We must assume they meant to do things this way. It's too deliberately constructed.
No we mustn't. The simplest explanation is that the current D&D team is bad at writing rules.
They are, but this isn't how they're bad. They're sloppy. They use overly informal language. 2024 is a lot better than 2014, but the tendencies persist.
The lack of any mention of both hands in the two-weapon-fighting rules is not sloppy. It's in four different places (which was certainly a choice), and nowhere in there do they ever mention a second hand. Except for the Nick Ambiguity, these rules are carefully constructed. (And poorly organized.)
Due to that lack, and the much more flexible weapon-swapping rules, they were trying to enable weird weapon tricks.
They are, but this isn't how they're bad. They're sloppy.
This is an example of sloppiness. They just don't fully consider what they're writing. Yes, they wrote the same bad rules in multiple places, but that doesn't mean it isn't sloppy -- the problem is mental sloppiness, not verbal sloppiness.
Now let's add a fighter lvl to this wizard, bringing nick mastery and TWFS, but no dual wielder feat He will be able to make 1 attack with both weapons thanks to nick, 1 extra attack with bonus damage, and 1 bonus action attack with bonus damage thanks to the fighting style. Damage wise : 2*(1D6+Y) / 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y Do you agree?
No. If you use Nick to make the Light property's attack as part of the Attack action, you can no longer use your bonus action to make that attack.
Ok, can you confirm I now have in this situation (still without dual wielder feat) :
1 attack with vex weapon, 1 bonus action attack as part of this attack thanks to nick, 1 extra attack with bonus damage, no bonus action attack Damage wise : 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y
Not totally sure if the nick "bonus action now part of the first attack" can have the ability modifier, but it should thanks to TWFS. Can you confirm ? Also, can I still use a bonus action for other purposes (like misty step) ? (probably not, but to confirm)
dual wielder feat : still not sure, as the "bonus action attack" is now part of the nick attack, that you can use "another" bonus action attack. Can you confirm ? - If yes, can I use this bonus action for something different than an attack (like misty step) ? - If yes, would it be with ability modifier thanks to TWFS ?
This thread gives me a headache. Or, more accurately, the apparent lack of good writing and design that inspired this thread gives me a headache.
There should be a clear, full description of how using two weapons in combat works in the game, including examples that use feats, mastery, etc.
Yes, yes there should.
I know how this likely happened -- they needed to supersede all the old bits and pieces because otherwise they'd still exist. They also wanted weapon masteries to be involved, because it's an obvious choice. Even putting the baseline thing into the Light property makes sense, since ultimately having a light weapon is the enabler.
But when they were doing the design, it was all in one place. They then parceled each bit out into the appropriate place for it.
It's less a failure of rules design than of rules writing. Which has been a constant weak point throughout 5e's life.
There should've been a rules glossary entry for "off-hand attack" or something, and have all these various abilities refer to it. It wouldn't trivially fix everything, but it lets you centralize the rules to a large extent.
Now let's add a fighter lvl to this wizard, bringing nick mastery and TWFS, but no dual wielder feat He will be able to make 1 attack with both weapons thanks to nick, 1 extra attack with bonus damage, and 1 bonus action attack with bonus damage thanks to the fighting style. Damage wise : 2*(1D6+Y) / 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y Do you agree?
No. If you use Nick to make the Light property's attack as part of the Attack action, you can no longer use your bonus action to make that attack.
Ok, can you confirm I now have in this situation (still without dual wielder feat) :
1 attack with vex weapon, 1 bonus action attack as part of this attack thanks to nick, 1 extra attack with bonus damage, no bonus action attack Damage wise : 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y
I can't tell whether you're correct, partly because I'm not sure what scenario you're describing.
If this is a character with Two-weapon fighting, and Extra attack, and Nick mastery, and they are attacking first with a light weapon, then:
First attack: yes
Nick attack: it is not a bonus action attack, because it is not made as a bonus action. It's just another attack you can make as part of your attack.
Extra attack: yes
Lack of bonus action attack: yes
For extra confusion: Whether it's the initial attack with a light weapon that needs to have Nick, or it's the second weapon used to make additional Nick attack that has to, is not actually defined in the rules. My opinion is it should be the second weapon, but ask your DM.
Not totally sure if the nick "bonus action now part of the first attack" can have the ability modifier, but it should thanks to TWFS. Can you confirm ?
Yes. That's what two-weapon fighting does.
