Thus far have mainly been a healer since my party has gone down in tough fights. But they also seem to deal better damage than me so far. In part because I don’t have means to buff my hit rate without Bless, which I tend to cast in medium/tough fights.
Have Shield. Had taken Dueling fighting style, but am considering switching to Defense because just me being out there with both my auras helps the group, and I’m not always attacking, but if I do, Smite can help my damage. Whereas if I get hit I could lose concentration on Bless.
At level 8 I’m thinking +2 to CHA because it affects so much. Have considered other feats, esp to make use of bonus action, etc., but of course Paladins are a bit feat-starved. Enjoying the support-style at moment.
The first step on our journey is roleplaying, the core of D&D beyond the game mechanics. You have an oath, in this case Oath of the Ancients. How do you roleplay that? Why have you chosen that oath, and how do you stay true to it and act on it throughout the campaign. Remember the importance of roleplaying in D&D.
Mechanically, you should be able good at Charisma and Strength. If you run out of spell slots, be ready to fight with a weapon. You are Frontline fighter and a spellcaster, so balance both out. Your Charisma and Strength should both be as high as possible, with Charisma being the priority.
Extra note: Insight and Persuasion are very useful for those who want to play a Paladin.
If you want to multiclass, take Warlock (hexblade would be epic) or Sorcerer.
Full plate armor is usually the best option for Paladin armor.
The best 2014 feats for Paladins in order are Polearm Master, Inspiring Leader, Great Weapon Master, War Caster, Sentinel Forces, Telekinetic, Resilient, and Fey touched. I'll have to check what the best are for the new 2024 rules.
Sincerely, TheDjinni.
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Check out Monach of the Realms forum game!As Djinni you'll know me, for I am your king. From void I have shaped thee, I've shaped everything. But please do not kneel, just look and behold, I rule you to heal and share stories untold. The mask that I wear is a crude one of glass, so your soul will repair if you glance at me fast. You'll pray that you know me, and I'll let your heart ring. I'm as strong as the world tree and I'll make your heart sing.
Few basic support tips: time heals to avoid Catruize. Deal damage too. Don't just pocket the tank, heal others who pushing enemies. Dont just spam abilities and Stand your ground against flanks who 1v1, most supporters have some sort of defensive ability that can massively help so manage your abilities https://speedtest.vet/https://vidmate.bid/ .
Definitely aim to maximize Charisma if you can. As long as you're okay with being the support role / not doing as many flashy things as others, your Aura will be almost gamebreakingly good.
I DM for a high level group with a paladin and so long as they're together, everyone has +5 to every saving throw. It makes it pretty difficult to do anything meaningful to them with saves, and everyone's constantly thanking the paladin for being around.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
A pure paladin is unfortunately a worse support than a multiclass paladin, if really focusing on support, multiclassing into Bard tends to work best since Bard has so many support features and spells (and is also Charisma based). Pure paladin is else wise too far behind on spell progression and spell slot progression while aura are passive bonuses for those in range, it isn't something you're actively performing with your actions and bonus actions.
Alternatively there is also Warlock, if 2014, it'd be picking up hexblade or 2024 then picking up pact of the blade, these would allow you to use charisma for performing attacks with the relevant weapons. This focus then allows going all-in on Charisma to get Aura of Protection up to +5, which is quite insane and one of the most powerful features in the game at that point.
I wouldn't recommend going too heavy on multiclassing but if support is the goal then I think going Paladin 8 (get that ASI first) and then getting either 3 levels in bard (college of lore for cutting words) or warlock (if 2024, for celestial warlock, else just 1 level dip in 2014 for hexblade) are good options. There is also Divine Soul sorcerer from sorcerer which is also charisma, from XgtE to pick up a few cleric spells but using Charisma, overall would more recommend Bard as Paladin already has a lot of spell overlap with Cleric.
If you're casting bless, always include yourself as one of the targets, bless helps saving throws so you have a higher chance to maintain concentration and then you can go in and start wailing on creatures with melee attacks on following rounds.
Good thoughts, thanks all. Yes 2014 rules. And it’s only been a few sessions. So still feeling things out.
Picked Paladin for its mix of abilities and role play, and so far support has been the apparent need. But I plan to not solely do that, so hope to stick to Paladin as much as I can, for abilities that scale like Lay on Hands, better Smites, and to fully explore the class.
Spells - curious how folks play this. So many of Paladins’ interesting spells require concentration. Hard for me to pick something over Bless at the moment, since it buffs so many at once. Not complaining, just trying to stock spells like Searing Smite (only Smite spell that seems to not require concentration), etc.
