up.
your character could even reflavor the entire item juggling process as tossing up his sword, doing the hand signs, then catching it as he completes the casting. Wouldn’t that be cool?
Love the idea of throwing his Cutlas (The scimitar reflavored) into the air, casting the spell and catching it, though after a couple times it would be silly....
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So, I have an idea for a character. Having trouble deciding on the mechanics. Game will be a level 7 game
The character is a Krynn minotaur. Background/personality: The character is a former ship chef who dreams of being a hero like Huma and Kaz. Follower of Kir-Jolith. he joined the ship crew to see the world
In combat he will be using two weapons, and a strong dex.
I rolled well on stats: 9, 10, 13, 16, 18: Right now, I have them S: 13, D: 20, C: 16, I:9, W:10, C 16. This includes racial modifiers and the Cheff Bonus to Con. We were allowed a +1 item, I chose studded leather +1. With his Dex this puts his AC to 19, and I like the leather with the sailor background.
As of right now I am going Rogue 1/Bard 2/ Vengeance Paladin 4 as I like high skill characters (+3 skills, 2 expertise, plus bardic ability Jack of all trades). However still playing around with what I want.
Level 7… and still lacking extra attack as a martial? Might want to rethink that one.
It is a concern, we do have a Fighter/Barbarian in the group as well however
What is rogue bringing into this? I'd think vengeance 5 and bard 2 would be better. Heck, vengeance 6/ bard 1 would be more optimal imo, because you want that aura. But you be you, play the character you want! :)
At level 7 not a lot honestly. I do like the level abilities at a higher level (Uncanny dodge, Evasion). Chose to go with it at level 1 because I value the extra skill over what the other two classes gain for being level 1. GM is saying we will get to 20 (I doubt it)
I highly value skills, So the Jack of all trades and Expertiece from Rogue are valued by me.
You’d be better off doing something like rogue 1 with valor/swords bard 6.
Gee had a lot I accidentally deleted
Basically, I am debating 4 builds. GM asked that we had a non-binding idea of our level 20 build. Mine is a Level 8 Swashbuckler Rogue, 6 Level Sword Bard, 6 level Vengeance or devotion Paladin. So, with that in mind these are the 4 level 7 builds I keep going between
Nice thing about the first two is that it gets me the extra attack and the abilities of the class. Bard heavy builds of course get me the skills up quicker (Level 3 in Bard gets me all the skill bumps), Paladin 6 of course is AMAZING. Bard 6 gets me everything Paladin 5 does and more (extra attack, countercharm, a level of spell casting...). The two mixed options are a bit of how much are you giving up for now...
Usually you mix bard in with paladin to up your smites. Option 4 gives you the best smites over all while option 1 lets you get them out a little faster and option 3 mostly has the advantage of getting your paladin subclass. As far as extra attack goes it's a little complicated. When all or most of your damage is coming from the attack action then extra attack doubles your damage but this isn't the case for your build. You get, in addition to the attack action, a sneak attack, smites, and a bonus action attack so giving up extra attack is closer to a 15% to 20% drop in damage than the standard 50%. Personally I would go with option 4 and just take bard to 17 from there.
Edit* The only way you get two weapon fighting is from bard 3 so I would say option 2 and 4 are your only real choices. If you go with 4 you can get guidance from the paladin style holy warrior.
I know people will hate it, plan is (sword) Bard 6/ (Vengeance or Devotion) Paladin 6/ (Swashbuckler) Rogue 8
I guess my question for you is: how much do you value that aura of protection? How much do you value the swashbuckler’s 3rd level abilities because that’s all you’re really getting from it.
my main issue is I’m not really seeing the benefits of your end game build. Like, sure you gain access to a single 5th level spell slot with your build, but you only ever have third level spells.
meanwhile, the wizard can create a simulacrum of the cleric and a clone of the zealot barbarian who’s unkillable.
if you want to be the skill monkey of the group who can do solid damage, a better build is rogue 1, paladin 2, and the rest into swords bard. This way you’re keeping up with the game’s progression instead of achieving a mishmash of minor milestones while everyone else is getting crazy powerful.
Was looking at the defensive rogue abilities of level 5 and 7 of rogue
wasn't trying to hate on your build just trowing out my 2 cents. I do think of the starting options for level 7 R1, P2, B4 is the best if you want to fight with 2 weapons. Paladins do not get the two weapon fighting style but swords bards do. If you have access to tashas you can get holy warrior with your paladin fighting style for 2 cleric cantrips. That gets you guidance which can help with your skill checks.
Quote from waddingsly >>
No probs, I tend to "debate" as a way of thinking things through. I have taken nothing said as being anything other than helpful.
I was thinking defensive as the Paladin fighting style but will definitely consider Holy warrior. This character is (in my head) more a Martial than a spellcaster. Maybe I would be happier with a strait Paladin or fighter, not sure. Like I said I like skill monkeys, and the group has a weakness for a face (which a minotaur does not strike me as, but...). Note being two weapon (unless I take warcaster) will limit my spellcasting A LOT. Still messing around. The build right now has dropped Rogue (till later). Concentrating on Paladin/Bard to get to my "Combat Weight" then going from there. I was really looking at the rogue stuff more for the defensive abilities they get at 5 and 7, bot h leaning into the quick and agile (Erol Flynn) type I see him in combat...
Actually, because swords bard can use any weapon they’re proficient with as a spell casting focus, your spell casting suffers very little. The only times it’s awkward is when you have spells that lack a material component, but include a somatic and verbal component. Otherwise you totally can cast spells with holding two swords. Even then, it’s rarely an issue because you’re presumably using your action to cast a spell on that turn, so you can use a free action to drop your offhand weapon, cast the spell as needed with the verbal and somatic component, then use your item interaction to pick your weapon back up.
your character could even reflavor the entire item juggling process as tossing up his sword, doing the hand signs, then catching it as he completes the casting. Wouldn’t that be cool?
Love the idea of throwing his Cutlas (The scimitar reflavored) into the air, casting the spell and catching it, though after a couple times it would be silly....