When I first heard there was going to be a Planescape box set I was like Hell Yeah, but when I saw (in the D&D Beyond article) what the adventure is going to be about I was like F**K YES! Planescape Torment is possibly the only game that really made me feel like it could easily be a work of High Art (though I personally despise such classifications). I just wonder how exactly the adventure will handle the fact that D&D is played with several people playing several PCs. But just seeing the page count makes me think they learned at least something from the Spelljammer fiasco (though I personally find nothing wrong with that box set, I got my money's worth). Honestly, with The Movie and this box set, WotC has fully redeemed themselves in my eyes, though I admit I wasn't that mad at them anyway.
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DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
I would be very very hesitant to call a tabletop role-playing game product presented in a slipcase "a boxed set." There is a distinction to be made there and it is one that is going to become more and more apparent to any reseller who tries to sell these things on the second hand market. A boxed set is like what TSR used to produce. Or even the starter set for many a tabletop role-playing game. A boxed set is what Forbidden Lands is. What Mausritter is. What things like the Lankhmar boxed set for Dungeon Crawl Classics is. Like the old Thieves' World supplement from Chaosium was. These things came and come in boxes. Not in slipcases. There is a difference.
No other TTRPG publisher I know of, including Chaosium, who puts out slipcase sets refers to those sets as boxed sets. I don't believe WotC referred to their prior slip cases of core books or the XGtE/TCoE/MMM slip case as boxed sets. But they call Spelljammer and Planescape boxed sets....
It's weird.
Couple that with the truth that the written content is less than or the equivalent word and page count of single "books", but costs $25 more because of the decision to produce it as three volume slipcase with the attendant packaging ... it's a weird DDB ask for the consumer to pay ~50% markup over the usual cost of a DDB book, since really on DDB Planescape (like Spelljammer) will look identical to any other DDB book (including the to be released at higher physical price points Bigby's and Phandelver books, which haven't gone up despite their physical analog's MSRP) but DDB expects consumers to pay more because the physical analog has been needlessly overpackaged.
I mean Planescape is supposed to be weird, but there were rationales. This is just kinda berked, and to me speaks of poorly thought through product management, or an evolution of what we've seen in that dept over the latter phase of 5e.
It is weird. Pure speculation on my part but it could be a marketing ploy to get people relatively new to the hobby who constantly hear or read about TSR-era boxed sets to think Wizards of the Coast haven't failed to deliver in that regard.
"Needlessly overpackaged" is how I'd describe the slipcase format in general. Nothing wrong with giving people options. But even when I buy a series of novels that have come together in a slipcase I discard the slipcase so any one of those novels can be easily retrieved from the shelf. Because short of that slipcase being properly blocked it is just a cheap way to present something as much fancier than it is.
If Wizards of the Coast are going to provide loose maps and other game aids with their supplements I'd much rather everything be placed in a proper box.
"Needlessly overpackaged" is how I'd describe the slipcase format in general. Nothing wrong with giving people options. But even when I buy a series of novels that have come together in a slipcase I discard the slipcase so any one of those novels can be easily retrieved from the shelf. Because short of that slipcase being properly blocked it is just a cheap way to present something as much fancier than it is.
If Wizards of the Coast are going to provide loose maps and other game aids with their supplements I'd much rather everything be placed in a proper box.
Not sure what you're referring to. If you just mean Planescape and Spelljammer, then sure. But the core rules and expansion sets are great, in my opinion. They make it easier to carry and/or store them, and don't really add to the price (they're effectively a multibuy deal - get all three and you get a slipcase and DM screen for free). The two setting sets just jack up the price though.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
To my mind, that distinction could be described as: A GM screen.
Occasionally a map. Like, Dark Sun had the best map ever. But to be honest, I'd have paid zero monies extra for the map. And, I mean sure, in principle there could be all sortsa things in a boxed set: Extra special dice, a little booklet, character sheets, a small poster of a dragon. But I'd still arrive at: No extra monies from me for any of this.
So to me, a slipcase without extra stuff I don't want and won't pay for is an upgrade.
