SRD is free so that will be free. You will be able to create a character for free using the SRD (which we all know is useless). You will have access to a restrictive number of slots for characters for free.
New content will cost money. You could buy the whole pack (PHB, SCAG, etc) or you could buy class packs (Warlock, Fighter, etc).
If you need more character slots or you need to access the network services that require storage (aka homebrew material) then you will need to pay a subscription service. Storage cost $$ in IT.
SRD is free so that will be free. You will be able to create a character for free using the SRD (which we all know is useless). You will have access to a restrictive number of slots for characters for free.
New content will cost money. You could buy the whole pack (PHB, SCAG, etc) or you could buy class packs (Warlock, Fighter, etc).
If you need more character slots or you need to access the network services that require storage (aka homebrew material) then you will need to pay a subscription service. Storage cost $$ in IT.
I don't know about that though. Even beyond character creation, the SRD is reeeeally useless. A lot of iconic D&D elements are missing from the SRD even as a compendium. Like the icon for Aberrations is a Beholder, but Beholders aren't even in the SRD so it's not in the compendium lol
If I was in charge of pricing, I would start by offering two "early adoption" packages: One for the DMs that offered all of the hardbound book material up to this point at a fair onetime price. And then a reasonably priced package for players that only includes all content from PHB and additional character slots. These would only be available for a limited time and would eliminate the need to come up with some expensive system to figure out who bought what in the past. Then after the limited timeframe, for any new content moving forward or if a new player or DM needed to buy prior released materials, you could buy a monthly subscription or buy the product one time at full price. I would also include a onetime use coupon code in any future books that lets the buyer purchase the digital content at a reduced price. All new books would come wrapped in plastic or have a sealed envelope attached to the inside cover so someone does not steal your code.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Roll the dice and play the game, I’m not here to listen to your politics.
“But this isn’t right. You’re meant to charge in, sword drawn, banner flying-that’s what all the other knights did!” “Yeah, right before they burst into flame.”
I'm hoping that the D&D Basic rules will be incorporated for free as well, since it goes beyond the SRD in a number of areas, at least as far as character creation is concerned. It still doesn't have a lot of the iconic D&D monsters, though. Since D&D Beyond obviously has a license to D&D, this could be something that sets this service apart from the dozens of other sites that are already hosting 5e SRD content for free.
I wonder if they have like a "the complete fighter" type pack will that be updated as new stuff comes out? Like it might be worth paying for each class separately if you get all relevent updates. As opposed to buying the phb and then needing to buy whatever resource has new fighter content.
I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of paying a subscription to be able to add homebrew. It's presumably going to be a static import feature, why should I pay for it multiple times over? I'd be very happy to pay a one-time fee for homebrew integration - if overall the app ends up being high-quality and full-featured, I'd potentially be willing to pay a relatively high fee for that. But a continued subscription I wouldn't be very happy about, and so I would strongly consider finding alternative services.
As far as content goes, I agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here: if someone has already bought a book, they shouldn't have to pay full price again to get it here. I don't think it should be completely free though. Building the website and apps takes time, effort, and money; so does putting all the information into the site. I'd be happy to pay again for material I've bought, as long as it's a reduced price. In UK money, buying a physical book costs around £30 usually, so I'd be willing to pay about £5 on top of that to get it available digitally. Anything above £10 would definitely be too high.
I'd rather avoid subscriptions altogether, but one area I could see them potentially working is as an "all-access pass" for game content - pay £X per month and you can use any material that has been released so far. No separate costs for new books, just the subscription each month. If the price was right, that could definitely be worth it, though if you do go with that I think it should be an option alongside the more traditional "pay once per book", rather than the only option.
Edit: the one exception where I would accept a subscription for stuff like homebrew integration is if it was ridiculously low, as in less than £20 per annum. In terms of subscribing for content, not hb integration, I think that up to £10 could work, maybe with a lower tier at £5 with less content? Getting all content at £5 per month would be ideal from a consumer perspective, but I doubt it would make sense from a business perspective, given that that's only equivalent to 2 books per year.
tl;dr homebrew should be one-time, not subscription; content could provide an option of either.
Cost is always a concern for items like this. It is a nice feature and can be a big help to the community, but it isn't a necessity. We appreciate the time, effort, and cost of creating such a nice added feature, but many of us don't want to feel like this is a money-grabbing scheme by WOTC to be more like micro-transactions that are becoming all too popular in video games.
