Combat is more complex than it first appears, especially for a Thief. With numerous actions to consider each round, prioritizing Sneak Attacks is essential. As a Rogue, our focus should be on maximizing opportunities for Sneak Attacks, remembering all possible Bonus Actions, and making the best use of our Adventuring Gear.
Starting out, I developed this simple approach:
At range: - Maintain distance and use Hide as a Bonus Action to gain Advantage. - Vex an enemy to gain Advantage on the next attack without needing to hide. - Position myself to close in for melee if the situation calls for it.
In melee: - Prioritize enemies within 5 feet of an ally to meet Sneak Attack requirements. - Use my Action to attack with a Shortsword, applying Vex to an enemy. - If I miss, make a second attack as a Bonus Action with the Shortsword to Vex the target.
In all cases: - Priorize Sneak Attacks over other actions. - Try to gain Advantage on my attacks, even when within 5 feet of an ally. - If I cannot move, use Steady Aim. - If my attack misses, use my Bonus Action to attempt another attack. - If my attack hits, determine the best use of my Bonus Action to benefit the party.
This approach isn’t the most optimized strategy, but it’s effective in most situations. While it’s possible to map out all optimal moves and scenarios, I find it more practical to focus on mastering the basic combat rules and understanding which actions are available to me. Mastering the fundamentals is key to improving my proficiency.
Bonus Actions
Attack. If you took the Attack action and attacked with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack.
Dash. Move up twice your speed.
Disengage. Your movement doesn’t provoke Opportunity Attacks for the rest of the current turn.
Hide. DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and out of any enemy’s line of sight.
Steady Aim. You give yourself Advantage on your next attack roll on the current turn. You can use this feature only if you haven’t moved during this turn, and after you use it, your Speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.
Sleight of Hand. Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to ... - Pick a Lock. Pick a lock with Thieves’ Tools. - Disarm a trap. Disarm a trap with Thieves’ Tools. - Pick a pocket. Pick a pocket.
Use an Object. - Magic. Take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action. - Utilize. Take the Utilize action.
Cunning Strike
At Level 5, Rogue get Cunning Strike feature gives you three new options: Poison, Trip, and Withdraw.
Poison
Trade sneak attack damage to potentially give an enemy Disadvantage on attack rolls.
It's a valuable tool, but there are many factors to consider. The ideal use case is to poison other "rogue"-type adversaries, as they typically have low Constitution saving throws and high-damage attacks. However, warrior-type foes often have high Constitution saves, and many monsters are immune to the Poisoned condition. Choose your target carefully.
For a thorough analysis of this option, check out Firemind's Thief Handbook: Poison. Head over there if you want the full breakdown.
Trip
This can be a powerful option depending on the turn order. If the target will suffer multiple melee attacks before it can act again, it can significantly increase your party's damage potential. However, keep in mind that the Prone condition imposes disadvantage on ranged attacks. This might hinder your spellcasters or even you, depending on the situation.
This is more likely to succeed against "warrior"-type foes, as they often have lower Dexterity saving throws.
Additionally, the movement loss can be situationally useful.
Withdraw
This feature is absolutely fantastic and has numerous applications. It provides you with more adaptability, which is a key strength of the Rogue class. Always keep it in mind!
Adventuring Gear
Antitoxin. Gain Advantage on saving throws to avoid or end the Poisoned condition for 1 hour.
Ball Bearings. Spill Ball Bearings from their pouch. They spread to cover a level, 10-foot-square area within 10 feet of yourself. A creature that enters this area for the first time on a turn must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or have the Prone condition.
Caltrops. Spread Caltrops from their bag to cover a 5-foot-square area within 5 feet of yourself. A creature that enters this area for the first time on a turn must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or take 1 Piercing damage and have its Speed reduced to 0 until the start of its next turn.
Grappling Hook. Throw the Grappling Hook at a railing, a ledge, or another catch within 50 feet of yourself, and the hook catches on if you succeed on a DC 13 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If you tied a Rope to the hook, you can then climb it.
Healer’s Kit. Expend one of its uses to stabilize an Unconscious creature that has 0 Hit Points without needing to make a Wisdom (Medicine) check.
Manacles. Bind an unwilling Small or Medium creature within 5 feet of yourself that has the Grappled, Incapacitated, or Restrained condition if you succeed on a DC 13 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check.
