I am amazed with what roll20 have done to implement many of the things you are trying to do here, and with that in mind, I don't understand why you haven't look at their digital business model being aligned with your own. At least in terms of the outcomes of this beta project.
The ability to merge current roll20 system (virtual tabletop, chat, searchable compendium and spells, reactive character sheets etc) with your own the dm archive, purchase of new adventure modules, character generation and potentially much needed new options that no one offers - cloud storage, incorporate character building based on the purchase of new rule modules, using the twitch login to bring more streaming to the table, sharing custom adventures and mods to be voted on by community.
Implementating this would take serious capital, but surely from a business model you could:
Have roll20 make a dedicated WotC content platform - that still maintains the availability of their older system.
They provide maintenance and support paid by WotC based on sales and active users (essentially being a commission for the increased use if service, with a minimum fee).
Content owned and provided by WotC, collaboratively implemented with roll20.
Modules for adventures, rules, spells, artwork and monsters are bought individually (not requiring cloud storage as already hosted on server).
A similar games for gold system could be setup - where subscriptions could be linked to serial adventures, and/or module discounts or free monthly content.
Custom cloud storage could be a simple google drive api implementation - supported by Google.
Etc.
You really need to work on your service as a digital ecosystem, and I'm struggling to see how this current project is going to even compete with the growing demand for streaming and virtual tabletop needs of your customers.
I don't think that the first goal of D&D Beyond is to compete with Roll 20, Fantasy ground and the like. The first goal I believe is too reach as many pen-and-paper gamer as possible. This forum alone is a godsend. Discussions on rules and classes help gamers in an unbelivable way.
So my thinking is that for the time being DDB will be a digital support for tabletop. Maybe in a future it will be a more complex app.
I agree with the above statement that I'm not looking for a virtual platform to play d&d. I love being in the same room when I play. However that being said it would be nice to be able to connect together inside an app. Where we have all the resources available at our touch for quick reference and give the dm the ability to private message the players in the party for information only their character would know. Could help limit Meta gaming. Doesn't need to be fancy just a simple party creation to send invite to a room for private messaging and rolls.
Roll20 already has a license with WotC to provide official D&D content on their platform, including adventures/modules. Integration with characters created at D&D Beyond could be a nifty feature, but I don't see that being something that's in the works since roll20 already has its own D&D character sheet.
I have done all my gaming with friends over Roll20 for the past four years since we live across the country. I don't have local friends that play regularly. It depends on the setup of the group if they want to play virtual or get to do it in person around the table. I actually like both since there is still voice coms when we use Roll20.
I will say that I do not think virtual anything is essential. What i am hoping this program does is make it easier for DMs and players to look up information when questions come up on the fly about things. I know as a DM it would be way easier to have my list of mobs they will run into and then be able to pull the stats up on the fly instead of needing a bunch of cards or sheets for them. I know I had a binder of stuff, but it would be cool if the homebrew lets you put in specific named beings as well as your own new kind of mob to run into. Then you can search and it pops right up for you. It would be a space and organization saver in my opinion and then whether I wind up on Roll20 or at a table, the app can help out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
To be clear though, apart from the forum and character builder, how does dnd beyond offer anything already implemented in roll20.
The srd rules, character sheets, spells, monsters, equipment are all already searchable content there.
I don't understand how dnd beyond is benefiting us or adding anything new.
Not everyone games on roll20. D&D Beyond caters to people who use any platform whether physical or virtual.
Roll20's searchable compendium only contains SRD content along with a very small amount of extra supplements for purchase. D&D Beyond will eventually contain all official content outside of the SRD, more than the roll20 compendium currently offers.
Offline access to content.
Those are three things that D&D Beyond offers that roll20 does not. D&D Beyond is not positioned as a competitor to roll20, it is not a Virtual Tabletop, and nor will it be. VTTs take a lot of manpower and funding to develop, and the space is already pretty crowded. I don't think D&D Beyond has anything to gain by creating a VTT component, only a lot of money and time that could be spent on making a far better experience elsewhere.
