"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Good points Sception! I'll add a little from the other side. I play currently evil Conquest paladin, that is mc rogue assassin (makes all the posts and memes about pallys not getting along with rogues hilarious). This short and scruffy thing is a leader of his own criminal gang and expects to be obeyed unconditionally by his minions. With the party where he is the new guy he still keeps others a bit further away, but treats them nicely and casual. He is charming bad boy who no parent wishes to see dating their kids, runs mafia and deals drugs. It all works like a clock and he is off to interesting things and bigger circles.
As how to deal with party members, this conman is always first to offer a smoke to frustrated ally, give helping hand ("Talk to it? F*ck, I"ll just punch its teeth in and then you can talk. It's quicker that way.") or just do things before the other, good paladin, gets the credit.
For a roguey take on a conquerer, consider mixing in a few levels of whisper bard. Paladin/bard in general is a decent combo, if not quite as synergistic as pally/sorcerer or pally/warlock, and there's a good thematic fit between conquerors and whisperers.
Not bad idea, though I've just played three different bards, shadow, valor and skald, so I doubt I'll go that path. But I like the theme, will keep it in mind for some other character. We have also a warlock/paladin with us, with very nice pacts, raven queen as a deity and carefree attitude. It seems more efficient than my build, but I'm having way too much fun with my absent-minded conman, devout sword of Shar.
My grave Cleric recently died in Curse of Strahd so I'm bringing in my backup character, a Scourge Aasimar Oath of Conquest Paladin, I envision him as being somewhere between a Black Templar Space marine and the more zealous Stormcast Eternals. He is effectively a crusader sent out to bring order back to regions that have fallen into the hands of dark forces, such as devils, undead, demons, etc. His alignment is Lawful Neutral, mostly because he cares more about the cosmic-level aspects of the good/evil struggle than a lowly village. but if you gave him a moral code and a desire to protect the weak, he'd easily be lawful good. a Viking-esque theme is a good fit for a conquest paladin :)
First definition :an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution| you can use this absolute authority to do anything good or bad, its just that your word is law. Such as Marcus Aurelius.
Overly simplifying, oath of conquest is an end justifies the means kinda guy. It doesn't matter how good you meant to be if you failed. Accomplish the goal, and then use that position/power to make the world right. To fail is to leave the world corrupted/chaotic.
Ummm, it's probably because tyrants in real life often become corrupt themselves. And if not the first tyrant, then the son or wife of the tyrant. Absolute power is a powerful drug.
The question becomes what kinds of limits does that character place on him/herself in order to not become a reflection of the very evil that they claim to be fighting.
To the OP's question: one of the easier way to smooth over the heavy-handed enforcer feel of the Conquest Paladin is to play the character as Fighting the Greater Evil. Yes, this sounds like a Vengeance Paladin oath, but it's also very appropriate background viewpoint for a Conquest Pally to have. If you and your party agree on what that "Greater Evil" is, then you should be able to put aside your occasional differences to work together towards defeating that evil.
Oh agreed, there is about 1 tyrant i can think of, and named, that wasn't entirely horrible. But formally, tyrant doesn't necessitate evil, it just historically is. a little more tongue-in-cheek opener.
I'm currently playing a warforged Paladin of conquest, serving under the temple of Tyr, so in the name of justice. I'm basically judge dread. No room for compassion and redemption, just pain and fear. Totally crushing the hope any wrongdoers have of standing a fighting chance, just let them wet themselves, and relieve them of their heads.
I'm playing an Oath Of Conquest Paladin, my inspiration was actually from MHA/BNHA Bakugo. an aggressive *******, but still dedicated to doing right (Zariel Teifling).
The full back story came up being that he was born to dwarves. He was always treated like something less, not taught stone craft or dwarvish. Treated like he was an idiot. however, when he got angry and beat the crap out of a military cadet, they realized he might have some use. So he is determined to make his family proud, by spreading the will of their god. violence and victory are the only ways he gets positive attention.
