This is the team for my first real campaign. Session zero is this Tuesday. I normally run a Verdan Celestial Warlock for our oneshots, but there is already a part Warlock in our campaign and I’m not sure how far down that road he is going. Grant it, there could be some synergy with darkness, but I feel like I need to focus on healing/support anyway.
I did get an Incubus figure as a gift recently, so part of me was thinking of running a Zariel Paladin of some kind, but this would be my first time using one. I have made some Paladin builds in the past, but they are all custom lineage and hypothetical. I’m really bot sure what to do without both Warcaster and maximizing my Charisma and Strength.
So what do you fellow champions of the light think? Should I stay with what i know in the Warlock pact I have with the Celestials, or should I venture forth into being a Paladin for the first time in my first real campaign? Please let me know any advice you would give me. Thank you!
What level are you looking to play at for the one shot?
It sounds like the party is relatively well rounded already so you could literally play anything. With a bard, you already have some support/healing going on and if the Air Genasi is a sorcerer/warlock multiclass then they will have a bit of healing too. you also have the option of the Paladin/warlock multiclass too, A conquest paladin dedicated to the raven queen who has a hexblade patron or an oathbroken paladin who made a deal with an evil fiend.
Personally, I had a lot of fun playing a paladin. More than I had playing a warlock, but I usually enjoy martials more anyway. That group does seem pretty well rounded, but a second tank can be very helpful if you have multiple enemies.
Another thing to consider would be a wizard or artificer so you can have someone in the party with a really good int. The AT will have an ok int, but not like you would.
As far as asi on a pally, you can just skip warcaster. Most all your spell slots will go to smiting, anyway (this might shake out differently if you’re using the 24 rules). You can probably get by with about a 14 cha and do pretty well, then pump str. Or, use an odd cha score with plans for fey touched at some point. The extra mobility from misty step is crazy useful, and you can take your horse with you.
We’re starting at level 3. Our DM hasn’t said how long specifically, but it wounds like a long term campaign for what that’s worth.
I was honestly worried it wouldn’t be without a proper tank or healer, but I am new at this, so I’ll trust you on that.
I’ve heard a lot of good things about the Conquest/Hexblade. I’m just not sure I should multiclass being so new to the build. Grant it, I tried a Divine Soul/Hexblade once in a oneshot, but couldn’t figure out what to do besides spiritual weapon and eldritch blast, so my metamagic kept going unused and I felt like I wasn’t doing it right. Anyway…
I was thinking about a Paladin serving as part tank and part support/healing.
I never thought about an intellect class. Artificer seems kind of complex with all of its’ enchantment's. I could use help deciding on which ones to take for my hypothetical build. As for Wizard, i don’t have acess to the one I would like (Chronergy Magic) (I’ll have to double check that) so I would need help deciding a subclass.
Yeah, in hindsight I don’t need Warcaster. I had that stuck in my brain from my first “paladin” build (a Conquest 2/Lore 18 build). This is indeed with ‘14 rules. With my alternate Incubus figure I think I would go for Fey Touched to round my Charisma off like you implied.
Thank you both for your fast replies!
Any more advice about the Paladin or these new options are welcome.
It's a good mix for level 3, you wouldn't get conquest tho as you'd need paladin 3 for the Oath. With Standard Array and Custom Origins, I'd go for +2 (14), +0 (10), +2(13+1), -1(8), +1(12), +3(15+2). Since I do not know what you intend to base an Incubus character off of, or just use Custom Origins. If plate armour is on the table, I'd switch the +1 score to strength.
this is a very solid build for a Paladin/Hexblade multiclass.
Past paladin/warlock, something that may be another consideration, that is the Circle of the Moon Druid, it's very power at level 3, it has support+healing spells and can tank very well with wildshape. It doesn't fit so much with an Incubus, but if you want a tanky character with support+healing options, it sits as a good choice too.
Resistance offers a good suggestion, and it can really work, but for me, personal preference on paladin would be go straight to level 6 before you consider a multiclass, as the aura is so good. I would not delay that, not to mention the second attack at level 5.