Also, can I still use a bonus action for other purposes (like misty step) ? (probably not, but to confirm)
You can. The whole point of Nick is that it makes the attack not cost a bonus action.
dual wielder feat : still not sure, as the "bonus action attack" is now part of the nick attack, that you can use "another" bonus action attack. Can you confirm ? - If yes, can I use this bonus action for something different than an attack (like misty step) ? - If yes, would it be with ability modifier thanks to TWFS ?
See above. The Nick attack does not cost a bonus action, so you can use the bonus action to do something else, which could be to use the bonus action attack from DW. It would get the bonus due to TWF.
I'll repeat my summary from my previous post:
Just Light: Normal light attack, bonus action attack with different light weapon
Light with DW: Normal light attack, bonus action attack with different, possibly heavier weapon
Light with Nick: Normal light attack, additional attack with different light weapon as part of the same action. Bonus action unused.
Light, Nick, and DW: Normal light attack, additional attack with different light weapon as part of the same action, and bonus action attack with possibly heavier weapon that cannot be the first-used weapon
In all the above cases, the attacks beyond the initial one do not get the stat bonus.
Two-weapon Fighting Style: This allows you to add your stat bonus to the damage of the attacks you get from both Light (with or without Nick) and Dual Wielder.
For context, I'm playing a bladesinger 6, and intend to pick a level in fighter. Until your last post, the only difference I could see, was the ability modifier added to the bonus action damage. Now I understand that my bonus action is still free for a non-attack (potion or ba spell), so it's a substantial advantage for a wizard.
Dual wielder feat would allow me to weaponize back my bonus action, but I would probably not pick it, as I already picked another half-feat at lvl 4 (resilient dex), and cannot change.
I will probably use shadow blade (lvl3) instead of a short blade (count as a light weapon), so no vex attack. Here is what a round would look like : 1/ scimitar nick attack 1D6+4 with booming blade 1D8 2/ shadow blade attack 3D8+4 as part of the nick attack (only if 1/ is a success) 3/ shadow blade extra attack 3D8+4 4/ bonus action free for potion, misty step, activating bladesong, or others. I would probably start by this bonus action before attacking.
Correct me if something is wrong, but I think it's all good.
For context, I'm playing a bladesinger 6, and intend to pick a level in fighter. Until your last post, the only difference I could see, was the ability modifier added to the bonus action damage. Now I understand that my bonus action is still free for a non-attack (potion or ba spell), so it's a substantial advantage for a wizard.
Dual wielder feat would allow me to weaponize back my bonus action, but I would probably not pick it, as I already picked another half-feat at lvl 4 (resilient dex), and cannot change.
I will probably use shadow blade (lvl3) instead of a short blade (count as a light weapon), so no vex attack. Here is what a round would look like : 1/ scimitar nick attack 1D6+4 with booming blade 1D8 2/ shadow blade attack 3D8+4 as part of the nick attack (only if 1/ is a success) 3/ shadow blade extra attack 3D8+4 4/ bonus action free for potion, misty step, activating bladesong, or others. I would probably start by this bonus action before attacking.
Correct me if something is wrong, but I think it's all good.
Thanks again, I was lost in translations ;)
There are two things:
You get the Light/Nick additional attack regardless of whether your attack #1 was a success. Unless the spell is countered, you make the first attack
Check with your DM about their interpretation of which attack needs to be with the Nick weapon. I would not allow this, because I believe the additional attack needs to be the one with the Nick weapon. But that is something undefined in the rules, so your DM may agree with you.
Ok, thanks for the precisions. If I have to switch the action, it doesn't change much... well in fact it's better as I would probably have an advantage in dark/dim on shadow blade, and the nick is part of the same attack. If I understand that correctly, I don't reroll the dice for the nick attack ?
1/ shadow blade attack 3D8+4 with booming blade 1D8 (allowed by my gm) 2/ scimitar nick attackon the same roll 1D6+4 3/ shadow blade extra attack 3D8+4 4/ bonus action which can't be an attack
Ok, thanks for the precisions. If I have to switch the action, it doesn't change much... well in fact it's better as I would probably have an advantage in dark/dim on shadow blade, and the nick is part of the same attack. If I understand that correctly, I don't reroll the dice for the nick attack ?
1/ shadow blade attack 3D8+4 with booming blade 1D8 (allowed by my gm) 2/ scimitar nick attack on the same roll 1D6+4 3/ shadow blade extra attack 3D8+4 4/ bonus action which can't be an attack
It is part of the Attack action, it is not the same attack. The Attack action is not the same thing as an attack.
