Literally impossible to pickpocket someone who's jumping around, swordfighting. But then, so is casting fireballs. So would I allow it? Mnyah maybe. It could very quickly become very OP, and then the answer would be no.
How is it OP, I hear you ask? Well, if you drop a sufficiently powerful magical explosive down the cleavage of my favourite villainess, then it is.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I'd say it varies from encounter to encounter, character to character. Some might be too dopey to respond to the combat in such a way that they can focus on the person just nabbing things from their pockets, and some might not ever keep the thief out of sight. Applying advantage/disadvantage, requiring actions, bonus actions and reactions be spent and just saying it's flat out impossible will depend entirely on the circumstances they're in.
I say this a lot on the Dungeon Master subforum: anything player characters can do, NPCs might also do.
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Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
That would require a sufficiently powerful magical explosive and to be so close that you would likely be caught in its blast. Whoever she is fighting besides you would be in the blast too. The cleavage would also have to be sufficiently exposed and her not notice the object in her cleavage as she moves around fighting otherwise, she'd just pull it out and throw it away.
And why would that be any more effective than simply throwing the explosive at her feet?
Well, if you know anything about demolitions, you know that a small directional charge pressed right up against the thing you want to blow up is generally A LOT more effective than an area of effect explosive - so, a 100 pound artillery shell will to substantially less damage to a bridge pylon than a much smaller, deliberately placed directional charge, even on a direct hit. A charge of any type placed inside someone's armored underwear will basically turn the wearer into a fragmentation grenade.
But that's essentially irrelevant. It was an example - and a joke too. The point is: It can so, so easily be abused.
Am I cool with a player doing something clever with pickpocket? Yea, presumably. Do I want pickpocket demolitions to be a part of all combats? Oh hell no!
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Not sure if anyone’s watching this topic still, but with the 2024 player handbook, Thieves now can pick pockets as a bonus action as part of the Fast Hands feature. The implication here seems to definitely be that at least Thieves should be running around picking pockets during combat.
In "The Wild Beyond the Witchlight" adventure, there is a character with a special bonus action called Quick Fingers.
Spoiler ahead!
Agdon targets one creature within 5 feet of him that he can see and makes a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, with a DC equal to 1 + the target's passive Wisdom (Perception) score. On a successful check, Agdon pilfers one object weighing 1 pound or less that the target has in its possession but not in its grasp, without the target noticing the theft.
I think that provided my players can narratively explain it, then yes. I would even be happy to let them rol lwithout prompting, because it improves the flow.
DM: "The goblin uses their action to escape your grapple and step away."
Player: "...And that's a 22 to pick their pocket as a reaction, do I get anything?"
I would probably rule that they can make an attack of opportunity, including a Grapple, if they catch someone picking their pocket. I would also probably rule that there are 3 tiers to this:
1: Rolled well. Picked pocket. 2: Rolled poorly, got caught, got attacked. 3: Rolled poorly, but they already used their reaction, so you succeeded - but they know it.
That way being tactical (this guy has had a turn and a reaction, it's the perfect time to grab somethign whilst they're distracted!) pays off, and good rolls are effective too. I would ask for a narrative reason why it goes unnoticed, such as another person distracting, or the old bump & grab technique. I wouldn't put too much pressure on them though, just encourage them to consider it!
There are so many scenes in movies and books that do this kind of action-fantasy- that I wonder why you just can't do it in dnd- also fantasy. Like a Tipical rogue stealing anything while being grappled (a key, the mcguffing, a gun/small sword, etc).
Pick pocket/sleight of hand is an action (bonus action for Thiefs or anyone that specifically can).
At the end of the day its a DC that the DM sets according to the situation, from very simple vs perception, to imposible (you are not stealing the sword the guy has in his hands, or arming a nuke in his panties).
Anyone who has ever actually been in a close quarters fight knows that you always keep track of where the other guy's hands are. Trying to pick pockets during an actual fight, should be very tough to get away with.
Grabbing an item off of them is one thing, stealthily removing something while they are actively watching your hands because you're in a fight is an entirely different matter. I'd either set that DC high, or give the player disadvantage on their sleight of hand while giving the target advantage to spot it.
Using your action to do so, while taking the hit from the enemy as a distraction - possible, but tough. Really don't like it being a bonus action.
Not sure if anyone’s watching this topic still, but with the 2024 player handbook, Thieves now can pick pockets as a bonus action as part of the Fast Hands feature. The implication here seems to definitely be that at least Thieves should be running around picking pockets during combat.
That's not new to 2024, it was possible in 2014 as well (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/classes#FastHands). It's just almost never useful, because most enemies don't have anything that can be stolen for a combat effect, and for anything else you can loot after combat.
Not sure if anyone’s watching this topic still, but with the 2024 player handbook, Thieves now can pick pockets as a bonus action as part of the Fast Hands feature. The implication here seems to definitely be that at least Thieves should be running around picking pockets during combat.
That's not new to 2024, it was possible in 2014 as well (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/classes#FastHands). It's just almost never useful, because most enemies don't have anything that can be stolen for a combat effect, and for anything else you can loot after combat.