Oil. Dousing a Space. Pour an Oil flask on level ground to cover a 5-foot-square area within 5 feet of yourself. If lit, the oil burns until the end of the turn 2 rounds from when the oil was lit (or 12 seconds) and deals 5 Fire damage to any creature that enters the area or ends its turn there. A creature can take this damage only once per turn.
Oil. Fuel. Extinguish burning Oil in a lamp.
Potion of Healing. Drink it or administer it to another creature within 5 feet of yourself. The creature that drinks the magical red fluid in this vial regains 2d4 + 2 Hit Points.
Rope. - Tie a knot with Rope if you succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check. The Rope can be burst with a successful DC 20 Strength (Athletics) check. - Bind an unwilling creature with the Rope only if the creature has the Grappled, Incapacitated, or Restrained condition. If the creature’s legs are bound, the creature has the Restrained condition until it escapes. Escaping the Rope requires the creature to make a successful DC 15 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check as an action.
Spikes, Iron. Use a blunt object, such as a Light Hammer, to hammer a spike into wood, earth, or a similar material. Do so to jam a door shut or to then tie a Rope or Chain to the Spike.
Tinderbox. Light a Candle, Lamp, Lantern, or Torch—or anything else with exposed fuel. Lighting any other fire takes 1 minute.
To me, this is the best "default" pick for the Thief. Vex allows you to gain Advantage on attacks, raising your chances to hit by about 25% and enabling Sneak Attacks. Furthermore, having access to both melee and range allow me to fully benefits from the Thief's movement, as I can always adapt to evolving situations. Shortswords have the Light property, meaning I can attack twice, using a Bonus Actions. This further increase my chances to Sneak Attack, and my adaptability in battle.
Of course, as you progress in your campaign, you will want to remain flexible with the weapon you find and the style of your campaign. Other weapon masteries might offer better tactical advantages. You should study each of Rogue weapon carefully, and always keep in mind which is the most beneficial to use. Vincent in Ronin has the perfect philophy on weapons. "It's a tool box. You put the tools in for the job. That's all."
I also want to highlight Battle for the Hundred Acre Woods - D&D Liveplay!!, which features Chris from Treantmonk's Temple playing a level seven rogue. During combat, he exclusively uses a Shortsword (Vex) and a Dagger (Nick). The Nick property on the Dagger allowed him to add 1d4 damage three times throughout the session. On those turns, he occasionally couldn’t use a Bonus Action. This further reinforced my understanding that dual wielding Shortswords is effective for consistently reapplying Vex on hit, even if it requires using a Bonus Action to make the off-hand attack.
Rules
Sneak Attack > You know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon. The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type. > You don’t need Advantage on the attack roll if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the target, the ally doesn’t have the Incapacitated condition, and you don’t have Disadvantage on the attack roll. > The extra damage increases as you gain Rogue levels, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue Features table.
Attack > When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike. > Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it. > Moving between Attacks. If you move on your turn and have a feature, such as Extra Attack, that gives you more than one attack as part of the Attack action, you can use some or all of that movement to move between those attacks.
Opportunity Attacks > Combatants watch for enemies to drop their guard. If you move heedlessly past your foes, you put yourself in danger by provoking an Opportunity Attack. > Avoiding Opportunity Attack. You can avoid provoking an Opportunity Attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don’t provoke an Opportunity Attack when you Teleport or when you are moved without using your movement, action, Bonus Action, or Reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an Opportunity Attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe’s reach or if you fall past an enemy. > Making an Opportunity Attack. You can make an Opportunity Attack when a creature that you can see leaves your reach. To make the attack, take a Reaction to make one melee attack with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike against that creature. The attack occurs right before it leaves your reach.
Prone > While you have the Prone condition, you experience the following effects. > Restricted Movement. Your only movement options are to crawl or to spend an amount of movement equal to half your Speed (round down) to right yourself and thereby end the condition. If your Speed is 0, you can’t right yourself. > Attacks Affected. You have Disadvantage on attack rolls. An attack roll against you has Advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of you. Otherwise, that attack roll has Disadvantage.
Weapon Properties: Light > When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Weapon Mastery: Nick > When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Weapon Mastery: Vex > If you hit a creature with this weapon and deal damage to the creature, you have Advantage on your next attack roll against that creature before the end of your next turn.
