I am so sorry you have come across people who have treated you like that. Please know it is on the rarer side. many TTRPGs, especially D&D, are growing ever-more inclusive of LGBTQ+ and such. It's not perfect, as you have discovered, but please keep the faith there are more games open to it than there are closed to it.
This reminds me of this thread about groups maybe using a flag to show the group is friendly and supportive of LGBTQ+ players and characters. Your situation kinda supports my view (and others) that such a flag is useful.
It's quite frightening when a few sessions in you, or your character, might end up saying or doing something that ends up revealing the true nature and then having people turn on you. It's worse when it's you, rather than just your character, and all the negativity is out-of-character, which makes it personal. I am well aware of that fear and how cruel some people can be.
Still, please do know you are not alone, there are many DMs and players who will welcome players of all kinds. I do hope you find a group that's right for you.
To the people ragging on LeviRocks
I think you're being a little bit unfair on Levi or misunderstanding. I have not read anything where he has said if a person wanted to make a gay character he'd say no. His "numbers" thing is only for his own NPCs in only his games and does not indicate, in any way, that he'd stop a person playing a gay/trans/whatever character. If he does, sure the backlash is warranted, but he has not stated this anywhere.
His letting dice decide the sexuality of an NPC is no different than rolling dice for gender, for age, for number of siblings, or anything else who want to use a table for. People often do this for their own characters. He does it for an NPC if there is need.
Given many DMs won't even entertain the idea at all, I'd say it's rather progressive. I'd rather a DM who might, where situation arises, roll a dice and maybe make a LGBTQ+ non-player character rather than not rolling and every single NPC in the world being straight/cis. And yes, the situations do arise, especially if your party has a Bard... >.>
Levi's post to the OP was polite, it was sincere, it was in agreement with the OP and offered a personal viewpoint on what he does to try and be more inclusive. His reasoning for his system was a good one, and true. Many straight people who DM and have not got a lot of diversity in their inner circles might fall into the habit of thinking of all NPCs as straight/etc - which can be forgiven, it's their "norm", it's what they're used to. The concept of rolling if sexuality of the NPC is ever brought up can help encourage the idea of breaking out of one's norms and doing so in a realistic way if some semblance of realism is wanted (which is not wrong).
I'm going to quote a few things some of you have conveniently missed:
You are misunderstanding him and attacking him as a result, causing him to have to re-explain and defend himself over and over. This is not friendly, this is not welcoming, it is not justified and it's wrong.
Let us simplify his posts so you can see what it is you are attacking him for (hopefully, unintentionally):
1. He agrees with the OP and thinks the people ridiculing them for playing LGBTQ+ characters needs to go to hell.
2. Players should play what they want for their character.
3. He adopts a dice-rolling method for determining gender/sexuality that is different to social norm for his PCs, his DMPCs and NPCs in a campaign he runs. This method is not enforced to player characters. This is just his way of introducing such diversity in a way that feels more organic to him. This is mentioned so the OP could suggest it to the current or future DMs if they are not used to making more inclusive/diverse NPCs. This will help the DM become more comfortable with it, and this makes it more fun for players who do have LGBTQ+ characters.
To LeviRocks
I apologise for the toxicity you have been shown. As a gay man I thank you for your open-minded and sensible approach to the topic. It's always nice to hear of DMs being inclusive and crafting a diverse world without pandering ("oh you're gay? I'll make it so that it just so happens nearly everyone is gay and bi!"). I do respect some sensible approaches to some level of realism so it feels natural and immersive. Your dice rolling is a respectable way to approach this. I would recommend, just in case you don't already, to adjust the percentage ratio with different cultures, it works great for human cultures- however, societies where everyone lives longer and can produce dozens of children, see them all to adulthood and still have several centuries of life left may enjoy more liberty in sexuality - where we only have about two and a half decades of decent fertility, people who have several centuries of it, need not feel so pressured into procreating. The reverse being true for the much shorter lived species. Also, some races may be more naturally inclined to diversity: like Changelings, who can literally change gender like we change hairstyles and may lead multiple lives at once. Of course, that could complicate things. In anycase, your approach to it is reasonable and appreciated. Thank you.