Not to be pointlessly negative or anything, just to post a counterpoint =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The distinction isn't about what is or is not included in the package but about the packaging: a boxed set throughout the entire history of tabletop role-playing games has meant the product be it a ruleset or a supplement comes in a box. Not just in a slipcase. As MidnightPlat even pointed out: no other publisher of games refers to a ruleset or a supplement they put out that just comes in a slipcase as "a boxed set." Probably not least of all because some of those publishers put out an actual boxed set or two. Maybe also because they figure it would be deceitful to call it such a thing.
And like I said: on the second-hand tabletop role-playing game market no vender is going to use the term "boxed set" to describe what is nothing more than books presented in a slipcase.
I will add: What one prefers is beside the point really. Even if the slipcase format is superior to a boxed set like you believe it is that doesn't make the slipcase format a boxed set. That's the distinction being made in my post. Not whether one is better than the other. Even if I do think one is.
Well, if ... your whole rant there ... was about the box. Then, to be fair, you have a point. A box is not a slipcase, and vice versa. Not sure why that - in and off itself - should matter to you. Slipcases are practical, you can sorta slip the books out without having to remove the lid, dig out the books, all that jazz. You can stick the whole thing on your bookshelf. Really, slipcase is an upgrade.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well, if ... your whole rant there ... was about the box. Then, to be fair, you have a point. A box is not a slipcase, and vice versa. Not sure why that - in and off itself - should matter to you. Slipcases are practical, you can sorta slip the books out without having to remove the lid, dig out the books, all that jazz. You can stick the whole thing on your bookshelf. Really, slipcase is an upgrade.
My "rant" was primarily about how weird it is that Wizards of the Coast are referring to that slipcase format as "a boxed set." I'm glad you see sense enough to agree with me that they are wrong.
When it comes to which is "better" you're entitled to your opinion as much as anyone is entitled to theirs. I've already articulated why I find slipcases to be impractical. Would be even more so if the three books shoved in one were just stapled softcovers like those typically found in a boxed set. You are comparing apples and oranges. Hence why my point hasn't primarily been which is better but what is what.
Something else I've explained is how short of a slipcase being blocked or being buckram or something it is just a cheap way to package something but to charge more for it. I know apologism for corporate greed is de rigueur in these parts but we don't all have to be suckers for it.
When I first heard there was going to be a Planescape box set I was like Hell Yeah, but when I saw (in the D&D Beyond article) what the adventure is going to be about I was like F**K YES! Planescape Torment is possibly the only game that really made me feel like it could easily be a work of High Art (though I personally despise such classifications). I just wonder how exactly the adventure will handle the fact that D&D is played with several people playing several PCs. But just seeing the page count makes me think they learned at least something from the Spelljammer fiasco (though I personally find nothing wrong with that box set, I got my money's worth). Honestly, with The Movie and this box set, WotC has fully redeemed themselves in my eyes, though I admit I wasn't that mad at them anyway.
Honestly, I find that the box set is frustrating and does not improve Planescape at all in my eyes. The main thing it does is raise the prices of both the physical and digital versions of this product, so I'm definitely not grateful for that.
While I am absolutely not preordering this - and may not get it at all depending on how reviewers and individuals I trust on these forums think of it - I totally understand being excited for this book about outer planes, because they're a cool part of the D&D multiverse that hasn't really been explored much... Since, well, 1994 apparently if the Wikipedia article on this is to be trusted.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
I hope that people have at least learned to not pre-order this stuff. There's zero reason or benefit. At least wait and see if it's as lazy and bad as Spelljammer was.
Plus there's almost zero chance that WotC will ever support other settings like Planescape, Spelljammer, Eberron, etc. beyond one release. I think it was this realization a while back that kind of killed my hype for almost anything that they put out. There will be no new supplements for the settings and no new adventures. They just outsource it all to the community.
The only real reason to preorder is for the character sheet backgrounds and possibly the dice. I have to admit I really want those as at least the idea of Planescape is a good one. But yeah: post Spelljammer I don’t think I’d preorder anything from WOTC, any more than I’ll ever preorder something from CD Projekt Red post Cyberpunk.
