Trying to run a swashbuckler swordsman inspired by Zorro/three musketeers. Intent was to have an average-joe human swordsman with no magic in the middle of a bunch of magic stuff. Our campaign is going to lvl 15. Currently at level 8. I dipped three levels into fighter (battlemaster) to get the maneuvers which I am now regretting because I am missing out on sneak attack and later level rogue features but it's locked in. So I am at 5 swash/3 battlemaster.
So, here is the problem I am currently facing. For the next few level ups I see a few options: (1) continue into fighter to get the extra attack, (2) try to make up for the loss in sneak attack by grabbing booming blade and trying to flavor it as non-magical somehow, or (3) make up the damage elsewhere with something like the poisoner feat.
Problem with option 1 is that I miss out on even more sneak attack and rogue features. Problem with 2 is that it runs against the intent of making a non-magical character. Problem with 3 is that poisoner seems to not be useful in a lot of scenarios due to poison immunity and it's kinda hard to picture Zorro using poison.
(Dm won't let me do guns and won't let me do sword and hand crossbow, otherwise that would be an option)
Grab 2 simple bladed weapons. Regular 2 weapon fighting should allow 2 chances at the sneak attack, then just continue with rogue for sneak attack.
Look into what your DM will allow for feats. If feats are no bueno, then you're worse off, but it's worth asking because maybe the hand crossbow is off limits because you don't have thecrossbow expert feat, Or maybe if you talk to them they might let you take dual wield and then you can up to two rapiers.
Rogues are all about staying in their lane to get the maximum Sneak Attack damage, and generally on their weapons they get such large bonuses to hit that, you don't need a lot of chances to hit, you need to manipulate getting advantage.
I already started out with the two weapon fighting feat and I have been swapping in and out between dual rapiers and rapier and whip. I think at this point I've pretty much gathered that taking rogue to the finish is the best option. But the thing I can't figure out is if I am severely nerfing myself by not taking booming blade. And if I am severely nerfing myself by not taking booming blade, is there any way for me to make up the damage elsewhere with non-magical feats.
Honestly, at this point I would just push toward 5th level in fighter for the Extra attack to both increase potential damage output but also to give more chances to land an attack and thus get that sneak attack off. If you were going for a booming blade setup, you would have wanted to have picked that up somehow earlier on. At this point, move away from it and focus on what you've got going for you
Honestly, at this point I would just push toward 5th level in fighter for the Extra attack to both increase potential damage output but also to give more chances to land an attack and thus get that sneak attack off. If you were going for a booming blade setup, you would have wanted to have picked that up somehow earlier on. At this point, move away from it and focus on what you've got going for you
That is sort of how I envisioned the character to begin with. If I got booming blade it more or less nullifies the two weapon fighting feat I took early on. So I don't have too big an issue of steering away from booming blade. My biggest issue with taking extra attack I suppose is missing out on yet another 1d6 sneak attack by going 5 in fighter (I already lost 2d6 from the 3 level dip) on top of not being able to get to higher level rogue features such as swashbuckler panache until level 14 when the campaign is almost over and missing out entirely on features like reliable tallent. Either way I guess there's going to be some sort of sacrifice (price of multi-classing).
You could check out piercer as a feat. It won’t fully make up for the sneak attack die, but it will give you a little boost with that rapier. It also gives a +1 to dex if you need that. At this point, I’d think the choice is more between 1 more level of fighter for the feat or just back to rogue. If you do go back to rouge right now, it will be a while before that asi.
Have you talked to your DM? Explain you aren’t enjoying the character and ask if you can respec.
Have you talked to your DM? Explain you aren’t enjoying the character and ask if you can respec.
This👆would be my first choice. If the DM’ll let you respec then drop the three fighter levels for rogue levels and take a feat (or two) if you really want a couple of maneuvers.
Barring that just go full on rogue the rest of the way. The faster you can start making up that SA damage the better. With dual-wielding you’re already giving yourself the second chance to hit per turn, so the Extra Attack won’t really help you all that much. (Kudos for going rapier & whip, its my favorite combo too.) And Swashbuckler is a strong subclass, so you should be good on that front. The real downside is how long you’ll have to wait for your next ASI/Feat, but it is what it is.
I would crank Fighter up to level 7 for Extra Attack , Ability Score Improvement, Know Your Enemy features and increase in Maneuvers and Superiority Dice.
And crank Rogue up to level 8 for Expertise , Evasion, Ability Score Improvement features and increase in Sneak Attack damage.
You could check out piercer as a feat. It won’t fully make up for the sneak attack die, but it will give you a little boost with that rapier. It also gives a +1 to dex if you need that. At this point, I’d think the choice is more between 1 more level of fighter for the feat or just back to rogue. If you do go back to rouge right now, it will be a while before that asi.
Have you talked to your DM? Explain you aren’t enjoying the character and ask if you can respec.
Yeah, talked to DM and he won't let me respec. He's in the camp of if I've used features before in previous combat scenarios then I'm more or less stuck with them because it has affected the story which I think is fair.
Checked out the piercer feat but honestly didn't seem that worth it to me and I don't need the +1 dex as I'm already at 18 dex and plan on taking an ASI with 2 dex at some point.
