I enjoy playing warlock a lot and was looking at the new 2024 PHB warlock and trying to find a way to fit my favorite archfey caster lock into a party. I like to have a role that is slightly different from those of my party members and try not to step on their toes or too many redundant things with the party and one of the things I noticed that happens often when I am playing a Warlock is not many other people are playing any form of arcane caster and the least common thing that people will have is an intelligent character as most will dump intellect. In addition, I made note that most of the warlock's available skills are actually intelligent skills like arcana, history and investigation which pushes the idea that the warlock may substitute well as the high intellect character in a party that dumps intellect. The conventional wisdom that I have always thought and been told with warlocks is that we want high charisma for spell casting, high dex for AC and high con for health and survival, but upon working with the standard array to make this intelligent warlock I came to a bit of a realization. The lack of shield and only having access to light armor means even if we focus on dex and make it a 14 or 16 at start and never pump it afterwards, as is the conventional wisdon, the warlock still will not have a good AC. At 14 dex the best your AC ever gets is 14 without using magic armor, at 16 dex it is only 15. The fact that Dex isn't a save means the same for your dex save, no matter what a warlock does they are never going to have a good AC or a good dex save without multi-classing, so I thought what if I didn't try to be good at something the character would never be good at and instead try to play to the character's strength.
In doing so there are 2 ways I have come to and would like people's thoughts on which way they think is better. Both methods utilize the standard array of 15,14,13,12,10,8 instead of point buy and both methods utilize the Acolyte background from the 2024 PHB. The idea concept for this Warlock is a member of a cult that worships the lords and ladies of the summer court. In this case he will be human and pact of the tome is the first invocation. The cleric spells will be guidance, spare the dying and bless which I think fit both the theme and are generally good spells.
Version 1 the standard array is 8 strength, 10 dex, 13 con, 14 int, 12 wisdom, and 15 charisma, with a +2 int and +1 Charisma (Making stats, 8,10,13,16,12,16) with the plan to take resilient con at level 4 to make con a 14. The skills taken would be arcane, investigation (warlock), Religion and insight from acolyte, persuasion from human (unsure of what feat to take for human, thinking tough or skilled or magic initiate druid). The main disadvantage of this route is that spell saves and attack rolls will be slightly behind until level 12 so most of the game, the main advantages are that con saves will be better throughout most of the game and the intelligent skills will be at a decent level for the entire game.
Version 2 the standard array is 8 strength, 10 dex, 14, con, 13 int, 12 wisdom and 15 charisma with a +2 charisma and +1 int. (making stats, 8,10,14,14,12,17) with the plan to take fey touched at level 4. This would give more spell casting with fey touched, more uses of steps of the fey and misty escape and higher health at level 1 through 3, but lower survival and skill rolls for the rest of the game.
The main worry is less about the low dex causing low survival as stated previously I don't believe higher dex will add that much because the AC and dex saves will still be too low to make what I believe to be a meaningful contribution, but I also believe this set-up may require putting a lot into constitution.
Warlock spells Minor Illusion, Friends(cantrips), First level spells detect magic, Tasha's hideous laughter. Tome spells, Druidcraft, True Strike, Light, rituals Speak with animals, comprehend languages.
In general I find the thing I worry most about Warlock is it's survivability. With a lack of spell slots for a spell like shield, a lack of con or dex saves, and not much in terms of health I feel nearly half of all spells cast may end up needing to be defensive in nature.
So I am curious what other's thoughts on this are. Am I completely missing the mark with character concept? What origin feat do you think i should take as a human? Should I go for early resilient con? or more misty steps?
If you are open to a slight bit of multiclassing, I would recommend starting your warlock with a level of fighter. The warlock gets a whole lot from a single level of fighter at the start - CON save proficiency, medium armor, and shields. This really helps shore up their defenses, and saves you a feat to get the con save proficiency.
As far as stats go, it would depend for me on what feats you really care about. For this character, I might even consider just taking one feat to round out all of your stats to even numbers, then take the rest as simple +2 ASI's to get your multiple ability scores as high as possible.