Bonus Action - my subclass doesn’t have much to do here, so I’ve been sorely tempted to try Shield Master, but am hesitant. I like the idea of adding some control to my package, and the DEX stuff is potentially helpful. But I just don’t know if it’s worth it instead of boosting my CHA, especially since you can only do this every 4 levels.
One creative thing I liked doing in combat was cast Speak with Animals and then persuade one attacking beast to leave us be. Which was in-character for my Ancients Paladin.
Most of the best spells use concentration, Bless is one of the best support spells Paladin gets, if we are talking about spells that apply a positive effect on to allies then the list is pretty limited, I have underlined those that don't need concentration.
1st level: Bless, Heroism, Protection from Evil and Good. Shield of Faith
2nd level: Aid, Warding Bond
3rd level: Crusader's Mantle, Aura of Life, Aura of Purity
4th Level: Death Ward
This is just a list of those that directly affect allies which aren't healing effects, of the healing spells only Aura of Vitality really needs concentration, while there are multiple utility spells which also require concentration but also those that do not, spells like detect magic. Of the support spells, Aid and Bless stand out, Aid is rare in that it is one of the few spells that value truly increases the more that it is upcast while bless is bless.
As an ancient paladin, you could pick up a quarterstaff and use that as a weapon, then around level 12 pick up polearm master, since the level 11 feature of Improved Divine Smite will add to the BA attack and Reaction attacks supplied by the polearm master feat. As a support, you still need to be assisting with the damage output, nothing supports the party better than killing the hostile creatures faster.
Most of the best spells use concentration, Bless is one of the best support spells Paladin gets, if we are talking about spells that apply a positive effect on to allies then the list is pretty limited, I have underlined those that don't need concentration.
1st level: Bless, Heroism, Protection from Evil and Good. Shield of Faith
2nd level: Aid, Warding Bond
3rd level: Crusader's Mantle, Aura of Life, Aura of Purity
4th Level: Death Ward
This is just a list of those that directly affect allies which aren't healing effects, of the healing spells only Aura of Vitality really needs concentration, while there are multiple utility spells which also require concentration but also those that do not, spells like detect magic. Of the support spells, Aid and Bless stand out, Aid is rare in that it is one of the few spells that value truly increases the more that it is upcast while bless is bless.
As an ancient paladin, you could pick up a quarterstaff and use that as a weapon, then around level 12 pick up polearm master, since the level 11 feature of Improved Divine Smite will add to the BA attack and Reaction attacks supplied by the polearm master feat. As a support, you still need to be assisting with the damage output, nothing supports the party better than killing the hostile creatures faster.
I forgot about Aid. I should probably find a spell slot for that. I’m trying to juggle having a variety of spells since I’m less sure of what I may face. On that, raising my CHA would help me prepare more spells.
Polearm Master - I’m torn. It is clearly amazing. But I am trying to resist having to involve Polearm Master, just cuz this is a melee build. Though it does seem even more helpful for Paladins by giving them more attacks and making use of their bonus action.
Preferably I’d rather lean more into my shield with a feat like Shield Master. But because Paladins are both MAD and sparse with feats, it’s just hard to see taking a feat like that over an ASI or stronger feat, unless it could be house ruled to allow the shove bonus action before the attacks.
Another feat I’m considering is Inspiring Leader. I dig it cuz it uses my high CHA and impacts everyone in my party, including our sorcerer’s familiar. It’s not a spell and seems to last pretty long. Just again hard to decide between that and higher stat for the functions I already have.
Temporary HP is always good and Inspiring Leader is one of the best sources of it, and it stacks with Aid so you can be giving people a serious amount of extra HP over their character's base maximum HP.
I would say that Shield Master in 2014 is a subpar feat, a 5 foot shove is not much for expending a bonus action, tho ignores any size differences meaning a halfling paladin can move an Ancient Dragon or a Tarrasque 5 foot with it... the main use of Shield Master is the DEX saves.
Temporary HP is always good and Inspiring Leader is one of the best sources of it, and it stacks with Aid so you can be giving people a serious amount of extra HP over their character's base maximum HP.
I would say that Shield Master in 2014 is a subpar feat, a 5 foot shove is not much for expending a bonus action, tho ignores any size differences meaning a halfling paladin can move an Ancient Dragon or a Tarrasque 5 foot with it... the main use of Shield Master is the DEX saves.
