The books will layout how you can use material/adventures from before the 2024 books so people can continue to use the books they own and provide as frictionless a process as possible.
....
One of the things we're doing to ensure that 5E stays compatible with itself is that when a number is attached to itself, it won't change. So no spells are changing levels and no monster CRs are changing. They're working to make the CR of the monster and not change the CR. Similarly they're making sure the spell is appropriate for the level instead of changing the spell level. This is one of the ways we're supporting a revision of 5E in place instead of creating a 5.5 or 5E.
The way content is on D&D Beyond will not change either. If you bought a book, it'll still be there. They may get a "legacy" label, but they'll still be there.
Will our current core books in D&D Beyond just get upgraded to the 2024 version? No, they are considered new books because they have so much new content, new art, etc.
In other words, all indications are that they will handle this as they did the "archiving" of Volo's and the first Mordenkainen's after the release of the second Mordenkainen's.
that’s a nice start, now WotC needs to put that in print
Having books grandfathered (legacy) still does not mean that character creation on D&D beyond won’t change - if the character sheets are changed to 6ed then that breaks how I can run 5e games through D&D beyond even if the original books I have purchased access to are still available
the statement above is The way content is on D&D Beyond will not change either. If you bought a book, it'll still be there. There is nothing in that statement that supports running a game of 5e on D&D Beyond and a third party VTT, bar access to old editions core rules.
WotC purchasing D&D beyond so that there wasn’t a competitor running a thoroughly effective platform on a legacy edition was a very clever move.
Leaving any discussion of rules changes aside for one moment; anyone who has experienced the utter hellscape that is a modern "games as a service model" video game ought to be terrified of what's coming down the pipe toward us... Because I promise you that's what the "future model" of D&D would be if the worst actors in WOTC/Hasbro had their way; the potential of "infinite profit" is one that hardly any executive could pass up. That's almost certainly what the OGL debacle was trying to lay the groundwork for, and I promise you dollars to doughnuts those plans haven't gone away.
Leaving any discussion of rules changes aside for one moment; anyone who has experienced the utter hellscape that is a modern "games as a service model" video game ought to be terrified of what's coming down the pipe toward us... Because I promise you that's what the "future model" of D&D would be if the worst actors in WOTC/Hasbro had their way; the potential of "infinite profit" is one that hardly any executive could pass up. That's almost certainly what the OGL debacle was trying to lay the groundwork for, and I promise you dollars to doughnuts those plans haven't gone away.
[Citation Needed]
Right now there is no evidence to suggest the above poster’s “promise” has any weight - and given their long, long history of anti-Wizards conspiratorial posting and similar promises which have borne no fruit, their assurances should really be taken with a heavy dose of skepticism.
Right now, the indications seem to be that Wizards’ will likely keep a lot of the monetisation for the core game the same - they have said on multiple occasions they are happy with the vast majority of their profit systems and instead want to look into new revenue sources rather than adjusting the current. Optional features like the VTT might have some sort of game as service model - but that is pretty standard for something that is a service, not just a game, and we don’t even know anything real about its monetisation so it borders on ridiculous to speculate.
If you want to blindly trust your corporate overlords; be my guest, that's your business. It doesn't mean anyone else has to or should. Absolutely anything that doesn't exist yet "Could be good"; that's because it doesn't exist yet; it only exists in a purely theoretical quantum superstate of every possible degree of quality.
For my part: I've observed the current reigning culture of WOTC to be lazy, avaricious, and worst of all; nakedly duplicitous. So forgive me if I take what they say with a pinch, spoonful, nay an entire brick of salt.
If you want to blindly trust your corporate overlords; be my guest, that's your business. It doesn't mean anyone else has to or should. Absolutely anything that doesn't exist yet "Could be good"; that's because it doesn't exist yet; it only exists in a purely theoretical quantum superstate of every possible degree of quality.
For my part: I've observed the current reigning culture of WOTC to be lazy, avaricious, and worst of all; nakedly duplicitous. So forgive me if I take what they say with a pinch, spoonful, nay an entire brick of salt.
