Just wondering what people think is the absolute worst subclass in 5E, from any class? I've got my own pick but I want to hear what other people think before sharing it.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I find Beast Master (pre-Tasha's) to be incredibly difficult to justify. Battlerager is pretty egregious as well, though.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Berserker barb is pretty bad. Using your big main feature puts one of the worst status effects on you, and the 10th level feature is built around your barbarian's charisma. Brilliant! That this and Battlerager are so bad is especially disappointing, because that leaves no barbarian subclasses that don't have some form of magical theming to them. I don't want to channel spirits (totem, ancestral guardian), I don't want to be a lycanthrope (beast), and I don't want to be infused with wild magic or whatever other influences. I just want a tough guy who's good at smashing stuff, but the mundane-themed subclasses are crap.
Honorable mention for Arcane Archer on the fighter. You fire two special arrows, and then you effectively have no subclass at all until you take a short rest.
Worst might be what the above have already said, but in terms of lack of impact? Does anyone remember that there's a Purple Dragon Knight fighter subclass? What does that guy even do?
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Thief subclass for the Rogue is considered pretty down there.
oh, i love thief subclass! weak in combat, but a fun dungeoneer. i think i'd be happier with the rest of the game's combat coming down to meet thief rather than buffing thief to be 'competitive' in the damage power-creep race.
worst subclass is nature domain cleric. there might be ways to make this work but it's just so clearly stepping on druid toes. and what really do you get for that? 1min charm animals. capstone is taking that charm, not improving the loss of charm upon any damage, and letting you command them with a bonus action. neat.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
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Circle of land druid isn’t actively bad like the barb subclasses but I have never seen or heard of one in play. There are just better ways to druid. Maybe it belongs on a list of the loneliest subclasses rather than the worst, ha
Circle of land druid isn’t actively bad like the barb subclasses but I have never seen or heard of one in play. There are just better ways to druid. Maybe it belongs on a list of the loneliest subclasses rather than the worst, ha
Circle of the Land is a good subclass, it's just fairly boring.
I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide subclasses are being named here.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Personally I vote for the Path of the Battlerager. It's a really fun idea inspired by one of the best dwarves to ever dwarf Thibbledorf Pwent but as far as mechanics its the worst! Gives you to start an attack with your spikey armor that only does 1d4 of damage and never scales. None of the other features are really worth anything and the capstone feature? When you get attacked with a melee attack within 5 feet you do a whopping 3 damage (if youre raging) All in all just an extremely disappointing subclass.
(So, feel like this post is a bit irrelevant, but I feel like throwing my opinion out there)
Berserker no longer has fatigue, so that's a major buff. Problem is, much shorter rage...
I think that all the classes have relevance, either good roleplaying, good combat, or good money (thief, I'm looking at you.). However, there is one subclass that lacks any of that.
The Bladesinger Wizard.
It's literally, as Tasha/WotC herself said, a College of Swords bard with less health. Honestly, if you want the armor, there is better ways to do it (i.e become a tortle or Lizardfolk). It lacks flair, is rather squishy. If you want a battle wizard, choose War Mage. If you want to be a weird guy that casts spells through his sword, become a College of Swords bard. Either way, it is not fun to play as or unique.
(Sorry went on a bit of a rant there)
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Don't you just love platypuses/platypi/platypodes?
(So, feel like this post is a bit irrelevant, but I feel like throwing my opinion out there)
Berserker no longer has fatigue, so that's a major buff. Problem is, much shorter rage...
I think that all the classes have relevance, either good roleplaying, good combat, or good money (thief, I'm looking at you.). However, there is one subclass that lacks any of that.
The Bladesinger Wizard.
It's literally, as Tasha/WotC herself said, a College of Swords bard with less health. Honestly, if you want the armor, there is better ways to do it (i.e become a tortle or Lizardfolk). It lacks flair, is rather squishy. If you want a battle wizard, choose War Mage. If you want to be a weird guy that casts spells through his sword, become a College of Swords bard. Either way, it is not fun to play as or unique.
