Good point sorry ... I supposed I meant to "find traps" ... but what I'm wondering is if the new 2024 book states something like, "sleight of hand can be used to remove traps" - instead of just the bit they have in there under the thieves tools. The new book has too many of these "half thoughts" for something that was supposed to clarify and align disparate rules statements from the previous DMG and PHB.
Any ideas anyone? Thanks.
PS. Thanks for the comment but I'm wondering about RAW not what we would allow ... "This is DnD ... you can do/allow anything you want." TM, Urdu.
Mage hand legerdemain says you can use it for sleight of hand check, then sleight of hand gives example like picking a pocket, or hiding an item. But to my reading, picking a lock or disarming a trap is a check with thieves tools and dexterity. I don’t think it uses sleight of hand. I could be misunderstanding, though.
You wouldnt necessarily need to use mage hand to find traps. Finding trap would be perception first- no need to use Mage Hand if there is no trap. Assuming there IS a trap and your character perceives/notices it, they probably would need to do some investigation on how the trap works (is it magical, simple, or complex) and how to disarm it. the type of trap and setup would need to be known before you can move to the next step--which is disarming. Disarming a trap could be as simple as avoiding the area where there is a pit trap, or casting "Dispel Magic", or using ye old Thieves Tools. If it is a falling net w/ trip wire, you wouldnt need mage hand to disarm- you would just cut the trip wire.
According to the 2024 Player Handbook in the "Artisan's Tools" section for Thieves' Tools, it says "Utilize: Pick a lock [DC 15], or disarm a trap [DC 15])- which isn't very helpful." BUT in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, there is a nice section about traps and tool proficiencies. If you are proficient w thieves' tools (which you should be), it says additional investigation and perception insight is gained when looking for traps. You also have insight when it comes to the history and general knowledge of traps. Unfortunately, it says "Pick a lock [varies], Disarm a trap [varies] which...isnt helpful.
The Mage Hand could be controlled as a bonus action and invisible- you could make Dex (Slight of hand) checks which I'm guessing is going to go well for you :) If the "trap" is more than 30 ft away, you could always take the magic action on a later turn (perhaps allowing you time to get closer to the area you want) and move the hand again.
What Showme is saying is all true. The problem is ... it's sad they didn't make this clear and maybe worse ... it would be ridiculous if they nerfed Mage Hand Ledgerdemain ... part of a subclass of their new, weakest class.
Mage hand legerdemain says you can use it for sleight of hand check, then sleight of hand gives example like picking a pocket, or hiding an item. But to my reading, picking a lock or disarming a trap is a check with thieves tools and dexterity. I don’t think it uses sleight of hand. I could be misunderstanding, though.
It is slightly unclear, but I asked about this based on some things in the 2024 free rules, and the (small) consensus was that picking a lock/disarming a trap has now been rolled into Sleight of Hand (and therefore benefit from Sleight of Hand expertise).
As I understand it, anybody can try to disarm a trap or pick a lock if they are proficient with Thieve's tools.
Being proficient with both thieve's tools and Sleight of Hand will make you roll with advantage, as you are using the proper skill with the proper tool.
Mage hand can carry 10 pounds, so you can use your thieve's tool with it to make your Sleight of Hand check as an Arcane Trickster, and you get advantage if you are proficient with both the skill and the tool (which you should be).
A) Using a skill in wich you are proficient for a roll requiring a tool : impossible if you do not have the tool. You will not play your fiddle without your fiddle even if you are a proficient performer.
You may be proficient with Sleight of Hand, but you will not pick a lock without your tools.
B) Using a tool in wich you are proficient if you are not proficient with the skill : just add your proficiency bonus, as if you had the proficiency for this skill while using the tool. You know how to use this skill in a very specific way with a specific tool. You can play the fiddle, but your performance skill is for the fiddle and the fiddle only.
You are considered proficient with Sleight of hand, but only for using thieve's tools.
C) Using a skill with wich you are proficient with a tool with wich you are proficient : roll with your proficiency bonus and advantage. You can play the fiddle like a pro, and also dance and sing proficiently while doing it.
You can roll to pick a lock with your tools with advantage.
Can AT's use mage hand in 2024 to find traps at 30 foot range? Being a rogue at ranged is one major feature of the AT.
If so, what are they rolling to do so?
