Going over the new Soulknife subclass, it does not seem like a character would have a weapon available to make an AoO if they kept their hands free to get the bonus psy blade attack on their turn; unless they draw a weapon before they end their turn I suppose.
Am I reading that right? It seems like a Soulknife should be able to use his psy blade for an AoO during his reaction.
Unfortunately yes the soul knife as written doesn’t have a psychic blade outside their turn. A psychic blade only comes out during an Attack action and the bonus action after the Attack action, not an attack during a reaction, and lasts only for the attack, and disappears once it hits or misses the target.
Unfortunately yes the soul knife as written doesn’t have a psychic blade outside their turn. A psychic blade only comes out during an Attack action and the bonus action after the Attack action, not an attack during a reaction, and lasts only for the attack, and disappears once it hits or misses the target.
For the sake of completeness, you can use a psychic blade when it's not your turn if you ready an Attack action. But this is correct 99% of the time, taking an opportunity attack isn't the same as taking the Attack action so you can't make opportunity attacks with psychic blades.
Is this an oversight in development, because it seems to punish the soul knife for using his bonus action attack. I wonder if the RAI meets the RAW in this case, thoughts?
In the end it does allow the rouge another chance at sneak attack if they missed the first attack, and I suppose that is worth loosing your reaction over...
Surely this must be an oversight. I feel like they've so focused on keeping the feature from being abused somehow, that they accidently made it impossible use with a very basic combat function.. I'd expect this to be fixed eventually and untill then I expect any DM would allow you to summon it for an AoO
I was thinking a 3 soulknife/ x bladesinger with the war caster feat. The extra attack and movement speed from bladesinging and the sneak attack and cunning actions from rouge make for an interesting hit and run. with warcaster for AoO and maintaining concentration.
Or a race with a natural weapon and 4 soulknife/x non-moon druid. I feel like it would give the druid something to do with after they cast a concentration spell. Also if I wildshape into a creature with hands, like a monkey, can I still use a physic blade? How crazy of an assassin would that be, killing someone as a monkey leaving no marks on the body. Even if someone saw you who would believe it?
The psychic blade is a manifestation of the mind that triggers a manifestation of the psychic blade into the hand of the Soulknife as the Soulknife makes an attack. The psychic energy is there in a flash and gone in a flash/flicker, leaving no marks. What the Soulknife sees in their head appears in their hand during the motion. It's not a spell, nor a drawing of a weapon. It's how quickly the Soulknife attacks and the psychic weapon will be there for the attack. This may be my interpretation only, but and this would allow AoO.
When an opponent runs from the Soulknife, the Soulknife attacks and the psychic blade appears as the attack is coming through. It's a melee weapon attack with the psychic blade that is generated from the mind of the Soulknife.
Maybe it could have been clearer, but that's what I thought based on my understanding of the AoO & Combat rules. I just moved the inner sentences to the bottom of the description, which (to me) makes it clearer:
Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
This is my interpretation for AoO:
Whenever you take an attack of opportunity, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
Maybe it could have been clearer, but that's what I thought based on my understanding of the AoO & Combat rules. I just moved the inner sentences to the bottom of the description, which (to me) makes it clearer:
Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
This is my interpretation for AoO:
Whenever you take an attack of opportunity, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
The problem is that attacks can be made without using the attack action. Opportunity attacks are one such example, but there are also cases where an attack is made as part of casting a spell. In any case where you're making an attack that isn't part of the attack action, the soulknife doesn't have their psychic blades available.
Note, this is only the RAW, if I were DMing it, I would absolutely allow them to use the blades for opportunity attacks.
Maybe it could have been clearer, but that's what I thought based on my understanding of the AoO & Combat rules. I just moved the inner sentences to the bottom of the description, which (to me) makes it clearer:
Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
This is my interpretation for AoO:
Whenever you take an attack of opportunity, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
The problem is that attacks can be made without using the attack action. Opportunity attacks are one such example, but there are also cases where an attack is made as part of casting a spell. In any case where you're making an attack that isn't part of the attack action, the soulknife doesn't have their psychic blades available.
Note, this is only the RAW, if I were DMing it, I would absolutely allow them to use the blades for opportunity attacks.
I'd agree that it's RAI.