And pallys are mostly tank and burst damage. Your healing is usually best for getting people up (I guess that’s true for most people). Typically you heal the main healer if they drop, as lay on hands uses your action. But it can be really great for topping people up as you can choose exactly how much to give. And great at higher levels where you can give someone a ton of healing at once.
If you're thinking Pally/Warlock multiclass, especially if you're thinking Conquest Pally, you have to take a long look at Undead 'lock. It takes a bit to come on line, but... damn.
You all make tempting arguments. On one hand I agree with not wanting to multiclass too soon, but that combination in the beginning seems quite potent! The only hiccup there is I believe they plan to roll for the players stats.
I’m not sure about playing a druid. Not only does it not really fit with a green skin (ironically) or an Incubus (Tiefling), but i’m still very new and there are so many wild shapes. If I change to something besides the Paladin or back to Warlock it might be Wizard like suggested earlier.
I’m still on the fence though as far as what my party needs most (if anything). Grant it, the more ideas I have prepared the better for session zero, but I would sort of like to narrow it down accordingly. Also, I’d like to have a plan for leveling up, especially if I am multiclassing Conquest and either Undead or Hexblade, so what kind of max level build should I go with?
Sorry if this counts as bumping my own thread, but there have been new developments that I need help on, and it didn’t make sense to me to make another thread.
I think I’ve decided to go with the Zariel Tiefling Paladin. I origionally wanted to go with Oath of the Crown. It has a lot of good spells and abilities, and even the bad ones can be really good situationally. However, after rolling for stats I got 16, 14, 14, 13, 12 and 12. I’m not really sure what to do with these numbers and the race I chose. I don’t normally have access to this particular kind of Tiefling (+2 Cha, +1 Strength). Plus I’d like the chance to do some crits with the classic more broken Paladin before anyone switches to ‘24 rules. He’ll be an older solider with experience making his way to the top.
Here’s a link to the character page I will be using for the campaign, so as long as it works you all can see how I’m doing and possibly provide additional feedback.
So, I assume I should put my highest stat of 16 with my +2 bonus to get 18. That would be my Charisma. Also, since I got an odd number, I thought I should put that with my +1 bonus, which is strength. However, this leaves my Strength and Constitution at an average 13 plus 1 and 14, while my Charisma is above the normal at 16 plus 2. Is this the right way to go about my stat distribution?
If so, what paladin subclass relies the most on Charisma? Or is that even an option with my party’s current composition?:
Owlin Arcane Trickster
(Homebrew Race + 2 Strength and Con) Artillerist
Air Genasi Divine Soul/Genie
Aarakokra Fighter?
(The Monk had to leave the campaign. The Changeling Lore discovered the homebrew race due to my big mouth, but then again we kind of needed a more intellect based class than the Arcane Trickster. Finally there is a CHANCE that there will be up to 3 more players if they fill the empty slots.)
One possible issue is I thought my strength score had to be so high to wear certain armor. Can someone elaborate on that for me please?
I would like to stick with Tiefling since that is the only other character game piece I own besides my main (he asked us to pick something different from our normal characters), a succubus and an imp. Plus the Incubus I am using along with the succubus and imp were a sort of gift from my dad.
So yeah, stat distribution and best class/subclass for a generic tiefling with those party members and interchangeable stats of 16, 14, 14, 13, 12 and 12.
A pally is a good choice for any party. I’d stick with it here. Any of the oaths will be good as well, choose one that will be fun for you — that’s way more important than party balance.
I’d put the 16 in str (for an 17) and a 14 in cha (for a 16). A 16 cha is plenty good. Then a 14 in con, a 12 in dex, 13 wis and 12 int. The idea is generally to get your main attack stat high, not just get a stat high. So you want to pump up your str.
At level 4, round up str and wis. (I like to keep wis high as a failed wis save is usually really bad news.) Or at 4, you take a 1/2 feat to round up your str.
You need a 15 str to wear plate mail, is probably what people were talking about. I think it’s a 13 for chain mail. Either way, you won’t have a problem.
Your DM should not allow that homebrew race. A +2 in str and con is crazy.
