I use to have Cure Wounds as a Celestial Warlock and Hex as my Fey Touched spell to top off my parties health before a short rest, but it seems a little pointless with my pact abilities. So i swapped out Hex for Silvery Barbs and then swapped out cure wounds for Hex so I can keep Hex. I know Silvery Barbs doesn’t improve with higher spell slots, but it is arguably the best first level spell and arguably one of the best spells in the game. So what do you all think? Do I go for something more traditional like Hex as my fey touched spell, or is there another more leveled up spell I could go with? Either way, do I keep hex as a normal spell or go with something else more traditional like armor of agathas or protection over evil and good?
Silvery Barbs is so good because it's a 1st level spell. It's a very powerful spell because the investment is very low. That's why it gets better and better as you level up. For a warlock it's still a good spell, but not nearly as good as for other classes. It's the same as Shield. Is it good? Very. Is it good for a warlock? Well...kind of? Not bad, but not nearly as good as it is for a wizard or the like.
That said, Fey Touched doesn't have too many powerful spells. Gift of Alacrity is actually really good. Bless is also pretty good. Hex isn't actually very good, especially if you can't upcast it (as in, the free Fey Touched use).
What do you mean with "more traditional"? Hex seems as traditional as it gets when it comes to warlocks. Definitely more than Protection From Evil and Good.
Ultimately, go for whatever you like better. The ones you said are fine. None of them would be a mistake to take.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Talking to you both actually reminded me of something: the Fey Touched spell only functions as a level 1 spell regardless of my level. Thus I would want something learned naturally that levels up with me well. Hex unfortunately does not scale well, so I’m thinking i reassign it as my Fey Touched spell and learn a more proper spell for a warlocks abilities instead.
A big thanks to each of you for your input! Everyone feel free to reply with what upgradable level 1 spell i should learn.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
Any CR 0 creature you want, like a spider. Cast, kill, now you have hex going for X hours and you got the slot back after the short rest.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
Any CR 0 creature you want, like a spider. Cast, kill, now you have hex going for X hours and you got the slot back after the short rest.
Right. I forgot there's people who actually play like that and DMs that actually allow it.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
Any CR 0 creature you want, like a spider. Cast, kill, now you have hex going for X hours and you got the slot back after the short rest.
Right. I forgot there's people who actually play like that and DMs that actually allow it.
You mean as the rules are written and intended. How shocking people play their character like they aren't drooling morons.
Honestly I am kind of with Sookie. I frown very hard on things that feel and look like action economy exploits, and that tactic absolutely reeks of it. It's a valid tactic, but I'd not be pleased with a player who tried it.
That said, I tend to play a lot of warlocks and I tend to also not like to cast hex so much after the first few levels (I typically prefer to use conc on other things), so it's kind of six in one, half dozen in the other.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
AH, Silvery Barbs the spell most often banned at tables everywhere. 1st level spell, that does the same things as casting 3 other spells, all for the low low cost of a reaction. At a minimum they should have made that spell 3rd level.
Sorry, you lost me as soon as you said Silvery Barbs, very few DMs even allow that spell.
AH, Silvery Barbs the spell most often banned at tables everywhere. 1st level spell, that does the same things as casting 3 other spells, all for the low low cost of a reaction. At a minimum they should have made that spell 3rd level.
Sorry, you lost me as soon as you said Silvery Barbs.
I think that Silvery Barbs isn't the problem with the Strixhaven spells: Vortex Warp is. It lets you dominate the battlefield, controlling enemy movement and getting them exactly where you wanted. Also, hex is probably better as a fey touched spell. Once per long rest is decent, and it doesn't come into play that often late game. If you really feel you need it, then sure; take it first level. But as soon as you can change your spells, ditch it for a higher level spell.
AH, Silvery Barbs the spell most often banned at tables everywhere. 1st level spell, that does the same things as casting 3 other spells, all for the low low cost of a reaction. At a minimum they should have made that spell 3rd level.
Sorry, you lost me as soon as you said Silvery Barbs, very few DMs even allow that spell.
Silvery barbs isn't even a must take. If I have to pick between shield and Silvery Barbs, I am taking shield, every time.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
Any CR 0 creature you want, like a spider. Cast, kill, now you have hex going for X hours and you got the slot back after the short rest.
