Can you clarify one thing in plain terms: If i create a Wizard with 2014 character sheet, will I be able to view 2014 spells from that sheet, and have rollable versions of the 2014 spells from character sheets?
Can you clarify one thing in plain terms: If i create a Wizard with 2014 character sheet, will I be able to view 2014 spells from that sheet, and have rollable versions of the 2014 spells from character sheets?
You cannot create a wizard with a 2014 character sheet. You can create a wizard with 2014 race, class, and subclass, but it will use the 2024 sheet. This will mean that rules for eg Hiding shown on your character sheet will relate to the 2024 version.
You will not have access to 2014 spells in the character builder. You will be able to add 2024 spells and just remember that the spell description and any automation (eg rolling dice on screen) is wrong. Alternatively, you can homebrew all the 2014 spells you need, and then add your homebrew spells.
If you get a magic item that grants spells, it will grant 2024 versions of those spells. Again, you will need to homebrew the item if you want it to grant the 2014 version of the spell.
For a wizard, you are probably okay; other classes that gain specific spells through their class, invocations, or subclasses are worse hit. If you are homebrewing the 2014 spells I would strongly advise you do it soon while you can copy the old spell - if you wait until the spells have updated, you'll have to manually recreate the 2014 spell from scratch as it will be deleted from the character builder.
I have the books. the subscription im paying is for the character sheets and if the content I want to use isn't accessible, why on earth would I keep paying my subscription?
I'm just going to add my voice to the dozens of others. Because that's what's needed, here.
I understand that as time goes on, content evolves. I understand that it's important, particularly from a business perspective, for you to make the newly evolved content accessible, and try to pull as many people to it as you can.
I also understand this: when I came to the hobby in 2017, I felt overwhelmed by the amount of content I needed to read and come to terms with. I wanted to start as a player (I think most of us do) and figuring out how to hop around to dozens of different pages in order to grab all of the information needed just to make a Level 1 character felt daunting. I get to choose a skill proficiency on this page, but I better make sure it doesn't overlap with a more limited list of skill choices on another page, or I'll just have to go back and change it. I just learned what stats should be my highest on this page, so let me now flip back to this page to figure out what my modifiers are on this page. This section wants me to list out all of my abilities from this page, but the character sheet really doesn't give me a lot of room to hand-write all of it; should I grab a notebook page and copy it down that way? Or should I just have the PHb open to this section whenever we play for quick reference?
This isn't a new or unique experience. Not by a mile. And it's very doable. It's been doable since the hobby started 50 years ago.
But in the age of technology, someone (many someone's) decided there was an easier way, and they endeavored to make it. They decided that this game could be enjoyed by so many more people, if only there was a tool that simplified and streamlined some of the harder parts of getting into the game. I've never spoken to the original developers of this website, but I think I have a pretty firm understanding of what it was for. They made a character builder that summarized abilities, simplified choices, and eased the minds of stressed out newbies.
It carried with it the added benefit of saving time for busy adults. That's who spends money on your games, WotC: adults. Kids play. Kids can play. Kids should play. But the money you're making is coming almost exclusively from your adult players, and the parents of your child players. Don't mistake that. It is adults whom you need to answer to, right now, something your Hasbro Big Brother might not be wholly familiar with, but it's the truth, nonetheless.
This is what people paid money for for the last five years. To have a simplified, time-saving tool at their fingertips that would allow them to swiftly and efficiently produce and reference character sheets for abilities, feats, racial bonuses, magic items, etc. That's what we wanted. That's what we paid to get. Even before you acquired this website, that is all that we wanted, and what we were giving up our hard earned money for.
Now you're taking it away. Oh, sure, there's still a tool there. But if you want to continue playing the exact same game that you started when you joined this website (like I currently am) with the same rules you'd already picked up because you're an adult and you don't have the time to sit down and parse through the rules and figure out what works and what doesn't (because let's be real, a lot of it doesn't), then your options go away. You might as well have the hand-written character sheet, with the reference to a page number, because that's what you're going to have to do from now on - write down "Sunburst, pg 279" and reference back to it, just like back in the day.