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Thank you. You understand what I was saying completely. I meant no harm, I was explaining how I do it, and then people started attacking me, causing me to have to defend my statements. I didn't mean any harm, but was responding to the people attacking me because they were severely misunderstanding my original posts, and I needed to explain that I wasn't a bigot.
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Yes, I agree. It makes sense that different races have more transgender/gay people than others. Elves in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes literally have rules for a "Chosen of Corellon" who is gender fluid. Changelings can change gender at will, I have a changeling character that I play for one of my friend's campaigns.
Some races definitely do have more LGBTQ+ characters than others, which I keep in mind while making NPCs and such. I simply offered the 5% ratio at the start for the standard. I really don't want to have to go through each race and determine which ones have more LGBTQ+ than the others, so I keep the table and system at 95% standard, 5% LGBTQ+, because I have no idea how many orcs would be gay compared to lizardfolk.
I don't limit player choices. I'm a strong advocate of them. I said from my first post that players should be able to choose to play whatever they want.
Please, stop. I was defending myself because you started attacking me. I'm not a bigot. I'm not a boomer (I am 18), I'm not racist (I have no idea how that came up), but I do roll for the sexuality of NPCs in my games, to make it feel organic.
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Levi, who is the "you started attacking me" bit to, because the post seems to be a reply to my minor suggestions to consider different races (it was only a suggestion and I'd understand if you don't make adjustments, hence my saying "Of course, that could complicate things"). I wasn't attacking you.
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I really, really didn't mean to start a fight, I'm so sorry! Please don't fight! Really, we can all just forget this post exists if it caused this much of a problem. I was only trying to express my frustration, I really didn't mean to make things worse. I'm sorry!
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I really, really didn't mean to start a fight, I'm so sorry! Please don't fight! Really, we can all just forget this post exists if it caused this much of a problem. I was only trying to express my frustration, I really didn't mean to make things worse. I'm sorry!
No, it's not your fault. I shouldn't have commented. Sorry.
I'm sorry people are jerks. You should definitely be able to come here and vent. It's not your fault. There was just a misunderstanding.
Sorry.
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Hopefully there'll be no more on this now but if you want to talk/vent you can PM me. Getting this sort of backlash when trying to be supportive can be highly negative and given the current situation with the pandemic and isolation people can struggle to deal with negative things. This has probably been just a misunderstanding and some people are more tense/emotional than they would normally be right now.
And this goes to everyone - if you have a more emotional/contraversial response to this that's not directly on topic maybe PM instead. There'll be no judgement, these are trying times, sometimes venting helps and even though I can sometimes be an argumentative bastard (as the regulars all probably know by now) I can shut that part of my brain off and be a good listener. This way you get to vent and don't have to worry about upsetting somebody.
Otherwise, let's get the train back on the tracks.
I really, really didn't mean to start a fight, I'm so sorry! Please don't fight! Really, we can all just forget this post exists if it caused this much of a problem. I was only trying to express my frustration, I really didn't mean to make things worse. I'm sorry!
Don't worry. Emotions are high right now. It's not your fault.
I definitely understand the frustration and it's worth raising a topic like this just to show you're not alone and there are people who understand. Some people discriminate (sometimes without realising) because they just don't understand and maybe threads like this might help them to do. Of course some people discriminate because they're just whackadoodle and you can't fix that kinda stupid so in those cases best to try and avoid them. Such is the variety of peeps. Thankfully the latter are fewer and fewer. Hopefully that brings some comfort.