A pally is a good choice for any party. I’d stick with it here. Any of the oaths will be good as well, choose one that will be fun for you — that’s way more important than party balance.
I’d put the 16 in str (for an 17) and a 14 in cha (for a 16). A 16 cha is plenty good. Then a 14 in con, a 12 in dex, 13 wis and 12 int. The idea is generally to get your main attack stat high, not just get a stat high. So you want to pump up your str.
At level 4, round up str and wis. (I like to keep wis high as a failed wis save is usually really bad news.) Or at 4, you take a 1/2 feat to round up your str.
You need a 15 str to wear plate mail, is probably what people were talking about. I think it’s a 13 for chain mail. Either way, you won’t have a problem.
Your DM should not allow that homebrew race. A +2 in str and con is crazy.
Lol yeah, it’s got even more crazy stuff. He can pick his own kind of armor (including heavy armor) to be proficient in! It’s suppose to he based on the Vampire Originals.
Anyway, good idea with the splitting ASI. I’ll give that a shot! (Of course, I’m open to other ideas too people!)
So after Str/Wis at 4 I figure I go +2 strength at 8. What would you recommend for feats/ASI past level 8?
I’d put the 16 in str (for an 17) and a 14 in cha (for a 16). A 16 cha is plenty good. Then a 14 in con, a 12 in dex, 13 wis and 12 int. The idea is generally to get your main attack stat high, not just get a stat high. So you want to pump up your str.
At level 4, round up str and wis. (I like to keep wis high as a failed wis save is usually really bad news.) Or at 4, you take a 1/2 feat to round up your str.
I'd be tempted to switch Dex and Wis, since you already have PB to WIS and CHA saving throws, it opens up picking up Resilient (dexterity) later on to get PB on DEX saves too and to get that +2 initiative. Unless going polearms, I'd agree that picking up a half feat at 4 is definitely the optimum choice, Crusher, Piercer, Slasher or heavy armour master are I think the one's I'd look at.
I have since considered getting pole-arms but cant decide between glaive and halberd or my serrated saber. Anyway, It’s a bit messy, but I tried out your idea on a hypothetical character sheet. It’s feats are slasher, +2 strength, Resilient (Dexterity), + 2 Charisma and +2 Charisma. I figure this way instead of maxing out constitution i would at least be able to max out my charisma.
Why are you maxing out charisma? It’s not bad, and definitely the save bonuses are great, it’s just a big investment. You could also go with 2 cha 1/2 feats, like fey touched and telekinetic (or something) to give you some more options of things to do. Your cha won’t be quite as high, but you’ll get some cool toys.
And resistance has a good idea with HAM. Though I’d only do that using the ‘24 version. The ‘14 HAM value really drops off in teir 2 when most of your enemies have magic attacks.
I should have asked, what levrr we l are you playing to? Most campaigns end in the 10-12 or 13 range.
If going Polearm, then the assumption would be Polearm Master at 4 (you'd probably sacrifice a +2 charima later on for this), Sentinel is the usual pick but some DMs ban that just due to the OPness of that combo. Slasher would work as a more DM friendly option, when used with Glaive a, the -10 foot movement once per turn gives slightly better area control, since PAM reaction is not on your own turn, it means you can basically do it twice a round.
If not going polearm, but something like longsword and shield, then that combo would make an extremely sturdy character who would probably be making a significantly higher amount of saving throws,
I guess I just figured I’d try to make what stats I could as good as possible. I’m definitely open to taking some feats instead. I guess part of me is worried about remembering everything, but I obviously want to be as good as possible.
Speaking of which, our DM has basically said anything goes, so if sentinel is that good perhaps I should consider a build based around that. I could still take slasher to bump up my strength score. The only downside is I would be stuck with that 13 stat for so long.
Oh, and I’m pretty sure if we can we’re going all the way to 20. We’re starting at level 3.
There’s a part of me that would rather go longsword and shield (is the Cerated Saber not that good?) because I may be the only “tank” due to my subclass (Oath of the Crown) and the only other “tanky” build would be the fighter, whom I think is wanting to go Eldritch Knight anyway.