Basically I'm saying to ask your paladin what conquest means to him. What does victory mean to him.
I'm actually playing a human conquest plaidian in my current campaign. First game so light on backstory, noble with a heart mostly in the right place and believes all should be treated as equals before the law, eventually has aspirations to become some kind of influential noble or ruler to keep in theme with his oath. Conquest and Tyranny beng two different things after all.
The best part about this, is the DM has given or plans to give each player a unique magic item (Dragonborn Eldritch Knight got gauntlets that let him re-roll a D20 once per day, Human Battlemaster got a ring that gives him infinite arrows, etc.) I got a magic axe called the Devourer that heals me for a small amount of HP when i land an attack.The catch was, sense my DM (who i'm good friends with btw) doesn't like Paladins for some reason, he decided to bind the Axe to a demon, specifically a Succubus, to mess with the "Holy crusader type" character. That was before I told him I was going Oath of Conquest (he thought I was going oath of devotion) so I may have a demonic ally on my side that I can use and not worry about breaking my oath. (We both laughed about it later when he ran the idea of having a demon axe past me, getting it next session so, here's hoping its fun!)
I play as a Goliath Paladin and have this same oath. I thought it worked extremely well. Goliath's been more of a clan group I take the rule of law is one of his clan's and for the people he leads as well as the God he serves.. So in our current campaign where we are in a foreign land and he doesn't feel the compulsion to enforce that lands law so it makes it easier to be a bit dismissive of some things. And someone else pointed out, you don't always have to kill and dominate, you can subjugate. So in some moments instead of straight fighting, I've given some the option of serving me instead. That way I'm not forcing my entire party to fight every time. And as a nice bonus, in our last play session I got a Minotaur to serve me haha.
I've followed this for a while. This might be a bit longer one.
I have a Conquest paladin with a twist. It has been absolutely blast to play. MC Rogue Swashbuckler (3) and DexPaladin (7) current level. He is a smallish, pretty guy half-elf from Luskan, a thief, murderer and usurper of power in the gang he has been for a while. Son of a smuggler, he's used to life of a criminal. A lure and a bait, the smooth talker if you say. When I started play him, rest of the group came to meet a gang leader who had a thing they needed. Instead they met him, and quick learnt that this little beast had taken control and killed off third of the gang and now says his goddess lead them to here and we're partners, want it or not. Others took quite some time to get used to their tiny, cold-blooded paladin of Shar who really lacks on real empathy. Pretty smiles on the outside, rot inside.
This worked nicely to the Oath of Conquest. I played this little beast as a demanding and merciless person. He can read only slowly and is the one go "huh?" most often when mages talk, but is clever bastard solving troubles, also protective "You're my gang now and I'll literally skin alive anyone trying to hurt you. And I make them sit down and hand me the knife themselves" -kind of guy. The group has taught him to trust at least his inner circle. From unpredictable little monster, he's grown into more relaxed and calm thing that our group calls the boss. He did not need to demand it. Others just learnt that he's the one to get everyone out of the tricky situations, always with a plan and he's adamant that Shar won't tolerate any weakness or failure from him. Idiot like all of the paladins.
There's no specific group he sees as the enemy needed to control, as a Paladin of Shar, I concentrate on learning where to play nice and where to just walk too close and tell people that now they're doing what I say. Most of the time he's scary and convincing enough to get his way. It's secrets, pain of loss, merciless truths used as sharp knives. An evil paladin in neutral group works very nicely. It works for he's been friendly and taking care of his group, and making them take care of him - to a point where they felt conflicted when he outright killed a street kid for stealing something worthless from him. They did not dare to confront him for that, what's been my goal (this is something I do not abuse as a player). Not to control with anger and force, but making it very hard to oppose someone you think is your friend. Next we're heading out for more lawful good type of city. It's going to change how I play this bundle of daggers, I'll take a step back, sit down nicely letting the honest ones do the talking, smile like a good lad and start playing the morality game and luring people to be a little selfish, just to take bit joy on the living. To loosen up. To trust. Have that smoke with him and walk away from the pretty shimmering paths of that f*cking moonb*tch. His quote has been "Shar doesn't want me to be happy. She wants me to be strong."