-
On an unrelated and off-topic note I think I've had wayyy too much sugar. >.>
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In my homebrew world, Sprites, Pixies, and Brownies are part of a tri-gendered/species/subspecies combo. They can all choose “male” or “female” as an identity, but procreation can only occur when all three “species” are together. In the spring, they have an annual holiday where everyone who is looking to procreate all get together to specific locations in the world to... ahem, “celebrate together.” The species of the offspring is always dictated by the species of the birthing parent.
Isn’t D&D about exploring the fantastical world of imagination? If we can explore a world with flying fire-breathing dragons, robots made of stone and wood, floating meatball monsters covered in eyestalks that can shoot magic and imagine more of themselves into existence, Kung fu bird people, gigantic prehistoric psychic fish, and who knows what all else.... Why should LGBT characters even raise an eyebrow? Why the heck should this be a problem for anyone?
I really, really didn't mean to start a fight, I'm so sorry! Please don't fight! Really, we can all just forget this post exists if it caused this much of a problem. I was only trying to express my frustration, I really didn't mean to make things worse. I'm sorry!
You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. You came here to vent about people being hateful to you, which is totally fair and healthy to do in reasonable amounts. Here, have another resource to help find a local (or online) friendly gayming group: https://tabletopgaymers.org/group/ Good luck! I hope you have a healthier gaming experience from now on!
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
In my homebrew world, Sprites, Pixies, and Brownies are part of a tri-gendered/species/subspecies combo. They can all choose “male” or “female” as an identity, but procreation can only occur when all three “species” are together. In the spring, they have an annual holiday where everyone who is looking to procreate all get together to specific locations in the world to... ahem, “celebrate together.” The species of the offspring is always dictated by the species of the birthing parent.
Isn’t D&D about exploring the fantastical world of imagination? If we can explore a world with flying fire-breathing dragons, robots made of stone and wood, floating meatball monsters covered in eyestalks that can shoot magic and imagine more of themselves into existence, Kung fu bird people, gigantic prehistoric psychic fish, and who knows what all else.... Why should LGBT characters even raise an eyebrow? Why the heck should this be a problem for anyone?
Yeah, LGBTQ+ NPCs are pretty common through 5e adventures. There's several mentions through 5e books of gay or transgender characters. Dragon Heist has several mentions of these characters. I've already mentioned the Chosen of Corellon and Changelings, there are many other races and mentions in D&D.
They certainly could use more representation, though.
@LordOfTheMemes: You have nothing to apologize for. All you did was vent about a number of unfortunate experiences about people being shitty to you in your games, and you are absolutely justified in coming out here to express yourself.
It's just an unfortunate fact that it's easy for misunderstandings to occur in online formats such as this, and for many of us this is a very deeply personal subject and have been attacked for expressing ourselves in the smallest of ways; as I've said earlier, I didn't even have to give ANY indication of my sexuality at all in order for other people to start verbally attacking "homosexuals for pushing their agenda!" And unfortunately, my experience is very, very mild compared to other people who have lost their family, their friends, and every single relationship they've ever had, simply because one person suspected they weren't heterosexual. If someone else were to say to them "maybe you brought it on yourself", that would be deeply offensive, ignorant, and ****ed up, regardless of who said it.
Regardless, even if I did introduce my character as "I'm playing Samuil, he's a dragonborn warlock who was adopted by a clan of nomadic humans, and he's bisexual", the response to that should not be "Why are you pushing your agenda?" it should be either "I'm playing so-and-so, who is a such-and-'such from wherever..." or "alright, let's get started and play."
I'm sorry you have had bad experiences, OP. I hope you can find a group that is more accepting.
This thread has just been so bizarre to me. To argue about needing to adhere to scientific realism in a game where a lizard wizard can turn a house into a friendly hydra is just a real head scratcher. You don't need to be "real" in D&D. Not even close. You just need to set rules and rationally and consistently work out the consequences of those rules. There are plenty of popular established fictional universes with different ratios of sexuality - The Expanse for example.