My original build was going feat-less, rounding out my 2 odd scores, then maxing strength, and just pumping my Constitution after that. Again, I am open to feats; I guess I just don’t understand or appreciate all of their value compared to solid stat boosts. Plus like I said feats are more to remember.
I guess my next question is what would you recommend feat/ASI related for a tankier build?
Taxabi: Way of the Four Elements
Owlin: Arcane Trickster
Changeling: College of Lore
Air Genasi: Divine Soul/Genie
Aarakokra: Fighter?
This is the team for my first real campaign. Session zero is this Tuesday. I normally run a Verdan Celestial Warlock for our oneshots, but there is already a part Warlock in our campaign and I’m not sure how far down that road he is going. Grant it, there could be some synergy with darkness, but I feel like I need to focus on healing/support anyway.
I did get an Incubus figure as a gift recently, so part of me was thinking of running a Zariel Paladin of some kind, but this would be my first time using one. I have made some Paladin builds in the past, but they are all custom lineage and hypothetical. I’m really bot sure what to do without both Warcaster and maximizing my Charisma and Strength.
So what do you fellow champions of the light think? Should I stay with what i know in the Warlock pact I have with the Celestials, or should I venture forth into being a Paladin for the first time in my first real campaign? Please let me know any advice you would give me. Thank you!
What level are you looking to play at for the one shot?
It sounds like the party is relatively well rounded already so you could literally play anything. With a bard, you already have some support/healing going on and if the Air Genasi is a sorcerer/warlock multiclass then they will have a bit of healing too. you also have the option of the Paladin/warlock multiclass too, A conquest paladin dedicated to the raven queen who has a hexblade patron or an oathbroken paladin who made a deal with an evil fiend.
Personally, I had a lot of fun playing a paladin. More than I had playing a warlock, but I usually enjoy martials more anyway. That group does seem pretty well rounded, but a second tank can be very helpful if you have multiple enemies.
Another thing to consider would be a wizard or artificer so you can have someone in the party with a really good int. The AT will have an ok int, but not like you would.
As far as asi on a pally, you can just skip warcaster. Most all your spell slots will go to smiting, anyway (this might shake out differently if you’re using the 24 rules). You can probably get by with about a 14 cha and do pretty well, then pump str. Or, use an odd cha score with plans for fey touched at some point. The extra mobility from misty step is crazy useful, and you can take your horse with you.
We’re starting at level 3. Our DM hasn’t said how long specifically, but it wounds like a long term campaign for what that’s worth.
I was honestly worried it wouldn’t be without a proper tank or healer, but I am new at this, so I’ll trust you on that.
I’ve heard a lot of good things about the Conquest/Hexblade. I’m just not sure I should multiclass being so new to the build. Grant it, I tried a Divine Soul/Hexblade once in a oneshot, but couldn’t figure out what to do besides spiritual weapon and eldritch blast, so my metamagic kept going unused and I felt like I wasn’t doing it right. Anyway…
I was thinking about a Paladin serving as part tank and part support/healing.
I never thought about an intellect class. Artificer seems kind of complex with all of its’ enchantment's. I could use help deciding on which ones to take for my hypothetical build. As for Wizard, i don’t have acess to the one I would like (Chronergy Magic) (I’ll have to double check that) so I would need help deciding a subclass.
Yeah, in hindsight I don’t need Warcaster. I had that stuck in my brain from my first “paladin” build (a Conquest 2/Lore 18 build). This is indeed with ‘14 rules. With my alternate Incubus figure I think I would go for Fey Touched to round my Charisma off like you implied.
Thank you both for your fast replies!
Any more advice about the Paladin or these new options are welcome.
So if you get Paladin 2/Warlock (Hexblade 1), you'd get:
Paladin 2: Divine Sense (campaign dependent), Lay on Hands (10HP/day), A fighting Style, Paladin spellcasting & Divine Smite
Hexblade 1: Pact Magic, Hexblade's Curse, Hex Warrior.