Firstly, I think some of the assumptions you make about Wizards lack a clear basis of evidence. Regardless of what you think of Wizards of the Coast, just because you don't think they're good, that doesn't justify making promises about what they'll do in future based on little to no actual evidence.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
Just because we will have legacy access to the 2014 rulesets does not mean the site or company is obligated to make it easy to use, reference, share, or implement old content without being annoyingly and repeatedly confronted with notices to buy the new 2024 content.
Hasbro/WotC is a company, and that is their prerogative to push new content. Frankly, none of us know what they are going to do. However, past behavior as shown via leaked employee statements, desired changes only scrapped under public pressure, and an increasingly tight market beholden to shareholders does not signal rainbows and lollipops.
And why should there be trust that they will do the right thing by the community? Regardless of releasing the 2014 rulesets to Creative Commons, the damage was already done. The hobby will survive, but the community was irreparably damaged. Look at all the infighting amongst peoples formerly aligned not that long ago.
People can do what they want, and they should. WotC will likely make bank moving forward, but simultaneously there will likely be a shift of some players and DM/GMs offline or to other systems. I can only speak for myself that I do not intend to purchase further into an untested transition. Maybe in several years, but until then, other systems await.
Just because we will have legacy access to the 2014 rulesets does not mean the site or company is obligated to make it easy to use, reference, share, or implement old content without being annoyingly and repeatedly confronted with notices to buy the new 2024 content.
Hasbro/WotC is a company, and that is their prerogative to push new content. Frankly, none of us know what they are going to do. However, past behavior as shown via leaked employee statements, desired changes only scrapped under public pressure, and an increasingly tight market beholden to shareholders does not signal rainbows and lollipops.
And why should there be trust that they will do the right thing by the community? Regardless of releasing the 2014 rulesets to Creative Commons, the damage was already done. The hobby will survive, but the community was irreparably damaged. Look at all the infighting amongst peoples formerly aligned not that long ago.
People can do what they want, and they should. WotC will likely make bank moving forward, but simultaneously there will likely be a shift of some players and DM/GMs offline or to other systems. I can only speak for myself that I do not intend to purchase further into an untested transition. Maybe in several years, but until then, other systems await.
The first mistake is calling it 6th edition. Whatever it is, it won't be a full edition change. We can argue over 5th revised, or 5.5 or 5.25, or 5.37684, but 6 is just flat wrong.
For my part, having been through all the edition changes, and I always like the new one. I even liked 4 for a while. I expect I'll like this one, too. Whether I'll like it better or not, I won't be able to say until its actually out and in my hand. Anyone who went through the Dndnext playtest which gave us 5e can tell you that what we saw in playtest often differed greatly from what was published. Making judgments about a whole edition that won't be out for another year after having seen what amounts to a handful of trial balloons is a fool's errand.
I am worried about the one d&d versions being forced upon us on DnDBeyond.
This. If they try to force subscribers into their new version simply by overriding our ability to use the site to play 5e then I'll be out for sure. Already have to homebrew a bunch of stuff just to play D&D 5e without all of the unwanted changes they've forced on us in this same manner in recent years. I dare say it's likely to happen based on that precedent, and also as it's a nice underhanded way to try and boost numbers for the new version of the game.
Just because we will have legacy access to the 2014 rulesets does not mean the site or company is obligated to make it easy to use, reference, share, or implement old content without being annoyingly and repeatedly confronted with notices to buy the new 2024 content.
Hasbro/WotC is a company, and that is their prerogative to push new content. Frankly, none of us know what they are going to do. However, past behavior as shown via leaked employee statements, desired changes only scrapped under public pressure, and an increasingly tight market beholden to shareholders does not signal rainbows and lollipops.
And why should there be trust that they will do the right thing by the community? Regardless of releasing the 2014 rulesets to Creative Commons, the damage was already done. The hobby will survive, but the community was irreparably damaged. Look at all the infighting amongst peoples formerly aligned not that long ago.
People can do what they want, and they should. WotC will likely make bank moving forward, but simultaneously there will likely be a shift of some players and DM/GMs offline or to other systems. I can only speak for myself that I do not intend to purchase further into an untested transition. Maybe in several years, but until then, other systems await.