We can do that. We've always been able to do that. We paid for the chance to do something a little simpler. A tool that's brought hundreds, if not thousands of people to the hobby, because it acted as a learning tool, and helped move people to your hobby.
You're trying to replicate the things that happened that brought people to 5e in the first place. I get it. Make them use the tool that brought them to 5e, for 5.5, instead, and then they'll buy the books and give you more money.
But I need money, too. And I already spent mine - hundreds of it - to use this tool to play my 5e campaign, with my 5e module and my players' 5e character sheets (PS, I'm now the DM). I bought hundreds of dollars in Sourcebook material to give my players access to classes and subclasses, as well as magic items and spells. That's being taken away. And if you can take that away, you can take the rest of it away. That's the voice that's in my head. Today, it's "just" the magic items and spells, which you can still reference. But before long, it'll be the 5e game rules. Pretty soon, our 5e content, which we paid for, will be buried in the back reaches of the website. It'll become harder and harder to get to until 5e players that are still attempting to utilize this website have only two choices left: convert to 5.5, or move off of the website altogether.
I assure you, I intend to leave long before we reach that point.
I can't even unsubscribe when I try to bring up the page. When I click on either the Manage your account button, or the My Subscription option in the personal drop down menu I get a message reading: This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below. (When I clicked your link it takes me to the same message)
Looking at the Bug and Support section of the Forums where I posted about this and my issues with downloading my character's pdf sheets, there are others having the same problem. No replies from DDB on the issues either. There is also a blue dot next to my "My Subscription" option too. Not sure what's going on with that.
Whatever they are doing behind the scenes are messing the functionality of some players' pages-both character sheets, and personal info pages. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, but some might assume that this is intentional. New code can break things, and it seems whatever they are working on is doing just that.
It's especially frustrating for those of us trying to save our character sheets as pdfs on our laptops/computers. I only have a few days in which to do this in order to save the 2014 builds due to family obligations over the Labor Day weekend, so this is majorly impacting me and angering me further. Hope others aren't in the same boat, and if you are make sure you let them know!!
When I paid for the content, it was under the notion that it was permanent.
This is NOTa defense of Wizbro but as has been pointed out, the fine print of the agreement between consumer and DDB explicitly says they can, essentially pull content at any time. We all had the opportunity to read and either agree or not. (I didn't take the time but also sort of assumed that kind of disclaimer was part of the agreement, as it's typical language for content providers.)
It's probably a good idea to assume no digital purchases are "permanent" - Amazon (again, not using them as the paragon of good business practices) has legalese that tells consumers that purchased digital content - books, movies, music - can be pulled at any time and is not actually "owned" by the consumer.
It sucks, and it's frustrating, but it's not something new or altogether surprising.
Yeah yeah yeah same goes when people talk about video games. "Buying a revocable license not the game itself" blah blah blah. You keep customers by providing a good service. This is not running a good service. Is it legal? Yeah, probably when all of the fine print is said and done. Is it moral and right to the customers? No.
Again, I don't like, endorse, or support what WOTC is doing with the 2014 content. I think it's a very poorly thought out approach to bringing folks into the new version and it's an incredibly dismissive approach to thousands (millions?) of people who paid for access to the online content for ease of use while using their character sheet.
All of that is true. And people's anger is real and very understandable. It's also true that it's up to us to be smart, informed consumers and not make assumptions that for-profit corporations are our pals and give a sh!t about our feelings or what we've bought thus far. It's true that every one of us here, with paid accounts, had the opportunity to read the legal disclaimer and implicitly accepted the agreement that allows WOTC to pull content when and how they want.