Plus there's almost zero chance that WotC will ever support other settings like Planescape, Spelljammer, Eberron, etc. beyond one release. I think it was this realization a while back that kind of killed my hype for almost anything that they put out. There will be no new supplements for the settings and no new adventures. They just outsource it all to the community.
You've pretty much summed up why I have become so disenchanted with official D&D.
Planescape in the 90s saw not one but three monster manuals each totaling 128 pages. Each with a higher page count than the one people will be getting this year. The original boxed set was followed by several others including ones presenting comprehensive overviews of the planes: Planes of Chaos, Planes of Law, and Planes of Conflict. You got In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil and The Factol's Manifesto. Many other accessories.
It's like TSR put out a multi-volume Lonely Planet guide to the setting while Wizards of the Coast are offering nothing more than a brochure.
When I first heard there was going to be a Planescape box set I was like Hell Yeah, but when I saw (in the D&D Beyond article) what the adventure is going to be about I was like F**K YES! Planescape Torment is possibly the only game that really made me feel like it could easily be a work of High Art (though I personally despise such classifications). I just wonder how exactly the adventure will handle the fact that D&D is played with several people playing several PCs. But just seeing the page count makes me think they learned at least something from the Spelljammer fiasco (though I personally find nothing wrong with that box set, I got my money's worth). Honestly, with The Movie and this box set, WotC has fully redeemed themselves in my eyes, though I admit I wasn't that mad at them anyway.
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
I would be very very hesitant to call a tabletop role-playing game product presented in a slipcase "a boxed set." There is a distinction to be made there and it is one that is going to become more and more apparent to any reseller who tries to sell these things on the second hand market. A boxed set is like what TSR used to produce. Or even the starter set for many a tabletop role-playing game. A boxed set is what Forbidden Lands is. What Mausritter is. What things like the Lankhmar boxed set for Dungeon Crawl Classics is. Like the old Thieves' World supplement from Chaosium was. These things came and come in boxes. Not in slipcases. There is a difference.
No other TTRPG publisher I know of, including Chaosium, who puts out slipcase sets refers to those sets as boxed sets. I don't believe WotC referred to their prior slip cases of core books or the XGtE/TCoE/MMM slip case as boxed sets. But they call Spelljammer and Planescape boxed sets....
It's weird.
Couple that with the truth that the written content is less than or the equivalent word and page count of single "books", but costs $25 more because of the decision to produce it as three volume slipcase with the attendant packaging ... it's a weird DDB ask for the consumer to pay ~50% markup over the usual cost of a DDB book, since really on DDB Planescape (like Spelljammer) will look identical to any other DDB book (including the to be released at higher physical price points Bigby's and Phandelver books, which haven't gone up despite their physical analog's MSRP) but DDB expects consumers to pay more because the physical analog has been needlessly overpackaged.
I mean Planescape is supposed to be weird, but there were rationales. This is just kinda berked, and to me speaks of poorly thought through product management, or an evolution of what we've seen in that dept over the latter phase of 5e.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It is weird. Pure speculation on my part but it could be a marketing ploy to get people relatively new to the hobby who constantly hear or read about TSR-era boxed sets to think Wizards of the Coast haven't failed to deliver in that regard.
"Needlessly overpackaged" is how I'd describe the slipcase format in general. Nothing wrong with giving people options. But even when I buy a series of novels that have come together in a slipcase I discard the slipcase so any one of those novels can be easily retrieved from the shelf. Because short of that slipcase being properly blocked it is just a cheap way to present something as much fancier than it is.
If Wizards of the Coast are going to provide loose maps and other game aids with their supplements I'd much rather everything be placed in a proper box.
Not sure what you're referring to. If you just mean Planescape and Spelljammer, then sure. But the core rules and expansion sets are great, in my opinion. They make it easier to carry and/or store them, and don't really add to the price (they're effectively a multibuy deal - get all three and you get a slipcase and DM screen for free). The two setting sets just jack up the price though.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
To my mind, that distinction could be described as: A GM screen.
Occasionally a map. Like, Dark Sun had the best map ever. But to be honest, I'd have paid zero monies extra for the map. And, I mean sure, in principle there could be all sortsa things in a boxed set: Extra special dice, a little booklet, character sheets, a small poster of a dragon. But I'd still arrive at: No extra monies from me for any of this.