When I see "Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade.", I know the word "can" is there to take into account someone having a weapon already in their hand. I also see "Attack", which is a very specific Action. It is different than another action, like casting a spell, which is why casting a spell (unless you have certain features) aren't possible for opportunity attacks. If I modify the text to eliminate the concept of having something in ones hand, it'd read "Whenever you take the Attack action, you manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade." It is very explicit in calling out Attack in the text.
Even when I look at the picture in Tasha's, it's a Soulknife halfling with a manifesting psychic blade over a closed fist (a free hand) about to attack. It's definitely an interesting concept, but I think there is a strong case that the Soulknife can make AoO based on the above logic on how an Opportunity Attack is a subset of Making the Attack, which is a subset of the Attack action.
I'll even go down a slightly different path of the "Ready" action, where a player holds their action until a trigger occurs. Much like the Opportunity attack, this uses the reaction. A DM would have to rule that the manifestation of the psychic blade is "held" like a spell or triggered as part of the Attack. Going back to the original text, it's explicit in saying the Attack action, so the Soulknife isn't manifesting and holding the psychic blade, but upon the Attack, with a free hand, manifests and strikes at the opponent. All this stems from the term Attack vs. anything else they could have picked.
This is all subject to Sage Advice overruling any of this... LOL...
Or a race with a natural weapon and 4 soulknife/x non-moon druid. I feel like it would give the druid something to do with after they cast a concentration spell. Also if I wildshape into a creature with hands, like a monkey, can I still use a physic blade? How crazy of an assassin would that be, killing someone as a monkey leaving no marks on the body. Even if someone saw you who would believe it?
Psychic Blades are simple weapons, dealing 1d6 psychic damage, with the Finesse and Thrown (20/60) properties. They lack the Light property, and so cannot be used with manufactured weapons for the purpose of Two-Weapon Fighting without the Dual Wielder feat. But as a trade-off, you don't need the feat. They can attack anyway with a 1d4 blade that carries all the same properties. They both disappear as soon as the attack is resolved, regardless of whether or not it hits and does damage.
Yeah, it looks like you can't use them for opportunity attacks. That's a bummer.
Psychic Blades are simple weapons, dealing 1d6 psychic damage, with the Finesse and Thrown (20/60) properties. They lack the Light property, and so cannot be used with manufactured weapons for the purpose of Two-Weapon Fighting without the Dual Wielder feat. But as a trade-off, you don't need the feat. They can attack anyway with a 1d4 blade that carries all the same properties. They both disappear as soon as the attack is resolved, regardless of whether or not it hits and does damage.
Yeah, it looks like you can't use them for opportunity attacks. That's a bummer.
I'd work with your DM if you're concerned.
RAW the Attack and attack are different, as Attack is connected to the Attack action. That said, the simple work around is a sloppy one and so RAI comes into play.
Option 1: DM allows you to use psychic blade for attacks of opportunity (if they come) for additional sneak attack damage.
Option 2: You hold a dagger or shortsword or rapier or scimitar. On your turn you decide to use your action and bonus action for psychic blade attacks. You can drop the weapon, attack twice & pick up the weapon. Dropping something doesn't effectively use any effort, so it doesn't count as your free action but picking it up does...Reference: Sage Advice from 2015 that discusses dropping something taking no effort, but picking something up takes some.
The second option is valid, from my understanding of RAW, but is sloppy and a work around for a case where a Rogue may be able to get additional sneak attack damage on an opportunity attack.
That's why the argument of RAI vs. RAW is made above. A DM has the discretion to decide if you can use a psychic blade on an opportunity attack. The DM could say "no". The second option then works and it does allow for some flavor text, where you could enter combat, dropping your weapon just as you enter melee range, slashing your opponent with your psychic blades (action and bonus action) and before the weapon has time to bounce twice you swipe it up, readying for your opponents move.... Rogue's are a bit squishy, and have the bonus action to disengage and move away. My assumption is if I enter melee range it is to flank an opponent, gain advantage for the sneak attack, and disengage.