(Sorry went on a bit of a rant there)
Have you played a Bladesinger? Whether you have or not, I have, and it is most certainly not the weakest subclass. You only get one fewer hit point per level than a Bard, and the AC will more than make up for that. The AC from Bladesong stacks just fine with both tortle and lizardfolk natural armor, so that point is moot. War Mage isn't really that much of a battle wizard, it's mostly just a combo of abjuration and evocation, and Bard and Wizard are far from interchangeable. I suppose you might not find it fun, but I found zipping around and stabbing guys and casting spells to be a blast.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Actually, I just don't enjoy playing as Bladesingers. They just aren't really that fun for me. I wasn't really saying the were the weakest subclass (I think that would be Scribe Wizard in a world with very few libraries or access to magical knowledge, but that's purely situational.) I was saying it was the worst subclass to play, in context roleplaying and uniqueness. I think Bladesingers are rather strong, actually. Just... not the sort of class I want to play as.
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Don't you just love platypuses/platypi/platypodes?
I've always found the Alchemist artificer to be lacklustre. I understand that they are supposed to be a support character but they take way more of a backseat than any cleric. The potions are generally meh as well.
Though (shameless plug) they were a brilliant foundation for my multiclassing feats publication.
If we're going rules as written, definitely Battlerager and Bladesinger. I actually find the concept of Bladesinger cool, even if they're not that good, but the racial requirements for each make them kind of suck. There's also purple dragon knight (why, like just why) and Arcane Archer (also kind of the question of why). Honorable mention to some of the like default subclasses (Berserker, Way of Open Hand, Hunter, Circle of Land, Champion), these ones aren't bad but are just kind of thematically boring.
If we're going rules as written, definitely Battlerager and Bladesinger. I actually find the concept of Bladesinger cool, even if they're not that good, but the racial requirements for each make them kind of suck. There's also purple dragon knight (why, like just why) and Arcane Archer (also kind of the question of why). Honorable mention to some of the like default subclasses (Berserker, Way of Open Hand, Hunter, Circle of Land, Champion), these ones aren't bad but are just kind of thematically boring.
Luckily, the racial requirement for Bladesinger was removed when it was put into Tasha's. The same can't be said for Battlerager, since it (rightfully) hasn't reappeared since SCAG.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Looking at Bladesinger, and it actually looks pretty good. We're picking up our first campaign again, concluding it with V:EoR, and I'm very tempted to swap subclasses from Evocation to Bladesinging - better AC, strong standard attack, damage reduction and that's compared to my current subclass that gives me...the ability to Fireball without killing my allies.
Evocation isn't bad, but Bladesinging isn't bottom of the pile (post-Tasha's anyway).
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Bladesinger is a solid choice, one of the top tier wizard subclasses and also one of the top gish subclasses. It amazes me to see people think its one of the worst.
In 2024 the Inquisitive Rogue is probably up there.
To fill its role properly, it's multi-ability-dependent (Dex, Int and Wis) and it's main combat feature is Insightful Fighting (3rd level), which lets you use a bonus action to do a contested roll (your Insight vs their Deception), which, if successful, lets you apply sneak attack damage on a hit even if you don't have advantage or an ally beside it. There are many ways to get advantage, including two other Rogue bonus actions - Hide or Steady Aim - Steady Aim was of course added after this class was created. While the minute duration is good, the situations where Insightful Fighting specifically is the only reason why you're getting Sneak Attack are probably pretty rare.
You also get Ear For Deceit (3rd level), which lets you treat a 7 or less on a d20 roll as an 8 specifically when you're trying to spot a lie. That's all it does, and the implication is that you specifically have to call out you're trying to detect a lie. This was already overwritten in 2014 by Reliable Talent at level 11 with no compensation or adjustment, and in 2024 rules, while it's good you get Reliable Talent 4 levels earlier, it now makes that feature half as good. When I hit level 7 Rogue, I'm going to ask my DM to buff it to "treat a 11 or less on a d20 as a 12 when making a check to determine if a creature is lying."
This subclass also gets an additional 3rd level ability, Eye for Detail, which lets you use a bonus action to make a Perception check to spot a hidden creature/object or to Investigation to uncover or decipher clues. Bonus actions only really come into play in combat, making this very situational. In addition, there is some redundancy with the 2024 Observant Feat, which lets you take a Search Action as a bonus action. I've just translated Eye for Detail into that (and the Investigation part).