It's a good mix for level 3, you wouldn't get conquest tho as you'd need paladin 3 for the Oath. With Standard Array and Custom Origins, I'd go for +2 (14), +0 (10), +2(13+1), -1(8), +1(12), +3(15+2). Since I do not know what you intend to base an Incubus character off of, or just use Custom Origins. If plate armour is on the table, I'd switch the +1 score to strength.
this is a very solid build for a Paladin/Hexblade multiclass.
Past paladin/warlock, something that may be another consideration, that is the Circle of the Moon Druid, it's very power at level 3, it has support+healing spells and can tank very well with wildshape. It doesn't fit so much with an Incubus, but if you want a tanky character with support+healing options, it sits as a good choice too.
Resistance offers a good suggestion, and it can really work, but for me, personal preference on paladin would be go straight to level 6 before you consider a multiclass, as the aura is so good. I would not delay that, not to mention the second attack at level 5.
And pallys are mostly tank and burst damage. Your healing is usually best for getting people up (I guess that’s true for most people). Typically you heal the main healer if they drop, as lay on hands uses your action. But it can be really great for topping people up as you can choose exactly how much to give. And great at higher levels where you can give someone a ton of healing at once.
If you're thinking Pally/Warlock multiclass, especially if you're thinking Conquest Pally, you have to take a long look at Undead 'lock. It takes a bit to come on line, but... damn.
You all make tempting arguments. On one hand I agree with not wanting to multiclass too soon, but that combination in the beginning seems quite potent! The only hiccup there is I believe they plan to roll for the players stats.
I’m not sure about playing a druid. Not only does it not really fit with a green skin (ironically) or an Incubus (Tiefling), but i’m still very new and there are so many wild shapes. If I change to something besides the Paladin or back to Warlock it might be Wizard like suggested earlier.
I’m still on the fence though as far as what my party needs most (if anything). Grant it, the more ideas I have prepared the better for session zero, but I would sort of like to narrow it down accordingly. Also, I’d like to have a plan for leveling up, especially if I am multiclassing Conquest and either Undead or Hexblade, so what kind of max level build should I go with?
Sorry if this counts as bumping my own thread, but there have been new developments that I need help on, and it didn’t make sense to me to make another thread.
I think I’ve decided to go with the Zariel Tiefling Paladin. I origionally wanted to go with Oath of the Crown. It has a lot of good spells and abilities, and even the bad ones can be really good situationally. However, after rolling for stats I got 16, 14, 14, 13, 12 and 12. I’m not really sure what to do with these numbers and the race I chose. I don’t normally have access to this particular kind of Tiefling (+2 Cha, +1 Strength). Plus I’d like the chance to do some crits with the classic more broken Paladin before anyone switches to ‘24 rules. He’ll be an older solider with experience making his way to the top.
Here’s a link to the character page I will be using for the campaign, so as long as it works you all can see how I’m doing and possibly provide additional feedback.
www.dndbeyond.com/sheet-pdfs/Actionsparda_129017634.pdf
So, I assume I should put my highest stat of 16 with my +2 bonus to get 18. That would be my Charisma. Also, since I got an odd number, I thought I should put that with my +1 bonus, which is strength. However, this leaves my Strength and Constitution at an average 13 plus 1 and 14, while my Charisma is above the normal at 16 plus 2. Is this the right way to go about my stat distribution?
If so, what paladin subclass relies the most on Charisma? Or is that even an option with my party’s current composition?:
Owlin Arcane Trickster
(Homebrew Race + 2 Strength and Con) Artillerist
Air Genasi Divine Soul/Genie
Aarakokra Fighter?
(The Monk had to leave the campaign. The Changeling Lore discovered the homebrew race due to my big mouth, but then again we kind of needed a more intellect based class than the Arcane Trickster. Finally there is a CHANCE that there will be up to 3 more players if they fill the empty slots.)
One possible issue is I thought my strength score had to be so high to wear certain armor. Can someone elaborate on that for me please?
I would like to stick with Tiefling since that is the only other character game piece I own besides my main (he asked us to pick something different from our normal characters), a succubus and an imp. Plus the Incubus I am using along with the succubus and imp were a sort of gift from my dad.
So yeah, stat distribution and best class/subclass for a generic tiefling with those party members and interchangeable stats of 16, 14, 14, 13, 12 and 12.