If your DM is allowing them, you also might want to think about using a custom background. This would allow you to get the ability score increases you want at the start, whichever proficiencies you want most, and take a more useful Origin Feat like Skilled, Lucky, or Alert.
If you are open to a slight bit of multiclassing, I would recommend starting your warlock with a level of fighter. The warlock gets a whole lot from a single level of fighter at the start - CON save proficiency, medium armor, and shields. This really helps shore up their defenses, and saves you a feat to get the con save proficiency.
As far as stats go, it would depend for me on what feats you really care about. For this character, I might even consider just taking one feat to round out all of your stats to even numbers, then take the rest as simple +2 ASI's to get your multiple ability scores as high as possible.
If your DM is allowing them, you also might want to think about using a custom background. This would allow you to get the ability score increases you want at the start, whichever proficiencies you want most, and take a more useful Origin Feat like Skilled, Lucky, or Alert.
So to answer some of what is listed here. I don't want to do a fighter dip. I am specifically trying to avoid doing so. Second on custom backgrounds, this is why I am considering human and am currently torn between skilled and tough as feats. I want magic initiate cleric because I think bless is a really good spell and warlocks usually need a little more casting so having MI for that little extra is really important to me. If constitution ends up being integral I can just take the Noble background which gives skilled charisma and con as options. I don't think I really need custom background for this dilema.
Edit: To better answer why no fighter, if fighter this completely changes the character. First while we gain a con save we lose a wisdom and a charisma save. I like both of these saves being high because wis saves are the ones where you lose control of the character and charisma saves are the forced teleports or the things that prevent you from teleporting away from something both of which I don't want to happen as an archfey warlock. In addition, fighter level delays spell casting progression meaning I will not have 3rd level spells till 6 or get a 3rd spell slot until level 12. In addition, unless I am going blade lock, which was not the plan for this character, the weapon mastery and even the action surge from fighter go mostly wasted. This does solve the AC issue which means we no longer "dump" dex bringing it to 14 and instead now dump Wisdom making the standard array set up with the intent of intelligence still being a good stat into 10 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 13 (+1) int, 8 wis, 15 (+2) cha. This gives starting AC of 18 (+2 dex, +2 shield, 14 from scale mail) but with such a low strength and dex at level 1 the character would need to rely on a cleric cantrip for damage, which would be really low. This would solve the issue of survival, but I don't think it would fit the concept, the plan or be what I really am looking for in the long run.
My first 2024 character fit the mold of your 2nd option. We didn't use standard array so my stats were a bit more off balance with 8,10,13,15,10,15 put +1 int+2chr, Was tempted to go +1,+1,+1. I started as an acolyte, was human and took magic initiate druid for my extra feat. Sure tough/skilled would probably be smarter. But it gave me bless and healing word as extra spells and 4 extra cantrips, and I started with pact of the tome to double down on it more, starting with 8 cantrips felt pretty solid. I have barely played him, but I am having fun with it. I really wish they had let us have a int option warlock as I think it fits the class so much better, but I will just continue to make it my second best stat even if my survivability suffers a bit.
In the long run we will probably switch to custom backgrounds, but we generally prefer playing sort of as is for the first couple campaigns. Sometimes something seems terrible but in play actually makes the game better. But I am one of the weird people who think your flaws and limitations make your character more than their strengths, so I am cool with the set backgrounds.
My first 2024 character fit the mold of your 2nd option. We didn't use standard array so my stats were a bit more off balance with 8,10,13,15,10,15 put +1 int+2chr, Was tempted to go +1,+1,+1. I started as an acolyte, was human and took magic initiate druid for my extra feat. Sure tough/skilled would probably be smarter. But it gave me bless and healing word as extra spells and 4 extra cantrips, and I started with pact of the tome to double down on it more, starting with 8 cantrips felt pretty solid. I have barely played him, but I am having fun with it. I really wish they had let us have a int option warlock as I think it fits the class so much better, but I will just continue to make it my second best stat even if my survivability suffers a bit.
