Iv been playing a campaign with my pals for a year now (25 sessions) and out DM has kept us fairly low level (level 4 currently) for all players and we haven’t really come it to much magic loot (other than our paladin that has has 2 insanely powerful weapons). I’m essentially just using starting equipment because nothing of use has been offered to me.
Im playing the Rogue (Drow Swashbuckler) in the party but I’m feeling severely out classed at the moment with magic users being able to do just about everything I can but better and without having to do skill checks.
the way we are playing we very rarely (if ever) have to have two combat encounters without a rest so spell slots are pretty much irrelevant.
Here are some of my issues and I feel like there is only got to get more disparity between me and the other players as we level up. Note that our Druid has been allowed to wild shape in to a pigeon and a manatee much earlier than he should be able to.
-Class skills, stuff like escaping which I should be great at, the Druid and wizard can just do without even having to roll for it, wild shape and misty step and they are free of any binding and can escape from any room. Yes these spells use spell slots but that becomes irrelevant because they just rest and get them back after every encounter.
-Combat, spell casters are already strong and going to get exponentially stronger here with very powerful AOF spells. Our Paladin is super strong and can use all weapons and has very powerful magic weapons already. Our Ranger, pretty much guaranteed hit with strong bow attack plus has a wolf that is as powerful as I am currently (lol). My sneak attacks have been very circumstantial even though I play them as well as I can and only doing as much damage as offensive ranged cantrips of the spellcasters. Our Druid said that he is playing a healer but is dishing out 10 times the damage I could without breaking a sweat with stuff like spike growth (he’s an experienced player and is power gaming despite claiming to be the healer).
-Utility, ok I can hide! But it’s pointless because I’m not going off on my own, I’m with the party so as soon as we are seen we are all seen, there are so few instances where me being able to hide on my own is really a benefit. Again, wild shape can just do this better, the Druid can literally just turn in to a bird and fly away in the same situation. I have decent charisma for persuasion but again spell casters have actually charm person spells that don’t even need to roll so why risk me trying to convince someone where I might **** up when we can just do it guaranteed with a spell? I can steal stuff, that’s my thing but it’s also remarkably difficult to pull off because my perception/investigation doesn’t get much bonus and the DM is very unforgiving (I have to do a perception check to ‘see’ things of value and then slight of hand to steal them and sometimes a stealth check as well thrown in for good measure).
-Health, Iv got the lowest HP in the party and no healing abilities, everyone can cure wounds or lay on hands if need be but I’m also running directly in to combat because it’s the only way I can do anything in an encounter.
It’s great that everyone is having so much fun slinging spells but they are just the answer to every situation now. A whole encounter was ended with magic within the 5 minutes in our last session.
Evidently I just picked the wrong class for this campaign or I’m not playing it right. My thoughts are I should probably just multi class in to a fighter next time we level up and start again as at least some of my fighting skills are transferable.
Talk to your DM. It sounds like they're giving other folks a lot of leeway (charm person gives you advantage on skill checks, you still have to actually try and persuade them) so they might not be seeing the imbalance. If the DM won't change and won't find some ways to make similar leeway for you, I'd say either roll a new character who is a magic user (or multiclass with a spellcasting class) since I don't think fighter will help with the spell imbalance issues, or find a new group to play with.
Thanks for confirming my thoughts here, the DM is one of my best mates and has built a beautiful campaign for us but because of the pacing it’s massively favouring spell casters (and they are just getting all kinds of other perks). Iv spoken to him but he’s not quite seeing the problem and is just saying it’s fine and get on with the role play elements more but it’s just made me in to more of a rules lawyer when they are doing insane plays. We had 2 encounters in the last month where we were captured and all the fighters lost their weapons and had to fist fight their way out but spell casters were able to still use all there spells which felt dumb.
I haven't heard the DMs sid but it does sound as if they are being very leniant to the spellcasters but playing by the rules to you and habving a format which diadvantages a rogue as well.
It is the DMs perogative to be leniant and increase the power of the players over what is rules as written for example allowing the druid to turn into a flying animal at level 4 but it should be equal for all players. Having a long rest after every encounter really hurts a rogue as they do not have any limited resources (other than hit points) so they get to shine on the 6th encounter of the day when eveyone else is out of spell slots, channel divinity and whatever.