The higher level features are a bit better, but still situational, and only at 17th level do you get another combat-applicable one.
Guess what character I'm playing as in a new campaign, by choice? (I make good decisions!) It's fine, I rolled good stats, but even so am probably going to spend an ASI on Wisdom later on to get it from 14 to 16.
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Just wondering what people think is the absolute worst subclass in 5E, from any class? I've got my own pick but I want to hear what other people think before sharing it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I find Beast Master (pre-Tasha's) to be incredibly difficult to justify. Battlerager is pretty egregious as well, though.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Berserker barb is pretty bad. Using your big main feature puts one of the worst status effects on you, and the 10th level feature is built around your barbarian's charisma. Brilliant! That this and Battlerager are so bad is especially disappointing, because that leaves no barbarian subclasses that don't have some form of magical theming to them. I don't want to channel spirits (totem, ancestral guardian), I don't want to be a lycanthrope (beast), and I don't want to be infused with wild magic or whatever other influences. I just want a tough guy who's good at smashing stuff, but the mundane-themed subclasses are crap.
Honorable mention for Arcane Archer on the fighter. You fire two special arrows, and then you effectively have no subclass at all until you take a short rest.
Worst might be what the above have already said, but in terms of lack of impact? Does anyone remember that there's a Purple Dragon Knight fighter subclass? What does that guy even do?
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
My personal choice is the Pact of the Undying Warlock. Its abilities are so weak that it's basically a Warlock without a pact.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
oh, i love thief subclass! weak in combat, but a fun dungeoneer. i think i'd be happier with the rest of the game's combat coming down to meet thief rather than buffing thief to be 'competitive' in the damage power-creep race.
worst subclass is nature domain cleric. there might be ways to make this work but it's just so clearly stepping on druid toes. and what really do you get for that? 1min charm animals. capstone is taking that charm, not improving the loss of charm upon any damage, and letting you command them with a bonus action. neat.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Circle of land druid isn’t actively bad like the barb subclasses but I have never seen or heard of one in play. There are just better ways to druid. Maybe it belongs on a list of the loneliest subclasses rather than the worst, ha
Circle of the Land is a good subclass, it's just fairly boring.
I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide subclasses are being named here.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Personally I vote for the Path of the Battlerager. It's a really fun idea inspired by one of the best dwarves to ever dwarf Thibbledorf Pwent but as far as mechanics its the worst! Gives you to start an attack with your spikey armor that only does 1d4 of damage and never scales. None of the other features are really worth anything and the capstone feature? When you get attacked with a melee attack within 5 feet you do a whopping 3 damage (if youre raging) All in all just an extremely disappointing subclass.
(So, feel like this post is a bit irrelevant, but I feel like throwing my opinion out there)
Berserker no longer has fatigue, so that's a major buff. Problem is, much shorter rage...
I think that all the classes have relevance, either good roleplaying, good combat, or good money (thief, I'm looking at you.). However, there is one subclass that lacks any of that.
The Bladesinger Wizard.
It's literally, as Tasha/WotC herself said, a College of Swords bard with less health. Honestly, if you want the armor, there is better ways to do it (i.e become a tortle or Lizardfolk). It lacks flair, is rather squishy. If you want a battle wizard, choose War Mage. If you want to be a weird guy that casts spells through his sword, become a College of Swords bard. Either way, it is not fun to play as or unique.
(Sorry went on a bit of a rant there)
Don't you just love platypuses/platypi/platypodes?
-Literally everyone ever
Proud member of the EVIL JEFF CULT! PRAISE JEFF!
Homebrew Races: HERE Homebrew Spells: HERE Homebrew Monsters: HERE
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Have you played a Bladesinger? Whether you have or not, I have, and it is most certainly not the weakest subclass. You only get one fewer hit point per level than a Bard, and the AC will more than make up for that. The AC from Bladesong stacks just fine with both tortle and lizardfolk natural armor, so that point is moot. War Mage isn't really that much of a battle wizard, it's mostly just a combo of abjuration and evocation, and Bard and Wizard are far from interchangeable. I suppose you might not find it fun, but I found zipping around and stabbing guys and casting spells to be a blast.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The difference in HP between a bard and a wizard is, on average, a mere 1+level. Which rarely adds up to more than a single hit's worth of damage.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Actually, I just don't enjoy playing as Bladesingers. They just aren't really that fun for me. I wasn't really saying the were the weakest subclass (I think that would be Scribe Wizard in a world with very few libraries or access to magical knowledge, but that's purely situational.) I was saying it was the worst subclass to play, in context roleplaying and uniqueness. I think Bladesingers are rather strong, actually. Just... not the sort of class I want to play as.