In the long run we will probably switch to custom backgrounds, but we generally prefer playing sort of as is for the first couple campaigns. Sometimes something seems terrible but in play actually makes the game better. But I am one of the weird people who think your flaws and limitations make your character more than their strengths, so I am cool with the set backgrounds.
I am glad you are having fun with this character. When I came up with it, it really looked like a lot of fun, but I thought I might be completely off the ball with this one so I am glad someone else was on the same wave length for this one and had a similar idea and that it worked. I had considered the druid MI as well, but I felt that was more cantrips than I needed. I am leaning tough right now and then at level 2 taking Lessons of the first one for skilled and Fiendish vigor to increase survival in the early portions of the game. I am also considering taking the ritual caster feat, but think that may be a little overkill with the amount of spells known the warlock gets past level 3. I feel level 5 is about when I will lean more into EB, AB, RB if I want to go that route as true strike + crossbow I feel is good enough until we get to that 5th level and would get those double rays.
My first 2024 character fit the mold of your 2nd option. We didn't use standard array so my stats were a bit more off balance with 8,10,13,15,10,15 put +1 int+2chr, Was tempted to go +1,+1,+1. I started as an acolyte, was human and took magic initiate druid for my extra feat. Sure tough/skilled would probably be smarter. But it gave me bless and healing word as extra spells and 4 extra cantrips, and I started with pact of the tome to double down on it more, starting with 8 cantrips felt pretty solid. I have barely played him, but I am having fun with it. I really wish they had let us have a int option warlock as I think it fits the class so much better, but I will just continue to make it my second best stat even if my survivability suffers a bit.
In the long run we will probably switch to custom backgrounds, but we generally prefer playing sort of as is for the first couple campaigns. Sometimes something seems terrible but in play actually makes the game better. But I am one of the weird people who think your flaws and limitations make your character more than their strengths, so I am cool with the set backgrounds.
I am glad you are having fun with this character. When I came up with it, it really looked like a lot of fun, but I thought I might be completely off the ball with this one so I am glad someone else was on the same wave length for this one and had a similar idea and that it worked. I had considered the druid MI as well, but I felt that was more cantrips than I needed. I am leaning tough right now and then at level 2 taking Lessons of the first one for skilled and Fiendish vigor to increase survival in the early portions of the game. I am also considering taking the ritual caster feat, but think that may be a little overkill with the amount of spells known the warlock gets past level 3. I feel level 5 is about when I will lean more into EB, AB, RB if I want to go that route as true strike + crossbow I feel is good enough until we get to that 5th level and would get those double rays.
I took pact of the chain(imp) at 2nd with agonizing blast but on mind sliver. As at 3rd I went GOO, at 5 im taking gaze of two minds and I may switch agonizing to EB at that point due to the 2nd beam. I'm going to focus more on subtle magics and debuffs.
My first 2024 character fit the mold of your 2nd option. We didn't use standard array so my stats were a bit more off balance with 8,10,13,15,10,15 put +1 int+2chr, Was tempted to go +1,+1,+1. I started as an acolyte, was human and took magic initiate druid for my extra feat. Sure tough/skilled would probably be smarter. But it gave me bless and healing word as extra spells and 4 extra cantrips, and I started with pact of the tome to double down on it more, starting with 8 cantrips felt pretty solid. I have barely played him, but I am having fun with it. I really wish they had let us have a int option warlock as I think it fits the class so much better, but I will just continue to make it my second best stat even if my survivability suffers a bit.
In the long run we will probably switch to custom backgrounds, but we generally prefer playing sort of as is for the first couple campaigns. Sometimes something seems terrible but in play actually makes the game better. But I am one of the weird people who think your flaws and limitations make your character more than their strengths, so I am cool with the set backgrounds.
I am glad you are having fun with this character. When I came up with it, it really looked like a lot of fun, but I thought I might be completely off the ball with this one so I am glad someone else was on the same wave length for this one and had a similar idea and that it worked. I had considered the druid MI as well, but I felt that was more cantrips than I needed. I am leaning tough right now and then at level 2 taking Lessons of the first one for skilled and Fiendish vigor to increase survival in the early portions of the game. I am also considering taking the ritual caster feat, but think that may be a little overkill with the amount of spells known the warlock gets past level 3. I feel level 5 is about when I will lean more into EB, AB, RB if I want to go that route as true strike + crossbow I feel is good enough until we get to that 5th level and would get those double rays.