I think Shield Master’s shove to knock prone is the main attraction. That would give advantage to myself and my other melees to attack, as well as slowing the enemy down. My Paladin doesn’t have many ways to boost hit rate other than Bless, which I may not cast every battle. Advantage also gives a second chance to crit.
And yeah the DEX saves are kind of helpful. The full negation of damage only happens when you clear the DEX save, and the Aura of Protection helps make that more likely, despite having poor base DEX saves. Some small synergy.
Prone is a very party dependent in usefulness, if the party is all melee then it's great but knocking creatures prone causes issues for ranged characters since they now have disadvantage on attack rolls.
Yeah I’m only considering Shield Master because 4 of 5 including myself are primarily melee. Also anyone not in range doesn’t have to target that particular enemy.
Trying to see if a shield build can offer more than +2 AC, on a build that only has so many feats and has many ASIs to feed. Other than Shield Master I’m not sure what else. So I may stick with maxing my CHA and throwing on Inspiring Leader. But then there is the question of what to do with the bonus action.
First time player. Enjoying my level 7 Oath of the Ancients Paladin so far. Curious to hear tips on how to continue in support role:
Species: Cervan (Grove). 16,14,16,10,12,16 (rolled)
Thus far have mainly been a healer since my party has gone down in tough fights. But they also seem to deal better damage than me so far. In part because I don’t have means to buff my hit rate without Bless, which I tend to cast in medium/tough fights.
Have Shield. Had taken Dueling fighting style, but am considering switching to Defense because just me being out there with both my auras helps the group, and I’m not always attacking, but if I do, Smite can help my damage. Whereas if I get hit I could lose concentration on Bless.
At level 8 I’m thinking +2 to CHA because it affects so much. Have considered other feats, esp to make use of bonus action, etc., but of course Paladins are a bit feat-starved. Enjoying the support-style at moment.
Thoughts?
Paladin Tips:
The first step on our journey is roleplaying, the core of D&D beyond the game mechanics. You have an oath, in this case Oath of the Ancients. How do you roleplay that? Why have you chosen that oath, and how do you stay true to it and act on it throughout the campaign. Remember the importance of roleplaying in D&D.
Sincerely, TheDjinni.
Check out Monach of the Realms forum game! As Djinni you'll know me, for I am your king. From void I have shaped thee, I've shaped everything. But please do not kneel, just look and behold, I rule you to heal and share stories untold. The mask that I wear is a crude one of glass, so your soul will repair if you glance at me fast. You'll pray that you know me, and I'll let your heart ring. I'm as strong as the world tree and I'll make your heart sing.
Few basic support tips: time heals to avoid Catruize. Deal damage too. Don't just pocket the tank, heal others who pushing enemies. Dont just spam abilities and Stand your ground against flanks who 1v1, most supporters have some sort of defensive ability that can massively help so manage your abilities https://speedtest.vet/ https://vidmate.bid/ .
Definitely aim to maximize Charisma if you can. As long as you're okay with being the support role / not doing as many flashy things as others, your Aura will be almost gamebreakingly good.
I DM for a high level group with a paladin and so long as they're together, everyone has +5 to every saving throw. It makes it pretty difficult to do anything meaningful to them with saves, and everyone's constantly thanking the paladin for being around.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
A pure paladin is unfortunately a worse support than a multiclass paladin, if really focusing on support, multiclassing into Bard tends to work best since Bard has so many support features and spells (and is also Charisma based). Pure paladin is else wise too far behind on spell progression and spell slot progression while aura are passive bonuses for those in range, it isn't something you're actively performing with your actions and bonus actions.
Alternatively there is also Warlock, if 2014, it'd be picking up hexblade or 2024 then picking up pact of the blade, these would allow you to use charisma for performing attacks with the relevant weapons. This focus then allows going all-in on Charisma to get Aura of Protection up to +5, which is quite insane and one of the most powerful features in the game at that point.
I wouldn't recommend going too heavy on multiclassing but if support is the goal then I think going Paladin 8 (get that ASI first) and then getting either 3 levels in bard (college of lore for cutting words) or warlock (if 2024, for celestial warlock, else just 1 level dip in 2014 for hexblade) are good options. There is also Divine Soul sorcerer from sorcerer which is also charisma, from XgtE to pick up a few cleric spells but using Charisma, overall would more recommend Bard as Paladin already has a lot of spell overlap with Cleric.
If you're casting bless, always include yourself as one of the targets, bless helps saving throws so you have a higher chance to maintain concentration and then you can go in and start wailing on creatures with melee attacks on following rounds.
Good thoughts, thanks all. Yes 2014 rules. And it’s only been a few sessions. So still feeling things out.