They've spoken to Smiteworks who make Fantasy Grounds, apparently, about integrating some aspects. As someone who really hates both Smiteworks and Fantasy Grounds, I hope they do the same with Roll 20 and, quite frankly, I would be willing to bet that they'd have a lot easier a time of it and work better with the Roll 20 team than they could with Smiteworks. Roll 20 is both a better product and better people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
To be clear though, apart from the forum and character builder, how does dnd beyond offer anything already implemented in roll20.
The srd rules, character sheets, spells, monsters, equipment are all already searchable content there.
I don't understand how dnd beyond is benefiting us or adding anything new.
Not everyone games on roll20. D&D Beyond caters to people who use any platform whether physical or virtual.
Roll20's searchable compendium only contains SRD content along with a very small amount of extra supplements for purchase. D&D Beyond will eventually contain all official content outside of the SRD, more than the roll20 compendium currently offers.
Offline access to content.
Those are three things that D&D Beyond offers that roll20 does not. D&D Beyond is not positioned as a competitor to roll20, it is not a Virtual Tabletop, and nor will it be. VTTs take a lot of manpower and funding to develop, and the space is already pretty crowded. I don't think D&D Beyond has anything to gain by creating a VTT component, only a lot of money and time that could be spent on making a far better experience elsewhere.
Fair call.
It just feels a bit boring to get a "rules wiki" that doesn't do anything to support easier use of the content or any rules data management to support dms or players.
I don't use roll20 to vt remotely, but damn is it useful for DM - eg. to show artwork, create a soundtrack for 'scenes', manage combat and rule calculations, easily save where you leave off to pick up adventure again when you meet again, track npcs, as well as help with streaming (which is a huge growing trend in tabletop gaming). Most of the time I hardly even show a screen to my PCs.
I want a system, not just a searchable wiki. I want tools to really help time poor dms (which desperately need more support), I want something that can really help bring the power of tech to helping me manage my games.
Eg. The dungeon master archives wotc uses to sell adventure content and artwork, needs a desperate revitalisation to integrate into d&d beyond - but a game management system is what will keep me coming back into their digital ecosystem.
...but the future holds encounter and monster builders, combat/ initiative tracker, integrations with other licensed partners, all kinds of cool streaming stuff and the list goes on.
Virtual Table Top gaming has both grown and shrunk simultaneously. The amount of people using it and functionality available has grown in these tools, but the hobby itself has been injured by the availability of "quick content". Even at pen and paper sessions there is a big reliance on online content and apps, hell sometimes I run into people who don't even want to roll real dice at a live session anymore using apps for that as well.
To me a lot has been lost in the digital world and while I understand everyone's desire for flexibility of connecting with people thanks to these tools, the truth is that in the last few years the content just hasn't been very good or creative. Every new book that comes out every so often out of this franchise can be best described as "common". There is so little effort and creativity put into it, replaced by "standardized content". Everything is very cookie-cutter, created as such to fit neatly into a spreadsheet, but lacking any real creative fire.
The only exception and perhaps the greatest triumph has been Volo's Guide To Monsters.. this, this is exactly what we need more of. The creativity and attention to detail, the focus on story, the feel of a rich, content filled book is what role-playing is about for me and its exactly this sort of content that can never reach the digital world. It requires you to sit down, read and imagine for many hours to fully absorb and implement into a game.
Not to poop on anyone parade, I totally understand why the digital game environment is growing in popularity but I don't believe we are better for it. It can provide "data", but that's not what this game is supposed to be about. I noted for example that all of the rich, descriptive text for monsters and spells for example are not included in D&D Beyond, which I find odd as its far more important to know who orcs are and how they live, then it is to know what their strength or hit points are. Just an example of where digital - physical are diverging.
D&D Beyond is still in its womb. When the official "final" version will be released all the material about monsters and whatnot will be included. I agree with you when you say that the real game is at the table. Pen paper and dice in your hand. But an application such as this and an offical forum are best thing to search information (official or homebrew) and to connect people.