Right. I forgot there's people who actually play like that and DMs that actually allow it.
You mean as the rules are written and intended. How shocking people play their character like they aren't drooling morons.
I mean playing as if it were a video game. It's like (in 2014) the Abjurer casting a bunch of useless Alarm spells to recharge the Arcane Ward. Yeah, rules as written, still video-gamey. By all means, play however you want, I just personally don't like it. "Drooling morons"? Jeez, relax, I didn't mean to hurt your feeling.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
Any CR 0 creature you want, like a spider. Cast, kill, now you have hex going for X hours and you got the slot back after the short rest.
Right. I forgot there's people who actually play like that and DMs that actually allow it.
You mean as the rules are written and intended. How shocking people play their character like they aren't drooling morons.
I mean playing as if it were a video game. It's like (in 2014) the Abjurer casting a bunch of useless Alarm spells to recharge the Arcane Ward. Yeah, rules as written, still video-gamey. By all means, play however you want, I just personally don't like it. "Drooling morons"? Jeez, relax, I didn't mean to hurt your feeling.
you did mean it as a snipe at people who play differently than you. It was not a subtle sneering at others. And playing your character like a person is not like a video game. If I know my protective field is recharged by a ritual spell I can freely cast, in my down time I will be casting that ritual. why, as I do not like getting stabbed. If I know my spell lasts 8 hours, I can sustain it while taking a break and that break will get me the endurance back to cast the spell I'm holding, guess what i am doing before I take a break. That isn't video game logic, that is the logic anyone would use if they were actually playing their character expecting to go into danger. Sure while walking around town I wouldn't have hex rolling, but when I am traveling into danger, of course I am.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
Any CR 0 creature you want, like a spider. Cast, kill, now you have hex going for X hours and you got the slot back after the short rest.
Right. I forgot there's people who actually play like that and DMs that actually allow it.
You mean as the rules are written and intended. How shocking people play their character like they aren't drooling morons.
I mean playing as if it were a video game. It's like (in 2014) the Abjurer casting a bunch of useless Alarm spells to recharge the Arcane Ward. Yeah, rules as written, still video-gamey. By all means, play however you want, I just personally don't like it. "Drooling morons"? Jeez, relax, I didn't mean to hurt your feeling.
you did mean it as a snipe at people who play differently than you. It was not a subtle sneering at others. And playing your character like a person is not like a video game. If I know my protective field is recharged by a ritual spell I can freely cast, in my down time I will be casting that ritual. why, as I do not like getting stabbed. If I know my spell lasts 8 hours, I can sustain it while taking a break and that break will get me the endurance back to cast the spell I'm holding, guess what i am doing before I take a break. That isn't video game logic, that is the logic anyone would use if they were actually playing their character expecting to go into danger. Sure while walking around town I wouldn't have hex rolling, but when I am traveling into danger, of course I am.
I wasn't subtle about not liking this kind of play. But I meant it when I said I forgot. I have yet to play with someone who does things like these.
That said, I didn't mean the character didn't behave like a person. I meant that the world itself feels like a video game. Because characters are behaving as if they live in a world with video game rules, with balance patches, errata, updates in the rules, etc. And yeah, if I lived in such a world I'd also try to survive by exploiting the rules.
But that's not the fantasy we ever see in any kind of story, unless it's a video game (or something similar). You'd never read a fantasy book or watch a movie where one of the main characters walks around with a bag of rats or other animals, just so they can kill one of them to get a free spell slot. Or close their eyes when they attack someone just so they can trigger their Lucky feat (2014) and get a higher chance to crit. Or damage themselves on purpose to trigger their Misty Escape subclass feature. Those are all video game-like things to do. Reading or watching an actual story where characters do that would be ridiculous.
But this is perfectly normal in video games. If you play Ocarina of Time, walking backwards or jumping sideways lets you move faster than actually running normally. What you're saying is basically "If you lived in a world where walking backwards was faster than running normally, and you needed to go as fast as possible, wouldn't you walk backwards instead?" My answer would be "Yes, of course. But I don't want my TTRPG to take place in a world like that because it feels exactly like a video game and it really messes up my immersion."