This doesn't take into account an opponent who may stalk you, attack and move away (assuming they're not a rogue disengaging, don't have the mobility feat, and you don't have the sentinel feat if they do attempt to disengage). In most cases, the rogue can attempt to hide, gain advantage at distance, attack, move and hide again to gain advantage on the next turn. Or stay at a distance and use steady aim, but lose your bonus action for movement and hiding. The hiding is good, because it can put your opponent at disadvantage to attack you, while being in melee range is a challenge for most straight up rogues. The assassin in me lurks in the shadows, picking apart my enemy from the shadows and using the psychic blades to hide the damage.. and when they fall, I slip away in the shadows, no one the wiser... and no evidence of my actions :)
Are we ok on shoving or grappling as AoO? I can see an AoO with Soul Knife's psychic blade being waved off and DM narratively handwavium explaining that the psychic blade requires a mental intentionality beyond the parameters of an AoO; but if the game was amenable to shoves and grapples as AoO, I could say the Soul Knife could attempt to intervene by shoving the target or grappling the target, release as a free action then setting their mind to soul knifing as their attack action.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
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Going over the new Soulknife subclass, it does not seem like a character would have a weapon available to make an AoO if they kept their hands free to get the bonus psy blade attack on their turn; unless they draw a weapon before they end their turn I suppose.
Am I reading that right? It seems like a Soulknife should be able to use his psy blade for an AoO during his reaction.
I would say yes as you are taking an attack action, just it's an AoO
Unfortunately yes the soul knife as written doesn’t have a psychic blade outside their turn. A psychic blade only comes out during an Attack action and the bonus action after the Attack action, not an attack during a reaction, and lasts only for the attack, and disappears once it hits or misses the target.
For the sake of completeness, you can use a psychic blade when it's not your turn if you ready an Attack action. But this is correct 99% of the time, taking an opportunity attack isn't the same as taking the Attack action so you can't make opportunity attacks with psychic blades.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Is this an oversight in development, because it seems to punish the soul knife for using his bonus action attack. I wonder if the RAI meets the RAW in this case, thoughts?
In the end it does allow the rouge another chance at sneak attack if they missed the first attack, and I suppose that is worth loosing your reaction over...
This seems like an oversight to me. Though I guess you could still:
Surely this must be an oversight. I feel like they've so focused on keeping the feature from being abused somehow, that they accidently made it impossible use with a very basic combat function.. I'd expect this to be fixed eventually and untill then I expect any DM would allow you to summon it for an AoO
Interesting I missed that, good catch. I agree about it being an oversight, it does make for an interesting caster multiclass though.
You're right, I'll have to look into what a good combo would be! Have any off the top of your head?
Kinda wondering if a Gith Soul Knife/Aberrant Mind Sorcerer would be fun...
I'll have to look into that. I'm still trying to come up with some cool knife throwing builds...
I think a battlemaster with the new thrown weapon fighting style from Tasha's would be right up your alley then :)
I was thinking a 3 soulknife/ x bladesinger with the war caster feat. The extra attack and movement speed from bladesinging and the sneak attack and cunning actions from rouge make for an interesting hit and run. with warcaster for AoO and maintaining concentration.
Or a race with a natural weapon and 4 soulknife/x non-moon druid. I feel like it would give the druid something to do with after they cast a concentration spell. Also if I wildshape into a creature with hands, like a monkey, can I still use a physic blade? How crazy of an assassin would that be, killing someone as a monkey leaving no marks on the body. Even if someone saw you who would believe it?
IMO - The Soulknife can make AoO.
The psychic blade is a manifestation of the mind that triggers a manifestation of the psychic blade into the hand of the Soulknife as the Soulknife makes an attack. The psychic energy is there in a flash and gone in a flash/flicker, leaving no marks. What the Soulknife sees in their head appears in their hand during the motion. It's not a spell, nor a drawing of a weapon. It's how quickly the Soulknife attacks and the psychic weapon will be there for the attack. This may be my interpretation only, but and this would allow AoO.
When an opponent runs from the Soulknife, the Soulknife attacks and the psychic blade appears as the attack is coming through. It's a melee weapon attack with the psychic blade that is generated from the mind of the Soulknife.
Maybe it could have been clearer, but that's what I thought based on my understanding of the AoO & Combat rules. I just moved the inner sentences to the bottom of the description, which (to me) makes it clearer:
Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
This is my interpretation for AoO:
Whenever you take an attack of opportunity, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll.
The problem is that attacks can be made without using the attack action. Opportunity attacks are one such example, but there are also cases where an attack is made as part of casting a spell. In any case where you're making an attack that isn't part of the attack action, the soulknife doesn't have their psychic blades available.
Note, this is only the RAW, if I were DMing it, I would absolutely allow them to use the blades for opportunity attacks.
I'd agree that it's RAI.