Good point about the fourth level fighter. If I take one more fighter I don't miss out on maxing my sneak attack and also I make use of the optional fourth level fighter perks of changing my fighting style and swapping out the battlemaster maneuvers for new ones. Will probably do that for level 9. So I guess the remaining question is whether I go Swash 11/BM 4 or Swash 10/ BM 5. If I do Swash 10/BM 5, then I am trading reliable talent and 1d6 of sneak attack for the extra attack. I like the idea of extra attack because with action surge I can attack five times on a turn (and if I really want to go out, use a maneuver with each attack). Granted that option would burn through my extra features and would require a short rest to get it all back, but I like the idea of an all out attack like that. So at this point, seems like I'm leaning Swash 10/BM 5
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Trying to run a swashbuckler swordsman inspired by Zorro/three musketeers. Intent was to have an average-joe human swordsman with no magic in the middle of a bunch of magic stuff. Our campaign is going to lvl 15. Currently at level 8. I dipped three levels into fighter (battlemaster) to get the maneuvers which I am now regretting because I am missing out on sneak attack and later level rogue features but it's locked in. So I am at 5 swash/3 battlemaster.
So, here is the problem I am currently facing. For the next few level ups I see a few options: (1) continue into fighter to get the extra attack, (2) try to make up for the loss in sneak attack by grabbing booming blade and trying to flavor it as non-magical somehow, or (3) make up the damage elsewhere with something like the poisoner feat.
Problem with option 1 is that I miss out on even more sneak attack and rogue features. Problem with 2 is that it runs against the intent of making a non-magical character. Problem with 3 is that poisoner seems to not be useful in a lot of scenarios due to poison immunity and it's kinda hard to picture Zorro using poison.
(Dm won't let me do guns and won't let me do sword and hand crossbow, otherwise that would be an option)
Any advice?
Grab 2 simple bladed weapons. Regular 2 weapon fighting should allow 2 chances at the sneak attack, then just continue with rogue for sneak attack.
Look into what your DM will allow for feats. If feats are no bueno, then you're worse off, but it's worth asking because maybe the hand crossbow is off limits because you don't have thecrossbow expert feat, Or maybe if you talk to them they might let you take dual wield and then you can up to two rapiers.
Rogues are all about staying in their lane to get the maximum Sneak Attack damage, and generally on their weapons they get such large bonuses to hit that, you don't need a lot of chances to hit, you need to manipulate getting advantage.
I already started out with the two weapon fighting feat and I have been swapping in and out between dual rapiers and rapier and whip. I think at this point I've pretty much gathered that taking rogue to the finish is the best option. But the thing I can't figure out is if I am severely nerfing myself by not taking booming blade. And if I am severely nerfing myself by not taking booming blade, is there any way for me to make up the damage elsewhere with non-magical feats.
Honestly, at this point I would just push toward 5th level in fighter for the Extra attack to both increase potential damage output but also to give more chances to land an attack and thus get that sneak attack off. If you were going for a booming blade setup, you would have wanted to have picked that up somehow earlier on. At this point, move away from it and focus on what you've got going for you
That is sort of how I envisioned the character to begin with. If I got booming blade it more or less nullifies the two weapon fighting feat I took early on. So I don't have too big an issue of steering away from booming blade. My biggest issue with taking extra attack I suppose is missing out on yet another 1d6 sneak attack by going 5 in fighter (I already lost 2d6 from the 3 level dip) on top of not being able to get to higher level rogue features such as swashbuckler panache until level 14 when the campaign is almost over and missing out entirely on features like reliable tallent. Either way I guess there's going to be some sort of sacrifice (price of multi-classing).
You could check out piercer as a feat. It won’t fully make up for the sneak attack die, but it will give you a little boost with that rapier. It also gives a +1 to dex if you need that.
At this point, I’d think the choice is more between 1 more level of fighter for the feat or just back to rogue. If you do go back to rouge right now, it will be a while before that asi.
Have you talked to your DM? Explain you aren’t enjoying the character and ask if you can respec.
This👆would be my first choice. If the DM’ll let you respec then drop the three fighter levels for rogue levels and take a feat (or two) if you really want a couple of maneuvers.
Barring that just go full on rogue the rest of the way. The faster you can start making up that SA damage the better. With dual-wielding you’re already giving yourself the second chance to hit per turn, so the Extra Attack won’t really help you all that much. (Kudos for going rapier & whip, its my favorite combo too.) And Swashbuckler is a strong subclass, so you should be good on that front. The real downside is how long you’ll have to wait for your next ASI/Feat, but it is what it is.
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I would crank Fighter up to level 7 for Extra Attack , Ability Score Improvement, Know Your Enemy features and increase in Maneuvers and Superiority Dice.
And crank Rogue up to level 8 for Expertise , Evasion, Ability Score Improvement features and increase in Sneak Attack damage.
Yeah, talked to DM and he won't let me respec. He's in the camp of if I've used features before in previous combat scenarios then I'm more or less stuck with them because it has affected the story which I think is fair.
Checked out the piercer feat but honestly didn't seem that worth it to me and I don't need the +1 dex as I'm already at 18 dex and plan on taking an ASI with 2 dex at some point.
Good point about the fourth level fighter. If I take one more fighter I don't miss out on maxing my sneak attack and also I make use of the optional fourth level fighter perks of changing my fighting style and swapping out the battlemaster maneuvers for new ones. Will probably do that for level 9. So I guess the remaining question is whether I go Swash 11/BM 4 or Swash 10/ BM 5. If I do Swash 10/BM 5, then I am trading reliable talent and 1d6 of sneak attack for the extra attack. I like the idea of extra attack because with action surge I can attack five times on a turn (and if I really want to go out, use a maneuver with each attack). Granted that option would burn through my extra features and would require a short rest to get it all back, but I like the idea of an all out attack like that. So at this point, seems like I'm leaning Swash 10/BM 5