^^ pretty much on board with Sookie. Optimization of your characters is fine. Anything that starts to look like cheesing the action economy (such as weapon switching exploits) I frown upon very hard. If it looks and feels like something people wouldn't do if this is real, imo it breaks immersion and needs to go.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
+1. When deciding between rules as written or rules as intended, I always go for the second when it make more sense. You can always find loopholes in RAW.
Weapon juggling was a problem in the 2014 PHB, most people did not like to have to think about it, so they made it so you can draw a weapon as part of the Attack action. The intent was to get rid of weapon juggling, not to create a new corner case where the wording allowed for more of it.
As a DM, I frown at players rule lawering corner case loopholes that are clearly unintended exploits that are made possible only because of poor wording.
AS for the OP question : I do not think you can switch Cure wounds for another spell. Warlock subclasses extra spells (like celestial spells) state that they are always prepared. Unlike 2014, they are not added to your spell list, and when you gain a level, you can only change spells on your spell list.
As far as hex, as my warlock's leveled I've used it less and less. I generally prefer to save my conc for other things, and frankly my spell slots too.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Yeah, I feel like Hex is fine at lower levels, but later there are just better things to concentrate on. Especially since all your spell slots are highest level.
I use to have Cure Wounds as a Celestial Warlock and Hex as my Fey Touched spell to top off my parties health before a short rest, but it seems a little pointless with my pact abilities. So i swapped out Hex for Silvery Barbs and then swapped out cure wounds for Hex so I can keep Hex. I know Silvery Barbs doesn’t improve with higher spell slots, but it is arguably the best first level spell and arguably one of the best spells in the game. So what do you all think? Do I go for something more traditional like Hex as my fey touched spell, or is there another more leveled up spell I could go with? Either way, do I keep hex as a normal spell or go with something else more traditional like armor of agathas or protection over evil and good?
Silvery Barbs is so good because it's a 1st level spell. It's a very powerful spell because the investment is very low. That's why it gets better and better as you level up. For a warlock it's still a good spell, but not nearly as good as for other classes. It's the same as Shield. Is it good? Very. Is it good for a warlock? Well...kind of? Not bad, but not nearly as good as it is for a wizard or the like.
That said, Fey Touched doesn't have too many powerful spells. Gift of Alacrity is actually really good. Bless is also pretty good. Hex isn't actually very good, especially if you can't upcast it (as in, the free Fey Touched use).
What do you mean with "more traditional"? Hex seems as traditional as it gets when it comes to warlocks. Definitely more than Protection From Evil and Good.
Ultimately, go for whatever you like better. The ones you said are fine. None of them would be a mistake to take.
I kind of like hex. The one free casting makes it worth it to me. Past 5th level I'm not going to use hex in fights that matter so I don't want to use a big slot on it. but random encounters or other fights that i don't want to waste many resources on it gives me a leg up. And its still a known spell so whenever you are going to take a short rest and have some pact slots left you can cast it.
Talking to you both actually reminded me of something: the Fey Touched spell only functions as a level 1 spell regardless of my level. Thus I would want something learned naturally that levels up with me well. Hex unfortunately does not scale well, so I’m thinking i reassign it as my Fey Touched spell and learn a more proper spell for a warlocks abilities instead.
A big thanks to each of you for your input! Everyone feel free to reply with what upgradable level 1 spell i should learn.
Dissonant Whispers is a good spell for a Warlock since it does upcast. Once you get fifth level spells, it hits for 7d6.
Who are you going to cast it on when you're going to take a short rest?
Any CR 0 creature you want, like a spider. Cast, kill, now you have hex going for X hours and you got the slot back after the short rest.
Right. I forgot there's people who actually play like that and DMs that actually allow it.
You mean as the rules are written and intended. How shocking people play their character like they aren't drooling morons.
Honestly I am kind of with Sookie. I frown very hard on things that feel and look like action economy exploits, and that tactic absolutely reeks of it. It's a valid tactic, but I'd not be pleased with a player who tried it.
That said, I tend to play a lot of warlocks and I tend to also not like to cast hex so much after the first few levels (I typically prefer to use conc on other things), so it's kind of six in one, half dozen in the other.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
AH, Silvery Barbs the spell most often banned at tables everywhere. 1st level spell, that does the same things as casting 3 other spells, all for the low low cost of a reaction. At a minimum they should have made that spell 3rd level.