I love this character. And before I started, I thought paladin's were a boring class. So my five cents would be: decide on how does your paladin live when there's no enemy to hit, make an effort to make other PCs friends who like having you on their side (I play a total sociopath bastard and they actually protect him) and look everything through the lenses of 'how I can twist this just a little bit so it all looks like divine plan my deity has set in motion' and play your part. Remember consequences. Do the bad thing but don't in front of everyone unless wanting to make a point. Make others think you're going a bit too far, but never cross the line. You're the one making necessary hard choices so their conscience can stay clean. I think that's the Conquest, besides obvious making enemies shite their pants..
Hey. The dragonborn viking idea sounds rad as heck dude, go for it. Also, while strength and charisma are both definitely important for paladins, this paladin definitely wants to get its charisma as high as possible so that the saving throw enemies have to make against its channel divinity and spells is high. This is because the aura this paladin gets at level seven only works on people frightened of you. Thankfully, you have your channel divinity, wrathful smite, and the Fear spell to help you get your foes frightened. Higher charisma means it’s harder to resist those spells, which in turn means you’re more likely to get use out of your aura of conquest and keep those enemies focused on you instead of your other party members.
You know, I thought about playing a character that is a lot like a biker. It occurs to me that if you were a criminal background Conquest Paladin, subjugating other criminals could build an empire of sorts. I'm still trying to sort out how to justify working with a party. I had also considered Batttlesmith Artificer but the Steel Defender is not strong enough to be a mount.
Steel defender is a bad mount due to always acting after the artificer. You almost always want your mount to go before you, not after you, at least in games where the DM doesn't ignore bad RAI and implement simultaneous turns for rider & mount.
Mob Boss / Enforcer style conqueror works really well - it's a core aspect of Orzhov Conquerors in Ravnica. Making it work as a party, well there you've got a couple ways to go. Maybe some rat sold out your previous organization leading to all but you being arrested, and now you have to start over with a new group of rubes trusted companions. Or maybe in addition to more illicit fencing your criminal organization also buys and sells ancient treasures recovered by freelance adventuring parties, and part of their business is leasing out muscle - ie guys like you - to adventuring parties to help them out on delves while also ensuring they don't take anything they find to the competition. Or maybe the region's evil overlord has been cracking down on your organization, so the boss has asked you to meet up with and offer support to that band of local heroes that's also been causing you trouble, in the hopes that you can redirect their attention to the greater evil. Maybe together you succeed in overthrowing the tyrant, resulting in a less rigidly controlled society that would be better for the poor downtrodden civilians and questionably legitimate independent businesses alike. At the very least, you distract the minor annoyance so the organization can focus on the more significant problem.
I have a third way to this, but it's possibly a bit tricky on a long run. I've played my Paladin introduced up there like a Mob Boss / Enforcer but I got to keep the gang.
The gang is group of loosely described NPCs, and one with proper stats. They stay in the city do their usual shady business while the boss is with the party out. Rest of the party doesn't want to get involved too much so often its some background group fluff what they do like our ship and the crew. Sometimes the little beast takes offscreen side quests with his gang, the party doesn't want to involve if they can avoid it. Paladin keeps contact to his gang and the party has seen some of them few times, but in general these two groups work separately. It requires some "happens behind the spotlight" planning from the GM but ours is good with that. Now and then when we come back there is someone in the jail or another trouble to deal with and when rest of the party takes a nice little breather Paladin goes back to scare the sh#t out of someone who's been messing with people belonging to him.
This leads to nice scenes, when Paladin comes back to the party, likely hungover and tired, explaining about some wildly illegal gig they've done, it probably involves arson, theft, murder or fraud. Or all of those. If anything, it makes the party's paladin/rogue delightfully unpredictable with lots of shady friends. I'm kind of waiting when the whole roster of harbor thieves is in the gallows and I get to go "We have to get them out - no one but me has right to kill them."