I will add though, that at my own table the issue of sexuality has come up maybe once or twice in... 8 or 9 years now? We have definitely had "flamboyant" bards and "butch" fighters, and any number of our characters could have been LBGTQ without it ever explicitly coming up. It's not like it's taboo, it's just not an aspect that we focus on in roleplay. And if it matters, we have a gay player and we talk about his IRL gay adventures so it's not like we're too prude to deal with it.
Anyway my point is that asserting your character's sexuality can cause friction regardless of your groups tolerance - it might just not be the kind of thing they are interested in spending their table time on. Not that it excuses rude or hateful behavior in the slightest.
@LordoftheMemes: You have nothing to apologize for. This is the sort of subject that tends to draw fire simply because everybody has an opinion and most folks feel like they Deserve To Share It. Heh, I present as evidence: some ghost hussy posting in a thread already largely settled. All you were doing was venting some steam about an issue near and dear to your heart.
@Levi: I know you weren't trying to be judgmental, just sharing an anecdote about how your games work. But...well. As you saw, to anyone who feels any connection to the ol' alphebet soup (full disclosure: I'm in the 'T' area of LGBT, at least broadly) does not appreciate even the suggestion of dismissal. We get it a lot, especially with folks making arguments like "representation is just as toxic as nonrepresentation! A DM should feel free to just make characters the way the characters should be made, without having to fill some dumb Representation Quota!" Which, by the way? Please don't make that sort of argument.
You may not think it, but the ideal of "I'm fine with LGBT folks...so long as I don't have to think about them, know them, look at them, or acknowledge their existence" is just as hurtful as outright bigotry and is far more pervasive. Lots of folks feel like LGBT people are free to do their LGBT things. Just...over there somewhere, where civilized folk don't have to see it. it's not about representation quotas, it's about the simple acknowledgement that we are here, and it's okay to be what we are.
The Wildemount book was very good at this. Key NPCs dotted throughout the book are not just gay; several of them are different ways and means of trans, there were a couple of genderfluid 'They' here and there, and all irrespective of alignment to boot - it was delightful, and hopefully the start of a trend.
How you do things isn't wrong. Just trying to hopefully help you be more aware that sometimes a little acknowledgment goes a long way. if you know there's someone at your table for whom this issue is near and dear to their heart? Maybe fudge one roll that lends in the 90s, just to make their day. Even if all it ever amounts to is one offhanded comment about the burly blacksmith muscle bear's husband waiting for him back home, that one comment is all you really need.
The Wildemount book was great with inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters. I loved to see more inclusion in the books. Again, I'm sorry if anything I said was offensive. I certainly didn't mean it that way. I was not on the side of the people who were saying "representation is as toxic as nonrepresentation", I have some things I'd like to say to that person, but would not want to attack them personally. I understand there are a ton of bigots out there, especially in certain countries that were slower to be more inclusive of them.
Representation is always better than non-representation. Always. As long as it is positive representation. There are way too many stereotypes and generalizations in the modern world, I absolutely hate it when people do so. No one fights to stop inclusion of groups of people unless they're a bigot.
I'm again, sorry for anything I said that was misunderstood to seem like I am bigoted. Trust me, I'm not. I hate any people who judge anyone because of how they are. That's just straight up wrong, and LGBTQ+ people aren't the only people effected by that by far. White, straight american males are stereotypically racist, homophobic, misogynistic gun-toting bigots. Trust me, I hate those people as much as you do.
I'm a nerd. I like numbers and D&D. I like mixing them together. Sorry if that was taken the wrong way in my first few posts.
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Going through some of this talk is a bit much but it has made me realize I have not been introducing any LBGTQ+ characters into my campaign. I am not gay nor do I play with any gay people but I think adding LBGTQ+ characters would still be good even if none of my players would directly connect with their life choices. I'm taking this thread as a win for me, thanks everyone.
*edit*
Before this gets out of hand, I have no problem with LGTBQ+ people and I don't not allow them in my campaign or something. Everyone is welcome at my table. It just hasn't happened is all.