Personally, If you've purchased a hard copy, you should be able to have access to that content digitally for free. If you prefer to buy the content digitally only, it should be less costly than the physical $50 books. The cost of printing, shipping, etc.. a physical book is understandable, but digital materials, even in this format, have less overhead and that should be reflected in cost to the consumer.
The extras, like DM tool, character builder, and campaign management parts would be worth a monthly fee. Most of us do this now on our own or through 3rd party tools that are free, so the cost of the subscriptions would need to reflect that.
Overall, I look forward to using DDBeyond more as the betas and final product progress!
I think it is inevitable but not unjust if you will. I'm hoping that it will allow me easier access to the material and also, perhaps, at a much better price than what I currently have to deal with. I live outside of the US and in a country where Amazon deliveries gets taxed so heavily that it's almost not worth it to order the books. Some retailers sell them here, but they put over a 100% mark up on the material. (100USD for the player's handbook for instance).
So yes.
However, I do hope that any new content that they do release won't end up being exclusive to this app when it comes to fruition. That you'll still be able to purchase it through means such as the DMGuild or hard cover.
I think it is inevitable but not unjust if you will. I'm hoping that it will allow me easier access to the material and also, perhaps, at a much better price than what I currently have to deal with. I live outside of the US and in a country where Amazon deliveries gets taxed so heavily that it's almost not worth it to order the books. Some retailers sell them here, but they put over a 100% mark up on the material. (100USD for the player's handbook for instance).
So yes.
However, I do hope that any new content that they do release won't end up being exclusive to this app when it comes to fruition. That you'll still be able to purchase it through means such as the DMGuild or hard cover.
I'll buy the Fantasy Grounds module because I need it
But how about a nice voucher online code to redeem content I already own - they managed it with Dvds and blue rays what about with a book.
Even the thought of a $5 a month sub quickly turns into $180 over three years for nothing really.
They also do it with comics. Marvel provides a limited-time code for a free digital download of the issue. This could work well, especially for supplemental content.
I would be happy to pay a modest amount for a subscription because I'm paying for the tools. But I'm not fond of paying for books a second time.
I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of paying a subscription to be able to add homebrew. It's presumably going to be a static import feature, why should I pay for it multiple times over? I'd be very happy to pay a one-time fee for homebrew integration - if overall the app ends up being high-quality and full-featured, I'd potentially be willing to pay a relatively high fee for that. But a continued subscription I wouldn't be very happy about, and so I would strongly consider finding alternative services.
As far as content goes, I agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here: if someone has already bought a book, they shouldn't have to pay full price again to get it here. I don't think it should be completely free though. Building the website and apps takes time, effort, and money; so does putting all the information into the site. I'd be happy to pay again for material I've bought, as long as it's a reduced price. In UK money, buying a physical book costs around £30 usually, so I'd be willing to pay about £5 on top of that to get it available digitally. Anything above £10 would definitely be too high.
I'd rather avoid subscriptions altogether, but one area I could see them potentially working is as an "all-access pass" for game content - pay £X per month and you can use any material that has been released so far. No separate costs for new books, just the subscription each month. If the price was right, that could definitely be worth it, though if you do go with that I think it should be an option alongside the more traditional "pay once per book", rather than the only option.
Edit: the one exception where I would accept a subscription for stuff like homebrew integration is if it was ridiculously low, as in less than £20 per annum. In terms of subscribing for content, not hb integration, I think that up to £10 could work, maybe with a lower tier at £5 with less content? Getting all content at £5 per month would be ideal from a consumer perspective, but I doubt it would make sense from a business perspective, given that that's only equivalent to 2 books per year.
tl;dr homebrew should be one-time, not subscription; content could provide an option of either.
No one (including me) has said that adding homebrew will require a subscription. I can confirm players will be able to create their own content at no cost.
Now, the full picture (that I can't confirm quite yet) is probably needed before anyone freaks out one way or the other, but what I said above stands.
The code idea is a great one, It's like getting $xxx off the price of the book, while it is a gateway to get people to use dndbeyond. Everybody wins. Unfortunately I already have all the books, que sera, sera.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract. -RAH
It is easier to stay out than get out. -Twain
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable. -RAH
I would still like to see more conversation about all the people who purchased the Licensed WOTC material via Fantasy Grounds - being asked to pay full price for the material a third time only leads me to believe DnD 6 is around the corner........