Wow, you really organized the options. I just played a 3rd level Rogue/thief in a 1-shot and really enjoyed it. Like you, in melee, I always prioritized enemies within 5 feet of an ally to meet Sneak Attack requirements. But instead of attacking first with a shortsword, I attacked with a scimitar, which almost always gave me 3 attacks per round, i.e.,
1 - Action: with advantage b/c of sneak attack, attack with a scimitar, which has the Nick property (which allows you to make an extra attack)
2 - If I hit in 1, use the scimitar again for the extra attack
3 - Bonus action: attack with a short sword.
I was having success on attacks and doing solid damage (more than the paladin that for some reason chose to use a quarterstaff as his primary weapon). Also, at 3rd level fast hands allowed me to use my switch out my bonus action attack with my shortsword for using my wand of magic missiles (which at higher levels will be a wand of fireballs). So, Rogues are really fun to play in melee, while they still are also a lot of fun to play in the exploration (e.g., finding and disarming traps, etc.) and social areas as well (e.g., persuasion, pick-pocket, etc.).
Wow, you really organized the options. I just played a 3rd level Rogue/thief in a 1-shot and really enjoyed it. Like you, in melee, I always prioritized enemies within 5 feet of an ally to meet Sneak Attack requirements. But instead of attacking first with a shortsword, I attacked with a scimitar, which almost always gave me 3 attacks per round, i.e.
Thanks for sharing this experience!
Let me make sure I’ve got this straight: you were using Nick and Vex as weapon masteries, making two Scimitars attacks and a Shortsword? I don’t think that’s quite possible as per the rules.
Here’s my reasoning: if you’re wielding a Light weapon with the Nick property and have mastery over it, the Nick property lets you make a second attack with your off-hand weapon as part of the same action—meaning your Bonus Action stays free. The way I interpret the rule is: “When you make the extra attack of the Light property [...] You can make this extra attack only once per turn.” So, even with the Nick mastery, you're limited to that one extra attack.
For comparison, Chris from Treantmonk’s channel ran a Melee Rogue with a Shortsword and Dagger using Vex and Nick, and he stuck to two attacks per round. Having a Tier 1 Ranger making three attacks per round, on top of Hunter’s Mark damage, would be pretty unbalanced at that level.
What do you think? Any rules clarification I’m missing?
So if I attack with a scimitar, which has the Nick property, and hit, I can make an extra attack with my short sword. Then I still have my bonus action. As a 3rd level Rogue, I have Fast Hands, which allows me to use my bonus action to take the Utilize action or the Magic action (e.g., use a wand, etc.). Are you saying I can't use my bonus action to attack with a second shortsword or scimitar? Or even a dagger?
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Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
So if I attack with a scimitar, which has the Nick property, and hit, I can make an extra attack with my short sword. Then I still have my bonus action. As a 3rd level Rogue, I have Fast Hands, which allows me to use my bonus action to take the Utilize action or the Magic action (e.g., use a wand, etc.). Are you saying I can't use my bonus action to attack with a second shortsword or scimitar? Or even a dagger?
In your first post, you mention this sequence of attacks: Scimitar (attack), Scimitar (extra attack), Shortsword (bonus action attack).
From my understanding, you can only make one extra attack, even when using the Nick property. The Nick property allows you to make an extra attack as part of the Attack action; therefore, you still retain your bonus action.
It’s worth noting that the Nick property states, "When you make the extra attack," not "If you hit a creature." This means you don’t need to hit a creature to gain the extra attack—it’s simply part of the Attack action. Additionally, you can use any other light weapon for the extra attack. For example, you could wield a Shortsword with the Vex mastery. If you hit, you then gain advantage on your next attack.
If you make an extra attack as part of your Attack action, you cannot make another extra attack using your bonus action.
Good to know that you don't have to hit to get the additional attack with a Nick weapon--not sure why I thought that.
Where do the rules say this: If you make an extra attack as part of your Attack action, you cannot make another extra attack using your bonus action
Weapon Properties: Light > When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
Weapon Mastery: Nick > When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
The Nick property doesn’t state that you get an extra attack. Instead, it clarifies that the extra attack you make due to the Light property can be performed as part of your attack action.
The first rule (Light) clearly states that you can only make one extra attack. The second rule (Nick) specifies that you can make this extra attack once per turn, referring to the attack granted by the Light property, not a separate attack from the Nick property. Therefore, the Nick property does not grant you an additional extra attack.
At least I still have my bonus action for something other than an attack action, e.g., dash, disengage, or hide; or at 3rd level a Thief gets Fast Hands, which allows me to take the Magic action, e.g., use a wand, etc. Anyone who plays a Thief will likely seek out magics item to cast spells, i.e., wand, rod, staff, ring, brooch, amulet, etc.