@Yurei1453: I know, right? You step away for a bit, maybe sleep in a little, only to log on and find "Holy ****balls mother of god, WHY IS EVERYTHING ON FIRE?!?!
@LeviRocks: It's okay, we understand you were just trying to be supportive in your own way. Just understand that these sorts of subjects hit very close to home for some people, so we can be a little sensitive to them when they arise. *He says, deliberately ignoring the raging inferno behind him.*
To LordOfTheMemes
I am so sorry you have come across people who have treated you like that. Please know it is on the rarer side. many TTRPGs, especially D&D, are growing ever-more inclusive of LGBTQ+ and such. It's not perfect, as you have discovered, but please keep the faith there are more games open to it than there are closed to it.
This reminds me of this thread about groups maybe using a flag to show the group is friendly and supportive of LGBTQ+ players and characters. Your situation kinda supports my view (and others) that such a flag is useful.
It's quite frightening when a few sessions in you, or your character, might end up saying or doing something that ends up revealing the true nature and then having people turn on you. It's worse when it's you, rather than just your character, and all the negativity is out-of-character, which makes it personal. I am well aware of that fear and how cruel some people can be.
Still, please do know you are not alone, there are many DMs and players who will welcome players of all kinds. I do hope you find a group that's right for you.
To the people ragging on LeviRocks
I think you're being a little bit unfair on Levi or misunderstanding. I have not read anything where he has said if a person wanted to make a gay character he'd say no. His "numbers" thing is only for his own NPCs in only his games and does not indicate, in any way, that he'd stop a person playing a gay/trans/whatever character. If he does, sure the backlash is warranted, but he has not stated this anywhere.
His letting dice decide the sexuality of an NPC is no different than rolling dice for gender, for age, for number of siblings, or anything else who want to use a table for. People often do this for their own characters. He does it for an NPC if there is need.
Given many DMs won't even entertain the idea at all, I'd say it's rather progressive. I'd rather a DM who might, where situation arises, roll a dice and maybe make a LGBTQ+ non-player character rather than not rolling and every single NPC in the world being straight/cis. And yes, the situations do arise, especially if your party has a Bard... >.>
Levi's post to the OP was polite, it was sincere, it was in agreement with the OP and offered a personal viewpoint on what he does to try and be more inclusive. His reasoning for his system was a good one, and true. Many straight people who DM and have not got a lot of diversity in their inner circles might fall into the habit of thinking of all NPCs as straight/etc - which can be forgiven, it's their "norm", it's what they're used to. The concept of rolling if sexuality of the NPC is ever brought up can help encourage the idea of breaking out of one's norms and doing so in a realistic way if some semblance of realism is wanted (which is not wrong).
I'm going to quote a few things some of you have conveniently missed:
-
You are misunderstanding him and attacking him as a result, causing him to have to re-explain and defend himself over and over. This is not friendly, this is not welcoming, it is not justified and it's wrong.
Let us simplify his posts so you can see what it is you are attacking him for (hopefully, unintentionally):
1. He agrees with the OP and thinks the people ridiculing them for playing LGBTQ+ characters needs to go to hell.
2. Players should play what they want for their character.
3. He adopts a dice-rolling method for determining gender/sexuality that is different to social norm for his PCs, his DMPCs and NPCs in a campaign he runs. This method is not enforced to player characters. This is just his way of introducing such diversity in a way that feels more organic to him. This is mentioned so the OP could suggest it to the current or future DMs if they are not used to making more inclusive/diverse NPCs. This will help the DM become more comfortable with it, and this makes it more fun for players who do have LGBTQ+ characters.