Yes all the stuff on here is free (at the moment) because it's the stuff that is free in the System Reference Document - however you have a choice of scrolling through a pdf, or having a lovely system to search, filter, and navigate easily through. The subscription is to pay for a lovely filing cabinet that has the page you need as soon as you open it vs. shuffling through pages of unbound notes that aren't in order.
Have you been on http://www.5esrd.com/ though? It's similar to the Pathfinder SRD, and is perfectly functional. Sure, it's not as pretty as DDB, but it's as you say: "a lovely filing cabinet." I hardly ever use it though, because it only includes the SRD material; I frequently need stuff from the PHB, or the MM, or even Volo's guide. (You can find some of that stuff online anyway, btw.) If DDB doesn't include that content, then it is no more useful to me than the SRD website, and is certainly not worth paying for.
Edit: In any case, I think the staff that's working on this seems to have good grip on things. I'm sure that whatever they come up with will be pretty reasonable.
Don't understand this logic. No one made you buy anything. You paid for a physical copy and got it great. Just because they release a digital version doesn't entitle you to anything. If you want to be an early adopter it's going to cost you that's life. Printing and distribution cost money, so does coding and hosting. So you may have bought one version but that doesn't mean you paid for the work that goes into the other versions.
Don't understand this logic. No one made you buy anything. You paid for a physical copy and got it great. Just because they release a digital version doesn't entitle you to anything. If you want to be an early adopter it's going to cost you that's life. Printing and distribution cost money, so does coding and hosting. So you may have bought one version but that doesn't mean you paid for the work that goes into the other versions.
I believe the mentality is not "I'm entitled to a digital version" but, "I spent my money on physical books and can't/won't spend more money on a digital version".
While I agree that a mentality of entitlement is not correct, I think its perfectly reasonable for people to express that buying some new version isn't in their budget after spending money on the books already (physical or otherwise). I think its also pretty reasonable for people to strait up say what their price point for content is based on their own perspective of DnDBeyond's value to them. For some people these tools will have more value than for others. What's more if you've invested in physical books along with a lot of other resources people may have already leveraged their entertainment budget far enough that what disposable income they have for DnDBeyond is drastically different than others.
For me for instance, the Fantasy Grounds price points for buying their digital content are to high. The amount of value I get from their product is not comparable to the price for me. They have every right to charge what they feel their work is worth, I have every right to believe their price is to high. If DnDBeyond was as expensive as Fantasy Grounds? I won't buy/subscribe. For something a bit under the Netflix or Amazon Prime model I'd feel fine with DnDBeyond. If I'm rebuying books entirely (IE the cost per book is the same as the print) I'd also opt out of beyond because my disposable income covers 50 bucks every few months but not 100 and ultimately I value the physical books more than a digital product.
Ultimately the higher DnDBeyond's price point goes the better it must be to justify its price to people. But every person that uses DnDBeyond will have a different set of features they want in order to justify that price. So the higher that price, the more features they need to justify it to the maximum number of people, the better it needs to be. The job of Curse's discussion on this issue is to find the price point where their feature set attracts enough buyers/subscribers to break even. This is likely to still be high enough that many people will find it to high but enough for Curse and WotC to profit.
Don't understand this logic. No one made you buy anything. You paid for a physical copy and got it great. Just because they release a digital version doesn't entitle you to anything. If you want to be an early adopter it's going to cost you that's life. Printing and distribution cost money, so does coding and hosting. So you may have bought one version but that doesn't mean you paid for the work that goes into the other versions.
I believe the mentality is not "I'm entitled to a digital version" but, "I spent my money on physical books and can't/won't spend more money on a digital version".
While I agree that a mentality of entitlement is not correct, I think its perfectly reasonable for people to express that buying some new version isn't in their budget after spending money on the books already (physical or otherwise). I think its also pretty reasonable for people to strait up say what their price point for content is based on their own perspective of DnDBeyond's value to them. For some people these tools will have more value than for others. What's more if you've invested in physical books along with a lot of other resources people may have already leveraged their entertainment budget far enough that what disposable income they have for DnDBeyond is drastically different than others.
For me for instance, the Fantasy Grounds price points for buying their digital content are to high. The amount of value I get from their product is not comparable to the price for me. They have every right to charge what they feel their work is worth, I have every right to believe their price is to high. If DnDBeyond was as expensive as Fantasy Grounds? I won't buy/subscribe. For something a bit under the Netflix or Amazon Prime model I'd feel fine with DnDBeyond. If I'm rebuying books entirely (IE the cost per book is the same as the print) I'd also opt out of beyond because my disposable income covers 50 bucks every few months but not 100 and ultimately I value the physical books more than a digital product.