Level 3: Fast Hands
As a Bonus Action, you can do one of the following.
Sleight of Hand. Make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to pick a lock or disarm a trap with Thieves’ Tools or to pick a pocket.
Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
This post is part of Firemind’s Thief Handbook: 2024+ Edition—a comprehensive guide for the Thief subclass.
Combat is more complex than it first appears, especially for a Thief. With numerous actions to consider each round, prioritizing Sneak Attacks is essential. As a Rogue, our focus should be on maximizing opportunities for Sneak Attacks, remembering all possible Bonus Actions, and making the best use of our Adventuring Gear.
Starting out, I developed this simple approach:
At range:
- Maintain distance and use Hide as a Bonus Action to gain Advantage.
- Vex an enemy to gain Advantage on the next attack without needing to hide.
- Position myself to close in for melee if the situation calls for it.
In melee:
- Prioritize enemies within 5 feet of an ally to meet Sneak Attack requirements.
- Use my Action to attack with a Shortsword, applying Vex to an enemy.
- If I miss, make a second attack as a Bonus Action with the Shortsword to Vex the target.
In all cases:
- Priorize Sneak Attacks over other actions.
- Try to gain Advantage on my attacks, even when within 5 feet of an ally.
- If I cannot move, use Steady Aim.
- If my attack misses, use my Bonus Action to attempt another attack.
- If my attack hits, determine the best use of my Bonus Action to benefit the party.
Keep track of:
- Vexed targets.
- Sneak attack uses.
This approach isn’t the most optimized strategy, but it’s effective in most situations. While it’s possible to map out all optimal moves and scenarios, I find it more practical to focus on mastering the basic combat rules and understanding which actions are available to me. Mastering the fundamentals is key to improving my proficiency.
Bonus Actions
Attack. If you took the Attack action and attacked with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack.
Dash. Move up twice your speed.
Disengage. Your movement doesn’t provoke Opportunity Attacks for the rest of the current turn.
Hide. DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and out of any enemy’s line of sight.
Steady Aim. You give yourself Advantage on your next attack roll on the current turn. You can use this feature only if you haven’t moved during this turn, and after you use it, your Speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.
Sleight of Hand. Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check to ...
- Pick a Lock. Pick a lock with Thieves’ Tools.
- Disarm a trap. Disarm a trap with Thieves’ Tools.
- Pick a pocket. Pick a pocket.
Use an Object.
- Magic. Take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
- Utilize. Take the Utilize action.
Cunning Strike
At Level 5, Rogue get Cunning Strike feature gives you three new options: Poison, Trip, and Withdraw.
Poison
Trade sneak attack damage to potentially give an enemy Disadvantage on attack rolls.
It's a valuable tool, but there are many factors to consider. The ideal use case is to poison other "rogue"-type adversaries, as they typically have low Constitution saving throws and high-damage attacks. However, warrior-type foes often have high Constitution saves, and many monsters are immune to the Poisoned condition. Choose your target carefully.
For a thorough analysis of this option, check out Firemind's Thief Handbook: Poison. Head over there if you want the full breakdown.
Trip
This can be a powerful option depending on the turn order. If the target will suffer multiple melee attacks before it can act again, it can significantly increase your party's damage potential. However, keep in mind that the Prone condition imposes disadvantage on ranged attacks. This might hinder your spellcasters or even you, depending on the situation.
This is more likely to succeed against "warrior"-type foes, as they often have lower Dexterity saving throws.
Additionally, the movement loss can be situationally useful.
Withdraw
This feature is absolutely fantastic and has numerous applications. It provides you with more adaptability, which is a key strength of the Rogue class. Always keep it in mind!
Adventuring Gear
Antitoxin. Gain Advantage on saving throws to avoid or end the Poisoned condition for 1 hour.
Ball Bearings. Spill Ball Bearings from their pouch. They spread to cover a level, 10-foot-square area within 10 feet of yourself. A creature that enters this area for the first time on a turn must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or have the Prone condition.
Caltrops. Spread Caltrops from their bag to cover a 5-foot-square area within 5 feet of yourself. A creature that enters this area for the first time on a turn must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or take 1 Piercing damage and have its Speed reduced to 0 until the start of its next turn.