To LeviRocks
I apologise for the toxicity you have been shown. As a gay man I thank you for your open-minded and sensible approach to the topic. It's always nice to hear of DMs being inclusive and crafting a diverse world without pandering ("oh you're gay? I'll make it so that it just so happens nearly everyone is gay and bi!"). I do respect some sensible approaches to some level of realism so it feels natural and immersive. Your dice rolling is a respectable way to approach this. I would recommend, just in case you don't already, to adjust the percentage ratio with different cultures, it works great for human cultures- however, societies where everyone lives longer and can produce dozens of children, see them all to adulthood and still have several centuries of life left may enjoy more liberty in sexuality - where we only have about two and a half decades of decent fertility, people who have several centuries of it, need not feel so pressured into procreating. The reverse being true for the much shorter lived species. Also, some races may be more naturally inclined to diversity: like Changelings, who can literally change gender like we change hairstyles and may lead multiple lives at once. Of course, that could complicate things. In anycase, your approach to it is reasonable and appreciated. Thank you.
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Thank you. You understand what I was saying completely. I meant no harm, I was explaining how I do it, and then people started attacking me, causing me to have to defend my statements. I didn't mean any harm, but was responding to the people attacking me because they were severely misunderstanding my original posts, and I needed to explain that I wasn't a bigot.
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Yes, I agree. It makes sense that different races have more transgender/gay people than others. Elves in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes literally have rules for a "Chosen of Corellon" who is gender fluid. Changelings can change gender at will, I have a changeling character that I play for one of my friend's campaigns.
Some races definitely do have more LGBTQ+ characters than others, which I keep in mind while making NPCs and such. I simply offered the 5% ratio at the start for the standard. I really don't want to have to go through each race and determine which ones have more LGBTQ+ than the others, so I keep the table and system at 95% standard, 5% LGBTQ+, because I have no idea how many orcs would be gay compared to lizardfolk.
I don't limit player choices. I'm a strong advocate of them. I said from my first post that players should be able to choose to play whatever they want.
Please, stop. I was defending myself because you started attacking me. I'm not a bigot. I'm not a boomer (I am 18), I'm not racist (I have no idea how that came up), but I do roll for the sexuality of NPCs in my games, to make it feel organic.
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Levi, who is the "you started attacking me" bit to, because the post seems to be a reply to my minor suggestions to consider different races (it was only a suggestion and I'd understand if you don't make adjustments, hence my saying "Of course, that could complicate things"). I wasn't attacking you.
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I know. I wasn't referring to you. It was other people. They know who the are. Thanks for defending me.
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Oh no...
I really, really didn't mean to start a fight, I'm so sorry! Please don't fight! Really, we can all just forget this post exists if it caused this much of a problem. I was only trying to express my frustration, I really didn't mean to make things worse. I'm sorry!
- With all due respects, your friendly neighbourhood alchemist
No, it's not your fault. I shouldn't have commented. Sorry.
I'm sorry people are jerks. You should definitely be able to come here and vent. It's not your fault. There was just a misunderstanding.
Sorry.
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Ah, good. I just wanted to be sure.
Hopefully there'll be no more on this now but if you want to talk/vent you can PM me. Getting this sort of backlash when trying to be supportive can be highly negative and given the current situation with the pandemic and isolation people can struggle to deal with negative things. This has probably been just a misunderstanding and some people are more tense/emotional than they would normally be right now.
And this goes to everyone - if you have a more emotional/contraversial response to this that's not directly on topic maybe PM instead. There'll be no judgement, these are trying times, sometimes venting helps and even though I can sometimes be an argumentative bastard (as the regulars all probably know by now) I can shut that part of my brain off and be a good listener. This way you get to vent and don't have to worry about upsetting somebody.
Otherwise, let's get the train back on the tracks.
-
Don't worry. Emotions are high right now. It's not your fault.
I definitely understand the frustration and it's worth raising a topic like this just to show you're not alone and there are people who understand. Some people discriminate (sometimes without realising) because they just don't understand and maybe threads like this might help them to do. Of course some people discriminate because they're just whackadoodle and you can't fix that kinda stupid so in those cases best to try and avoid them. Such is the variety of peeps. Thankfully the latter are fewer and fewer. Hopefully that brings some comfort.
