While I agree with you that stacking of Hex and HM needs to be proscribed, there are many many other ways to achieve that or at least severely limit its likelihood. For example, the Hunter's Mark spell could state that 'if cast with a Ranger spell slot of 2nd level or higher, you can cast the spell so that Concentration is not required. If cast this way the duration becomes 1 minute.' This amendment could be added to the HM spell itself, or it could be part of an existing Ranger class feature.
This type of uncomplicated, simple to apply 'fix' is what I call 'cake and eat it'. It makes the ranger crowd happy and avoids or severely discourages 'dips' into Ranger simply to get HM.
thinking about it further, I am confident a feat could be designed that would allow certain spells to be cast this way, reducing duration whilst removing concentration requirements. This feat could have a level requirement.
I'm sure people who get paid to do this sort of thing could come up with even more elegant solutions that mine!
The Ranger is thematically weak but is mechanically good at dealing damage in tier 1 and early tier 2 but has little in tier 3. The Ranger spell list at later levels is lackluster and has no good features after the subclass features at Level 7, but Tireless is a neat ability for flavor.
I've never played a ranger before but I made a level 5 ranger for a 1-shot I'm playing in that I'm pretty excited about. I'm picturing him as a surly survivalist-type. Took Druidic warrior as the fighting style for a little druid flavor. Guide background for the ability score increase and more druid spells and the Fey-touched background. Hunter subclass for the Hunter's Lore and Hunter's Prey features. Per long rest that gives him 3 castings of Hunter's Mark, 1 misty step, 1 detect magic and 1 cure wounds (the last 2 selected mostly because I thought they might be useful with the theme of the specific campaign) So that's 6 spells without using any spell slots. In melee combat he'll get 3 attacks (2 regular attacks plus 2-weapon fighting B.A.) plus 1d6 for H.M. and once per turn potentially an extra 1d8 for Colossus slayer (so using hand axes as a primary melee weapons the potential each turn to deal 6d6 + 1d8 damage and have advantage on the next attack with vex) Ranged attacks he can use H.M. with the short bow and potentially add Hail of Thorns and again have advantage on the next attack thanks to vex. I think he came out a good mix of combat prowess, healing ability and utility.
"...at worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
The 2024 ranger doesn’t have all the little ribbon features that showed the theme of ranger. However, it has the capacity to match any other nature/survivalist themed class or subclass with its 3 expertises. It’s true it’s summon and conjure spells got nerfed so you only get 1 creature now instead of the numbers you got with 2014, but the creature you get is generally more powerful so it’s a bit of a trade off there. No the ranger doesn’t get many big obvious damaging spells like fireball but they do get a few- mostly archery focused. Traditionally you transitioned from mostly martial focused to mostly spell focused in late tier 2/early tier 3 and that hasn’t really changed. However if your expecting the tier 3/4 ranger to be a blaster it’s not, it’s much more about controlling the battlefield and funneling foes into kill zones ( or forcing them to dead ends while the party escapes). Properly played they remain strong right through tier 4 - but properly isn’t just however you want to play them.
Now that I was able to read the whole book, watched some videos about ranger, and doing a bit more math myself. I think Ranger is amazing level 1~10 Character for any party composition! He does suffer after that, and because of that in my games the change I will do is to change the level 13 feature to remove Concentration on Hunter's Mark instead of not breaking it on damage. So Ranger can Summon/buffs/other damaging concentration spell + HM after level 13.
That way you have a reason to go all the way to Ranger and even the capstone/level 17 feature does not fell that bad anymore. And because it is a level 13 feature there is no quick dip to grab it.
I agree, the Ranger has a great tier 1 and tier 2. Like other martials it does fall apart at tier 3. I still don't know what to do with it, whether to multiclass at 6 or what... But most games don't last much past 11 in my experience.
A 20th level Ranger can pass the 630 test however.
The 630 test is something I made up to gauge the survivablity of most characters.
I create a generic CR30 Gargantuan Monster with 30 STR and 30 CON and 19 AC. The hit points are D20 so the average damage is 10.5. I round up to 11 plus 10 for CON and multiply by 30. Hence 630 hit points. The test is if a character can inflict at least 32 points of average damage for 20 turns which should kill the monster. 32*20 is actually 640 but it is better to do more damage than less and DnD 2024 has weird rounding rules. 630/20 is 31.5 but you can not use that number you have to use 31 which does not do enough damage to kill a beast with 630 hit points.
20th Level Ranger with 20 STR and dual wielding scimitars. Taking the Combat Prowess Epic Feat. and using NICK.
Hunters mark at high levels grants advantage on attacks and does 1d10 extra damage per attack.
13 * 3 swings = 39 I preserve the bonus action for other things but you could use it to make a fourth swing. I use it for Beast Master commands to my Beast. :-)
630 / 39 = 16.153 ~ 17 ( I round up here on purpose) 17<= 20 so it passes the test.
I tested long bows and short bows and dual hand held crossbows. The only Ranger Subclass to fail is the Gloom Stalker. It ends up around 22 <= 20 which is false so it fails but gets close. If you get a +1 weapon you might squeeze in.
Weirdly enough the only other class that fails this test is the Wizard class. Their damage is actually bad over the long term. Even Evockers fail. The test works out to be 30 or 35 <= 20 which is not even close to succeeding.