Don't you just love platypuses/platypi/platypodes?
-Literally everyone ever
Proud member of the EVIL JEFF CULT! PRAISE JEFF!
Homebrew Races: HERE Homebrew Spells: HERE Homebrew Monsters: HERE
My trophy that I stole- I mean, won, in Last Comment Wins! (For realz this time):🏆
I've always found the Alchemist artificer to be lacklustre. I understand that they are supposed to be a support character but they take way more of a backseat than any cleric. The potions are generally meh as well.
Though (shameless plug) they were a brilliant foundation for my multiclassing feats publication.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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If we're going rules as written, definitely Battlerager and Bladesinger. I actually find the concept of Bladesinger cool, even if they're not that good, but the racial requirements for each make them kind of suck. There's also purple dragon knight (why, like just why) and Arcane Archer (also kind of the question of why). Honorable mention to some of the like default subclasses (Berserker, Way of Open Hand, Hunter, Circle of Land, Champion), these ones aren't bad but are just kind of thematically boring.
Hi Chat
Luckily, the racial requirement for Bladesinger was removed when it was put into Tasha's. The same can't be said for Battlerager, since it (rightfully) hasn't reappeared since SCAG.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Purple dragon knight
Looking at Bladesinger, and it actually looks pretty good. We're picking up our first campaign again, concluding it with V:EoR, and I'm very tempted to swap subclasses from Evocation to Bladesinging - better AC, strong standard attack, damage reduction and that's compared to my current subclass that gives me...the ability to Fireball without killing my allies.
Evocation isn't bad, but Bladesinging isn't bottom of the pile (post-Tasha's anyway).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Bladesinger is a solid choice, one of the top tier wizard subclasses and also one of the top gish subclasses. It amazes me to see people think its one of the worst.
In 2024 the Inquisitive Rogue is probably up there.
To fill its role properly, it's multi-ability-dependent (Dex, Int and Wis) and it's main combat feature is Insightful Fighting (3rd level), which lets you use a bonus action to do a contested roll (your Insight vs their Deception), which, if successful, lets you apply sneak attack damage on a hit even if you don't have advantage or an ally beside it. There are many ways to get advantage, including two other Rogue bonus actions - Hide or Steady Aim - Steady Aim was of course added after this class was created. While the minute duration is good, the situations where Insightful Fighting specifically is the only reason why you're getting Sneak Attack are probably pretty rare.
You also get Ear For Deceit (3rd level), which lets you treat a 7 or less on a d20 roll as an 8 specifically when you're trying to spot a lie. That's all it does, and the implication is that you specifically have to call out you're trying to detect a lie. This was already overwritten in 2014 by Reliable Talent at level 11 with no compensation or adjustment, and in 2024 rules, while it's good you get Reliable Talent 4 levels earlier, it now makes that feature half as good. When I hit level 7 Rogue, I'm going to ask my DM to buff it to "treat a 11 or less on a d20 as a 12 when making a check to determine if a creature is lying."
This subclass also gets an additional 3rd level ability, Eye for Detail, which lets you use a bonus action to make a Perception check to spot a hidden creature/object or to Investigation to uncover or decipher clues. Bonus actions only really come into play in combat, making this very situational. In addition, there is some redundancy with the 2024 Observant Feat, which lets you take a Search Action as a bonus action. I've just translated Eye for Detail into that (and the Investigation part).
The higher level features are a bit better, but still situational, and only at 17th level do you get another combat-applicable one.
Guess what character I'm playing as in a new campaign, by choice? (I make good decisions!) It's fine, I rolled good stats, but even so am probably going to spend an ASI on Wisdom later on to get it from 14 to 16.