Normally, you take the Attack action:
You make one attack
Because you have Extra attack from your class, you can take a second attack
Because of Light and Nick, once you've attacked with a light weapon, you get to insert a third attack in there, but it's still its own attack, with its own attack roll.
Great summary, and aligns with how I've understood it. The only thing that still bugs me is the reasoning (or lack thereof) why we can't use two non-light weapons with twf. Begs to question, "what are they afraid of?" That someone might deal 1-2 (2-4 with critical) points more damage per hit with that other weapon? I would be perfectly fine if that (excluded) option excluded Nick property.
With that said, I'm willing to let that slide and at least try playing with these facts. (No promises on trying to homebrew it back, though!)
I think it's not so much about stopping it as it is that, once they've decided to anchor it to the Light property, it becomes impossible to make it work with two non-light weapons.
Seems like this thread has mostly reached a consensus that the BA attack you get from the Light property and the BA attack you get from the Dual Wielder feat are different benefits that arise from the same trigger - i.e., using a Light weapon to Attack. Which I agree with, and I also agree the TWF fighting style is worded to grant the damage bonus to both of those attacks. But I question something a lot of people above are saying in passing (including that YT video) when they look at the interaction with the Nick mastery property. Namely, that you need to be using a Nick weapon to "open up" your BA to make use of the Dual Wielder BA attack. In other words, if you use another Light weapon, but it does not have Nick, you can't benefit from the BA attack granted by Dual Wielder. I dont know about that.
Sticking with Light weapons, I think a 4th level character with the Dual Wielder feat can hold two short swords and attack 3 times. Once with her Action and twice with her BA. The Light property on her first short sward attack gives her "one extra attack as a BA" and the Dual Wielder feat gives her "one extra attack as a BA." Why wouldn't that result in two "extra attacks" as her BA? The mainline martial feature at level 5 is literally called Extra Attack and stacks up more attacks into a single Action. The rules seem to contemplate the same thing happening in this character's BA if she takes the Dual Wielder feat and sticks to Light weapons. The benefit of using a Nick weapon is not an extra attack AND flexibility - it is just flexibility, which is still a useful benefit. i.e., in exchange for attacking twice in her BA with a short sword (Vex+Vex), she gets the option to use her BA for something else but preserve one of those extra BA attacks, now without Vex, by moving it to her Action.
Anyone disagree? This seems to be a better balance between the weapons and weapon masteries. It also makes Duel Wielder more useful with different weapon combinations. Otherwise, Dual Wielder + Nick + TWF is easily the best option for two weapon damage output and a scimitar is very clearly better than other options like short sword, hand axe. (I dont think there is a way to rescue Dual Wielder's "non-Light weapon" option from being blatantly worse than using another Light weapon).
Seems like this thread has mostly reached a consensus that the BA attack you get from the Light property and the BA attack you get from the Dual Wielder feat are different benefits that arise from the same trigger - i.e., using a Light weapon to Attack. Which I agree with, and I also agree the TWF fighting style is worded to grant the damage bonus to both of those attacks. But I question something a lot of people above are saying in passing (including that YT video) when they look at the interaction with the Nick mastery property. Namely, that you need to be using a Nick weapon to "open up" your BA to make use of the Dual Wielder BA attack. In other words, if you use another Light weapon, but it does not have Nick, you can't benefit from the BA attack granted by Dual Wielder. I dont know about that.
Sticking with Light weapons, I think a 4th level character with the Dual Wielder feat can hold two short swords and attack 3 times. Once with her Action and twice with her BA.
No.
Each of the two abilities (Light and DW) give you the option to take an attack as your bonus action. They are two separate abilities, and there is no rule that says they can be combined, so they cannot be combined. It's no different from having two bonus action spells prepared.
So the main argument is, which what brought me here to also question, basically is
Player has Dual wielder feat, has access to Nick weapon mastery. Has access to extra attack of level 5:
1st regular attack > 2nd attack from extra attack > 3rd Attack as part of the attack from Nick mastery > 4th Bonus action attack from Dual wielder feat
Except we can never be %100 sure because as stated,
Mastery: Nick. When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn. And We don't knowfor sure if "You can make this extra attack only once per turn" part of the ruling takes away your ability make an extra attack even with dual wielder.