So bottom line, I find two things to be true: WOTC"s handling of this is very, very sh*tty, and people who assumed they'd have permanent/perpetual access to content, even when new versions of the game had been introduced, were not thinking realistically about how all of this works.
"Purchasing a digital copy of this book unlocks it for use in the D&D BEYOND compendium and toolset."
That's what it says in Tasha's, Monsters of the Multiverse and Xanathar's, which can still be bought, on the page where you can buy those. You are now removing that toolset integration. Do you think that's strictly legal in all countries you are selling to?
Roll20 is offering the option to use either format. I don't see why DDB can't do the same. If they don't they will be losing quite a few folks to those who do have that feature.
Also, for anyone wanting to homebrew the spells, a friend posted this on our discord server: NerdImmersion is cataloging the spell changes for the community - around 100 spells got at least minimal updates. Users would still have to brew them on their own to use in Beyond, since you can't publish homebrew that is too similar to official materials, but it at least makes it easier. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAS66eKR83Yarfso_Y8kyzA/community?lb=UgkxEhnoN84N4pOD0UbxwKwL-sf-xUbgE7bj
100 spells is fairly hefty for somebody limited in the amount of time they have to homebrew the stuff that's disappearing in only 10 days.
If I, and many others, lose the ability to use all of the 5e information and characters sheets that we PAID (and continue to pay) a lot of money for to create and view our characters, and thus lose the ability to even view our currently existing characters, I hope you are prepared for the mass exodus of subscribed members. Because none of my groups have any intention of fully leaving 5e, so if we lose access to all of our 5e character sheets, then what even is the point of staying on this website and paying money to a company that seems to hate their client base?
Leaving the existing content available for play should be an option, especially since many people- myself included- purchased sourcebooks to be able to use the character creator and modify character sheets as desired. Completely replacing or removing things in favor of the new ruleset makes continuing to use Beyond with intention for long-term use pointless, because the content that you own may simply be ignored in future updates, requiring significant work-arounds to make the old entries viable for those that choose to use them. Adding the ability to toggle legacy content should be relatively easy, especially given there are already systems in place for this and other 3rd party content.
The framework is already here. We have 2014 sheets.
Just make a new sheet option for 2024. There is no reason at all to completely shift to 2024 only and you know it. A new option at the very beginning of 'make a character' to hit 2014 or 2024, bam. This is just greedy, and it's not even going to make money. People say this is the reality of gaming, but it's not. It's what big companies want it to be, right up until they start loosing money because people say it's stupid.
oh joy, something I didn't ask for is shoved down my throat and I should just be happy for the possibility to use 2024 book. I have no plan for updating, there is nothing in the new books that is appealing for our group. Now what little spark might have been brewing is definitely snuffed out.
Have two systems, one for 2014 and one for the new, legacy is nothing new. But this is apparently a small indie company...
Um, Hasbro owns Dnd and DnDBeyond. They bought out WotC in 1999, so they are neither small nor Indie, just greedy.
Side note: After thinking it over, I'm going to hold my action regarding cancelling my subscription until after Sept. 3rd to see what happens. If, at that point, they end up majorly screwing over their playerbase I will be cancelling it then. So, waiting and seeing on this. Not sure if they're gonna pull their heads out of their Tuckuses, but there's always hope...
Um, Hasbro owns Dnd and DnDBeyond. They bought out WotC in 1999, so they are neither small nor Indie, just greedy.
'Small, indie company' is a sarcastic comment used for massive companies (I think it started with Microsoft-Activision-Blizzard,) it's a tongue in cheek way to say they couldn't possibly have the money to implement what Roll20 and Foundry have already done (that being the option to just keep your 2014 sheet).
It's not meant to be taken seriously, it's a jibe at perceived incompetent decisions by companies (and not the people at them, the majority of whom probably agree that this move is silly!)
Just to add to the screeching noise, I've not had a response to my post in this thread or my support ticket from earlier in the week, so I've advised my players that we will be moving off D&D Beyond.