When PCs are captured it is standard practice to take away there weapons but also to take away the material pouches / foci of spell castersand prevent them casting other spells by tying them up (to prevent somantic componants) and gagging them (to prevent vocal components), they might also be blindfolded so they can not cast spells where you ar erequired to see the target. During normal play it is easy to forget the components of spells but ignoring them when taken captive is being VERY leniant on the spellcasters.
The Druid might be the healer but that doesn't mean that is all they should do. Healing is very inefficient in D&D especially in combat, it is usually better to kill the enemy so they wont do any more damage than to heal someone up only for the enemy to hit them again so they have less HP than they started with.
One solution to help balance the power is to get a magic item that is very powerful for you level. Something like a nine lives stealer would be very suitable for a rogue, which I think fits in with a rogue being able to do very large amounts of damage with a single strike.
You have said your DM doesn't see it, do they think you are helping the party as much as the other PCs or do they think they are doing less but that is not a problem because you can role play. If it is the later make it clear you are not enjoying the game because you feel your character is not making a useful contribution to the party. If the former you can try to point out the differences in what the other PCs are doing but it sounds like you have already dine that.
If your DM will not budge then your options are:
Tell your DM you are really not enjoying playing your rogue as you feel they are making very little contribution to the team and ask if you can retire your rogue and switch to playing another class
Rogues are very DM dependent for sneak attack, and a DM that's not permissible kills the class.
Bonus action to give reliable aim is good, and taking swashbuckler will remove a lot of that dependency on hiding and the DM.
Remember also rules as written if an ally is standing next to a target you get sneak attack, and remind the dm.
The other thing is your proficiencies and expertise. Bear them in mind. You should be getting big bonuses.
A lot of unnecessary hate seems to be directed at the rogue for being able to things very very well, plus they carry a reputation as well.... thieves and edgelords.
I agree with the above that it seems like your DM is being unfair but if you decide to stick with it those are some ways to mitigate. :(
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Iv been playing a campaign with my pals for a year now (25 sessions) and out DM has kept us fairly low level (level 4 currently) for all players and we haven’t really come it to much magic loot (other than our paladin that has has 2 insanely powerful weapons). I’m essentially just using starting equipment because nothing of use has been offered to me.
Im playing the Rogue (Drow Swashbuckler) in the party but I’m feeling severely out classed at the moment with magic users being able to do just about everything I can but better and without having to do skill checks.
the way we are playing we very rarely (if ever) have to have two combat encounters without a rest so spell slots are pretty much irrelevant.
Here are some of my issues and I feel like there is only got to get more disparity between me and the other players as we level up. Note that our Druid has been allowed to wild shape in to a pigeon and a manatee much earlier than he should be able to.
-Class skills, stuff like escaping which I should be great at, the Druid and wizard can just do without even having to roll for it, wild shape and misty step and they are free of any binding and can escape from any room. Yes these spells use spell slots but that becomes irrelevant because they just rest and get them back after every encounter.
-Combat, spell casters are already strong and going to get exponentially stronger here with very powerful AOF spells. Our Paladin is super strong and can use all weapons and has very powerful magic weapons already. Our Ranger, pretty much guaranteed hit with strong bow attack plus has a wolf that is as powerful as I am currently (lol). My sneak attacks have been very circumstantial even though I play them as well as I can and only doing as much damage as offensive ranged cantrips of the spellcasters. Our Druid said that he is playing a healer but is dishing out 10 times the damage I could without breaking a sweat with stuff like spike growth (he’s an experienced player and is power gaming despite claiming to be the healer).
-Utility, ok I can hide! But it’s pointless because I’m not going off on my own, I’m with the party so as soon as we are seen we are all seen, there are so few instances where me being able to hide on my own is really a benefit. Again, wild shape can just do this better, the Druid can literally just turn in to a bird and fly away in the same situation. I have decent charisma for persuasion but again spell casters have actually charm person spells that don’t even need to roll so why risk me trying to convince someone where I might **** up when we can just do it guaranteed with a spell? I can steal stuff, that’s my thing but it’s also remarkably difficult to pull off because my perception/investigation doesn’t get much bonus and the DM is very unforgiving (I have to do a perception check to ‘see’ things of value and then slight of hand to steal them and sometimes a stealth check as well thrown in for good measure).