This is stupid either way, everyone is right in the argument, on the one hand we have an entire feat dedicated to it so it feels worth the cost, therefore viable
on the other hand, interaction of rulings we have is extremely unclear and makes people feel like power gaming to stretch the rules. Smh.
And if not, this feat basically just allows you to use one slightly bigger weapon, which isn't worth much at all.
Mastery: Nick. When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn. And We don't knowfor sure if "You can make this extra attack only once per turn" part of the ruling takes away your ability make an extra attack even with dual wielder.
Is the extra attack of dual wielder the "extra attack of the light property"?
No. It is a separate ability, that triggers when you attack with a light weapon.
If it were intended to just modify the attack you already get from Light, it would be phrased like Nick is. Something like "when you make the extra attack of the light property, you may use any weapon that isn't heavy or two-handed". It's not.
To explain the Nick property, we should briefly cover that being able to attack twice while dual-wielding Light weapons has subtly changed in the 2024 Player’s Handbook. Instead of being covered under Melee Attacks, the rules for dual-wielding Light weapons are covered under the Light weapon property.
It still functions the same way: When you make an attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can use a Bonus Action to make one attack with a different Light weapon you’re wielding.
The Nick mastery property allows you to make the additional attack you receive from wielding two Light weapons as part of the initial attack action.
Keep in mind that this doesn’t mean you can make a third attack as a Bonus Action, as the Light property specifies you only get one extra attack. But, while it may not pump your damage, this frees up your Bonus Action to use class/species abilities, such as the Rogue’s Cunning Action, while still getting an additional attack in.
So while a strict application of the 2024 RAW allows for four attacks, it's clear that this is NOT the intention.
To explain the Nick property, we should briefly cover that being able to attack twice while dual-wielding Light weapons has subtly changed in the 2024 Player’s Handbook. Instead of being covered under Melee Attacks, the rules for dual-wielding Light weapons are covered under the Light weapon property.
It still functions the same way: When you make an attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can use a Bonus Action to make one attack with a different Light weapon you’re wielding.
The Nick mastery property allows you to make the additional attack you receive from wielding two Light weapons as part of the initial attack action.
Keep in mind that this doesn’t mean you can make a third attack as a Bonus Action, as the Light property specifies you only get one extra attack. But, while it may not pump your damage, this frees up your Bonus Action to use class/species abilities, such as the Rogue’s Cunning Action, while still getting an additional attack in.
So while a strict application of the 2024 RAW allows for four attacks, it's clear that this is NOT the intention.
Is Bernier DDB or part of the D&D Dev team? If he's the former then his article wouldn't establish RAI (nor how it interacts with Dual Wielder, the topic of the thread - since he's talking about Nick by itself, not how it combines with other things). Even if he is a Dev...that just clashes with Crawford's comments saying that it is RAI.
Hence it just highlights the need for an actual ruling rather than what we've reasoned out.
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No we mustn't. The simplest explanation is that the current D&D team is bad at writing rules.
They are, but this isn't how they're bad. They're sloppy. They use overly informal language. 2024 is a lot better than 2014, but the tendencies persist.
The lack of any mention of both hands in the two-weapon-fighting rules is not sloppy. It's in four different places (which was certainly a choice), and nowhere in there do they ever mention a second hand. Except for the Nick Ambiguity, these rules are carefully constructed. (And poorly organized.)
Due to that lack, and the much more flexible weapon-swapping rules, they were trying to enable weird weapon tricks.
This is an example of sloppiness. They just don't fully consider what they're writing. Yes, they wrote the same bad rules in multiple places, but that doesn't mean it isn't sloppy -- the problem is mental sloppiness, not verbal sloppiness.
Ok, can you confirm I now have in this situation (still without dual wielder feat) :
1 attack with vex weapon, 1 bonus action attack as part of this attack thanks to nick, 1 extra attack with bonus damage, no bonus action attack
Damage wise : 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y / 1D6+Y
Not totally sure if the nick "bonus action now part of the first attack" can have the ability modifier, but it should thanks to TWFS. Can you confirm ?
Also, can I still use a bonus action for other purposes (like misty step) ? (probably not, but to confirm)
dual wielder feat : still not sure, as the "bonus action attack" is now part of the nick attack, that you can use "another" bonus action attack. Can you confirm ?
- If yes, can I use this bonus action for something different than an attack (like misty step) ?
- If yes, would it be with ability modifier thanks to TWFS ?