Um, Hasbro owns Dnd and DnDBeyond. They bought out WotC in 1999, so they are neither small nor Indie, just greedy.
'Small, indie company' is a sarcastic comment used for massive companies (I think it started with Microsoft-Activision-Blizzard,) it's a tongue in cheek way to say they couldn't possibly have the money to implement what Roll20 and Foundry have already done (that being the option to just keep your 2014 sheet).
It's not meant to be taken seriously, it's a jibe at perceived incompetent decisions by companies (and not the people at them, the majority of whom probably agree that this move is silly!)
Just to add to the screeching noise, I've not had a response to my post in this thread or my support ticket from earlier in the week, so I've advised my players that we will be moving off D&D Beyond.
Doh!! My bad! Lol...
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
Here is that I get when I tried to cancel my subscription. Real class move trying to prevent customers from cancelling:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/store/subscriptions/manage
They try really hard to hide how to unsubscribe.
Can you clarify one thing in plain terms: If i create a Wizard with 2014 character sheet, will I be able to view 2014 spells from that sheet, and have rollable versions of the 2014 spells from character sheets?
You cannot create a wizard with a 2014 character sheet. You can create a wizard with 2014 race, class, and subclass, but it will use the 2024 sheet. This will mean that rules for eg Hiding shown on your character sheet will relate to the 2024 version.
You will not have access to 2014 spells in the character builder. You will be able to add 2024 spells and just remember that the spell description and any automation (eg rolling dice on screen) is wrong. Alternatively, you can homebrew all the 2014 spells you need, and then add your homebrew spells.
If you get a magic item that grants spells, it will grant 2024 versions of those spells. Again, you will need to homebrew the item if you want it to grant the 2014 version of the spell.
For a wizard, you are probably okay; other classes that gain specific spells through their class, invocations, or subclasses are worse hit. If you are homebrewing the 2014 spells I would strongly advise you do it soon while you can copy the old spell - if you wait until the spells have updated, you'll have to manually recreate the 2014 spell from scratch as it will be deleted from the character builder.
100%
I have the books. the subscription im paying is for the character sheets and if the content I want to use isn't accessible, why on earth would I keep paying my subscription?
I'm just going to add my voice to the dozens of others. Because that's what's needed, here.
I understand that as time goes on, content evolves. I understand that it's important, particularly from a business perspective, for you to make the newly evolved content accessible, and try to pull as many people to it as you can.
I also understand this: when I came to the hobby in 2017, I felt overwhelmed by the amount of content I needed to read and come to terms with. I wanted to start as a player (I think most of us do) and figuring out how to hop around to dozens of different pages in order to grab all of the information needed just to make a Level 1 character felt daunting. I get to choose a skill proficiency on this page, but I better make sure it doesn't overlap with a more limited list of skill choices on another page, or I'll just have to go back and change it. I just learned what stats should be my highest on this page, so let me now flip back to this page to figure out what my modifiers are on this page. This section wants me to list out all of my abilities from this page, but the character sheet really doesn't give me a lot of room to hand-write all of it; should I grab a notebook page and copy it down that way? Or should I just have the PHb open to this section whenever we play for quick reference?
This isn't a new or unique experience. Not by a mile. And it's very doable. It's been doable since the hobby started 50 years ago.
But in the age of technology, someone (many someone's) decided there was an easier way, and they endeavored to make it. They decided that this game could be enjoyed by so many more people, if only there was a tool that simplified and streamlined some of the harder parts of getting into the game. I've never spoken to the original developers of this website, but I think I have a pretty firm understanding of what it was for. They made a character builder that summarized abilities, simplified choices, and eased the minds of stressed out newbies.
It carried with it the added benefit of saving time for busy adults. That's who spends money on your games, WotC: adults. Kids play. Kids can play. Kids should play. But the money you're making is coming almost exclusively from your adult players, and the parents of your child players. Don't mistake that. It is adults whom you need to answer to, right now, something your Hasbro Big Brother might not be wholly familiar with, but it's the truth, nonetheless.