Grappling Hook. Throw the Grappling Hook at a railing, a ledge, or another catch within 50 feet of yourself, and the hook catches on if you succeed on a DC 13 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If you tied a Rope to the hook, you can then climb it.
Healer’s Kit. Expend one of its uses to stabilize an Unconscious creature that has 0 Hit Points without needing to make a Wisdom (Medicine) check.
Manacles. Bind an unwilling Small or Medium creature within 5 feet of yourself that has the Grappled, Incapacitated, or Restrained condition if you succeed on a DC 13 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check.
Oil. Dousing a Space. Pour an Oil flask on level ground to cover a 5-foot-square area within 5 feet of yourself. If lit, the oil burns until the end of the turn 2 rounds from when the oil was lit (or 12 seconds) and deals 5 Fire damage to any creature that enters the area or ends its turn there. A creature can take this damage only once per turn.
Oil. Fuel. Extinguish burning Oil in a lamp.
Potion of Healing. Drink it or administer it to another creature within 5 feet of yourself. The creature that drinks the magical red fluid in this vial regains 2d4 + 2 Hit Points.
Rope.
- Tie a knot with Rope if you succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check. The Rope can be burst with a successful DC 20 Strength (Athletics) check.
- Bind an unwilling creature with the Rope only if the creature has the Grappled, Incapacitated, or Restrained condition. If the creature’s legs are bound, the creature has the Restrained condition until it escapes. Escaping the Rope requires the creature to make a successful DC 15 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check as an action.
Spikes, Iron. Use a blunt object, such as a Light Hammer, to hammer a spike into wood, earth, or a similar material. Do so to jam a door shut or to then tie a Rope or Chain to the Spike.
Tinderbox. Light a Candle, Lamp, Lantern, or Torch—or anything else with exposed fuel. Lighting any other fire takes 1 minute.
Weapons
A concise list of the weapons I actually use:
Weapon masteries
My default pick: Shortbow (Vex), Shortsword (Vex)
To me, this is the best "default" pick for the Thief. Vex allows you to gain Advantage on attacks, raising your chances to hit by about 25% and enabling Sneak Attacks. Furthermore, having access to both melee and range allow me to fully benefits from the Thief's movement, as I can always adapt to evolving situations. Shortswords have the Light property, meaning I can attack twice, using a Bonus Actions. This further increase my chances to Sneak Attack, and my adaptability in battle.
Of course, as you progress in your campaign, you will want to remain flexible with the weapon you find and the style of your campaign. Other weapon masteries might offer better tactical advantages. You should study each of Rogue weapon carefully, and always keep in mind which is the most beneficial to use. Vincent in Ronin has the perfect philophy on weapons. "It's a tool box. You put the tools in for the job. That's all."
I also want to highlight Battle for the Hundred Acre Woods - D&D Liveplay!!, which features Chris from Treantmonk's Temple playing a level seven rogue. During combat, he exclusively uses a Shortsword (Vex) and a Dagger (Nick). The Nick property on the Dagger allowed him to add 1d4 damage three times throughout the session. On those turns, he occasionally couldn’t use a Bonus Action. This further reinforced my understanding that dual wielding Shortswords is effective for consistently reapplying Vex on hit, even if it requires using a Bonus Action to make the off-hand attack.
Rules
Sneak Attack
> You know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon. The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type.
> You don’t need Advantage on the attack roll if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the target, the ally doesn’t have the Incapacitated condition, and you don’t have Disadvantage on the attack roll.
> The extra damage increases as you gain Rogue levels, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue Features table.
Attack
> When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
> Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
> Moving between Attacks. If you move on your turn and have a feature, such as Extra Attack, that gives you more than one attack as part of the Attack action, you can use some or all of that movement to move between those attacks.
Opportunity Attacks
> Combatants watch for enemies to drop their guard. If you move heedlessly past your foes, you put yourself in danger by provoking an Opportunity Attack.
> Avoiding Opportunity Attack. You can avoid provoking an Opportunity Attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don’t provoke an Opportunity Attack when you Teleport or when you are moved without using your movement, action, Bonus Action, or Reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an Opportunity Attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe’s reach or if you fall past an enemy.
> Making an Opportunity Attack. You can make an Opportunity Attack when a creature that you can see leaves your reach. To make the attack, take a Reaction to make one melee attack with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike against that creature. The attack occurs right before it leaves your reach.
Prone
> While you have the Prone condition, you experience the following effects.