-
On an unrelated and off-topic note I think I've had wayyy too much sugar. >.>
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In my homebrew world, Sprites, Pixies, and Brownies are part of a tri-gendered/species/subspecies combo. They can all choose “male” or “female” as an identity, but procreation can only occur when all three “species” are together. In the spring, they have an annual holiday where everyone who is looking to procreate all get together to specific locations in the world to... ahem, “celebrate together.” The species of the offspring is always dictated by the species of the birthing parent.
Isn’t D&D about exploring the fantastical world of imagination? If we can explore a world with flying fire-breathing dragons, robots made of stone and wood, floating meatball monsters covered in eyestalks that can shoot magic and imagine more of themselves into existence, Kung fu bird people, gigantic prehistoric psychic fish, and who knows what all else.... Why should LGBT characters even raise an eyebrow? Why the heck should this be a problem for anyone?
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You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. You came here to vent about people being hateful to you, which is totally fair and healthy to do in reasonable amounts. Here, have another resource to help find a local (or online) friendly gayming group: https://tabletopgaymers.org/group/ Good luck! I hope you have a healthier gaming experience from now on!
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yeah, LGBTQ+ NPCs are pretty common through 5e adventures. There's several mentions through 5e books of gay or transgender characters. Dragon Heist has several mentions of these characters. I've already mentioned the Chosen of Corellon and Changelings, there are many other races and mentions in D&D.
They certainly could use more representation, though.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
@LordOfTheMemes: You have nothing to apologize for. All you did was vent about a number of unfortunate experiences about people being shitty to you in your games, and you are absolutely justified in coming out here to express yourself.
It's just an unfortunate fact that it's easy for misunderstandings to occur in online formats such as this, and for many of us this is a very deeply personal subject and have been attacked for expressing ourselves in the smallest of ways; as I've said earlier, I didn't even have to give ANY indication of my sexuality at all in order for other people to start verbally attacking "homosexuals for pushing their agenda!" And unfortunately, my experience is very, very mild compared to other people who have lost their family, their friends, and every single relationship they've ever had, simply because one person suspected they weren't heterosexual. If someone else were to say to them "maybe you brought it on yourself", that would be deeply offensive, ignorant, and ****ed up, regardless of who said it.
Regardless, even if I did introduce my character as "I'm playing Samuil, he's a dragonborn warlock who was adopted by a clan of nomadic humans, and he's bisexual", the response to that should not be "Why are you pushing your agenda?" it should be either "I'm playing so-and-so, who is a such-and-'such from wherever..." or "alright, let's get started and play."
I'm sorry you have had bad experiences, OP. I hope you can find a group that is more accepting.
This thread has just been so bizarre to me. To argue about needing to adhere to scientific realism in a game where a lizard wizard can turn a house into a friendly hydra is just a real head scratcher. You don't need to be "real" in D&D. Not even close. You just need to set rules and rationally and consistently work out the consequences of those rules. There are plenty of popular established fictional universes with different ratios of sexuality - The Expanse for example.
I will add though, that at my own table the issue of sexuality has come up maybe once or twice in... 8 or 9 years now? We have definitely had "flamboyant" bards and "butch" fighters, and any number of our characters could have been LBGTQ without it ever explicitly coming up. It's not like it's taboo, it's just not an aspect that we focus on in roleplay. And if it matters, we have a gay player and we talk about his IRL gay adventures so it's not like we're too prude to deal with it.
Anyway my point is that asserting your character's sexuality can cause friction regardless of your groups tolerance - it might just not be the kind of thing they are interested in spending their table time on. Not that it excuses rude or hateful behavior in the slightest.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Wow. This happened. Man, the things you miss...
