Hi all. Brand new to D&D 5e, and curious to hear thoughts on worthy Paladin spells?
I just completed my first battle (level 7, joined late), which was an epic boss fight. And for my money it seemed like Bless was worth its weight in gold. I'm curious to try other spells, but many require concentration and thus compete with Bless.
Bless affects at least 3 party members, and helps both attack & save bonuses. So that’s at least 3 x 2 1d4 of bonus. Also Bless both addresses a weakness Paladins seem to have (boosting hit rate) and protects its own concentration checks. Tough to compete with that I feel.
I haven't looked too closely at the new version of the Paladin, but at least with the 2014e version, there was a saying that if you weren't using your Paladin spell slots to Smite, you were doing it wrong. While I'm hesitant to say that there is a right or wrong way to play, but there's some truth to it - it's hard to beat Smites for good uses if spell slots.
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Linklite about summed it up. I played an pally through level 13 or 14, about the only spell I cast was find steed. The one exception was I had an ancients paladin, so I used misty step sometimes.
Smites are the best for pure DPR, which doesn't mean you need to devote every single slot exclusively to them. Tossing out a buff spell at the opening of a major fight is a decent tactic. Bless covers a lot of targets and gives solid boosts, Heroism is good for boosting the staying power of a particular player (upcasting it is less desirable on half-casters). Divine Favor is good for trying to stretch a spell slot between a bunch of mobs. Shield of Faith has a 10 minute duration, so it also can have a lot of stretch. Compelled Duel and Warding Bond are good for trying to help cover other players.
Yeah Find Steed is one that looks way cool that’s not concentration. And Aid as well. Heroism and Shield of Faith give clear boosts, but since they are concentration, I went with Bless in this my first fight. And it saved our biscuits.
My Pally is also an Ancients, so Misty Step gives rare mobility. But beyond that, there are only so many spell slots per level. And yeah Smites are a thing.
I spent most of the fight Blessing and healing folks and covering them with my Auras. Which was needed. We barely survived.
Smites are the best for pure DPR, which doesn't mean you need to devote every single slot exclusively to them. Tossing out a buff spell at the opening of a major fight is a decent tactic. Bless covers a lot of targets and gives solid boosts, Heroism is good for boosting the staying power of a particular player (upcasting it is less desirable on half-casters). Divine Favor is good for trying to stretch a spell slot between a bunch of mobs. Shield of Faith has a 10 minute duration, so it also can have a lot of stretch. Compelled Duel and Warding Bond are good for trying to help cover other players.
Yeah, those plus find steed pretty much make up my short list of spells for paladins too.
I mean, I'd go for Elemental Weapon or Crusader's Mantle too in the right circumstance- EW lasts for an hour so give it to someone like a Fighter or Barbarian who stretches weapon attacks a little further and it'll net out ahead of a 3rd level Smite, and Crusader's Mantle is good with several weapon users in the party.
I mean, I'd go for Elemental Weapon or Crusader's Mantle too in the right circumstance- EW lasts for an hour so give it to someone like a Fighter or Barbarian who stretches weapon attacks a little further and it'll net out ahead of a 3rd level Smite, and Crusader's Mantle is good with several weapon users in the party.
I did say “short list,” not that those spells were the entire list. You’re absolutely right about those spells (and others) being viable for paladins to cast at times. Heck, I used to have to defend choices like heroism and divine favor against the #nothingbutsmite crowd. Heck, I’d even add crusader’s mantle to that list from time to time, depending on party composition and the nature of the encounter. After all, it’s a toolbox, you pick the right tool for the job.
One difference I am needing to keep in mind is what kind of an action is needed to cast, full action or bonus action, etc. Bless is a full action, whereas Shield of Faith, Divine Favor, Aid, Ensnaring Strike, and the magical Smites only require bonus actions, which means i can attack, Lay on Hands, or whatever with my regular action. Wish I could Lay on Hands as a bonus action though. But that’s probably greedy of me.
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Oooo very cool. I should ask my DM if I can do that. That’d really help my action economy. I don’t have much use for my bonus action for at the moment. To hit and heal on the same turn would feel pretty great.
Searing Smite deserves special mention since it doesn't require Concentration any more, it's only a 1st level spell, and it's guaranteed to deal damage again at the start of the enemy's turn. It's great if your goal is to try to break an enemy's concentration.
Searing Smite deserves special mention since it doesn't require Concentration any more, it's only a 1st level spell, and it's guaranteed to deal damage again at the start of the enemy's turn. It's great if your goal is to try to break an enemy's concentration.
Oh dang, I hadn’t noticed that exception. Not bad.
Wait, can you Smite and cast a Smite spell? Or does one replace the other?
Searing Smite deserves special mention since it doesn't require Concentration any more, it's only a 1st level spell, and it's guaranteed to deal damage again at the start of the enemy's turn. It's great if your goal is to try to break an enemy's concentration.
Oh dang, I hadn’t noticed that exception. Not bad.
Wait, can you Smite and cast a Smite spell? Or does one replace the other?
In 2014, Divine Smite is a class feature you use when an attack hits that consumes spell slots, while the Smite spells are to be cast ahead of your attacks as a bonus action to apply their effects on the next hit, so both could end up applied to one attack. 24 changed things so Divine Smite is a spell you learn as a class feature and it like all the other Smites is cast as a Bonus Action on hit, so in 24 you can only use one per round.
Wait, can you Smite and cast a Smite spell? Or does one replace the other?