This is what people paid money for for the last five years. To have a simplified, time-saving tool at their fingertips that would allow them to swiftly and efficiently produce and reference character sheets for abilities, feats, racial bonuses, magic items, etc. That's what we wanted. That's what we paid to get. Even before you acquired this website, that is all that we wanted, and what we were giving up our hard earned money for.
Now you're taking it away. Oh, sure, there's still a tool there. But if you want to continue playing the exact same game that you started when you joined this website (like I currently am) with the same rules you'd already picked up because you're an adult and you don't have the time to sit down and parse through the rules and figure out what works and what doesn't (because let's be real, a lot of it doesn't), then your options go away. You might as well have the hand-written character sheet, with the reference to a page number, because that's what you're going to have to do from now on - write down "Sunburst, pg 279" and reference back to it, just like back in the day.
We can do that. We've always been able to do that. We paid for the chance to do something a little simpler. A tool that's brought hundreds, if not thousands of people to the hobby, because it acted as a learning tool, and helped move people to your hobby.
You're trying to replicate the things that happened that brought people to 5e in the first place. I get it. Make them use the tool that brought them to 5e, for 5.5, instead, and then they'll buy the books and give you more money.
But I need money, too. And I already spent mine - hundreds of it - to use this tool to play my 5e campaign, with my 5e module and my players' 5e character sheets (PS, I'm now the DM). I bought hundreds of dollars in Sourcebook material to give my players access to classes and subclasses, as well as magic items and spells. That's being taken away. And if you can take that away, you can take the rest of it away. That's the voice that's in my head. Today, it's "just" the magic items and spells, which you can still reference. But before long, it'll be the 5e game rules. Pretty soon, our 5e content, which we paid for, will be buried in the back reaches of the website. It'll become harder and harder to get to until 5e players that are still attempting to utilize this website have only two choices left: convert to 5.5, or move off of the website altogether.
I assure you, I intend to leave long before we reach that point.
I've spent years telling people that DnD isn't an MMO. We aren't forced to update, we can play it however we see fit.
Apparently, that is no longer the case. Shame on you.
I can't even unsubscribe when I try to bring up the page. When I click on either the Manage your account button, or the My Subscription option in the personal drop down menu I get a message reading: This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below. (When I clicked your link it takes me to the same message)
Looking at the Bug and Support section of the Forums where I posted about this and my issues with downloading my character's pdf sheets, there are others having the same problem. No replies from DDB on the issues either. There is also a blue dot next to my "My Subscription" option too. Not sure what's going on with that.
Whatever they are doing behind the scenes are messing the functionality of some players' pages-both character sheets, and personal info pages. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, but some might assume that this is intentional. New code can break things, and it seems whatever they are working on is doing just that.
It's especially frustrating for those of us trying to save our character sheets as pdfs on our laptops/computers. I only have a few days in which to do this in order to save the 2014 builds due to family obligations over the Labor Day weekend, so this is majorly impacting me and angering me further. Hope others aren't in the same boat, and if you are make sure you let them know!!
Those clarifications were entirely unnecessary. It's not unclear how the new integration of 2014 5e works, we just hate it.
Again, I don't like, endorse, or support what WOTC is doing with the 2014 content. I think it's a very poorly thought out approach to bringing folks into the new version and it's an incredibly dismissive approach to thousands (millions?) of people who paid for access to the online content for ease of use while using their character sheet.
All of that is true. And people's anger is real and very understandable. It's also true that it's up to us to be smart, informed consumers and not make assumptions that for-profit corporations are our pals and give a sh!t about our feelings or what we've bought thus far. It's true that every one of us here, with paid accounts, had the opportunity to read the legal disclaimer and implicitly accepted the agreement that allows WOTC to pull content when and how they want.