A pally is a good choice for any party. I’d stick with it here. Any of the oaths will be good as well, choose one that will be fun for you — that’s way more important than party balance.
I’d put the 16 in str (for an 17) and a 14 in cha (for a 16). A 16 cha is plenty good. Then a 14 in con, a 12 in dex, 13 wis and 12 int. The idea is generally to get your main attack stat high, not just get a stat high. So you want to pump up your str.
At level 4, round up str and wis. (I like to keep wis high as a failed wis save is usually really bad news.) Or at 4, you take a 1/2 feat to round up your str.
You need a 15 str to wear plate mail, is probably what people were talking about. I think it’s a 13 for chain mail. Either way, you won’t have a problem.
Your DM should not allow that homebrew race. A +2 in str and con is crazy.
Lol yeah, it’s got even more crazy stuff. He can pick his own kind of armor (including heavy armor) to be proficient in! It’s suppose to he based on the Vampire Originals.
Anyway, good idea with the splitting ASI. I’ll give that a shot! (Of course, I’m open to other ideas too people!)
So after Str/Wis at 4 I figure I go +2 strength at 8. What would you recommend for feats/ASI past level 8?
I'd be tempted to switch Dex and Wis, since you already have PB to WIS and CHA saving throws, it opens up picking up Resilient (dexterity) later on to get PB on DEX saves too and to get that +2 initiative. Unless going polearms, I'd agree that picking up a half feat at 4 is definitely the optimum choice, Crusher, Piercer, Slasher or heavy armour master are I think the one's I'd look at.
I have since considered getting pole-arms but cant decide between glaive and halberd or my serrated saber.
Anyway, It’s a bit messy, but I tried out your idea on a hypothetical character sheet. It’s feats are slasher, +2 strength, Resilient (Dexterity), + 2 Charisma and +2 Charisma. I figure this way instead of maxing out constitution i would at least be able to max out my charisma.
What do you all think?
Why are you maxing out charisma? It’s not bad, and definitely the save bonuses are great, it’s just a big investment.
You could also go with 2 cha 1/2 feats, like fey touched and telekinetic (or something) to give you some more options of things to do. Your cha won’t be quite as high, but you’ll get some cool toys.
And resistance has a good idea with HAM. Though I’d only do that using the ‘24 version. The ‘14 HAM value really drops off in teir 2 when most of your enemies have magic attacks.
I should have asked, what levrr we l are you playing to? Most campaigns end in the 10-12 or 13 range.
If going Polearm, then the assumption would be Polearm Master at 4 (you'd probably sacrifice a +2 charima later on for this), Sentinel is the usual pick but some DMs ban that just due to the OPness of that combo. Slasher would work as a more DM friendly option, when used with Glaive a, the -10 foot movement once per turn gives slightly better area control, since PAM reaction is not on your own turn, it means you can basically do it twice a round.
If not going polearm, but something like longsword and shield, then that combo would make an extremely sturdy character who would probably be making a significantly higher amount of saving throws,
I guess I just figured I’d try to make what stats I could as good as possible. I’m definitely open to taking some feats instead. I guess part of me is worried about remembering everything, but I obviously want to be as good as possible.
Speaking of which, our DM has basically said anything goes, so if sentinel is that good perhaps I should consider a build based around that. I could still take slasher to bump up my strength score. The only downside is I would be stuck with that 13 stat for so long.
Oh, and I’m pretty sure if we can we’re going all the way to 20. We’re starting at level 3.
There’s a part of me that would rather go longsword and shield (is the Cerated Saber not that good?) because I may be the only “tank” due to my subclass (Oath of the Crown) and the only other “tanky” build would be the fighter, whom I think is wanting to go Eldritch Knight anyway.
My original build was going feat-less, rounding out my 2 odd scores, then maxing strength, and just pumping my Constitution after that. Again, I am open to feats; I guess I just don’t understand or appreciate all of their value compared to solid stat boosts. Plus like I said feats are more to remember.
I guess my next question is what would you recommend feat/ASI related for a tankier build?