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When i read this i instantly thought vegeta ... but thats just me... proud strong spreading his might.
Vegeeeeeta.
I'm Haunting you.
-Nappa (DBZ abridged)
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Good points Sception! I'll add a little from the other side. I play currently evil Conquest paladin, that is mc rogue assassin (makes all the posts and memes about pallys not getting along with rogues hilarious). This short and scruffy thing is a leader of his own criminal gang and expects to be obeyed unconditionally by his minions. With the party where he is the new guy he still keeps others a bit further away, but treats them nicely and casual. He is charming bad boy who no parent wishes to see dating their kids, runs mafia and deals drugs. It all works like a clock and he is off to interesting things and bigger circles.
As how to deal with party members, this conman is always first to offer a smoke to frustrated ally, give helping hand ("Talk to it? F*ck, I"ll just punch its teeth in and then you can talk. It's quicker that way.") or just do things before the other, good paladin, gets the credit.
For a roguey take on a conquerer, consider mixing in a few levels of whisper bard. Paladin/bard in general is a decent combo, if not quite as synergistic as pally/sorcerer or pally/warlock, and there's a good thematic fit between conquerors and whisperers.
Not bad idea, though I've just played three different bards, shadow, valor and skald, so I doubt I'll go that path. But I like the theme, will keep it in mind for some other character. We have also a warlock/paladin with us, with very nice pacts, raven queen as a deity and carefree attitude. It seems more efficient than my build, but I'm having way too much fun with my absent-minded conman, devout sword of Shar.
My grave Cleric recently died in Curse of Strahd so I'm bringing in my backup character, a Scourge Aasimar Oath of Conquest Paladin, I envision him as being somewhere between a Black Templar Space marine and the more zealous Stormcast Eternals. He is effectively a crusader sent out to bring order back to regions that have fallen into the hands of dark forces, such as devils, undead, demons, etc. His alignment is Lawful Neutral, mostly because he cares more about the cosmic-level aspects of the good/evil struggle than a lowly village. but if you gave him a moral code and a desire to protect the weak, he'd easily be lawful good. a Viking-esque theme is a good fit for a conquest paladin :)
Ummm, it's probably because tyrants in real life often become corrupt themselves. And if not the first tyrant, then the son or wife of the tyrant. Absolute power is a powerful drug.
The question becomes what kinds of limits does that character place on him/herself in order to not become a reflection of the very evil that they claim to be fighting.
To the OP's question: one of the easier way to smooth over the heavy-handed enforcer feel of the Conquest Paladin is to play the character as Fighting the Greater Evil. Yes, this sounds like a Vengeance Paladin oath, but it's also very appropriate background viewpoint for a Conquest Pally to have. If you and your party agree on what that "Greater Evil" is, then you should be able to put aside your occasional differences to work together towards defeating that evil.
Oh agreed, there is about 1 tyrant i can think of, and named, that wasn't entirely horrible. But formally, tyrant doesn't necessitate evil, it just historically is. a little more tongue-in-cheek opener.
I'm currently playing a warforged Paladin of conquest, serving under the temple of Tyr, so in the name of justice. I'm basically judge dread. No room for compassion and redemption, just pain and fear. Totally crushing the hope any wrongdoers have of standing a fighting chance, just let them wet themselves, and relieve them of their heads.
I'm playing an Oath Of Conquest Paladin, my inspiration was actually from MHA/BNHA Bakugo. an aggressive *******, but still dedicated to doing right (Zariel Teifling).
The full back story came up being that he was born to dwarves. He was always treated like something less, not taught stone craft or dwarvish. Treated like he was an idiot. however, when he got angry and beat the crap out of a military cadet, they realized he might have some use. So he is determined to make his family proud, by spreading the will of their god. violence and victory are the only ways he gets positive attention.
Basically I'm saying to ask your paladin what conquest means to him. What does victory mean to him.