I don't understand this righteous stance about trust. I don't trust any corporation - I transact with them when they offer something I want/need, and don't when I don't. I don't trust Walmart or Verizon or Disney either. Trust is not a prerequisite for simple commerce.
For me, the ease and convenience of the digital product offerings outweighs the nonzero chance that WotC may shelve access to all of them someday in lieu of the Next Big Thing. For you it may not be, and that's okay. What I don't do is yell from the rooftops - or more amusingly, their rooftop - every time I swipe or choose not to swipe my card.
Ha! We're simply doing what we always do when faced with change - pretending like we know what we're doing and hoping for the best. It's only right and proper to prepare for a new edition or revision by celebrating what we prefer most from all editions prior. Like all true gamers, we'll take the best bits and leave the rest behind.
I mean, if we didn't wail and gnash our teeth at every new edition, we'd lose our license to be grumpy. It's as reliable as a bus being late! We all know what's coming, but we can't resist complaining about it anyway!
Tea, anyone? How much sugar? Cream? Of course, let me get that for you. Because what's a good old-fashioned panic without a proper brew? Party hats are in the vestibule! Who says change has to be boring? Let's embrace it with silly hats and even sillier attitudes.
Recently, all over the internet and D&D beyond, people have been really worried about D&D 6th edition. Most people seem to be scared it will overhaul good rules, create new ones that are bad, or just flat out ruin the game. The truth is this. The suspense of the new edition coming out in 2024 is what is mainly making people worry. Nobody really has a ton of info on it, so it is making people very worried, because they are assuming the worse. When it comes out, just sit back, relax, read the new edition and understand it, and if you do not like it, then simply stick with D&D 5th edition. If you love 6th, then simply switch to 6th. And if you like bits of both, then just use bits of both.
Everyone needs to relax. It's gonna be fine. D&D wont change, you can stick with 5th, and D&D 6th will just be optional.
My players and game store said that during the second edition optional. And the third edition. And 3.5 and 4. Now 6 e will have just enough content changes you will have to update or just be another old gamer yelling at clouds and starting edition wars.
From the playtest, just enough will change so play will be different if you use 2014 PHB vs the 2024 edition.
I don't understand this righteous stance about trust. I don't trust any corporation - I transact with them when they offer something I want/need, and don't when I don't. I don't trust Walmart or Verizon or Disney either. Trust is not a prerequisite for simple commerce.
For me, the ease and convenience of the digital product offerings outweighs the nonzero chance that WotC may shelve access to all of them someday in lieu of the Next Big Thing. For you it may not be, and that's okay. What I don't do is yell from the rooftops - or more amusingly, their rooftop - every time I swipe or choose not to swipe my card.
It's preposterous to say trust is not a prerequisite for commerce because some degree of trust must be there for a consumer to even choose to do business with someone. Whether or not you're conscious of it your simply deciding you're going to eat somewhere or shop somewhere means you trust that somewhere. Or you wouldn't eat or shop there.
Who buys things willy-nilly online without knowing they can trust the vender?
What's so hard to understand about that "righteous" stance? Some choose to do business with smaller businesses because smaller businesses for whom their labour is one of love care more about their trade than making millions. If I want to buy something made by someone who treats their labour as a craft because I trust they'e going to do a better job of it than a corporation that is just going to cheap out on the production of the same thing that's my prerogative.
People are allowed to make conscious decisions when it comes to what they buy and for some of those decisions to be about trust and goodwill. You needn't. But don't pretend none of us have trust in mind when we buy things so you can act like others are weird for having lost trust in Wizards and wondering if they ought to choose to do business with them.
Message to the future from the present- try again. My 2024 characters are 2024 characters, my 2014 characters have remained 2014 characters. If your going to try and stir up trouble please get your facts straight first - don’t lead with your fears.
Given where DDB is currently I am not worried, but the posts made earlier in this thread should come defend or redact their claims about how it was going to be vs how it actually is.
We got what we asked for and for many it is not what they wanted, RAW VS RAI and all, I am not happy with how it is currently, but I did get what I asked for even if it isn't what some/most of us thought were told we would get. Definitely feels like, without a toggle to turn off '24 rules for '14 characters we are being punished for keeping the '14 versions on the creation tools.