> Restricted Movement. Your only movement options are to crawl or to spend an amount of movement equal to half your Speed (round down) to right yourself and thereby end the condition. If your Speed is 0, you can’t right yourself.
> Attacks Affected. You have Disadvantage on attack rolls. An attack roll against you has Advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of you. Otherwise, that attack roll has Disadvantage.
Weapon Properties: Light
> When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Weapon Mastery: Nick
> When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Weapon Mastery: Vex
> If you hit a creature with this weapon and deal damage to the creature, you have Advantage on your next attack roll against that creature before the end of your next turn.
Wow, you really organized the options. I just played a 3rd level Rogue/thief in a 1-shot and really enjoyed it. Like you, in melee, I always prioritized enemies within 5 feet of an ally to meet Sneak Attack requirements. But instead of attacking first with a shortsword, I attacked with a scimitar, which almost always gave me 3 attacks per round, i.e.,
I was having success on attacks and doing solid damage (more than the paladin that for some reason chose to use a quarterstaff as his primary weapon). Also, at 3rd level fast hands allowed me to use my switch out my bonus action attack with my shortsword for using my wand of magic missiles (which at higher levels will be a wand of fireballs). So, Rogues are really fun to play in melee, while they still are also a lot of fun to play in the exploration (e.g., finding and disarming traps, etc.) and social areas as well (e.g., persuasion, pick-pocket, etc.).
Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Thanks for sharing this experience!
Let me make sure I’ve got this straight: you were using Nick and Vex as weapon masteries, making two Scimitars attacks and a Shortsword? I don’t think that’s quite possible as per the rules.
Here’s my reasoning: if you’re wielding a Light weapon with the Nick property and have mastery over it, the Nick property lets you make a second attack with your off-hand weapon as part of the same action—meaning your Bonus Action stays free. The way I interpret the rule is: “When you make the extra attack of the Light property [...] You can make this extra attack only once per turn.” So, even with the Nick mastery, you're limited to that one extra attack.
For comparison, Chris from Treantmonk’s channel ran a Melee Rogue with a Shortsword and Dagger using Vex and Nick, and he stuck to two attacks per round. Having a Tier 1 Ranger making three attacks per round, on top of Hunter’s Mark damage, would be pretty unbalanced at that level.
What do you think? Any rules clarification I’m missing?
So if I attack with a scimitar, which has the Nick property, and hit, I can make an extra attack with my short sword. Then I still have my bonus action. As a 3rd level Rogue, I have Fast Hands, which allows me to use my bonus action to take the Utilize action or the Magic action (e.g., use a wand, etc.). Are you saying I can't use my bonus action to attack with a second shortsword or scimitar? Or even a dagger?
Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
In your first post, you mention this sequence of attacks: Scimitar (attack), Scimitar (extra attack), Shortsword (bonus action attack).
From my understanding, you can only make one extra attack, even when using the Nick property. The Nick property allows you to make an extra attack as part of the Attack action; therefore, you still retain your bonus action.
It’s worth noting that the Nick property states, "When you make the extra attack," not "If you hit a creature." This means you don’t need to hit a creature to gain the extra attack—it’s simply part of the Attack action. Additionally, you can use any other light weapon for the extra attack. For example, you could wield a Shortsword with the Vex mastery. If you hit, you then gain advantage on your next attack.
If you make an extra attack as part of your Attack action, you cannot make another extra attack using your bonus action.
Good to know that you don't have to hit to get the additional attack with a Nick weapon--not sure why I thought that.
Where do the rules say this:
Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Weapon Properties: Light
> When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
Weapon Mastery: Nick
> When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
The Nick property doesn’t state that you get an extra attack. Instead, it clarifies that the extra attack you make due to the Light property can be performed as part of your attack action.
The first rule (Light) clearly states that you can only make one extra attack. The second rule (Nick) specifies that you can make this extra attack once per turn, referring to the attack granted by the Light property, not a separate attack from the Nick property. Therefore, the Nick property does not grant you an additional extra attack.
Thanks. That makes sense.
At least I still have my bonus action for something other than an attack action, e.g., dash, disengage, or hide; or at 3rd level a Thief gets Fast Hands, which allows me to take the Magic action, e.g., use a wand, etc. Anyone who plays a Thief will likely seek out magics item to cast spells, i.e., wand, rod, staff, ring, brooch, amulet, etc.
Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
That should be constitution.
You are winning the game. Good job! Oh wait...
Thank you. Fixed.