So bottom line, I find two things to be true: WOTC"s handling of this is very, very sh*tty, and people who assumed they'd have permanent/perpetual access to content, even when new versions of the game had been introduced, were not thinking realistically about how all of this works.
"Purchasing a digital copy of this book unlocks it for use in the D&D BEYOND compendium and toolset."
That's what it says in Tasha's, Monsters of the Multiverse and Xanathar's, which can still be bought, on the page where you can buy those. You are now removing that toolset integration. Do you think that's strictly legal in all countries you are selling to?
Roll20 is offering the option to use either format. I don't see why DDB can't do the same. If they don't they will be losing quite a few folks to those who do have that feature.
Also, for anyone wanting to homebrew the spells, a friend posted this on our discord server: NerdImmersion is cataloging the spell changes for the community - around 100 spells got at least minimal updates. Users would still have to brew them on their own to use in Beyond, since you can't publish homebrew that is too similar to official materials, but it at least makes it easier. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAS66eKR83Yarfso_Y8kyzA/community?lb=UgkxEhnoN84N4pOD0UbxwKwL-sf-xUbgE7bj
100 spells is fairly hefty for somebody limited in the amount of time they have to homebrew the stuff that's disappearing in only 10 days.
If I, and many others, lose the ability to use all of the 5e information and characters sheets that we PAID (and continue to pay) a lot of money for to create and view our characters, and thus lose the ability to even view our currently existing characters, I hope you are prepared for the mass exodus of subscribed members. Because none of my groups have any intention of fully leaving 5e, so if we lose access to all of our 5e character sheets, then what even is the point of staying on this website and paying money to a company that seems to hate their client base?
Leaving the existing content available for play should be an option, especially since many people- myself included- purchased sourcebooks to be able to use the character creator and modify character sheets as desired. Completely replacing or removing things in favor of the new ruleset makes continuing to use Beyond with intention for long-term use pointless, because the content that you own may simply be ignored in future updates, requiring significant work-arounds to make the old entries viable for those that choose to use them. Adding the ability to toggle legacy content should be relatively easy, especially given there are already systems in place for this and other 3rd party content.
The framework is already here. We have 2014 sheets.
Just make a new sheet option for 2024. There is no reason at all to completely shift to 2024 only and you know it. A new option at the very beginning of 'make a character' to hit 2014 or 2024, bam. This is just greedy, and it's not even going to make money. People say this is the reality of gaming, but it's not. It's what big companies want it to be, right up until they start loosing money because people say it's stupid.
oh joy, something I didn't ask for is shoved down my throat and I should just be happy for the possibility to use 2024 book. I have no plan for updating, there is nothing in the new books that is appealing for our group. Now what little spark might have been brewing is definitely snuffed out.
Have two systems, one for 2014 and one for the new, legacy is nothing new. But this is apparently a small indie company...
Um, Hasbro owns Dnd and DnDBeyond. They bought out WotC in 1999, so they are neither small nor Indie, just greedy.
Side note: After thinking it over, I'm going to hold my action regarding cancelling my subscription until after Sept. 3rd to see what happens. If, at that point, they end up majorly screwing over their playerbase I will be cancelling it then. So, waiting and seeing on this. Not sure if they're gonna pull their heads out of their Tuckuses, but there's always hope...
'Small, indie company' is a sarcastic comment used for massive companies (I think it started with Microsoft-Activision-Blizzard,) it's a tongue in cheek way to say they couldn't possibly have the money to implement what Roll20 and Foundry have already done (that being the option to just keep your 2014 sheet).
It's not meant to be taken seriously, it's a jibe at perceived incompetent decisions by companies (and not the people at them, the majority of whom probably agree that this move is silly!)
Just to add to the screeching noise, I've not had a response to my post in this thread or my support ticket from earlier in the week, so I've advised my players that we will be moving off D&D Beyond.
Doh!! My bad! Lol...