None of the invocations from Tasha's or earlier sources are appearing for the 2024 warlock class. I understand some of them got updated in the new PHB, but there are some cool ones like Relentless Hex and Tricksters Escape that didn't get updated, and it would be nice to still be able to use them.
Missing invocations include;
Aspect of the Moon
Beast Speech
Beguiling Influence
Bewitching Whispers
Book of Ancient Secrets
Chains of Carceri
Cloak of Flies
Dreadful Word
Eldritch Sight
Eyes of the Rune Keeper
Far Scribe
Ghostly Gaze
Gift of the Ever-Living Ones
Grasp of Hadar
Improved Pact Weapon
Lance of Lethargy
Maddening Hex
Minions of Chaos
Mire the Mind
Relentless Hex
Sculptor of Flesh
Shroud of Shadow
Sign of Ill Omen
Thief of Five Fates (technically obsolete now)
Tomb of Levistus
Trickster's Escape
Undying Servitude
Voice of the Chain Master
Also, will Pact of the Talisman get an Invocation as well? I understand that isnt exactly RAW, but it and its Invocations would be impossible to take otherwise.
While some people insist this shouldn't be the case, those invocations were printed for the 2014 Warlock. Subclasses were carried forward and 2014 characters can still be played, but the core features of each are entirely separate from each other.
None of the books that hold these character options are written to say they only apply to the 2014 versions of the classes. The warlock in PHB24 is just as much a warlock as the one in PHB14. This is not a new edition of the game, it is the latest iteration of the rules. The new classes are not intended to exist in tandem with the old ones or as separate entities, they are the classes. The options apply, dude.
When Xanathar's Guide says that paladins and clerics can prepare the Holy Weapon spell, no one is arguing that "ThEY oNlY mEAnT tHE 2014 VeRSioN!!" Everyone knows the spells can still be prepared by clerics and paladins.
Even Adventurers League (the official shared campaign, trademarked and signed off on by WotC, and an absolute no-mans-land when it comes to rules debates) allows the options from older books to be used if not updated in PHB24. Im playing 2024 characters with them in AL games right now.
[REDACTED] You can sit there and argue about where the links redirect you in the DDB compendium all day, but DDB isn't going to pay their employees to scour every book ever released to update links. They arent even paying them to make older subclasses use the 2024 version of spells on the new classes. Those links hold no bearing on the RAW, cause those links were set up by DDB for convenience, not by WotC or the games designers to be indicative of the intent.
It was also our understanding, as mods with early copies (not official RAI), that they were usable if compatible and not revised. I've put forward the question to the team.
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I've been told it's a system limitation that, aside from weapon masteries, class feature options cannot be shared across classes. And the versions of Warlock are technically different classes in the system.
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I've been told it's a system limitation that, aside from weapon masteries, class feature options cannot be shared across classes. And the versions of Warlock are technically different classes in the system.
It's good to hear that this is a technical limitation, thanks for that.
I've been told it's a system limitation that, aside from weapon masteries, class feature options cannot be shared across classes. And the versions of Warlock are technically different classes in the system.
Gonna be honest, that answer just makes it sound like this is a case of laziness in implementing features. After all, the subclasses are copied as new entities, not just pulled from the previous versions of the classes. So why wouldn't that be possible to do within just a few minutes of time at the computer with the optional features if they're intended for use?
I've been told it's a system limitation that, aside from weapon masteries, class feature options cannot be shared across classes. And the versions of Warlock are technically different classes in the system.
Gonna be honest, that answer just makes it sound like this is a case of laziness in implementing features. After all, the subclasses are copied as new entities, not just pulled from the previous versions of the classes. So why wouldn't that be possible to do within just a few minutes of time at the computer with the optional features if they're intended for use?
I work in data, and that likely isn't the problem. It probably has more to change the varius bits of code around the the UI, sheets, web forms, mobile app and other systems around it along with key tests so it doesn't completely break. And considering they had to do a switch on how they handled spells between 2014 and 2024, and address bugs in implementation, I'm not surprised that there is work still to be done at this point.
Could they do better? Sure. But, we aren't privvy to the details there, but I am sure that they aren't happy with amount of work to finish.
After working with data and interfaces to data for 20 years..I am willing to be patient because I know the work is never as simple as everyone wants it to be. I want dndbeyond's implementation to be successful, so my feedback is directed more at execs to get more resources to address issues, and not the poor techs trying to band-aid everything.
I've been told it's a system limitation that, aside from weapon masteries, class feature options cannot be shared across classes. And the versions of Warlock are technically different classes in the system.
I appreciate the update, but i would like to point out that it is possible to add them to the new versions of the classes, its just tedious. They would have to remake each individual option for the new walrocks Eldritch Invocations feature.
The way DDB handles feature options isnt the same way it handles spells and feats (sadly. i really wish they set it up the same way). Each option is tied to the feature it was created for. Invocations fall into this category, having been set up individually for the warlocks class feature. This is why it took so long for Eldritch Adept to get the same finctionality, because feats werent set up to work that way (also wish we had gotten access to that functionality on the community side, would have been cool).
Also, it is possible to add them in via homebrew, by adding a feature of the same name to a subclass, which overrides the feature from the base class. Issue there is subclasses kick in at 3rd level now, so this doesnt work for characters with 1 or 2 levels in warlock. This also comes with the issue of needing to recreate every single invocation option from scratch for the homebrew feature, including the ones in the PHB24, and we would have to do this for every warlock subclass. So having the dev team just set it up once in the core class is preferable.
So 'technical limitation' isnt really the right word, its more a lack of time taken to recreate every option on the new classes feature. Im sure what the team is trying to say is they cant just link the old invocations to the new class easily, because thats not how feature's are set up on DDB. But it wouldnt be hard to manually recreate them all, they would in no way have to rewire the entire website, its just tedious to do so. And either no-one is being paid to take the day to do it, its not a priority so it isnt getting the time, or nobody wants to. (not saying this is necessarily the devs fault, their hands are probably tied in other tasks, but this is essentially the end result)
None of the invocations from Tasha's or earlier sources are appearing for the 2024 warlock class. I understand some of them got updated in the new PHB, but there are some cool ones like Relentless Hex and Tricksters Escape that didn't get updated, and it would be nice to still be able to use them.
Missing invocations include;
Also, will Pact of the Talisman get an Invocation as well? I understand that isnt exactly RAW, but it and its Invocations would be impossible to take otherwise.
Would love to see the ones that aren't obsolete get updated!
Why are threads about this still being made?
While some people insist this shouldn't be the case, those invocations were printed for the 2014 Warlock. Subclasses were carried forward and 2014 characters can still be played, but the core features of each are entirely separate from each other.
[REDACTED]
None of the books that hold these character options are written to say they only apply to the 2014 versions of the classes. The warlock in PHB24 is just as much a warlock as the one in PHB14. This is not a new edition of the game, it is the latest iteration of the rules. The new classes are not intended to exist in tandem with the old ones or as separate entities, they are the classes. The options apply, dude.
When Xanathar's Guide says that paladins and clerics can prepare the Holy Weapon spell, no one is arguing that "ThEY oNlY mEAnT tHE 2014 VeRSioN!!" Everyone knows the spells can still be prepared by clerics and paladins.
Even Adventurers League (the official shared campaign, trademarked and signed off on by WotC, and an absolute no-mans-land when it comes to rules debates) allows the options from older books to be used if not updated in PHB24. Im playing 2024 characters with them in AL games right now.
[REDACTED] You can sit there and argue about where the links redirect you in the DDB compendium all day, but DDB isn't going to pay their employees to scour every book ever released to update links. They arent even paying them to make older subclasses use the 2024 version of spells on the new classes. Those links hold no bearing on the RAW, cause those links were set up by DDB for convenience, not by WotC or the games designers to be indicative of the intent.
[REDACTED]
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ModeratorIt was also our understanding, as mods with early copies (not official RAI), that they were usable if compatible and not revised. I've put forward the question to the team.
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ModeratorI've been told it's a system limitation that, aside from weapon masteries, class feature options cannot be shared across classes. And the versions of Warlock are technically different classes in the system.
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It's good to hear that this is a technical limitation, thanks for that.
So is this on the docket to fix at some point?
Gonna be honest, that answer just makes it sound like this is a case of laziness in implementing features. After all, the subclasses are copied as new entities, not just pulled from the previous versions of the classes. So why wouldn't that be possible to do within just a few minutes of time at the computer with the optional features if they're intended for use?
I work in data, and that likely isn't the problem. It probably has more to change the varius bits of code around the the UI, sheets, web forms, mobile app and other systems around it along with key tests so it doesn't completely break. And considering they had to do a switch on how they handled spells between 2014 and 2024, and address bugs in implementation, I'm not surprised that there is work still to be done at this point.
Could they do better? Sure. But, we aren't privvy to the details there, but I am sure that they aren't happy with amount of work to finish.
After working with data and interfaces to data for 20 years..I am willing to be patient because I know the work is never as simple as everyone wants it to be. I want dndbeyond's implementation to be successful, so my feedback is directed more at execs to get more resources to address issues, and not the poor techs trying to band-aid everything.
I appreciate the update, but i would like to point out that it is possible to add them to the new versions of the classes, its just tedious. They would have to remake each individual option for the new walrocks Eldritch Invocations feature.
The way DDB handles feature options isnt the same way it handles spells and feats (sadly. i really wish they set it up the same way). Each option is tied to the feature it was created for. Invocations fall into this category, having been set up individually for the warlocks class feature. This is why it took so long for Eldritch Adept to get the same finctionality, because feats werent set up to work that way (also wish we had gotten access to that functionality on the community side, would have been cool).
Also, it is possible to add them in via homebrew, by adding a feature of the same name to a subclass, which overrides the feature from the base class. Issue there is subclasses kick in at 3rd level now, so this doesnt work for characters with 1 or 2 levels in warlock. This also comes with the issue of needing to recreate every single invocation option from scratch for the homebrew feature, including the ones in the PHB24, and we would have to do this for every warlock subclass. So having the dev team just set it up once in the core class is preferable.
So 'technical limitation' isnt really the right word, its more a lack of time taken to recreate every option on the new classes feature. Im sure what the team is trying to say is they cant just link the old invocations to the new class easily, because thats not how feature's are set up on DDB. But it wouldnt be hard to manually recreate them all, they would in no way have to rewire the entire website, its just tedious to do so. And either no-one is being paid to take the day to do it, its not a priority so it isnt getting the time, or nobody wants to. (not saying this is necessarily the devs fault, their hands are probably tied in other tasks, but this is essentially the end result)