I took pact of the chain(imp) at 2nd with agonizing blast but on mind sliver. As at 3rd I went GOO, at 5 im taking gaze of two minds and I may switch agonizing to EB at that point due to the 2nd beam. I'm going to focus more on subtle magics and debuffs.
I knew early on I was going to take vigor at level for more survival, but have been torn on that "3rd" invocation. Lessons of the first one can be used to grab MI druid, lucky, or skilled. Misty visions exists as a great option as does a pact of the chain familiar with me liking both sprite and the sphynx. The level 1 spell selection is rough for me because at this level your spell DC is only 13 and for control spells you really just have access to single target save or suck spells. For this reason both hex and witchbolt seem appealing to me early. What are your other thoughts?
I knew early on I was going to take vigor at level for more survival, but have been torn on that "3rd" invocation. Lessons of the first one can be used to grab MI druid, lucky, or skilled. Misty visions exists as a great option as does a pact of the chain familiar with me liking both sprite and the sphynx. The level 1 spell selection is rough for me because at this level your spell DC is only 13 and for control spells you really just have access to single target save or suck spells. For this reason both hex and witchbolt seem appealing to me early. What are your other thoughts?
I pretty much agree with that, while I took Tashas as it fit my theme it almost never landed until level 3 when I was targeting two people, when I went GOO I retrained it to hold person as I get it for free with GOO. At level 4 and 5 with the Dc boosts and 3rd target I expect it to start to really shine. But honestly I used true strike/crossbow more than anything at levels 1-2. I probably should have taken witchbolt, its a really good spell in 2024.
I knew early on I was going to take vigor at level for more survival, but have been torn on that "3rd" invocation. Lessons of the first one can be used to grab MI druid, lucky, or skilled. Misty visions exists as a great option as does a pact of the chain familiar with me liking both sprite and the sphynx. The level 1 spell selection is rough for me because at this level your spell DC is only 13 and for control spells you really just have access to single target save or suck spells. For this reason both hex and witchbolt seem appealing to me early. What are your other thoughts?
I pretty much agree with that, while I took Tashas as it fit my theme it almost never landed until level 3 when I was targeting two people, when I went GOO I retrained it to hold person as I get it for free with GOO. At level 4 and 5 with the Dc boosts and 3rd target I expect it to start to really shine. But honestly I used true strike/crossbow more than anything at levels 1-2. I probably should have taken witchbolt, its a really good spell in 2024.
For a more subtle one early I think Bane might be the other way I want to go. The ability to target multiple opponents I feel is key to making early spells good and I think it can combo well with other casters in your party as well by landing that -1d4 to saves.
I typically like to dump my wis over int on my warlocks with the logic "making a pact with a powerful entity of this nature" is inherently unwise. As you point out, int is common to dump as well, so having some points and skill training there is helpful. That said, my next warlock will probably be a ranger/warlock MC, so dumping int will be more or less mandatory
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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I enjoy playing warlock a lot and was looking at the new 2024 PHB warlock and trying to find a way to fit my favorite archfey caster lock into a party. I like to have a role that is slightly different from those of my party members and try not to step on their toes or too many redundant things with the party and one of the things I noticed that happens often when I am playing a Warlock is not many other people are playing any form of arcane caster and the least common thing that people will have is an intelligent character as most will dump intellect. In addition, I made note that most of the warlock's available skills are actually intelligent skills like arcana, history and investigation which pushes the idea that the warlock may substitute well as the high intellect character in a party that dumps intellect. The conventional wisdom that I have always thought and been told with warlocks is that we want high charisma for spell casting, high dex for AC and high con for health and survival, but upon working with the standard array to make this intelligent warlock I came to a bit of a realization. The lack of shield and only having access to light armor means even if we focus on dex and make it a 14 or 16 at start and never pump it afterwards, as is the conventional wisdon, the warlock still will not have a good AC. At 14 dex the best your AC ever gets is 14 without using magic armor, at 16 dex it is only 15. The fact that Dex isn't a save means the same for your dex save, no matter what a warlock does they are never going to have a good AC or a good dex save without multi-classing, so I thought what if I didn't try to be good at something the character would never be good at and instead try to play to the character's strength.