I think people have reasoned that the lock description (equipment) has convinced us that Sleight of Hand is used to pick locks.
If only WoTC could have accomplished their goal of collecting rules in one place and making them fully detailed.
Thanks.
Finding a trap is a perception check, so mage hand legerdemain wouldn’t apply. But I’d allow you to disarm it.
I allow to make a 'trigger traps' pass with mage hand.
But you don't know what will happen if you trigger it ^^
Good point sorry ... I supposed I meant to "find traps" ... but what I'm wondering is if the new 2024 book states something like, "sleight of hand can be used to remove traps" - instead of just the bit they have in there under the thieves tools. The new book has too many of these "half thoughts" for something that was supposed to clarify and align disparate rules statements from the previous DMG and PHB.
Any ideas anyone? Thanks.
PS. Thanks for the comment but I'm wondering about RAW not what we would allow ... "This is DnD ... you can do/allow anything you want." TM, Urdu.
Then I think, by RAW, maybe you can’t? 🤷♂️
Mage hand legerdemain says you can use it for sleight of hand check, then sleight of hand gives example like picking a pocket, or hiding an item. But to my reading, picking a lock or disarming a trap is a check with thieves tools and dexterity. I don’t think it uses sleight of hand. I could be misunderstanding, though.
You wouldnt necessarily need to use mage hand to find traps. Finding trap would be perception first- no need to use Mage Hand if there is no trap. Assuming there IS a trap and your character perceives/notices it, they probably would need to do some investigation on how the trap works (is it magical, simple, or complex) and how to disarm it. the type of trap and setup would need to be known before you can move to the next step--which is disarming. Disarming a trap could be as simple as avoiding the area where there is a pit trap, or casting "Dispel Magic", or using ye old Thieves Tools. If it is a falling net w/ trip wire, you wouldnt need mage hand to disarm- you would just cut the trip wire.
According to the 2024 Player Handbook in the "Artisan's Tools" section for Thieves' Tools, it says "Utilize: Pick a lock [DC 15], or disarm a trap [DC 15])- which isn't very helpful." BUT in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, there is a nice section about traps and tool proficiencies. If you are proficient w thieves' tools (which you should be), it says additional investigation and perception insight is gained when looking for traps. You also have insight when it comes to the history and general knowledge of traps. Unfortunately, it says "Pick a lock [varies], Disarm a trap [varies] which...isnt helpful.
The Mage Hand could be controlled as a bonus action and invisible- you could make Dex (Slight of hand) checks which I'm guessing is going to go well for you :) If the "trap" is more than 30 ft away, you could always take the magic action on a later turn (perhaps allowing you time to get closer to the area you want) and move the hand again.
I hope this helped!
What Showme is saying is all true. The problem is ... it's sad they didn't make this clear and maybe worse ... it would be ridiculous if they nerfed Mage Hand Ledgerdemain ... part of a subclass of their new, weakest class.
It is slightly unclear, but I asked about this based on some things in the 2024 free rules, and the (small) consensus was that picking a lock/disarming a trap has now been rolled into Sleight of Hand (and therefore benefit from Sleight of Hand expertise).
As I understand it, anybody can try to disarm a trap or pick a lock if they are proficient with Thieve's tools.
Being proficient with both thieve's tools and Sleight of Hand will make you roll with advantage, as you are using the proper skill with the proper tool.
Mage hand can carry 10 pounds, so you can use your thieve's tool with it to make your Sleight of Hand check as an Arcane Trickster, and you get advantage if you are proficient with both the skill and the tool (which you should be).
A) Using a skill in wich you are proficient for a roll requiring a tool : impossible if you do not have the tool. You will not play your fiddle without your fiddle even if you are a proficient performer.
You may be proficient with Sleight of Hand, but you will not pick a lock without your tools.
B) Using a tool in wich you are proficient if you are not proficient with the skill : just add your proficiency bonus, as if you had the proficiency for this skill while using the tool. You know how to use this skill in a very specific way with a specific tool. You can play the fiddle, but your performance skill is for the fiddle and the fiddle only.
You are considered proficient with Sleight of hand, but only for using thieve's tools.
C) Using a skill with wich you are proficient with a tool with wich you are proficient : roll with your proficiency bonus and advantage. You can play the fiddle like a pro, and also dance and sing proficiently while doing it.
You can roll to pick a lock with your tools with advantage.