The next edition whatever you want to call will likely follow in the footsteps of how other "revised rules" editions have done in the past, which is to say its usually an improvement on the original mechanically, but that does not necessarily translate to improved sales. Typically revisions sell less than their predecessor I think the only exception might have been 3.5, the revision of 3rd edition but if it outsold it, it would have been by a small margin.
In any case, generally speaking, most people should be quite happy with revised 5e, its a game that has had 10 years of playtesting, so there is bound to be some benefit derived from that. If you can't learn from 10 years of playtesting, you should probably shutdown shop and stop trying because you suck at your job.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I, too, will abstain.
that’s a nice start, now WotC needs to put that in print
Having books grandfathered (legacy) still does not mean that character creation on D&D beyond won’t change - if the character sheets are changed to 6ed then that breaks how I can run 5e games through D&D beyond even if the original books I have purchased access to are still available
the statement above is The way content is on D&D Beyond will not change either. If you bought a book, it'll still be there. There is nothing in that statement that supports running a game of 5e on D&D Beyond and a third party VTT, bar access to old editions core rules.
WotC purchasing D&D beyond so that there wasn’t a competitor running a thoroughly effective platform on a legacy edition was a very clever move.
Leaving any discussion of rules changes aside for one moment; anyone who has experienced the utter hellscape that is a modern "games as a service model" video game ought to be terrified of what's coming down the pipe toward us... Because I promise you that's what the "future model" of D&D would be if the worst actors in WOTC/Hasbro had their way; the potential of "infinite profit" is one that hardly any executive could pass up. That's almost certainly what the OGL debacle was trying to lay the groundwork for, and I promise you dollars to doughnuts those plans haven't gone away.
[Citation Needed]
Right now there is no evidence to suggest the above poster’s “promise” has any weight - and given their long, long history of anti-Wizards conspiratorial posting and similar promises which have borne no fruit, their assurances should really be taken with a heavy dose of skepticism.
Right now, the indications seem to be that Wizards’ will likely keep a lot of the monetisation for the core game the same - they have said on multiple occasions they are happy with the vast majority of their profit systems and instead want to look into new revenue sources rather than adjusting the current. Optional features like the VTT might have some sort of game as service model - but that is pretty standard for something that is a service, not just a game, and we don’t even know anything real about its monetisation so it borders on ridiculous to speculate.
If you want to blindly trust your corporate overlords; be my guest, that's your business. It doesn't mean anyone else has to or should. Absolutely anything that doesn't exist yet "Could be good"; that's because it doesn't exist yet; it only exists in a purely theoretical quantum superstate of every possible degree of quality.
For my part: I've observed the current reigning culture of WOTC to be lazy, avaricious, and worst of all; nakedly duplicitous. So forgive me if I take what they say with a pinch, spoonful, nay an entire brick of salt.
Stop throwing Russell's Tea Pots at each other. They took a long time for him to collect across the Seas of Possibilities.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Firstly, I think some of the assumptions you make about Wizards lack a clear basis of evidence. Regardless of what you think of Wizards of the Coast, just because you don't think they're good, that doesn't justify making promises about what they'll do in future based on little to no actual evidence.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I am worried about the one d&d versions being forced upon us on DnDBeyond.
I would recommend reading THIS post.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Just because we will have legacy access to the 2014 rulesets does not mean the site or company is obligated to make it easy to use, reference, share, or implement old content without being annoyingly and repeatedly confronted with notices to buy the new 2024 content.
Hasbro/WotC is a company, and that is their prerogative to push new content. Frankly, none of us know what they are going to do. However, past behavior as shown via leaked employee statements, desired changes only scrapped under public pressure, and an increasingly tight market beholden to shareholders does not signal rainbows and lollipops.
And why should there be trust that they will do the right thing by the community? Regardless of releasing the 2014 rulesets to Creative Commons, the damage was already done. The hobby will survive, but the community was irreparably damaged. Look at all the infighting amongst peoples formerly aligned not that long ago.
People can do what they want, and they should. WotC will likely make bank moving forward, but simultaneously there will likely be a shift of some players and DM/GMs offline or to other systems. I can only speak for myself that I do not intend to purchase further into an untested transition. Maybe in several years, but until then, other systems await.
