All sub classes will eventually make it in I'm sure, but for the 2024 PH they stuck to 4 per class. Hopefully they wont stretch out old content over too many source books, just do 1 legacy source book and get the game up to speed to where it was.
JMO besides the new Illusionist subclass, I would've preferred to see completely new Wizard subclasses than new versions of the 3 existing subclasses (abjurer, diviner, evoker).
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Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Honestly I wish they would have left off all of the 'specialist' wizards and gone with stuff like bladesinger, war wizard, etc.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
This is the Player's Handbook. This is supposed to be the first book that beginners will get, where all the base stuff is. They had to include the iconic stuff. It would have been really weird to leave out specialist wizards and instead have stuff like War Magic, Order of Scribes, etc.; or completely new subclasses. Of course I was also more interested to see the new versions of Bladesinging and the like, or new stuff in general, but it really didn't make sense for the PHB.
As for the Necromancer, they'll definitely include it. All 8 specialist wizards will be printed in new books at some point. I wouldn't be so sure that ALL older subclasses will be reprinted, but specialist wizards definitely will.
I disagree. Back in 2e, the default mage was not a specialist. I think various flavors of generalists make far more sense, then specialists for follow on content. Various flavors of generalists would allow builds to feel more unique. These all feel very much the same in design and playstyle.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I disagree. Back in 2e, the default mage was not a specialist. I think various flavors of generalists make far more sense, then specialists for follow on content. Various flavors of generalists would allow builds to feel more unique. These all feel very much the same in design and playstyle.
This is not 2e, though. And it's also not 6e. This is still 5, just an update. Aside from clerics and wizards, every single subclass in the 2014 PHB is also in the 2024 one. They wanted 4 subclasses for each class, so clerics and wizards have less and the others have more. But this is just an update. That's why every single spell in the 2014 PHB is also in the 2024 one, and we only have like...5 new spells?
I also think it would be more interesting to see something new, but that was never going to happen in this book.
*shrug* well, then they shouldn't have cut all of those other specialists then.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
They could have easily made a a drop down option for a school wizard and place all of them there together like the cleric Divine order and standardize some of the subclasses features into the main class.
A wizard is someone who do research and not every research result is the same, so why the product of it is not shown aside from just spells?
Give me basic features that show that research like a drop down feat that let u choose between boosting save DC or spell attacks by +1 or a resistance to a specific element or effect, reduce casting time of Rituals or swapping a spell action into Bonus action or letting u cast hold two concentrations with disadvantage. All this is strong but i would not call it game braking ( double concentration is strong though XD). The effects of Spell Sniper, Elemental Adept should be somewhat mixed in class feature for the Wizards.
They could have easily made a a drop down option for a school wizard and place all of them there together like the cleric Divine order and standardize some of the subclasses features into the main class.
A wizard is someone who do research and not every research result is the same, so why the product of it is not shown aside from just spells?
Give me basic features that show that research like a drop down feat that let u choose between boosting save DC or spell attacks by +1 or a resistance to a specific element or effect, reduce casting time of Rituals or swapping a spell action into Bonus action or letting u cast hold two concentrations with disadvantage. All this is strong but i would not call it game braking ( double concentration is strong though XD). The effects of Spell Sniper, Elemental Adept should be somewhat mixed in class feature for the Wizards.
The problem with that is that this is what makes sorcerers unique. +1 on spell save DC, advantage on spell attacks, casting action spells as bonus actions, etc. I wouldn't mess with that. Also, wizards are already broken as they are (they don't need double concentration, ever).
I could see specialist wizards being presented like that, but for the same reason I said before, that was never going to happen in this book. It would have to be 6e or something.
I just find the so Feature lacking and boring. Other Full Spell casters got a lot of small features to make them interesting.
Yeah, I agree. Wizards don't really get many interesting features. Except maybe ritual casting from the spell book. Instead they get a massive spell list, a lot of spells known, a lot of exclusive spells. But yeah, I also don't find it interesting. I just don't think they need a boost without getting a nerf too.
To get back to the OP, they have announced an FR book next year. They have said it will have player options. They have also said there will be information about factions, including The Red Wizards of Thay. Red wizards are known to be necromancers. So I’m speculating, but that seems like it might be a good fit for the subclass.