Actually getting something from a pocket might be difficult but cutting a purse loose or taking a sheathed weapon might not be too out of place.
Cinematically, there are many examples of a combatant taking a blade (gun?) from their opponent during a scuffle.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
In combat, picking pockets can be less about what you're taking out than it is about what you're putting in. It's always fun giving them the old Shady Sands Shuffle.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I would also add that liberating a spellcaster from their arcane focus at the start of a battle would be an excellent tactic.
I agree that in a 1:1 fight where the opponent is focussed on the character, that sleight of hand would be extremey difficult. Throw in a grapple attempt and it becomes much easier though.
It all depends in the situation, and how far the DM believes something is possible (Fantasy Anime being the top example of ridiculous things).
If a someone is goingnto try and use sleight of hands mid combat to pick a pocket, they are going to wait for the best opportunity: while hidden, grabbed, distracted fighting another guy, etc.
Anyone who has ever actually been in a close quarters fight knows that you always keep track of where the other guy's hands are. Trying to pick pockets during an actual fight, should be very tough to get away with.
Grabbing an item off of them is one thing, stealthily removing something while they are actively watching your hands because you're in a fight is an entirely different matter. I'd either set that DC high, or give the player disadvantage on their sleight of hand while giving the target advantage to spot it.
Using your action to do so, while taking the hit from the enemy as a distraction - possible, but tough. Really don't like it being a bonus action.
The only consideration of it being a bonus action are Thief Rogues that have a specific feature to use sleight of hand as a bonus action. For the rest of the universe it is an action.
Thematically I would love for picking a pocket to be a reaction instead for the Thief. I may even houserule it if I ever have a player with one.
"When a creature within 5ft. of you is attacked by a creature other than you, or attacks a creature other than you, as a reaction, you may attempt to pick their pocket".
Thus is relies on distractions and teamwork, whilt also leaning into an "opportunist" theme. Rather than going in specifically to pick their pocket, they choose to do so as a reaction to the opportunity.
Thematically I would love for picking a pocket to be a reaction instead for the Thief. I may even houserule it if I ever have a player with one.
"When a creature within 5ft. of you is attacked by a creature other than you, or attacks a creature other than you, as a reaction, you may attempt to pick their pocket".
Thus is relies on distractions and teamwork, whilt also leaning into an "opportunist" theme. Rather than going in specifically to pick their pocket, they choose to do so as a reaction to the opportunity.
Here's the test as to whether that's a good idea... Have NPCs do it to the PCs. If the PCs are ok with that, then you know it's a good rule.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Thematically I would love for picking a pocket to be a reaction instead for the Thief. I may even houserule it if I ever have a player with one.
"When a creature within 5ft. of you is attacked by a creature other than you, or attacks a creature other than you, as a reaction, you may attempt to pick their pocket".
Thus is relies on distractions and teamwork, whilt also leaning into an "opportunist" theme. Rather than going in specifically to pick their pocket, they choose to do so as a reaction to the opportunity.
Here's the test as to whether that's a good idea... Have NPCs do it to the PCs. If the PCs are ok with that, then you know it's a good rule.
I might at that. I can imagine it now... "Ok, they use their reaction... *roll*, ok, next person."
Would you allow it?
Is the target distracted by fighting so you can pull it off?
OR is the target extra cautious so you can"t even try?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Yes if hidden.
As an Arcane Trickster using Mage Hand Legerdemain? Absolutely (with a successful Sleight of Hand check.) Otherwise, probably pretty tricky.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Literally impossible to pickpocket someone who's jumping around, swordfighting. But then, so is casting fireballs. So would I allow it? Mnyah maybe. It could very quickly become very OP, and then the answer would be no.
How is it OP, I hear you ask? Well, if you drop a sufficiently powerful magical explosive down the cleavage of my favourite villainess, then it is.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I'd say it varies from encounter to encounter, character to character. Some might be too dopey to respond to the combat in such a way that they can focus on the person just nabbing things from their pockets, and some might not ever keep the thief out of sight. Applying advantage/disadvantage, requiring actions, bonus actions and reactions be spent and just saying it's flat out impossible will depend entirely on the circumstances they're in.
I say this a lot on the Dungeon Master subforum: anything player characters can do, NPCs might also do.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
Well, if you know anything about demolitions, you know that a small directional charge pressed right up against the thing you want to blow up is generally A LOT more effective than an area of effect explosive - so, a 100 pound artillery shell will to substantially less damage to a bridge pylon than a much smaller, deliberately placed directional charge, even on a direct hit. A charge of any type placed inside someone's armored underwear will basically turn the wearer into a fragmentation grenade.
But that's essentially irrelevant. It was an example - and a joke too. The point is: It can so, so easily be abused.
Am I cool with a player doing something clever with pickpocket? Yea, presumably. Do I want pickpocket demolitions to be a part of all combats? Oh hell no!
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Not sure if anyone’s watching this topic still, but with the 2024 player handbook, Thieves now can pick pockets as a bonus action as part of the Fast Hands feature. The implication here seems to definitely be that at least Thieves should be running around picking pockets during combat.
"I steal his extra dagger! No more of that switching weapons dual wield poop for you!"