In doing so there are 2 ways I have come to and would like people's thoughts on which way they think is better. Both methods utilize the standard array of 15,14,13,12,10,8 instead of point buy and both methods utilize the Acolyte background from the 2024 PHB. The idea concept for this Warlock is a member of a cult that worships the lords and ladies of the summer court. In this case he will be human and pact of the tome is the first invocation. The cleric spells will be guidance, spare the dying and bless which I think fit both the theme and are generally good spells.
Version 1 the standard array is 8 strength, 10 dex, 13 con, 14 int, 12 wisdom, and 15 charisma, with a +2 int and +1 Charisma (Making stats, 8,10,13,16,12,16) with the plan to take resilient con at level 4 to make con a 14. The skills taken would be arcane, investigation (warlock), Religion and insight from acolyte, persuasion from human (unsure of what feat to take for human, thinking tough or skilled or magic initiate druid). The main disadvantage of this route is that spell saves and attack rolls will be slightly behind until level 12 so most of the game, the main advantages are that con saves will be better throughout most of the game and the intelligent skills will be at a decent level for the entire game.
Version 2 the standard array is 8 strength, 10 dex, 14, con, 13 int, 12 wisdom and 15 charisma with a +2 charisma and +1 int. (making stats, 8,10,14,14,12,17) with the plan to take fey touched at level 4. This would give more spell casting with fey touched, more uses of steps of the fey and misty escape and higher health at level 1 through 3, but lower survival and skill rolls for the rest of the game.
The main worry is less about the low dex causing low survival as stated previously I don't believe higher dex will add that much because the AC and dex saves will still be too low to make what I believe to be a meaningful contribution, but I also believe this set-up may require putting a lot into constitution.
Warlock spells
Minor Illusion, Friends(cantrips), First level spells detect magic, Tasha's hideous laughter.
Tome spells, Druidcraft, True Strike, Light, rituals Speak with animals, comprehend languages.
In general I find the thing I worry most about Warlock is it's survivability. With a lack of spell slots for a spell like shield, a lack of con or dex saves, and not much in terms of health I feel nearly half of all spells cast may end up needing to be defensive in nature.
So I am curious what other's thoughts on this are. Am I completely missing the mark with character concept? What origin feat do you think i should take as a human? Should I go for early resilient con? or more misty steps?
If you are open to a slight bit of multiclassing, I would recommend starting your warlock with a level of fighter. The warlock gets a whole lot from a single level of fighter at the start - CON save proficiency, medium armor, and shields. This really helps shore up their defenses, and saves you a feat to get the con save proficiency.
As far as stats go, it would depend for me on what feats you really care about. For this character, I might even consider just taking one feat to round out all of your stats to even numbers, then take the rest as simple +2 ASI's to get your multiple ability scores as high as possible.
If your DM is allowing them, you also might want to think about using a custom background. This would allow you to get the ability score increases you want at the start, whichever proficiencies you want most, and take a more useful Origin Feat like Skilled, Lucky, or Alert.
So to answer some of what is listed here. I don't want to do a fighter dip. I am specifically trying to avoid doing so. Second on custom backgrounds, this is why I am considering human and am currently torn between skilled and tough as feats. I want magic initiate cleric because I think bless is a really good spell and warlocks usually need a little more casting so having MI for that little extra is really important to me. If constitution ends up being integral I can just take the Noble background which gives skilled charisma and con as options. I don't think I really need custom background for this dilema.