Picked Paladin for its mix of abilities and role play, and so far support has been the apparent need. But I plan to not solely do that, so hope to stick to Paladin as much as I can, for abilities that scale like Lay on Hands, better Smites, and to fully explore the class.
Spells - curious how folks play this. So many of Paladins’ interesting spells require concentration. Hard for me to pick something over Bless at the moment, since it buffs so many at once. Not complaining, just trying to stock spells like Searing Smite (only Smite spell that seems to not require concentration), etc.
Bonus Action - my subclass doesn’t have much to do here, so I’ve been sorely tempted to try Shield Master, but am hesitant. I like the idea of adding some control to my package, and the DEX stuff is potentially helpful. But I just don’t know if it’s worth it instead of boosting my CHA, especially since you can only do this every 4 levels.
One creative thing I liked doing in combat was cast Speak with Animals and then persuade one attacking beast to leave us be. Which was in-character for my Ancients Paladin.
Most of the best spells use concentration, Bless is one of the best support spells Paladin gets, if we are talking about spells that apply a positive effect on to allies then the list is pretty limited, I have underlined those that don't need concentration.
1st level: Bless, Heroism, Protection from Evil and Good. Shield of Faith
2nd level: Aid, Warding Bond
3rd level: Crusader's Mantle, Aura of Life, Aura of Purity
4th Level: Death Ward
This is just a list of those that directly affect allies which aren't healing effects, of the healing spells only Aura of Vitality really needs concentration, while there are multiple utility spells which also require concentration but also those that do not, spells like detect magic. Of the support spells, Aid and Bless stand out, Aid is rare in that it is one of the few spells that value truly increases the more that it is upcast while bless is bless.
As an ancient paladin, you could pick up a quarterstaff and use that as a weapon, then around level 12 pick up polearm master, since the level 11 feature of Improved Divine Smite will add to the BA attack and Reaction attacks supplied by the polearm master feat. As a support, you still need to be assisting with the damage output, nothing supports the party better than killing the hostile creatures faster.
I forgot about Aid. I should probably find a spell slot for that. I’m trying to juggle having a variety of spells since I’m less sure of what I may face. On that, raising my CHA would help me prepare more spells.
Polearm Master - I’m torn. It is clearly amazing. But I am trying to resist having to involve Polearm Master, just cuz this is a melee build. Though it does seem even more helpful for Paladins by giving them more attacks and making use of their bonus action.
Preferably I’d rather lean more into my shield with a feat like Shield Master. But because Paladins are both MAD and sparse with feats, it’s just hard to see taking a feat like that over an ASI or stronger feat, unless it could be house ruled to allow the shove bonus action before the attacks.
Another feat I’m considering is Inspiring Leader. I dig it cuz it uses my high CHA and impacts everyone in my party, including our sorcerer’s familiar. It’s not a spell and seems to last pretty long. Just again hard to decide between that and higher stat for the functions I already have.
Temporary HP is always good and Inspiring Leader is one of the best sources of it, and it stacks with Aid so you can be giving people a serious amount of extra HP over their character's base maximum HP.
I would say that Shield Master in 2014 is a subpar feat, a 5 foot shove is not much for expending a bonus action, tho ignores any size differences meaning a halfling paladin can move an Ancient Dragon or a Tarrasque 5 foot with it... the main use of Shield Master is the DEX saves.
I think Shield Master’s shove to knock prone is the main attraction. That would give advantage to myself and my other melees to attack, as well as slowing the enemy down. My Paladin doesn’t have many ways to boost hit rate other than Bless, which I may not cast every battle. Advantage also gives a second chance to crit.
And yeah the DEX saves are kind of helpful. The full negation of damage only happens when you clear the DEX save, and the Aura of Protection helps make that more likely, despite having poor base DEX saves. Some small synergy.
Prone is a very party dependent in usefulness, if the party is all melee then it's great but knocking creatures prone causes issues for ranged characters since they now have disadvantage on attack rolls.
Yeah I’m only considering Shield Master because 4 of 5 including myself are primarily melee. Also anyone not in range doesn’t have to target that particular enemy.
Trying to see if a shield build can offer more than +2 AC, on a build that only has so many feats and has many ASIs to feed. Other than Shield Master I’m not sure what else. So I may stick with maxing my CHA and throwing on Inspiring Leader. But then there is the question of what to do with the bonus action.
So last session my awesome DM homebrewed a shield for me that extends Paladins’ auras from 10 feet to 20 feet.
I love it. It simply leans into what a Paladin does best and gives more value to having a shield.