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
In "The Wild Beyond the Witchlight" adventure, there is a character with a special bonus action called Quick Fingers.
Spoiler ahead!
Agdon targets one creature within 5 feet of him that he can see and makes a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, with a DC equal to 1 + the target's passive Wisdom (Perception) score. On a successful check, Agdon pilfers one object weighing 1 pound or less that the target has in its possession but not in its grasp, without the target noticing the theft.
I think that provided my players can narratively explain it, then yes. I would even be happy to let them rol lwithout prompting, because it improves the flow.
DM: "The goblin uses their action to escape your grapple and step away."
Player: "...And that's a 22 to pick their pocket as a reaction, do I get anything?"
I would probably rule that they can make an attack of opportunity, including a Grapple, if they catch someone picking their pocket. I would also probably rule that there are 3 tiers to this:
1: Rolled well. Picked pocket.
2: Rolled poorly, got caught, got attacked.
3: Rolled poorly, but they already used their reaction, so you succeeded - but they know it.
That way being tactical (this guy has had a turn and a reaction, it's the perfect time to grab somethign whilst they're distracted!) pays off, and good rolls are effective too. I would ask for a narrative reason why it goes unnoticed, such as another person distracting, or the old bump & grab technique. I wouldn't put too much pressure on them though, just encourage them to consider it!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread - latest release; the Harvest Sprite, a playable Jack-o-Lantern Race!
Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: The Promethean Scientist (Dr Frankenstein) Artificer Subclass!!
I also dabble in art on here (my art thread)
There are so many scenes in movies and books that do this kind of action-fantasy- that I wonder why you just can't do it in dnd- also fantasy. Like a Tipical rogue stealing anything while being grappled (a key, the mcguffing, a gun/small sword, etc).
Pick pocket/sleight of hand is an action (bonus action for Thiefs or anyone that specifically can).
At the end of the day its a DC that the DM sets according to the situation, from very simple vs perception, to imposible (you are not stealing the sword the guy has in his hands, or arming a nuke in his panties).
Anyone who has ever actually been in a close quarters fight knows that you always keep track of where the other guy's hands are. Trying to pick pockets during an actual fight, should be very tough to get away with.
Grabbing an item off of them is one thing, stealthily removing something while they are actively watching your hands because you're in a fight is an entirely different matter. I'd either set that DC high, or give the player disadvantage on their sleight of hand while giving the target advantage to spot it.
Using your action to do so, while taking the hit from the enemy as a distraction - possible, but tough. Really don't like it being a bonus action.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
That's not new to 2024, it was possible in 2014 as well (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/classes#FastHands). It's just almost never useful, because most enemies don't have anything that can be stolen for a combat effect, and for anything else you can loot after combat.
Actually getting something from a pocket might be difficult but cutting a purse loose or taking a sheathed weapon might not be too out of place.
Cinematically, there are many examples of a combatant taking a blade (gun?) from their opponent during a scuffle.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
In combat, picking pockets can be less about what you're taking out than it is about what you're putting in. It's always fun giving them the old Shady Sands Shuffle.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I would also add that liberating a spellcaster from their arcane focus at the start of a battle would be an excellent tactic.
I agree that in a 1:1 fight where the opponent is focussed on the character, that sleight of hand would be extremey difficult. Throw in a grapple attempt and it becomes much easier though.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread - latest release; the Harvest Sprite, a playable Jack-o-Lantern Race!
Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: The Promethean Scientist (Dr Frankenstein) Artificer Subclass!!
I also dabble in art on here (my art thread)
Exactly,
It all depends in the situation, and how far the DM believes something is possible (Fantasy Anime being the top example of ridiculous things).
If a someone is goingnto try and use sleight of hands mid combat to pick a pocket, they are going to wait for the best opportunity: while hidden, grabbed, distracted fighting another guy, etc.
The only consideration of it being a bonus action are Thief Rogues that have a specific feature to use sleight of hand as a bonus action. For the rest of the universe it is an action.
Thematically I would love for picking a pocket to be a reaction instead for the Thief. I may even houserule it if I ever have a player with one.
"When a creature within 5ft. of you is attacked by a creature other than you, or attacks a creature other than you, as a reaction, you may attempt to pick their pocket".
Thus is relies on distractions and teamwork, whilt also leaning into an "opportunist" theme. Rather than going in specifically to pick their pocket, they choose to do so as a reaction to the opportunity.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread - latest release; the Harvest Sprite, a playable Jack-o-Lantern Race!
Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: The Promethean Scientist (Dr Frankenstein) Artificer Subclass!!
I also dabble in art on here (my art thread)
Here's the test as to whether that's a good idea... Have NPCs do it to the PCs. If the PCs are ok with that, then you know it's a good rule.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I might at that. I can imagine it now... "Ok, they use their reaction... *roll*, ok, next person."
later on:
"Why don't I have my coin purse?"
everyone: "Ohhh, that was the reaction! Damnit!"
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread - latest release; the Harvest Sprite, a playable Jack-o-Lantern Race!
Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: The Promethean Scientist (Dr Frankenstein) Artificer Subclass!!
I also dabble in art on here (my art thread)