I'm really new to DnD so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I've been reading about some skill-monkey builds and a lot of them are really heavy on multiclassing (often having 3-5 classes that don't really fit together in a character concept). But in my opinion all you need is at least 11 levels in Rogue (doesn't matter which archetype) and at least 3 levels in Lore Bard. The best race would of course be Half-Elf because of skill versatility. This way by level 14 you have 12 Skill Proficiencies (in which you can't role lower than a 10), 6 Expertise and Jack of All Trades. Additionally you're a pretty competent rogue with some magical capabilities.
So what do guys think? Is this a viable build or not?
start as a bard and after getting to level 3 and taking college of lore switch to rogue... and if you want even more skills you can always take the Skilled feat somewhere along the way.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
There are probably a number of little reasons like that but I was thinking from a story standpoint, since you only need 3 levels of Bard you could get those first and then take up a life of crime and continue on as a Rogue.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Ok, but I'll probably take rogue first since you get one extra skill proficiency and expertise at level 1 and I'll probably take either the criminal or charlatan background, so my character is already on the opposite side of the law. Still thanks for the feedback
Rogue gives you 4 skills, 4 with expertise, play any race giving you 2 skills, I personally like the Tabaxi, your background gives you 2.
So far you have 1 class, 8 skills, 4 with expertise.
1 level of Knowledge Cleric will give you 2 Languages, +2 skills with expertise then 3 levels of Bard gives you 4 skills (1 when you pickup Bard, 3 at Lore Bard) and 2 of them with expertise.
you’ll have 14 skills, 8 of them with expertise. The skilled feat would get you three more and there are a ton of Feats that get you one skill to hit 18 (every skill)
So you could have a level 11 Rogue, 8 Lore Bard and 1 Knowledge Cleric and be proficient in every skill, able to take 10+ you modifier on all of them as a minimum.
But, realistically having every skill sounds nice, but is completely unnecessary. Out of curiosity why are you wanting to be a skill monkey?
probably not gonna take any levels in Cleric, since it doesn't fit my character and like you said being proficient in everything isn't necessary.
There are multiple reasons why I want to be a Skill Monkey, firstly I plan on playing this character as a really smug face of the party and being better at most things than the others supports this playstyle. Secondly most of my fellow party members tend to make really combat focused characters, which often comes back to haunt us in other Situation. I probably had other reasons, but I can' think of them right now.
Mostly i want to be really good at stealth and social interactions.
I also thought about just going straight Bard, since you can pretty much sneak just as well as a rogue, if not better and you get a lot of great utility spells and Jack of Trades at second level.
Going single class would get you to their higher level stuff faster as no levels are wasted on other classes. Just a suggestion but if you go half-elf for race you can pick up any 2 skills which allows you to customize to your liking and going bard allows for 3 more of your choice, that's any 5 skills to start. Plus you get a background which supplies 2 more, I would choose the background first to know which 2 skills you are getting then choose the other 5 to fill out what you want, and do not worry about missing any because you can go college of lore at 3rd level and choose any 3 again. And if all that was not enough you can take the skilled feat at 4th level and choose 3 more skills, although by now you should have most of what you need so if you feel having a tool proficiency or 2 is worth it you can pick them up with this feat (thieve's tools, poison kit etc.)
Another reason to go college of lore bard at 3rd level is to get cutting words. A fun and easy thing to do in combat situations which can really help your party members is to cast Bane on the enemies which makes it harder for them to hit your allies or save against spells and effects, follow this up by using Vicious Mockery which gives an enemy disadvantage on their very next attack, and finally you can use a reaction to deliver your Cutting Words ability to make the enemy less likely to hit. The final result is an attack from the enemy at disadvantage with a -1d4 penalty to hit plus another -1d6 penalty to hit (on average, disadvantage with a -6 to hit)... all while your allies pound this thing for all they're worth taking less to no attacks from it.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Yeah, I've given my final character to my DM today:
I'm now a Half-Elf Charlatan Bard and while I may dip a bit into Rogue later for the extra Expertise and the Cunning Action I plan on going at least 6 levels straight Bard for the beginning.