I just find the so Feature lacking and boring. Other Full Spell casters got a lot of small features to make them interesting.
Yeah, I agree. Wizards don't really get many interesting features. Except maybe ritual casting from the spell book. Instead they get a massive spell list, a lot of spells known, a lot of exclusive spells. But yeah, I also don't find it interesting. I just don't think they need a boost without getting a nerf too.
honestly, the "big book" is more on paper than in practice. Unless your dm is intentionally giving the wizard free spells, sorcerers will have similar numbers of spells as a wizard until 6-8 or higher. The main difference is wizards having a few more lvl 1 spells (but not 2nd -4th lvl). After lvl 8 or so most games stop anyways, so wizards don't actually have any advantage over sorcerers in spells available. However sorcerers do because they can cast every spell they know - thus sorcerers actually have MORE real utility than the wizard does.
Otherwise wizards will need to buy spells in game, so now wizards must spend money/loot to use their class ability (unlimited spells), which no one else must do, also depending on the dm allowing the wizard to do so (which often won't happen). Basically in every game I've played in, wizards don't really benefit from the unlimited spells - because in practice it doesn't really happen.
I just find the so Feature lacking and boring. Other Full Spell casters got a lot of small features to make them interesting.
Yeah, I agree. Wizards don't really get many interesting features. Except maybe ritual casting from the spell book. Instead they get a massive spell list, a lot of spells known, a lot of exclusive spells. But yeah, I also don't find it interesting. I just don't think they need a boost without getting a nerf too.
honestly, the "big book" is more on paper than in practice. Unless your dm is intentionally giving the wizard free spells, sorcerers will have similar numbers of spells as a wizard until 6-8 or higher. The main difference is wizards having a few more lvl 1 spells. After that point most games stop anyways, so wizards don't actually have any advantage over sorcerers in spells available. However sorcerers do because they can cast every spell they know - thus sorcerers actually have MORE real utility than the wizard does.
Otherwise wizards will need to buy spells in game, so now wizards must spend money/loot to use their class ability (unlimited spells), which no one else must do. Basically in every game I've played in, wizards don't really benefit from the unlimited spells - because in practice it doesn't really happen.
Indeed aside from the big list choice there is not much to the base class
Well on 2e the default mage was not a specialist but he could choose to be a specialist right there on the next page.
With all schools listed there with their requirements and all. The thing with Wizards as with Priests is the matter of choice. If you have only 4 choices you take from their flavour. It also creates complications to current campaigns that want to shift to 2024 rules and they can't, I for example have a Transmuter in my group and cannot tell them to change because of the Transmuter not being an option, and to make matters worse we play Dragonlance and him being a Red robe the only other option really is illusion (which he doesn't like). Same for Priests not all gods have a portfolio that covers these domains they put there. And before you say i sound like an old timer, I am. I don't think a priest of Chemosh or Myrkur should have Love domain just because he can. Domains as in all things RP should be at least remotely relevant to a god's portfolio or at least make common sense.
They should have included more options for these two classes specifically. The others would understand :D
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Rolling the dice and telling the tales since 1992!
Do we know if they plan to add it?
I think there was an off-hand comment on it in a video, but I don’t think there’s been an official announcement.
All sub classes will eventually make it in I'm sure, but for the 2024 PH they stuck to 4 per class. Hopefully they wont stretch out old content over too many source books, just do 1 legacy source book and get the game up to speed to where it was.
JMO besides the new Illusionist subclass, I would've preferred to see completely new Wizard subclasses than new versions of the 3 existing subclasses (abjurer, diviner, evoker).
Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Honestly I wish they would have left off all of the 'specialist' wizards and gone with stuff like bladesinger, war wizard, etc.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
This is the Player's Handbook. This is supposed to be the first book that beginners will get, where all the base stuff is. They had to include the iconic stuff. It would have been really weird to leave out specialist wizards and instead have stuff like War Magic, Order of Scribes, etc.; or completely new subclasses. Of course I was also more interested to see the new versions of Bladesinging and the like, or new stuff in general, but it really didn't make sense for the PHB.
As for the Necromancer, they'll definitely include it. All 8 specialist wizards will be printed in new books at some point. I wouldn't be so sure that ALL older subclasses will be reprinted, but specialist wizards definitely will.