Thanks for your help.
This thread gives me a headache. Or, more accurately, the apparent lack of good writing and design that inspired this thread gives me a headache.
There should be a clear, full description of how using two weapons in combat works in the game, including examples that use feats, mastery, etc.
This feels like something almost deliberately written so that it starts bitter fights at the gaming table.
Yes, yes there should.
I know how this likely happened -- they needed to supersede all the old bits and pieces because otherwise they'd still exist. They also wanted weapon masteries to be involved, because it's an obvious choice. Even putting the baseline thing into the Light property makes sense, since ultimately having a light weapon is the enabler.
But when they were doing the design, it was all in one place. They then parceled each bit out into the appropriate place for it.
It's less a failure of rules design than of rules writing. Which has been a constant weak point throughout 5e's life.
There should've been a rules glossary entry for "off-hand attack" or something, and have all these various abilities refer to it. It wouldn't trivially fix everything, but it lets you centralize the rules to a large extent.
I can't tell whether you're correct, partly because I'm not sure what scenario you're describing.
If this is a character with Two-weapon fighting, and Extra attack, and Nick mastery, and they are attacking first with a light weapon, then:
For extra confusion: Whether it's the initial attack with a light weapon that needs to have Nick, or it's the second weapon used to make additional Nick attack that has to, is not actually defined in the rules. My opinion is it should be the second weapon, but ask your DM.
Yes. That's what two-weapon fighting does.
You can. The whole point of Nick is that it makes the attack not cost a bonus action.
See above. The Nick attack does not cost a bonus action, so you can use the bonus action to do something else, which could be to use the bonus action attack from DW. It would get the bonus due to TWF.
I'll repeat my summary from my previous post:
Just Light: Normal light attack, bonus action attack with different light weapon
Light with DW: Normal light attack, bonus action attack with different, possibly heavier weapon
Light with Nick: Normal light attack, additional attack with different light weapon as part of the same action. Bonus action unused.
Light, Nick, and DW: Normal light attack, additional attack with different light weapon as part of the same action, and bonus action attack with possibly heavier weapon that cannot be the first-used weapon
In all the above cases, the attacks beyond the initial one do not get the stat bonus.
Two-weapon Fighting Style: This allows you to add your stat bonus to the damage of the attacks you get from both Light (with or without Nick) and Dual Wielder.
@jl8e : thanks you very much !!
For context, I'm playing a bladesinger 6, and intend to pick a level in fighter. Until your last post, the only difference I could see, was the ability modifier added to the bonus action damage.
Now I understand that my bonus action is still free for a non-attack (potion or ba spell), so it's a substantial advantage for a wizard.
Dual wielder feat would allow me to weaponize back my bonus action, but I would probably not pick it, as I already picked another half-feat at lvl 4 (resilient dex), and cannot change.
I will probably use shadow blade (lvl3) instead of a short blade (count as a light weapon), so no vex attack. Here is what a round would look like :
1/ scimitar nick attack 1D6+4 with booming blade 1D8
2/ shadow blade attack 3D8+4 as part of the nick attack
(only if 1/ is a success)3/ shadow blade extra attack 3D8+4
4/ bonus action free for potion, misty step, activating bladesong, or others. I would probably start by this bonus action before attacking.
Correct me if something is wrong, but I think it's all good.
Thanks again, I was lost in translations ;)
There are two things:
Ok, thanks for the precisions. If I have to switch the action, it doesn't change much...
well in fact it's better as I would probably have an advantage in dark/dim on shadow blade, and the nick is part of the same attack. If I understand that correctly, I don't reroll the dice for the nick attack ?1/ shadow blade attack 3D8+4 with booming blade 1D8 (allowed by my gm)
2/ scimitar nick attack
on the same roll1D6+43/ shadow blade extra attack 3D8+4
4/ bonus action which can't be an attack
It is part of the Attack action, it is not the same attack. The Attack action is not the same thing as an attack.
Normally, you take the Attack action:
Because of Light and Nick, once you've attacked with a light weapon, you get to insert a third attack in there, but it's still its own attack, with its own attack roll.
Ok thanks again for your incredible explanation. Providing examples help clearing any wording confusion.