-Health, Iv got the lowest HP in the party and no healing abilities, everyone can cure wounds or lay on hands if need be but I’m also running directly in to combat because it’s the only way I can do anything in an encounter.
It’s great that everyone is having so much fun slinging spells but they are just the answer to every situation now. A whole encounter was ended with magic within the 5 minutes in our last session.
Evidently I just picked the wrong class for this campaign or I’m not playing it right. My thoughts are I should probably just multi class in to a fighter next time we level up and start again as at least some of my fighting skills are transferable.
Any advice is appreciated 🙏
Talk to your DM. It sounds like they're giving other folks a lot of leeway (charm person gives you advantage on skill checks, you still have to actually try and persuade them) so they might not be seeing the imbalance. If the DM won't change and won't find some ways to make similar leeway for you, I'd say either roll a new character who is a magic user (or multiclass with a spellcasting class) since I don't think fighter will help with the spell imbalance issues, or find a new group to play with.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Thanks for confirming my thoughts here, the DM is one of my best mates and has built a beautiful campaign for us but because of the pacing it’s massively favouring spell casters (and they are just getting all kinds of other perks). Iv spoken to him but he’s not quite seeing the problem and is just saying it’s fine and get on with the role play elements more but it’s just made me in to more of a rules lawyer when they are doing insane plays. We had 2 encounters in the last month where we were captured and all the fighters lost their weapons and had to fist fight their way out but spell casters were able to still use all there spells which felt dumb.
I haven't heard the DMs sid but it does sound as if they are being very leniant to the spellcasters but playing by the rules to you and habving a format which diadvantages a rogue as well.
It is the DMs perogative to be leniant and increase the power of the players over what is rules as written for example allowing the druid to turn into a flying animal at level 4 but it should be equal for all players. Having a long rest after every encounter really hurts a rogue as they do not have any limited resources (other than hit points) so they get to shine on the 6th encounter of the day when eveyone else is out of spell slots, channel divinity and whatever.
When PCs are captured it is standard practice to take away there weapons but also to take away the material pouches / foci of spell castersand prevent them casting other spells by tying them up (to prevent somantic componants) and gagging them (to prevent vocal components), they might also be blindfolded so they can not cast spells where you ar erequired to see the target. During normal play it is easy to forget the components of spells but ignoring them when taken captive is being VERY leniant on the spellcasters.
The Druid might be the healer but that doesn't mean that is all they should do. Healing is very inefficient in D&D especially in combat, it is usually better to kill the enemy so they wont do any more damage than to heal someone up only for the enemy to hit them again so they have less HP than they started with.
One solution to help balance the power is to get a magic item that is very powerful for you level. Something like a nine lives stealer would be very suitable for a rogue, which I think fits in with a rogue being able to do very large amounts of damage with a single strike.
You have said your DM doesn't see it, do they think you are helping the party as much as the other PCs or do they think they are doing less but that is not a problem because you can role play. If it is the later make it clear you are not enjoying the game because you feel your character is not making a useful contribution to the party. If the former you can try to point out the differences in what the other PCs are doing but it sounds like you have already dine that.
If your DM will not budge then your options are:
Rogues are very DM dependent for sneak attack, and a DM that's not permissible kills the class.
Bonus action to give reliable aim is good, and taking swashbuckler will remove a lot of that dependency on hiding and the DM.
Remember also rules as written if an ally is standing next to a target you get sneak attack, and remind the dm.
The other thing is your proficiencies and expertise. Bear them in mind. You should be getting big bonuses.
A lot of unnecessary hate seems to be directed at the rogue for being able to things very very well, plus they carry a reputation as well.... thieves and edgelords.
I agree with the above that it seems like your DM is being unfair but if you decide to stick with it those are some ways to mitigate. :(