Still thanks to all of you for the tips
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I'm really new to DnD so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I've been reading about some skill-monkey builds and a lot of them are really heavy on multiclassing (often having 3-5 classes that don't really fit together in a character concept). But in my opinion all you need is at least 11 levels in Rogue (doesn't matter which archetype) and at least 3 levels in Lore Bard. The best race would of course be Half-Elf because of skill versatility. This way by level 14 you have 12 Skill Proficiencies (in which you can't role lower than a 10), 6 Expertise and Jack of All Trades. Additionally you're a pretty competent rogue with some magical capabilities.
So what do guys think? Is this a viable build or not?
start as a bard and after getting to level 3 and taking college of lore switch to rogue... and if you want even more skills you can always take the Skilled feat somewhere along the way.
Is there a mechanical advantage to starting as a bard opposed to rogue? Is it because Charisma is a better Saving Throw Proficiency than Intellegence?
There are probably a number of little reasons like that but I was thinking from a story standpoint, since you only need 3 levels of Bard you could get those first and then take up a life of crime and continue on as a Rogue.
Ok, but I'll probably take rogue first since you get one extra skill proficiency and expertise at level 1 and I'll probably take either the criminal or charlatan background, so my character is already on the opposite side of the law. Still thanks for the feedback
You can take 6 levels of rogue, eventually 11
Rogue gives you 4 skills, 4 with expertise, play any race giving you 2 skills, I personally like the Tabaxi, your background gives you 2.
So far you have 1 class, 8 skills, 4 with expertise.
1 level of Knowledge Cleric will give you 2 Languages, +2 skills with expertise then 3 levels of Bard gives you 4 skills (1 when you pickup Bard, 3 at Lore Bard) and 2 of them with expertise.
you’ll have 14 skills, 8 of them with expertise. The skilled feat would get you three more and there are a ton of Feats that get you one skill to hit 18 (every skill)
So you could have a level 11 Rogue, 8 Lore Bard and 1 Knowledge Cleric and be proficient in every skill, able to take 10+ you modifier on all of them as a minimum.
But, realistically having every skill sounds nice, but is completely unnecessary. Out of curiosity why are you wanting to be a skill monkey?
Hey AaronWho,
probably not gonna take any levels in Cleric, since it doesn't fit my character and like you said being proficient in everything isn't necessary.
There are multiple reasons why I want to be a Skill Monkey, firstly I plan on playing this character as a really smug face of the party and being better at most things than the others supports this playstyle. Secondly most of my fellow party members tend to make really combat focused characters, which often comes back to haunt us in other Situation. I probably had other reasons, but I can' think of them right now.
Mostly i want to be really good at stealth and social interactions.
I also thought about just going straight Bard, since you can pretty much sneak just as well as a rogue, if not better and you get a lot of great utility spells and Jack of Trades at second level.
Thanks anyway for the advice
Going single class would get you to their higher level stuff faster as no levels are wasted on other classes. Just a suggestion but if you go half-elf for race you can pick up any 2 skills which allows you to customize to your liking and going bard allows for 3 more of your choice, that's any 5 skills to start. Plus you get a background which supplies 2 more, I would choose the background first to know which 2 skills you are getting then choose the other 5 to fill out what you want, and do not worry about missing any because you can go college of lore at 3rd level and choose any 3 again. And if all that was not enough you can take the skilled feat at 4th level and choose 3 more skills, although by now you should have most of what you need so if you feel having a tool proficiency or 2 is worth it you can pick them up with this feat (thieve's tools, poison kit etc.)
Another reason to go college of lore bard at 3rd level is to get cutting words. A fun and easy thing to do in combat situations which can really help your party members is to cast Bane on the enemies which makes it harder for them to hit your allies or save against spells and effects, follow this up by using Vicious Mockery which gives an enemy disadvantage on their very next attack, and finally you can use a reaction to deliver your Cutting Words ability to make the enemy less likely to hit. The final result is an attack from the enemy at disadvantage with a -1d4 penalty to hit plus another -1d6 penalty to hit (on average, disadvantage with a -6 to hit)... all while your allies pound this thing for all they're worth taking less to no attacks from it.
Yeah, I've given my final character to my DM today:
I'm now a Half-Elf Charlatan Bard and while I may dip a bit into Rogue later for the extra Expertise and the Cunning Action I plan on going at least 6 levels straight Bard for the beginning.
Still thanks to all of you for the tips