I'm unsure if I will pick a fighter lvl, because we already have a fighter+sorcerer in the group, but this will help me make an educated decision ;)
Great summary, and aligns with how I've understood it. The only thing that still bugs me is the reasoning (or lack thereof) why we can't use two non-light weapons with twf. Begs to question, "what are they afraid of?" That someone might deal 1-2 (2-4 with critical) points more damage per hit with that other weapon? I would be perfectly fine if that (excluded) option excluded Nick property.
With that said, I'm willing to let that slide and at least try playing with these facts. (No promises on trying to homebrew it back, though!)
I think it's not so much about stopping it as it is that, once they've decided to anchor it to the Light property, it becomes impossible to make it work with two non-light weapons.
Seems like this thread has mostly reached a consensus that the BA attack you get from the Light property and the BA attack you get from the Dual Wielder feat are different benefits that arise from the same trigger - i.e., using a Light weapon to Attack. Which I agree with, and I also agree the TWF fighting style is worded to grant the damage bonus to both of those attacks. But I question something a lot of people above are saying in passing (including that YT video) when they look at the interaction with the Nick mastery property. Namely, that you need to be using a Nick weapon to "open up" your BA to make use of the Dual Wielder BA attack. In other words, if you use another Light weapon, but it does not have Nick, you can't benefit from the BA attack granted by Dual Wielder. I dont know about that.
Sticking with Light weapons, I think a 4th level character with the Dual Wielder feat can hold two short swords and attack 3 times. Once with her Action and twice with her BA. The Light property on her first short sward attack gives her "one extra attack as a BA" and the Dual Wielder feat gives her "one extra attack as a BA." Why wouldn't that result in two "extra attacks" as her BA? The mainline martial feature at level 5 is literally called Extra Attack and stacks up more attacks into a single Action. The rules seem to contemplate the same thing happening in this character's BA if she takes the Dual Wielder feat and sticks to Light weapons. The benefit of using a Nick weapon is not an extra attack AND flexibility - it is just flexibility, which is still a useful benefit. i.e., in exchange for attacking twice in her BA with a short sword (Vex+Vex), she gets the option to use her BA for something else but preserve one of those extra BA attacks, now without Vex, by moving it to her Action.
Anyone disagree? This seems to be a better balance between the weapons and weapon masteries. It also makes Duel Wielder more useful with different weapon combinations. Otherwise, Dual Wielder + Nick + TWF is easily the best option for two weapon damage output and a scimitar is very clearly better than other options like short sword, hand axe. (I dont think there is a way to rescue Dual Wielder's "non-Light weapon" option from being blatantly worse than using another Light weapon).
No.
Each of the two abilities (Light and DW) give you the option to take an attack as your bonus action. They are two separate abilities, and there is no rule that says they can be combined, so they cannot be combined. It's no different from having two bonus action spells prepared.
So the main argument is, which what brought me here to also question, basically is
Player has Dual wielder feat, has access to Nick weapon mastery. Has access to extra attack of level 5:
1st regular attack > 2nd attack from extra attack > 3rd Attack as part of the attack from Nick mastery > 4th Bonus action attack from Dual wielder feat
Except we can never be %100 sure because as stated,
Mastery: Nick. When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn. And We don't know for sure if "You can make this extra attack only once per turn" part of the ruling takes away your ability make an extra attack even with dual wielder.
This is stupid either way, everyone is right in the argument, on the one hand we have an entire feat dedicated to it so it feels worth the cost, therefore viable
on the other hand, interaction of rulings we have is extremely unclear and makes people feel like power gaming to stretch the rules. Smh.
And if not, this feat basically just allows you to use one slightly bigger weapon, which isn't worth much at all.
Is the extra attack of dual wielder the "extra attack of the light property"?
No. It is a separate ability, that triggers when you attack with a light weapon.
If it were intended to just modify the attack you already get from Light, it would be phrased like Nick is. Something like "when you make the extra attack of the light property, you may use any weapon that isn't heavy or two-handed". It's not.
I don't think this has been part of this specific thread:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1742-your-guide-to-weapon-mastery-in-the-2024-players
Relevant section quoted below, emphasis mine:
So while a strict application of the 2024 RAW allows for four attacks, it's clear that this is NOT the intention.
Is Bernier DDB or part of the D&D Dev team? If he's the former then his article wouldn't establish RAI (nor how it interacts with Dual Wielder, the topic of the thread - since he's talking about Nick by itself, not how it combines with other things). Even if he is a Dev...that just clashes with Crawford's comments saying that it is RAI.
Hence it just highlights the need for an actual ruling rather than what we've reasoned out.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.