I'm actually playing a human conquest plaidian in my current campaign. First game so light on backstory, noble with a heart mostly in the right place and believes all should be treated as equals before the law, eventually has aspirations to become some kind of influential noble or ruler to keep in theme with his oath. Conquest and Tyranny beng two different things after all.
The best part about this, is the DM has given or plans to give each player a unique magic item (Dragonborn Eldritch Knight got gauntlets that let him re-roll a D20 once per day, Human Battlemaster got a ring that gives him infinite arrows, etc.) I got a magic axe called the Devourer that heals me for a small amount of HP when i land an attack.The catch was, sense my DM (who i'm good friends with btw) doesn't like Paladins for some reason, he decided to bind the Axe to a demon, specifically a Succubus, to mess with the "Holy crusader type" character. That was before I told him I was going Oath of Conquest (he thought I was going oath of devotion) so I may have a demonic ally on my side that I can use and not worry about breaking my oath. (We both laughed about it later when he ran the idea of having a demon axe past me, getting it next session so, here's hoping its fun!)
I play as a Goliath Paladin and have this same oath. I thought it worked extremely well. Goliath's been more of a clan group I take the rule of law is one of his clan's and for the people he leads as well as the God he serves.. So in our current campaign where we are in a foreign land and he doesn't feel the compulsion to enforce that lands law so it makes it easier to be a bit dismissive of some things. And someone else pointed out, you don't always have to kill and dominate, you can subjugate. So in some moments instead of straight fighting, I've given some the option of serving me instead. That way I'm not forcing my entire party to fight every time. And as a nice bonus, in our last play session I got a Minotaur to serve me haha.
I've followed this for a while. This might be a bit longer one.
I have a Conquest paladin with a twist. It has been absolutely blast to play. MC Rogue Swashbuckler (3) and DexPaladin (7) current level.
He is a smallish, pretty guy half-elf from Luskan, a thief, murderer and usurper of power in the gang he has been for a while. Son of a smuggler, he's used to life of a criminal. A lure and a bait, the smooth talker if you say. When I started play him, rest of the group came to meet a gang leader who had a thing they needed. Instead they met him, and quick learnt that this little beast had taken control and killed off third of the gang and now says his goddess lead them to here and we're partners, want it or not. Others took quite some time to get used to their tiny, cold-blooded paladin of Shar who really lacks on real empathy. Pretty smiles on the outside, rot inside.
This worked nicely to the Oath of Conquest. I played this little beast as a demanding and merciless person. He can read only slowly and is the one go "huh?" most often when mages talk, but is clever bastard solving troubles, also protective "You're my gang now and I'll literally skin alive anyone trying to hurt you. And I make them sit down and hand me the knife themselves" -kind of guy. The group has taught him to trust at least his inner circle. From unpredictable little monster, he's grown into more relaxed and calm thing that our group calls the boss. He did not need to demand it. Others just learnt that he's the one to get everyone out of the tricky situations, always with a plan and he's adamant that Shar won't tolerate any weakness or failure from him. Idiot like all of the paladins.
There's no specific group he sees as the enemy needed to control, as a Paladin of Shar, I concentrate on learning where to play nice and where to just walk too close and tell people that now they're doing what I say. Most of the time he's scary and convincing enough to get his way. It's secrets, pain of loss, merciless truths used as sharp knives. An evil paladin in neutral group works very nicely. It works for he's been friendly and taking care of his group, and making them take care of him - to a point where they felt conflicted when he outright killed a street kid for stealing something worthless from him. They did not dare to confront him for that, what's been my goal (this is something I do not abuse as a player). Not to control with anger and force, but making it very hard to oppose someone you think is your friend. Next we're heading out for more lawful good type of city. It's going to change how I play this bundle of daggers, I'll take a step back, sit down nicely letting the honest ones do the talking, smile like a good lad and start playing the morality game and luring people to be a little selfish, just to take bit joy on the living. To loosen up. To trust. Have that smoke with him and walk away from the pretty shimmering paths of that f*cking moonb*tch. His quote has been "Shar doesn't want me to be happy. She wants me to be strong."