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While I agree with you that stacking of Hex and HM needs to be proscribed, there are many many other ways to achieve that or at least severely limit its likelihood. For example, the Hunter's Mark spell could state that 'if cast with a Ranger spell slot of 2nd level or higher, you can cast the spell so that Concentration is not required. If cast this way the duration becomes 1 minute.' This amendment could be added to the HM spell itself, or it could be part of an existing Ranger class feature.
This type of uncomplicated, simple to apply 'fix' is what I call 'cake and eat it'. It makes the ranger crowd happy and avoids or severely discourages 'dips' into Ranger simply to get HM.
thinking about it further, I am confident a feat could be designed that would allow certain spells to be cast this way, reducing duration whilst removing concentration requirements. This feat could have a level requirement.
I'm sure people who get paid to do this sort of thing could come up with even more elegant solutions that mine!
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Don't be Lawful Evil
The Ranger is thematically weak but is mechanically good at dealing damage in tier 1 and early tier 2 but has little in tier 3. The Ranger spell list at later levels is lackluster and has no good features after the subclass features at Level 7, but Tireless is a neat ability for flavor.
I've never played a ranger before but I made a level 5 ranger for a 1-shot I'm playing in that I'm pretty excited about. I'm picturing him as a surly survivalist-type. Took Druidic warrior as the fighting style for a little druid flavor. Guide background for the ability score increase and more druid spells and the Fey-touched background. Hunter subclass for the Hunter's Lore and Hunter's Prey features. Per long rest that gives him 3 castings of Hunter's Mark, 1 misty step, 1 detect magic and 1 cure wounds (the last 2 selected mostly because I thought they might be useful with the theme of the specific campaign) So that's 6 spells without using any spell slots. In melee combat he'll get 3 attacks (2 regular attacks plus 2-weapon fighting B.A.) plus 1d6 for H.M. and once per turn potentially an extra 1d8 for Colossus slayer (so using hand axes as a primary melee weapons the potential each turn to deal 6d6 + 1d8 damage and have advantage on the next attack with vex) Ranged attacks he can use H.M. with the short bow and potentially add Hail of Thorns and again have advantage on the next attack thanks to vex. I think he came out a good mix of combat prowess, healing ability and utility.
"...at worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
The 2024 ranger doesn’t have all the little ribbon features that showed the theme of ranger. However, it has the capacity to match any other nature/survivalist themed class or subclass with its 3 expertises. It’s true it’s summon and conjure spells got nerfed so you only get 1 creature now instead of the numbers you got with 2014, but the creature you get is generally more powerful so it’s a bit of a trade off there. No the ranger doesn’t get many big obvious damaging spells like fireball but they do get a few- mostly archery focused. Traditionally you transitioned from mostly martial focused to mostly spell focused in late tier 2/early tier 3 and that hasn’t really changed. However if your expecting the tier 3/4 ranger to be a blaster it’s not, it’s much more about controlling the battlefield and funneling foes into kill zones ( or forcing them to dead ends while the party escapes). Properly played they remain strong right through tier 4 - but properly isn’t just however you want to play them.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Now that I was able to read the whole book, watched some videos about ranger, and doing a bit more math myself. I think Ranger is amazing level 1~10 Character for any party composition! He does suffer after that, and because of that in my games the change I will do is to change the level 13 feature to remove Concentration on Hunter's Mark instead of not breaking it on damage. So Ranger can Summon/buffs/other damaging concentration spell + HM after level 13.
That way you have a reason to go all the way to Ranger and even the capstone/level 17 feature does not fell that bad anymore. And because it is a level 13 feature there is no quick dip to grab it.
I agree, the Ranger has a great tier 1 and tier 2. Like other martials it does fall apart at tier 3. I still don't know what to do with it, whether to multiclass at 6 or what... But most games don't last much past 11 in my experience.
A 20th level Ranger can pass the 630 test however.
The 630 test is something I made up to gauge the survivablity of most characters.
I create a generic CR30 Gargantuan Monster with 30 STR and 30 CON and 19 AC.
The hit points are D20 so the average damage is 10.5. I round up to 11 plus 10 for CON and multiply by 30. Hence 630 hit points. The test is if a character can inflict at least 32 points of average damage for 20 turns which should kill the monster. 32*20 is actually 640 but it is better to do more damage than less and DnD 2024 has weird rounding rules. 630/20 is 31.5 but you can not use that number you have to use 31 which does not do enough damage to kill a beast with 630 hit points.
20th Level Ranger with 20 STR and dual wielding scimitars. Taking the Combat Prowess Epic Feat. and using NICK.
Hunters mark at high levels grants advantage on attacks and does 1d10 extra damage per attack.
.0975*(2*3.5 + 5 + 2*5.5) + .78*(3.5 + 5 +5.5) = 13.1625 ~ 13
13 * 3 swings = 39 I preserve the bonus action for other things but you could use it to make a fourth swing. I use it for Beast Master commands to my Beast. :-)
630 / 39 = 16.153 ~ 17 ( I round up here on purpose) 17<= 20 so it passes the test.
I tested long bows and short bows and dual hand held crossbows. The only Ranger Subclass to fail is the Gloom Stalker. It ends up around 22 <= 20 which is false so it fails but gets close. If you get a +1 weapon you might squeeze in.
Weirdly enough the only other class that fails this test is the Wizard class. Their damage is actually bad over the long term. Even Evockers fail. The test works out to be 30 or 35 <= 20 which is not even close to succeeding.