Sorry, you lost me as soon as you said Silvery Barbs, very few DMs even allow that spell.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I think that Silvery Barbs isn't the problem with the Strixhaven spells: Vortex Warp is. It lets you dominate the battlefield, controlling enemy movement and getting them exactly where you wanted. Also, hex is probably better as a fey touched spell. Once per long rest is decent, and it doesn't come into play that often late game. If you really feel you need it, then sure; take it first level. But as soon as you can change your spells, ditch it for a higher level spell.
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Silvery barbs isn't even a must take. If I have to pick between shield and Silvery Barbs, I am taking shield, every time.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I mean playing as if it were a video game. It's like (in 2014) the Abjurer casting a bunch of useless Alarm spells to recharge the Arcane Ward. Yeah, rules as written, still video-gamey. By all means, play however you want, I just personally don't like it. "Drooling morons"? Jeez, relax, I didn't mean to hurt your feeling.
you did mean it as a snipe at people who play differently than you. It was not a subtle sneering at others. And playing your character like a person is not like a video game. If I know my protective field is recharged by a ritual spell I can freely cast, in my down time I will be casting that ritual. why, as I do not like getting stabbed. If I know my spell lasts 8 hours, I can sustain it while taking a break and that break will get me the endurance back to cast the spell I'm holding, guess what i am doing before I take a break. That isn't video game logic, that is the logic anyone would use if they were actually playing their character expecting to go into danger. Sure while walking around town I wouldn't have hex rolling, but when I am traveling into danger, of course I am.
I wasn't subtle about not liking this kind of play. But I meant it when I said I forgot. I have yet to play with someone who does things like these.
That said, I didn't mean the character didn't behave like a person. I meant that the world itself feels like a video game. Because characters are behaving as if they live in a world with video game rules, with balance patches, errata, updates in the rules, etc. And yeah, if I lived in such a world I'd also try to survive by exploiting the rules.
But that's not the fantasy we ever see in any kind of story, unless it's a video game (or something similar). You'd never read a fantasy book or watch a movie where one of the main characters walks around with a bag of rats or other animals, just so they can kill one of them to get a free spell slot. Or close their eyes when they attack someone just so they can trigger their Lucky feat (2014) and get a higher chance to crit. Or damage themselves on purpose to trigger their Misty Escape subclass feature. Those are all video game-like things to do. Reading or watching an actual story where characters do that would be ridiculous.
But this is perfectly normal in video games. If you play Ocarina of Time, walking backwards or jumping sideways lets you move faster than actually running normally. What you're saying is basically "If you lived in a world where walking backwards was faster than running normally, and you needed to go as fast as possible, wouldn't you walk backwards instead?" My answer would be "Yes, of course. But I don't want my TTRPG to take place in a world like that because it feels exactly like a video game and it really messes up my immersion."
^^ pretty much on board with Sookie. Optimization of your characters is fine. Anything that starts to look like cheesing the action economy (such as weapon switching exploits) I frown upon very hard. If it looks and feels like something people wouldn't do if this is real, imo it breaks immersion and needs to go.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
+1. When deciding between rules as written or rules as intended, I always go for the second when it make more sense.
You can always find loopholes in RAW.
Weapon juggling was a problem in the 2014 PHB, most people did not like to have to think about it, so they made it so you can draw a weapon as part of the Attack action. The intent was to get rid of weapon juggling, not to create a new corner case where the wording allowed for more of it.
As a DM, I frown at players rule lawering corner case loopholes that are clearly unintended exploits that are made possible only because of poor wording.
AS for the OP question : I do not think you can switch Cure wounds for another spell. Warlock subclasses extra spells (like celestial spells) state that they are always prepared. Unlike 2014, they are not added to your spell list, and when you gain a level, you can only change spells on your spell list.
As far as hex, as my warlock's leveled I've used it less and less. I generally prefer to save my conc for other things, and frankly my spell slots too.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, I feel like Hex is fine at lower levels, but later there are just better things to concentrate on. Especially since all your spell slots are highest level.