Edit: To better answer why no fighter, if fighter this completely changes the character. First while we gain a con save we lose a wisdom and a charisma save. I like both of these saves being high because wis saves are the ones where you lose control of the character and charisma saves are the forced teleports or the things that prevent you from teleporting away from something both of which I don't want to happen as an archfey warlock. In addition, fighter level delays spell casting progression meaning I will not have 3rd level spells till 6 or get a 3rd spell slot until level 12. In addition, unless I am going blade lock, which was not the plan for this character, the weapon mastery and even the action surge from fighter go mostly wasted. This does solve the AC issue which means we no longer "dump" dex bringing it to 14 and instead now dump Wisdom making the standard array set up with the intent of intelligence still being a good stat into 10 str, 14 dex, 12 con, 13 (+1) int, 8 wis, 15 (+2) cha. This gives starting AC of 18 (+2 dex, +2 shield, 14 from scale mail) but with such a low strength and dex at level 1 the character would need to rely on a cleric cantrip for damage, which would be really low. This would solve the issue of survival, but I don't think it would fit the concept, the plan or be what I really am looking for in the long run.
My first 2024 character fit the mold of your 2nd option. We didn't use standard array so my stats were a bit more off balance with 8,10,13,15,10,15 put +1 int+2chr, Was tempted to go +1,+1,+1. I started as an acolyte, was human and took magic initiate druid for my extra feat. Sure tough/skilled would probably be smarter. But it gave me bless and healing word as extra spells and 4 extra cantrips, and I started with pact of the tome to double down on it more, starting with 8 cantrips felt pretty solid. I have barely played him, but I am having fun with it. I really wish they had let us have a int option warlock as I think it fits the class so much better, but I will just continue to make it my second best stat even if my survivability suffers a bit.
In the long run we will probably switch to custom backgrounds, but we generally prefer playing sort of as is for the first couple campaigns. Sometimes something seems terrible but in play actually makes the game better. But I am one of the weird people who think your flaws and limitations make your character more than their strengths, so I am cool with the set backgrounds.
I am glad you are having fun with this character. When I came up with it, it really looked like a lot of fun, but I thought I might be completely off the ball with this one so I am glad someone else was on the same wave length for this one and had a similar idea and that it worked. I had considered the druid MI as well, but I felt that was more cantrips than I needed. I am leaning tough right now and then at level 2 taking Lessons of the first one for skilled and Fiendish vigor to increase survival in the early portions of the game. I am also considering taking the ritual caster feat, but think that may be a little overkill with the amount of spells known the warlock gets past level 3. I feel level 5 is about when I will lean more into EB, AB, RB if I want to go that route as true strike + crossbow I feel is good enough until we get to that 5th level and would get those double rays.
I took pact of the chain(imp) at 2nd with agonizing blast but on mind sliver. As at 3rd I went GOO, at 5 im taking gaze of two minds and I may switch agonizing to EB at that point due to the 2nd beam. I'm going to focus more on subtle magics and debuffs.
I knew early on I was going to take vigor at level for more survival, but have been torn on that "3rd" invocation. Lessons of the first one can be used to grab MI druid, lucky, or skilled. Misty visions exists as a great option as does a pact of the chain familiar with me liking both sprite and the sphynx. The level 1 spell selection is rough for me because at this level your spell DC is only 13 and for control spells you really just have access to single target save or suck spells. For this reason both hex and witchbolt seem appealing to me early. What are your other thoughts?
I pretty much agree with that, while I took Tashas as it fit my theme it almost never landed until level 3 when I was targeting two people, when I went GOO I retrained it to hold person as I get it for free with GOO. At level 4 and 5 with the Dc boosts and 3rd target I expect it to start to really shine. But honestly I used true strike/crossbow more than anything at levels 1-2. I probably should have taken witchbolt, its a really good spell in 2024.
For a more subtle one early I think Bane might be the other way I want to go. The ability to target multiple opponents I feel is key to making early spells good and I think it can combo well with other casters in your party as well by landing that -1d4 to saves.
I typically like to dump my wis over int on my warlocks with the logic "making a pact with a powerful entity of this nature" is inherently unwise. As you point out, int is common to dump as well, so having some points and skill training there is helpful. That said, my next warlock will probably be a ranger/warlock MC, so dumping int will be more or less mandatory
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha