Silvery barbs is absolutely nothing compared to things like Spirit Guardians as written. Silvery Barbs is not even on my DMs radar. He didn't like 2014 SG, and the new version he's very unhappy with.
Spirit Guardians, that horrible spell you can save for half against, and is easily broken by concentration disruption, or automatically with a dispel at low levels, or any resist taking it to negated or half. OMG how do deal with that.
Did you miss the part where your barbarian, monk, wizard etc grapple you, you voluntarily fail the save, and they drag you around to re-tag all the enemies?
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Silvery barbs is absolutely nothing compared to things like Spirit Guardians as written. Silvery Barbs is not even on my DMs radar. He didn't like 2014 SG, and the new version he's very unhappy with.
Spirit Guardians, that horrible spell you can save for half against, and is easily broken by concentration disruption, or automatically with a dispel at low levels, or any resist taking it to negated or half. OMG how do deal with that.
Did you miss the part where your barbarian, monk, wizard etc grapple you, you voluntarily fail the save, and they drag you around to re-tag all the enemies?
[Redacted]Also the grapple causes a concentration check, or did you forget that part. It would be a check every time they would move the caster. [Redacted]
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
So you have someone spend their action to grapple you and move typically 15 ft to poke a few enemies with 3d8 damage, half on save, and hope they don't mob the caster before you can try and do it again? You can't move the caster far enough to really make a difference, especially if you aren't able to catch all the enemies in the center.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
So you have someone spend their action to grapple you and move typically 15 ft to poke a few enemies with 3d8 damage, half on save, and hope they don't mob the caster before you can try and do it again? You can't move the caster far enough to really make a difference, especially if you aren't able to catch all the enemies in the center.
Yeah, I am surprised that hasn't happened at my table yet. My players are terminally online looking for things like this.
But agreed, seems to be a lot of work given up for that result. I guess in certain situations of creature density it could be viable.....
The spirit guardians is a non issue. The DM just says no. And if the players insist it’s RAW, the DM points to the line in the DMG that says “Don’t let players attack each other or helpless creatures to activate those rules.” a grapple is an attack. So there’s that. (Side note, that bit of advice also takes care of the opportunity attack cure wounds.)
Anyway, this is way off topic for a silvery barbs thread. I do agree with Rhyls no one is going to convince anyone of how valid the spell is. That’s why, personally, I’ve just been pushing back against people who are saying their way is the right way, and others violate the spirit of the game or something, whatever the spirit of the game means. You don’t have to use it. That’s cool, I’m sure your table is having fun. But you don’t get to lecture others about how they should play.
In total fairness - I run player friendly games IF i ask someone to make a check I have never not once been asked about RAW. It's all a matter of trust do your players trust you to run a fair game - and do you trust them not to try and abuse a skill spell homebrew item to be a jerk. Its a collaborative effort No player has ever questioned my call at the table in a real way. Ever.
Maybe I'm lucky or maybe I run good games --- either way IDC none of this is ever an issue at my tables.
Folk, I'm seeing a lot of Quote Reply chains which tends to mean we have gone from discussing the original topic of the thread (Opinions on Silvery Barbs) to debating solely with one or two other users, inevitably turning personal. If you find that your reply in going to include a block of several other messages in a quote, it might be time to step back.
Also it looks like we've derailed from discussing Silvery Barbs and have dipped into 'Edition Wars' and debating other spells and how they intersect with RAW and houserules. At this point I'm not sure what about Silvery Barbs hasn't been discussed in over 50 pages, so if this conversation cannot get back on the rails and discuss it peacefully, it might be time to close the thread to prevent circular debates.
Did you miss the part where your barbarian, monk, wizard etc grapple you, you voluntarily fail the save, and they drag you around to re-tag all the enemies?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
[Redacted] Also the grapple causes a concentration check, or did you forget that part. It would be a check every time they would move the caster. [Redacted]
Where in RAW does it say that a grappled character needs to make a concentration check?
Neither Concentration (2014e) nor Concentration (2024e) require a check when Grappled.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
So you have someone spend their action to grapple you and move typically 15 ft to poke a few enemies with 3d8 damage, half on save, and hope they don't mob the caster before you can try and do it again? You can't move the caster far enough to really make a difference, especially if you aren't able to catch all the enemies in the center.
Please show me the rule that requires a conc check when grappled. [Redacted]
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, I am surprised that hasn't happened at my table yet. My players are terminally online looking for things like this.
But agreed, seems to be a lot of work given up for that result. I guess in certain situations of creature density it could be viable.....
The spirit guardians is a non issue. The DM just says no. And if the players insist it’s RAW, the DM points to the line in the DMG that says “Don’t let players attack each other or helpless creatures to activate those rules.” a grapple is an attack. So there’s that. (Side note, that bit of advice also takes care of the opportunity attack cure wounds.)
Anyway, this is way off topic for a silvery barbs thread. I do agree with Rhyls no one is going to convince anyone of how valid the spell is. That’s why, personally, I’ve just been pushing back against people who are saying their way is the right way, and others violate the spirit of the game or something, whatever the spirit of the game means. You don’t have to use it. That’s cool, I’m sure your table is having fun. But you don’t get to lecture others about how they should play.
In total fairness - I run player friendly games IF i ask someone to make a check I have never not once been asked about RAW. It's all a matter of trust do your players trust you to run a fair game - and do you trust them not to try and abuse a skill spell homebrew item to be a jerk. Its a collaborative effort No player has ever questioned my call at the table in a real way. Ever.
Maybe I'm lucky or maybe I run good games --- either way IDC none of this is ever an issue at my tables.
James
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ModeratorFolk, I'm seeing a lot of Quote Reply chains which tends to mean we have gone from discussing the original topic of the thread (Opinions on Silvery Barbs) to debating solely with one or two other users, inevitably turning personal. If you find that your reply in going to include a block of several other messages in a quote, it might be time to step back.
Also it looks like we've derailed from discussing Silvery Barbs and have dipped into 'Edition Wars' and debating other spells and how they intersect with RAW and houserules. At this point I'm not sure what about Silvery Barbs hasn't been discussed in over 50 pages, so if this conversation cannot get back on the rails and discuss it peacefully, it might be time to close the thread to prevent circular debates.
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