Well said.
I prefer 5.π myself
This. If they try to force subscribers into their new version simply by overriding our ability to use the site to play 5e then I'll be out for sure. Already have to homebrew a bunch of stuff just to play D&D 5e without all of the unwanted changes they've forced on us in this same manner in recent years. I dare say it's likely to happen based on that precedent, and also as it's a nice underhanded way to try and boost numbers for the new version of the game.
I don't understand this righteous stance about trust. I don't trust any corporation - I transact with them when they offer something I want/need, and don't when I don't. I don't trust Walmart or Verizon or Disney either. Trust is not a prerequisite for simple commerce.
For me, the ease and convenience of the digital product offerings outweighs the nonzero chance that WotC may shelve access to all of them someday in lieu of the Next Big Thing. For you it may not be, and that's okay. What I don't do is yell from the rooftops - or more amusingly, their rooftop - every time I swipe or choose not to swipe my card.
Worried? Who said anything about being worried???
Ha! We're simply doing what we always do when faced with change - pretending like we know what we're doing and hoping for the best. It's only right and proper to prepare for a new edition or revision by celebrating what we prefer most from all editions prior. Like all true gamers, we'll take the best bits and leave the rest behind.
I mean, if we didn't wail and gnash our teeth at every new edition, we'd lose our license to be grumpy. It's as reliable as a bus being late! We all know what's coming, but we can't resist complaining about it anyway!
Tea, anyone? How much sugar? Cream? Of course, let me get that for you. Because what's a good old-fashioned panic without a proper brew? Party hats are in the vestibule! Who says change has to be boring? Let's embrace it with silly hats and even sillier attitudes.
View my StartPlaying.Games profile to see my games!
My players and game store said that during the second edition optional. And the third edition. And 3.5 and 4. Now 6 e will have just enough content changes you will have to update or just be another old gamer yelling at clouds and starting edition wars.
From the playtest, just enough will change so play will be different if you use 2014 PHB vs the 2024 edition.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
It's preposterous to say trust is not a prerequisite for commerce because some degree of trust must be there for a consumer to even choose to do business with someone. Whether or not you're conscious of it your simply deciding you're going to eat somewhere or shop somewhere means you trust that somewhere. Or you wouldn't eat or shop there.
Who buys things willy-nilly online without knowing they can trust the vender?
What's so hard to understand about that "righteous" stance? Some choose to do business with smaller businesses because smaller businesses for whom their labour is one of love care more about their trade than making millions. If I want to buy something made by someone who treats their labour as a craft because I trust they'e going to do a better job of it than a corporation that is just going to cheap out on the production of the same thing that's my prerogative.
People are allowed to make conscious decisions when it comes to what they buy and for some of those decisions to be about trust and goodwill. You needn't. But don't pretend none of us have trust in mind when we buy things so you can act like others are weird for having lost trust in Wizards and wondering if they ought to choose to do business with them.
Message to the future from the present- try again. My 2024 characters are 2024 characters, my 2014 characters have remained 2014 characters. If your going to try and stir up trouble please get your facts straight first - don’t lead with your fears.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Given where DDB is currently I am not worried, but the posts made earlier in this thread should come defend or redact their claims about how it was going to be vs how it actually is.
We got what we asked for and for many it is not what they wanted, RAW VS RAI and all, I am not happy with how it is currently, but I did get what I asked for even if it isn't what some/most of us thought were told we would get. Definitely feels like, without a toggle to turn off '24 rules for '14 characters we are being punished for keeping the '14 versions on the creation tools.
JMO!
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
The next edition whatever you want to call will likely follow in the footsteps of how other "revised rules" editions have done in the past, which is to say its usually an improvement on the original mechanically, but that does not necessarily translate to improved sales. Typically revisions sell less than their predecessor I think the only exception might have been 3.5, the revision of 3rd edition but if it outsold it, it would have been by a small margin.
In any case, generally speaking, most people should be quite happy with revised 5e, its a game that has had 10 years of playtesting, so there is bound to be some benefit derived from that. If you can't learn from 10 years of playtesting, you should probably shutdown shop and stop trying because you suck at your job.