@LordoftheMemes:
You have nothing to apologize for. This is the sort of subject that tends to draw fire simply because everybody has an opinion and most folks feel like they Deserve To Share It. Heh, I present as evidence: some ghost hussy posting in a thread already largely settled. All you were doing was venting some steam about an issue near and dear to your heart.
@Levi:
I know you weren't trying to be judgmental, just sharing an anecdote about how your games work. But...well. As you saw, to anyone who feels any connection to the ol' alphebet soup (full disclosure: I'm in the 'T' area of LGBT, at least broadly) does not appreciate even the suggestion of dismissal. We get it a lot, especially with folks making arguments like "representation is just as toxic as nonrepresentation! A DM should feel free to just make characters the way the characters should be made, without having to fill some dumb Representation Quota!" Which, by the way? Please don't make that sort of argument.
You may not think it, but the ideal of "I'm fine with LGBT folks...so long as I don't have to think about them, know them, look at them, or acknowledge their existence" is just as hurtful as outright bigotry and is far more pervasive. Lots of folks feel like LGBT people are free to do their LGBT things. Just...over there somewhere, where civilized folk don't have to see it. it's not about representation quotas, it's about the simple acknowledgement that we are here, and it's okay to be what we are.
The Wildemount book was very good at this. Key NPCs dotted throughout the book are not just gay; several of them are different ways and means of trans, there were a couple of genderfluid 'They' here and there, and all irrespective of alignment to boot - it was delightful, and hopefully the start of a trend.
How you do things isn't wrong. Just trying to hopefully help you be more aware that sometimes a little acknowledgment goes a long way. if you know there's someone at your table for whom this issue is near and dear to their heart? Maybe fudge one roll that lends in the 90s, just to make their day. Even if all it ever amounts to is one offhanded comment about the burly blacksmith muscle bear's husband waiting for him back home, that one comment is all you really need.
Please do not contact or message me.
The Wildemount book was great with inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters. I loved to see more inclusion in the books. Again, I'm sorry if anything I said was offensive. I certainly didn't mean it that way. I was not on the side of the people who were saying "representation is as toxic as nonrepresentation", I have some things I'd like to say to that person, but would not want to attack them personally. I understand there are a ton of bigots out there, especially in certain countries that were slower to be more inclusive of them.
Representation is always better than non-representation. Always. As long as it is positive representation. There are way too many stereotypes and generalizations in the modern world, I absolutely hate it when people do so. No one fights to stop inclusion of groups of people unless they're a bigot.
I'm again, sorry for anything I said that was misunderstood to seem like I am bigoted. Trust me, I'm not. I hate any people who judge anyone because of how they are. That's just straight up wrong, and LGBTQ+ people aren't the only people effected by that by far. White, straight american males are stereotypically racist, homophobic, misogynistic gun-toting bigots. Trust me, I hate those people as much as you do.
I'm a nerd. I like numbers and D&D. I like mixing them together. Sorry if that was taken the wrong way in my first few posts.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Going through some of this talk is a bit much but it has made me realize I have not been introducing any LBGTQ+ characters into my campaign. I am not gay nor do I play with any gay people but I think adding LBGTQ+ characters would still be good even if none of my players would directly connect with their life choices. I'm taking this thread as a win for me, thanks everyone.
*edit*
Before this gets out of hand, I have no problem with LGTBQ+ people and I don't not allow them in my campaign or something. Everyone is welcome at my table. It just hasn't happened is all.
@Yurei1453: I know, right? You step away for a bit, maybe sleep in a little, only to log on and find "Holy ****balls mother of god, WHY IS EVERYTHING ON FIRE?!?!
@LeviRocks: It's okay, we understand you were just trying to be supportive in your own way. Just understand that these sorts of subjects hit very close to home for some people, so we can be a little sensitive to them when they arise. *He says, deliberately ignoring the raging inferno behind him.*
I can get the "sensitive to this subject" bit. Sorry about that. I too know what it's like to be "forced in a closet". I have autism.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I'm autistic too, so I feel you 100% man.