I love this character. And before I started, I thought paladin's were a boring class. So my five cents would be: decide on how does your paladin live when there's no enemy to hit, make an effort to make other PCs friends who like having you on their side (I play a total sociopath bastard and they actually protect him) and look everything through the lenses of 'how I can twist this just a little bit so it all looks like divine plan my deity has set in motion' and play your part. Remember consequences. Do the bad thing but don't in front of everyone unless wanting to make a point. Make others think you're going a bit too far, but never cross the line. You're the one making necessary hard choices so their conscience can stay clean. I think that's the Conquest, besides obvious making enemies shite their pants..
Hey. The dragonborn viking idea sounds rad as heck dude, go for it. Also, while strength and charisma are both definitely important for paladins, this paladin definitely wants to get its charisma as high as possible so that the saving throw enemies have to make against its channel divinity and spells is high. This is because the aura this paladin gets at level seven only works on people frightened of you. Thankfully, you have your channel divinity, wrathful smite, and the Fear spell to help you get your foes frightened. Higher charisma means it’s harder to resist those spells, which in turn means you’re more likely to get use out of your aura of conquest and keep those enemies focused on you instead of your other party members.
You know, I thought about playing a character that is a lot like a biker. It occurs to me that if you were a criminal background Conquest Paladin, subjugating other criminals could build an empire of sorts. I'm still trying to sort out how to justify working with a party. I had also considered Batttlesmith Artificer but the Steel Defender is not strong enough to be a mount.
Steel defender is a bad mount due to always acting after the artificer. You almost always want your mount to go before you, not after you, at least in games where the DM doesn't ignore bad RAI and implement simultaneous turns for rider & mount.
Mob Boss / Enforcer style conqueror works really well - it's a core aspect of Orzhov Conquerors in Ravnica. Making it work as a party, well there you've got a couple ways to go. Maybe some rat sold out your previous organization leading to all but you being arrested, and now you have to start over with a new group of
rubestrusted companions. Or maybe in addition to more illicit fencing your criminal organization also buys and sells ancient treasures recovered by freelance adventuring parties, and part of their business is leasing out muscle - ie guys like you - to adventuring parties to help them out on delves while also ensuring they don't take anything they find to the competition. Or maybe the region's evil overlord has been cracking down on your organization, so the boss has asked you to meet up with and offer support to that band of local heroes that's also been causing you trouble, in the hopes that you can redirect their attention to the greater evil. Maybe together you succeed in overthrowing the tyrant, resulting in a less rigidly controlled society that would be better for the poor downtrodden civilians and questionably legitimate independent businesses alike. At the very least, you distract the minor annoyance so the organization can focus on the more significant problem.I have a third way to this, but it's possibly a bit tricky on a long run. I've played my Paladin introduced up there like a Mob Boss / Enforcer but I got to keep the gang.
The gang is group of loosely described NPCs, and one with proper stats. They stay in the city do their usual shady business while the boss is with the party out. Rest of the party doesn't want to get involved too much so often its some background group fluff what they do like our ship and the crew. Sometimes the little beast takes offscreen side quests with his gang, the party doesn't want to involve if they can avoid it. Paladin keeps contact to his gang and the party has seen some of them few times, but in general these two groups work separately. It requires some "happens behind the spotlight" planning from the GM but ours is good with that. Now and then when we come back there is someone in the jail or another trouble to deal with and when rest of the party takes a nice little breather Paladin goes back to scare the sh#t out of someone who's been messing with people belonging to him.
This leads to nice scenes, when Paladin comes back to the party, likely hungover and tired, explaining about some wildly illegal gig they've done, it probably involves arson, theft, murder or fraud. Or all of those. If anything, it makes the party's paladin/rogue delightfully unpredictable with lots of shady friends. I'm kind of waiting when the whole roster of harbor thieves is in the gallows and I get to go "We have to get them out - no one but me has right to kill them."