Ultimately the higher DnDBeyond's price point goes the better it must be to justify its price to people. But every person that uses DnDBeyond will have a different set of features they want in order to justify that price. So the higher that price, the more features they need to justify it to the maximum number of people, the better it needs to be. The job of Curse's discussion on this issue is to find the price point where their feature set attracts enough buyers/subscribers to break even. This is likely to still be high enough that many people will find it to high but enough for Curse and WotC to profit.
Thank you for so concisely laying this out. This is what I've been having trouble articulating.
In thinking about pricing models that I can and would readily do, some combo of Netflix/Amazon/Xbox live keeps coming to mind. I think some flexibility in plan choices would benefit people a lot.
A short free trial
A monthly subscription fee
An annual fee with a slight overall discount
A lifetime membership
For someone like myself, still fairly new to DnD, asking for an annual fee or one-off membership fee would be prohibitive. I want to make sure this is a hobby I'm going to stick with (all indicators say hell yes) before I sign up for that. The nice thing about all the options being discussed is that there's a lot of flexibility to mix and matchh.
I am concerned with usibility to cost considerations...there are already a few good character builder apps out there with the ability to manually input information to let us use homebrew, or purchased, but non open classes and the like. I would need to see a marked improvement over what is already available to consider switching. For that matter there are programs that let you run full campaigns complete with all the rules in the books, so how will this be diffrent? Looking forward to a responce!
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I think the model is clear already.
SRD is free so that will be free. You will be able to create a character for free using the SRD (which we all know is useless). You will have access to a restrictive number of slots for characters for free.
New content will cost money. You could buy the whole pack (PHB, SCAG, etc) or you could buy class packs (Warlock, Fighter, etc).
If you need more character slots or you need to access the network services that require storage (aka homebrew material) then you will need to pay a subscription service. Storage cost $$ in IT.
Daplunk's YouTube Channel: Realm Works and Hero Lab Videos / Campaign Cartographer 3+ Videos
Realm Works Facebook User Group
I would be fine with a subscription. Even if it's a tiered one with levels of access, but nothing over 10 bucks.
If I was in charge of pricing, I would start by offering two "early adoption" packages: One for the DMs that offered all of the hardbound book material up to this point at a fair onetime price. And then a reasonably priced package for players that only includes all content from PHB and additional character slots. These would only be available for a limited time and would eliminate the need to come up with some expensive system to figure out who bought what in the past. Then after the limited timeframe, for any new content moving forward or if a new player or DM needed to buy prior released materials, you could buy a monthly subscription or buy the product one time at full price. I would also include a onetime use coupon code in any future books that lets the buyer purchase the digital content at a reduced price. All new books would come wrapped in plastic or have a sealed envelope attached to the inside cover so someone does not steal your code.
Roll the dice and play the game, I’m not here to listen to your politics.
“But this isn’t right. You’re meant to charge in, sword drawn, banner flying-that’s what all the other knights did!”
“Yeah, right before they burst into flame.”
I'm hoping that the D&D Basic rules will be incorporated for free as well, since it goes beyond the SRD in a number of areas, at least as far as character creation is concerned. It still doesn't have a lot of the iconic D&D monsters, though. Since D&D Beyond obviously has a license to D&D, this could be something that sets this service apart from the dozens of other sites that are already hosting 5e SRD content for free.
Yup that's the point. Get your wallet ready to get through that pay gate.
Daplunk's YouTube Channel: Realm Works and Hero Lab Videos / Campaign Cartographer 3+ Videos
Realm Works Facebook User Group
I wonder if they have like a "the complete fighter" type pack will that be updated as new stuff comes out? Like it might be worth paying for each class separately if you get all relevent updates. As opposed to buying the phb and then needing to buy whatever resource has new fighter content.
I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of paying a subscription to be able to add homebrew. It's presumably going to be a static import feature, why should I pay for it multiple times over? I'd be very happy to pay a one-time fee for homebrew integration - if overall the app ends up being high-quality and full-featured, I'd potentially be willing to pay a relatively high fee for that. But a continued subscription I wouldn't be very happy about, and so I would strongly consider finding alternative services.