When I see "Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade.", I know the word "can" is there to take into account someone having a weapon already in their hand. I also see "Attack", which is a very specific Action. It is different than another action, like casting a spell, which is why casting a spell (unless you have certain features) aren't possible for opportunity attacks. If I modify the text to eliminate the concept of having something in ones hand, it'd read "Whenever you take the Attack action, you manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade." It is very explicit in calling out Attack in the text.
The Attack action, in the Basic Rules, leads to the "Making the Attack". An "Opportunity Attack" is a subset of the "Making the Attack".
Even when I look at the picture in Tasha's, it's a Soulknife halfling with a manifesting psychic blade over a closed fist (a free hand) about to attack. It's definitely an interesting concept, but I think there is a strong case that the Soulknife can make AoO based on the above logic on how an Opportunity Attack is a subset of Making the Attack, which is a subset of the Attack action.
I'll even go down a slightly different path of the "Ready" action, where a player holds their action until a trigger occurs. Much like the Opportunity attack, this uses the reaction. A DM would have to rule that the manifestation of the psychic blade is "held" like a spell or triggered as part of the Attack. Going back to the original text, it's explicit in saying the Attack action, so the Soulknife isn't manifesting and holding the psychic blade, but upon the Attack, with a free hand, manifests and strikes at the opponent. All this stems from the term Attack vs. anything else they could have picked.
This is all subject to Sage Advice overruling any of this... LOL...
"... bad dates" - Sallah
Okay, so...
Psychic Blades are simple weapons, dealing 1d6 psychic damage, with the Finesse and Thrown (20/60) properties. They lack the Light property, and so cannot be used with manufactured weapons for the purpose of Two-Weapon Fighting without the Dual Wielder feat. But as a trade-off, you don't need the feat. They can attack anyway with a 1d4 blade that carries all the same properties. They both disappear as soon as the attack is resolved, regardless of whether or not it hits and does damage.
Yeah, it looks like you can't use them for opportunity attacks. That's a bummer.
I'd work with your DM if you're concerned.
RAW the Attack and attack are different, as Attack is connected to the Attack action. That said, the simple work around is a sloppy one and so RAI comes into play.
Option 1: DM allows you to use psychic blade for attacks of opportunity (if they come) for additional sneak attack damage.
Option 2: You hold a dagger or shortsword or rapier or scimitar. On your turn you decide to use your action and bonus action for psychic blade attacks. You can drop the weapon, attack twice & pick up the weapon. Dropping something doesn't effectively use any effort, so it doesn't count as your free action but picking it up does...Reference: Sage Advice from 2015 that discusses dropping something taking no effort, but picking something up takes some.
The second option is valid, from my understanding of RAW, but is sloppy and a work around for a case where a Rogue may be able to get additional sneak attack damage on an opportunity attack.
That's why the argument of RAI vs. RAW is made above. A DM has the discretion to decide if you can use a psychic blade on an opportunity attack. The DM could say "no". The second option then works and it does allow for some flavor text, where you could enter combat, dropping your weapon just as you enter melee range, slashing your opponent with your psychic blades (action and bonus action) and before the weapon has time to bounce twice you swipe it up, readying for your opponents move.... Rogue's are a bit squishy, and have the bonus action to disengage and move away. My assumption is if I enter melee range it is to flank an opponent, gain advantage for the sneak attack, and disengage.
This doesn't take into account an opponent who may stalk you, attack and move away (assuming they're not a rogue disengaging, don't have the mobility feat, and you don't have the sentinel feat if they do attempt to disengage). In most cases, the rogue can attempt to hide, gain advantage at distance, attack, move and hide again to gain advantage on the next turn. Or stay at a distance and use steady aim, but lose your bonus action for movement and hiding. The hiding is good, because it can put your opponent at disadvantage to attack you, while being in melee range is a challenge for most straight up rogues. The assassin in me lurks in the shadows, picking apart my enemy from the shadows and using the psychic blades to hide the damage.. and when they fall, I slip away in the shadows, no one the wiser... and no evidence of my actions :)
Are we ok on shoving or grappling as AoO? I can see an AoO with Soul Knife's psychic blade being waved off and DM narratively handwavium explaining that the psychic blade requires a mental intentionality beyond the parameters of an AoO; but if the game was amenable to shoves and grapples as AoO, I could say the Soul Knife could attempt to intervene by shoving the target or grappling the target, release as a free action then setting their mind to soul knifing as their attack action.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.