We are still in Phase 1. We are testing the functionality of the foundation to make sure it works. Then they will add all the character generation stuff in phase 2, hence the mega thread of what you want to see there. It isn't until Phase 3 that we get all the cool DM management and homebrew stuff. I really like how they are making this a modular build up of things to test because if they find something in the foundation that blows up, the rest can't be added yet. We need to make sure we understand what we are testing in order to give proper feedback and so far it is the foundation of how information is added (on their end) and looked up and linked.
And as I said before I am looking forward to seeing how the app works from table top to virtual settings in helping the creation and management of HOURS of gaming. I'm running out of things to comment on with phase 1, but I keep using it to see if anything else comes to mind to help the foundation. Lots of great input all over these forums so far that can help the devs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
They've spoken to Smiteworks who make Fantasy Grounds, apparently, about integrating some aspects. As someone who really hates both Smiteworks and Fantasy Grounds, I hope they do the same with Roll 20 and, quite frankly, I would be willing to bet that they'd have a lot easier a time of it and work better with the Roll 20 team than they could with Smiteworks. Roll 20 is both a better product and better people.
I would be interested in knowing why you "hate" Smiteworks and Fantasy Grounds.
I would be interested in knowing why you "hate" Smiteworks and Fantasy Grounds.
It's not that interesting a story. I own a legal copy of FG, things happened with hard disks and emails and when I tried to regain access, the "support" staff were incredibly unhelpful and unsympathetic and basically told me I'd have to buy another copy. So I'll never use their products again and hope the company fails.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Agreed. Creating a VTT would be detrimental. However a searchable database of the whole of 5e that cab be used by any player at any time would be wonderful. I don't have the money for all the books I need at the moment because that adds up fast. I play using a series of digital resources including 3-4 apps and utilizing at least 4 different online resources. I constantly say to myself "I wish someone could make a comprehensive database." Half the people I play with the same thing. DDB is exactly what we have been asking for.
Without a VTT, I see no value in D&D Beyond. My group uses Roll20 both at table games (we display the map on a big screen TV) and for remote playing. With a VTT, I'd happily buy the core books and get the DM's subscription. Without it, I'll stick with Roll20 because DDB doesn't really add anything for me.
I am amazed with what roll20 have done to implement many of the things you are trying to do here, and with that in mind, I don't understand why you haven't look at their digital business model being aligned with your own. At least in terms of the outcomes of this beta project.
The ability to merge current roll20 system (virtual tabletop, chat, searchable compendium and spells, reactive character sheets etc) with your own the dm archive, purchase of new adventure modules, character generation and potentially much needed new options that no one offers - cloud storage, incorporate character building based on the purchase of new rule modules, using the twitch login to bring more streaming to the table, sharing custom adventures and mods to be voted on by community.
Implementating this would take serious capital, but surely from a business model you could:
Have roll20 make a dedicated WotC content platform - that still maintains the availability of their older system.
They provide maintenance and support paid by WotC based on sales and active users (essentially being a commission for the increased use if service, with a minimum fee).
Content owned and provided by WotC, collaboratively implemented with roll20.
Modules for adventures, rules, spells, artwork and monsters are bought individually (not requiring cloud storage as already hosted on server).
A similar games for gold system could be setup - where subscriptions could be linked to serial adventures, and/or module discounts or free monthly content.
Custom cloud storage could be a simple google drive api implementation - supported by Google.
Etc.
You really need to work on your service as a digital ecosystem, and I'm struggling to see how this current project is going to even compete with the growing demand for streaming and virtual tabletop needs of your customers.
I don't think that the first goal of D&D Beyond is to compete with Roll 20, Fantasy ground and the like. The first goal I believe is too reach as many pen-and-paper gamer as possible. This forum alone is a godsend. Discussions on rules and classes help gamers in an unbelivable way.
So my thinking is that for the time being DDB will be a digital support for tabletop. Maybe in a future it will be a more complex app.
I agree with the above statement that I'm not looking for a virtual platform to play d&d. I love being in the same room when I play. However that being said it would be nice to be able to connect together inside an app. Where we have all the resources available at our touch for quick reference and give the dm the ability to private message the players in the party for information only their character would know. Could help limit Meta gaming. Doesn't need to be fancy just a simple party creation to send invite to a room for private messaging and rolls.