You could under the 2014 rules, since Smite spells had to be cast before the hit, and Divine Smite was a feature you activated on hit with no action required.
Under the 2024 rules all of the Smite spells are cast as a bonus action after you hit, and Divine Smite is now a spell, so you only get to use one of them at a time. On the plus side, Smite spells don't require concentration any more, you get a free use of Divine Smite, and paladins got a bunch of other unrelated buffs (e.g. healing spells got better, Lay on Hands is a bonus action, Find Steed is better and they get a free use of it now, no more Fighting Style restrictions, etc.)
I see spells like Zone of Truth or Command could have some value out-of-combat. But I’m not sure yet if they are worth preparing, given limited spell slots?
Hi all. Brand new to D&D 5e, and curious to hear thoughts on worthy Paladin spells?
I just completed my first battle (level 7, joined late), which was an epic boss fight. And for my money it seemed like Bless was worth its weight in gold. I'm curious to try other spells, but many require concentration and thus compete with Bless.
Bless affects at least 3 party members, and helps both attack & save bonuses. So that’s at least 3 x 2 1d4 of bonus. Also Bless both addresses a weakness Paladins seem to have (boosting hit rate) and protects its own concentration checks. Tough to compete with that I feel.
Anyhow, thoughts?
I haven't looked too closely at the new version of the Paladin, but at least with the 2014e version, there was a saying that if you weren't using your Paladin spell slots to Smite, you were doing it wrong. While I'm hesitant to say that there is a right or wrong way to play, but there's some truth to it - it's hard to beat Smites for good uses if spell slots.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Linklite about summed it up. I played an pally through level 13 or 14, about the only spell I cast was find steed. The one exception was I had an ancients paladin, so I used misty step sometimes.
Smites are the best for pure DPR, which doesn't mean you need to devote every single slot exclusively to them. Tossing out a buff spell at the opening of a major fight is a decent tactic. Bless covers a lot of targets and gives solid boosts, Heroism is good for boosting the staying power of a particular player (upcasting it is less desirable on half-casters). Divine Favor is good for trying to stretch a spell slot between a bunch of mobs. Shield of Faith has a 10 minute duration, so it also can have a lot of stretch. Compelled Duel and Warding Bond are good for trying to help cover other players.
Yeah Find Steed is one that looks way cool that’s not concentration. And Aid as well. Heroism and Shield of Faith give clear boosts, but since they are concentration, I went with Bless in this my first fight. And it saved our biscuits.
My Pally is also an Ancients, so Misty Step gives rare mobility. But beyond that, there are only so many spell slots per level. And yeah Smites are a thing.
I spent most of the fight Blessing and healing folks and covering them with my Auras. Which was needed. We barely survived.
Yeah, those plus find steed pretty much make up my short list of spells for paladins too.
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I mean, I'd go for Elemental Weapon or Crusader's Mantle too in the right circumstance- EW lasts for an hour so give it to someone like a Fighter or Barbarian who stretches weapon attacks a little further and it'll net out ahead of a 3rd level Smite, and Crusader's Mantle is good with several weapon users in the party.
I did say “short list,” not that those spells were the entire list. You’re absolutely right about those spells (and others) being viable for paladins to cast at times. Heck, I used to have to defend choices like heroism and divine favor against the #nothingbutsmite crowd. Heck, I’d even add crusader’s mantle to that list from time to time, depending on party composition and the nature of the encounter. After all, it’s a toolbox, you pick the right tool for the job.
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One difference I am needing to keep in mind is what kind of an action is needed to cast, full action or bonus action, etc. Bless is a full action, whereas Shield of Faith, Divine Favor, Aid, Ensnaring Strike, and the magical Smites only require bonus actions, which means i can attack, Lay on Hands, or whatever with my regular action. Wish I could Lay on Hands as a bonus action though. But that’s probably greedy of me.
It's a Bonus Action for 2024e Paladins.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Oooo very cool. I should ask my DM if I can do that. That’d really help my action economy. I don’t have much use for my bonus action for at the moment. To hit and heal on the same turn would feel pretty great.
Searing Smite deserves special mention since it doesn't require Concentration any more, it's only a 1st level spell, and it's guaranteed to deal damage again at the start of the enemy's turn. It's great if your goal is to try to break an enemy's concentration.
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Yeah, that’s one of the best upgrades to those spells.
Oh dang, I hadn’t noticed that exception. Not bad.
Wait, can you Smite and cast a Smite spell? Or does one replace the other?
In 2014, Divine Smite is a class feature you use when an attack hits that consumes spell slots, while the Smite spells are to be cast ahead of your attacks as a bonus action to apply their effects on the next hit, so both could end up applied to one attack. 24 changed things so Divine Smite is a spell you learn as a class feature and it like all the other Smites is cast as a Bonus Action on hit, so in 24 you can only use one per round.
You could under the 2014 rules, since Smite spells had to be cast before the hit, and Divine Smite was a feature you activated on hit with no action required.
Under the 2024 rules all of the Smite spells are cast as a bonus action after you hit, and Divine Smite is now a spell, so you only get to use one of them at a time. On the plus side, Smite spells don't require concentration any more, you get a free use of Divine Smite, and paladins got a bunch of other unrelated buffs (e.g. healing spells got better, Lay on Hands is a bonus action, Find Steed is better and they get a free use of it now, no more Fighting Style restrictions, etc.)
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All very helpful, thank you.
On utility spells:
I see spells like Zone of Truth or Command could have some value out-of-combat. But I’m not sure yet if they are worth preparing, given limited spell slots?