I disagree. Back in 2e, the default mage was not a specialist. I think various flavors of generalists make far more sense, then specialists for follow on content. Various flavors of generalists would allow builds to feel more unique. These all feel very much the same in design and playstyle.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
This is not 2e, though. And it's also not 6e. This is still 5, just an update. Aside from clerics and wizards, every single subclass in the 2014 PHB is also in the 2024 one. They wanted 4 subclasses for each class, so clerics and wizards have less and the others have more. But this is just an update. That's why every single spell in the 2014 PHB is also in the 2024 one, and we only have like...5 new spells?
I also think it would be more interesting to see something new, but that was never going to happen in this book.
*shrug* well, then they shouldn't have cut all of those other specialists then.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I agree, but they wanted to make 4 subclasses for each class.
They could have easily made a a drop down option for a school wizard and place all of them there together like the cleric Divine order and standardize some of the subclasses features into the main class.
A wizard is someone who do research and not every research result is the same, so why the product of it is not shown aside from just spells?
Give me basic features that show that research like a drop down feat that let u choose between boosting save DC or spell attacks by +1 or a resistance to a specific element or effect, reduce casting time of Rituals or swapping a spell action into Bonus action or letting u cast hold two concentrations with disadvantage. All this is strong but i would not call it game braking ( double concentration is strong though XD). The effects of Spell Sniper, Elemental Adept should be somewhat mixed in class feature for the Wizards.
The problem with that is that this is what makes sorcerers unique. +1 on spell save DC, advantage on spell attacks, casting action spells as bonus actions, etc. I wouldn't mess with that. Also, wizards are already broken as they are (they don't need double concentration, ever).
I could see specialist wizards being presented like that, but for the same reason I said before, that was never going to happen in this book. It would have to be 6e or something.
I just find the so Feature lacking and boring. Other Full Spell casters got a lot of small features to make them interesting.
Yeah, I agree. Wizards don't really get many interesting features. Except maybe ritual casting from the spell book. Instead they get a massive spell list, a lot of spells known, a lot of exclusive spells. But yeah, I also don't find it interesting. I just don't think they need a boost without getting a nerf too.
To get back to the OP, they have announced an FR book next year. They have said it will have player options. They have also said there will be information about factions, including The Red Wizards of Thay. Red wizards are known to be necromancers. So I’m speculating, but that seems like it might be a good fit for the subclass.
honestly, the "big book" is more on paper than in practice. Unless your dm is intentionally giving the wizard free spells, sorcerers will have similar numbers of spells as a wizard until 6-8 or higher. The main difference is wizards having a few more lvl 1 spells (but not 2nd -4th lvl). After lvl 8 or so most games stop anyways, so wizards don't actually have any advantage over sorcerers in spells available. However sorcerers do because they can cast every spell they know - thus sorcerers actually have MORE real utility than the wizard does.
Otherwise wizards will need to buy spells in game, so now wizards must spend money/loot to use their class ability (unlimited spells), which no one else must do, also depending on the dm allowing the wizard to do so (which often won't happen). Basically in every game I've played in, wizards don't really benefit from the unlimited spells - because in practice it doesn't really happen.
Indeed aside from the big list choice there is not much to the base class
So if someone wanted to create a Necro wizard, how would it go about it now with just the new handbook?
Well on 2e the default mage was not a specialist but he could choose to be a specialist right there on the next page.
With all schools listed there with their requirements and all. The thing with Wizards as with Priests is the matter of choice. If you have only 4 choices you take from their flavour. It also creates complications to current campaigns that want to shift to 2024 rules and they can't, I for example have a Transmuter in my group and cannot tell them to change because of the Transmuter not being an option, and to make matters worse we play Dragonlance and him being a Red robe the only other option really is illusion (which he doesn't like). Same for Priests not all gods have a portfolio that covers these domains they put there. And before you say i sound like an old timer, I am. I don't think a priest of Chemosh or Myrkur should have Love domain just because he can. Domains as in all things RP should be at least remotely relevant to a god's portfolio or at least make common sense.
They should have included more options for these two classes specifically. The others would understand :D
Rolling the dice and telling the tales since 1992!
[roll]1d20[/roll]
Apparently there are no Necromancers, it was all lies lies lies! Care for an illusionary cookie instead? :P
Rolling the dice and telling the tales since 1992!
[roll]1d20[/roll]