As far as content goes, I agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here: if someone has already bought a book, they shouldn't have to pay full price again to get it here. I don't think it should be completely free though. Building the website and apps takes time, effort, and money; so does putting all the information into the site. I'd be happy to pay again for material I've bought, as long as it's a reduced price. In UK money, buying a physical book costs around £30 usually, so I'd be willing to pay about £5 on top of that to get it available digitally. Anything above £10 would definitely be too high.
I'd rather avoid subscriptions altogether, but one area I could see them potentially working is as an "all-access pass" for game content - pay £X per month and you can use any material that has been released so far. No separate costs for new books, just the subscription each month. If the price was right, that could definitely be worth it, though if you do go with that I think it should be an option alongside the more traditional "pay once per book", rather than the only option.
Edit: the one exception where I would accept a subscription for stuff like homebrew integration is if it was ridiculously low, as in less than £20 per annum. In terms of subscribing for content, not hb integration, I think that up to £10 could work, maybe with a lower tier at £5 with less content? Getting all content at £5 per month would be ideal from a consumer perspective, but I doubt it would make sense from a business perspective, given that that's only equivalent to 2 books per year.
tl;dr homebrew should be one-time, not subscription; content could provide an option of either.
Cost is always a concern for items like this. It is a nice feature and can be a big help to the community, but it isn't a necessity. We appreciate the time, effort, and cost of creating such a nice added feature, but many of us don't want to feel like this is a money-grabbing scheme by WOTC to be more like micro-transactions that are becoming all too popular in video games.
Personally, If you've purchased a hard copy, you should be able to have access to that content digitally for free. If you prefer to buy the content digitally only, it should be less costly than the physical $50 books. The cost of printing, shipping, etc.. a physical book is understandable, but digital materials, even in this format, have less overhead and that should be reflected in cost to the consumer.
The extras, like DM tool, character builder, and campaign management parts would be worth a monthly fee. Most of us do this now on our own or through 3rd party tools that are free, so the cost of the subscriptions would need to reflect that.
Overall, I look forward to using DDBeyond more as the betas and final product progress!
-Wielder of the Enchanted Spatula.
I think it is inevitable but not unjust if you will. I'm hoping that it will allow me easier access to the material and also, perhaps, at a much better price than what I currently have to deal with. I live outside of the US and in a country where Amazon deliveries gets taxed so heavily that it's almost not worth it to order the books. Some retailers sell them here, but they put over a 100% mark up on the material. (100USD for the player's handbook for instance).
So yes.
However, I do hope that any new content that they do release won't end up being exclusive to this app when it comes to fruition. That you'll still be able to purchase it through means such as the DMGuild or hard cover.
I think it is inevitable but not unjust if you will. I'm hoping that it will allow me easier access to the material and also, perhaps, at a much better price than what I currently have to deal with. I live outside of the US and in a country where Amazon deliveries gets taxed so heavily that it's almost not worth it to order the books. Some retailers sell them here, but they put over a 100% mark up on the material. (100USD for the player's handbook for instance).
So yes.
However, I do hope that any new content that they do release won't end up being exclusive to this app when it comes to fruition. That you'll still be able to purchase it through means such as the DMGuild or hard cover.
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D&D Beyond FoundersThe code idea is a great one, It's like getting $xxx off the price of the book, while it is a gateway to get people to use dndbeyond. Everybody wins. Unfortunately I already have all the books, que sera, sera.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract. -RAH
It is easier to stay out than get out. -Twain
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable. -RAH
I would still like to see more conversation about all the people who purchased the Licensed WOTC material via Fantasy Grounds - being asked to pay full price for the material a third time only leads me to believe DnD 6 is around the corner........
Don't understand this logic. No one made you buy anything. You paid for a physical copy and got it great. Just because they release a digital version doesn't entitle you to anything. If you want to be an early adopter it's going to cost you that's life. Printing and distribution cost money, so does coding and hosting. So you may have bought one version but that doesn't mean you paid for the work that goes into the other versions.
For someone like myself, still fairly new to DnD, asking for an annual fee or one-off membership fee would be prohibitive. I want to make sure this is a hobby I'm going to stick with (all indicators say hell yes) before I sign up for that. The nice thing about all the options being discussed is that there's a lot of flexibility to mix and matchh.
I am concerned with usibility to cost considerations...there are already a few good character builder apps out there with the ability to manually input information to let us use homebrew, or purchased, but non open classes and the like. I would need to see a marked improvement over what is already available to consider switching. For that matter there are programs that let you run full campaigns complete with all the rules in the books, so how will this be diffrent? Looking forward to a responce!