Roll20 already has a license with WotC to provide official D&D content on their platform, including adventures/modules. Integration with characters created at D&D Beyond could be a nifty feature, but I don't see that being something that's in the works since roll20 already has its own D&D character sheet.
I have done all my gaming with friends over Roll20 for the past four years since we live across the country. I don't have local friends that play regularly. It depends on the setup of the group if they want to play virtual or get to do it in person around the table. I actually like both since there is still voice coms when we use Roll20.
I will say that I do not think virtual anything is essential. What i am hoping this program does is make it easier for DMs and players to look up information when questions come up on the fly about things. I know as a DM it would be way easier to have my list of mobs they will run into and then be able to pull the stats up on the fly instead of needing a bunch of cards or sheets for them. I know I had a binder of stuff, but it would be cool if the homebrew lets you put in specific named beings as well as your own new kind of mob to run into. Then you can search and it pops right up for you. It would be a space and organization saver in my opinion and then whether I wind up on Roll20 or at a table, the app can help out.
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain
PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
To be clear though, apart from the forum and character builder, how does dnd beyond offer anything already implemented in roll20.
The srd rules, character sheets, spells, monsters, equipment are all already searchable content there.
I don't understand how dnd beyond is benefiting us or adding anything new.
Those are three things that D&D Beyond offers that roll20 does not. D&D Beyond is not positioned as a competitor to roll20, it is not a Virtual Tabletop, and nor will it be. VTTs take a lot of manpower and funding to develop, and the space is already pretty crowded. I don't think D&D Beyond has anything to gain by creating a VTT component, only a lot of money and time that could be spent on making a far better experience elsewhere.
They've spoken to Smiteworks who make Fantasy Grounds, apparently, about integrating some aspects. As someone who really hates both Smiteworks and Fantasy Grounds, I hope they do the same with Roll 20 and, quite frankly, I would be willing to bet that they'd have a lot easier a time of it and work better with the Roll 20 team than they could with Smiteworks. Roll 20 is both a better product and better people.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
There's no estimate on when, but it seems to be a when, not an if. Stay tuned folks.
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My homebrew: [Subclasses] [Races] [Feats] [Discussion Thread]
We are still in Phase 1. We are testing the functionality of the foundation to make sure it works. Then they will add all the character generation stuff in phase 2, hence the mega thread of what you want to see there. It isn't until Phase 3 that we get all the cool DM management and homebrew stuff. I really like how they are making this a modular build up of things to test because if they find something in the foundation that blows up, the rest can't be added yet. We need to make sure we understand what we are testing in order to give proper feedback and so far it is the foundation of how information is added (on their end) and looked up and linked.
And as I said before I am looking forward to seeing how the app works from table top to virtual settings in helping the creation and management of HOURS of gaming. I'm running out of things to comment on with phase 1, but I keep using it to see if anything else comes to mind to help the foundation. Lots of great input all over these forums so far that can help the devs.
PbP - Beregost Blues - Portia Starflower, Half Elf, Cleric, Life Domain
PbP - Tome of Annhilation - Vistani Mocanu, Human, Bard
Virtual Tabletop would be an awesome inclusion, 100% agree.
Even if they could just make this site be linked to, for instance, Roll20, that would be awesome!
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Agreed. Creating a VTT would be detrimental. However a searchable database of the whole of 5e that cab be used by any player at any time would be wonderful. I don't have the money for all the books I need at the moment because that adds up fast. I play using a series of digital resources including 3-4 apps and utilizing at least 4 different online resources. I constantly say to myself "I wish someone could make a comprehensive database." Half the people I play with the same thing. DDB is exactly what we have been asking for.
Without a VTT, I see no value in D&D Beyond. My group uses Roll20 both at table games (we display the map on a big screen TV) and for remote playing. With a VTT, I'd happily buy the core books and get the DM's subscription. Without it, I'll stick with Roll20 because DDB doesn't really add anything for me.