So to me, a slipcase without extra stuff I don't want and won't pay for is an upgrade.
Not to be pointlessly negative or anything, just to post a counterpoint =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The distinction isn't about what is or is not included in the package but about the packaging: a boxed set throughout the entire history of tabletop role-playing games has meant the product be it a ruleset or a supplement comes in a box. Not just in a slipcase. As MidnightPlat even pointed out: no other publisher of games refers to a ruleset or a supplement they put out that just comes in a slipcase as "a boxed set." Probably not least of all because some of those publishers put out an actual boxed set or two. Maybe also because they figure it would be deceitful to call it such a thing.
And like I said: on the second-hand tabletop role-playing game market no vender is going to use the term "boxed set" to describe what is nothing more than books presented in a slipcase.
I will add: What one prefers is beside the point really. Even if the slipcase format is superior to a boxed set like you believe it is that doesn't make the slipcase format a boxed set. That's the distinction being made in my post. Not whether one is better than the other. Even if I do think one is.
I did say "in general." And gave the example of a series of novels. So I wasn't even necessarily referring to D&D books.
Well, if ... your whole rant there ... was about the box. Then, to be fair, you have a point. A box is not a slipcase, and vice versa. Not sure why that - in and off itself - should matter to you. Slipcases are practical, you can sorta slip the books out without having to remove the lid, dig out the books, all that jazz. You can stick the whole thing on your bookshelf. Really, slipcase is an upgrade.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
My "rant" was primarily about how weird it is that Wizards of the Coast are referring to that slipcase format as "a boxed set." I'm glad you see sense enough to agree with me that they are wrong.
When it comes to which is "better" you're entitled to your opinion as much as anyone is entitled to theirs. I've already articulated why I find slipcases to be impractical. Would be even more so if the three books shoved in one were just stapled softcovers like those typically found in a boxed set. You are comparing apples and oranges. Hence why my point hasn't primarily been which is better but what is what.
Something else I've explained is how short of a slipcase being blocked or being buckram or something it is just a cheap way to package something but to charge more for it. I know apologism for corporate greed is de rigueur in these parts but we don't all have to be suckers for it.
Honestly, I find that the box set is frustrating and does not improve Planescape at all in my eyes. The main thing it does is raise the prices of both the physical and digital versions of this product, so I'm definitely not grateful for that.
While I am absolutely not preordering this - and may not get it at all depending on how reviewers and individuals I trust on these forums think of it - I totally understand being excited for this book about outer planes, because they're a cool part of the D&D multiverse that hasn't really been explored much... Since, well, 1994 apparently if the Wikipedia article on this is to be trusted.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I hope that people have at least learned to not pre-order this stuff. There's zero reason or benefit. At least wait and see if it's as lazy and bad as Spelljammer was.
Plus there's almost zero chance that WotC will ever support other settings like Planescape, Spelljammer, Eberron, etc. beyond one release. I think it was this realization a while back that kind of killed my hype for almost anything that they put out. There will be no new supplements for the settings and no new adventures. They just outsource it all to the community.
The only real reason to preorder is for the character sheet backgrounds and possibly the dice. I have to admit I really want those as at least the idea of Planescape is a good one. But yeah: post Spelljammer I don’t think I’d preorder anything from WOTC, any more than I’ll ever preorder something from CD Projekt Red post Cyberpunk.
You've pretty much summed up why I have become so disenchanted with official D&D.
Planescape in the 90s saw not one but three monster manuals each totaling 128 pages. Each with a higher page count than the one people will be getting this year. The original boxed set was followed by several others including ones presenting comprehensive overviews of the planes: Planes of Chaos, Planes of Law, and Planes of Conflict. You got In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil and The Factol's Manifesto. Many other accessories.
It's like TSR put out a multi-volume Lonely Planet guide to the setting while Wizards of the Coast are offering nothing more than a brochure.
It no longer feels like the same hobby.
Planescape is probably my favourite D&D setting, but there is absolutely no way I'm preordering this after what they did with Spelljammer.
And 50 bucks is, as everyone has noted, a ridiculous amount for a digital product. It's daylight robbery.