On a subscription based website I think it's unreasonable to say Hasbro do not have the resources to do something as universal in modern web design as a toggle between an old and a new text file. (They do manage to toggle just fine between historic and standard MTG cards on their other MTG services for example.)
So the question is "Does the business care enough to do it?"
If the answer is yes then I think it's reasonable for the company to ask for time.
If the answer is no then I think it's reasonable for people to be upset that a website they have been paying a subscription fee to has less filter features than a website designed by a crypto scam artist.
Except you're forgetting that they've made the promise that the 2024 rules will be available on 9/3. So it's not as easy as asking for time either. No matter what way they go, they're messing someone up. Unless they fork the site and call it a day. #DDBClassic
From what i understand, they also have promised full compatibility between 2014 and 2024 rules... they are breaking that promise right now~ All in all, they really didnt plan this out..
The problem with the compatibility argument is that they promised compatibility in rules which they have provided fully in the 2024 PHB. The D&D Beyond toolset isn't necessarily part of that promise so far as I've seem. though if you have a source I'd love to get educated.
I agree that they didn't plan this out as well as they should've in terms of customer impact analysis.
#DDBClassic
The toolset uses the rules. Without those rules, it doesn't function. All it's doing is executing the values fed into it by those rules. So the toolset would be compatible by default.
Thanks for helping me with the final push to switch my games away from D&D 5e entirely. With the inability to use DDB without annoying digging through the compendium, this is the easy time to switch fully to a new system instead of just off DDB for my games.
On a subscription based website I think it's unreasonable to say Hasbro do not have the resources to do something as universal in modern web design as a toggle between an old and a new text file. (They do manage to toggle just fine between historic and standard MTG cards on their other MTG services for example.)
So the question is "Does the business care enough to do it?"
If the answer is yes then I think it's reasonable for the company to ask for time.
If the answer is no then I think it's reasonable for people to be upset that a website they have been paying a subscription fee to has less filter features than a website designed by a crypto scam artist.
Except you're forgetting that they've made the promise that the 2024 rules will be available on 9/3. So it's not as easy as asking for time either. No matter what way they go, they're messing someone up. Unless they fork the site and call it a day. #DDBClassic
That is a perfectly acceptable short term solution to this dumpster fire.
Agreed. I've been advocating for that solution all weekend. #DDBClassic
It's even a perfectly acceptable long-term solution.
There might be a case for breach of contract here. For those who have paid money, the agreement was essentially that we'd have access to the stuff we purchased. They're revoking that access in part (in the character sheet) and/or degrading the service we agreed to pay for.
I could definitely see this being an issue in the EU, which has far better consumer protection laws than the US.
Now I wonder if feats like Astral Drifter will auto-point to the new Magic Initiate instead of the Legacy version. Granted, at least we'll have the legacy version of that one, so it's possible.
(The fact we'll have that and that it could point to the old one is only further proof that the architecture is in place for the spells to be fully functional as legacy as well, btw.)
One more Ugly thing Beyond did is - Big sale not so long ago. Imagine Doing a sale on 5e content and then after a bit telling all the people who bought the books on sale that your books are WORTHLESS! We got you! Ha Ha! You thought you were buying stuff for cheap and will be able to use! Well guess what! You`re not! Ha! Now so long sucker! Your money is now ours!
This is inaccurate. The 2014 stuff isn't going away. Some character sheet functionality is being updated to 2024 but all the 2014 stuff is still fully useable outside of DDB AND most of it is still useable in DDB. It's compatible with the 2024 update.
Toolset content is explicitly part of what was purchased during the sale. That is now being removed. It is an outright lie to say that "The 2014 stuff isn't going away".
No, it's an outright lie to say it is going away. Even using your definition, only part of it is going away, which is exactly what I said. You have no standing to call me a liar.
So if someone takes one of the wheels off your car, it's fine. You still have some of them.
Sure, they will let you use that content you purchased for 5e.2014, but only on paper. The integration with character sheets ( which is the only thing you really purchase ) is broken with hopes you will give up having to "home brew" every dang thing you've used for the past 10 years and buy new versions off all the books you already "purchased".
This is my point though, this isn't actually true. It's just spells and items that have the same name as 2014 content. Everything else you have is still working.So at the most you can write down the description of the spells and items you use or just pull up the compendium on them in a separate tab etc..
Other then that all other 2014 content works with the digital character sheet.
Have you ever played on AboveVTT, Owlbear, or Foundry?
DDB rolls the dice, calculates the damage, provides the range of the spell. It speeds up combat way more than rolling physical dice around a table. This is the primary reason why most people bought books on DDB. Its why the PHB, Xanathar's, and Tasha's are among the highest selling books on DDB, even though they aren't the newest. Its why I, and many others pay for a Master Tier subscription to share books with the players. the players don't need to see modules or monsters. But they do benefit from the character builder.
Losing the 2014 monsters is a bummer, but that is much easier for DMs to overcome than the loss of PCs using DDB for their characters. Every ongoing 2014 campaign is done. People who bought Vecna and assorted other modules will not be able to complete them with the current PCs.
If I take 100 dollars out of your wallet, but leave a 1 dollar bill behind, can you charge me with theft?
How many subclasses have zero spells? How many campaigns have zero magic items?
Technically DDB could shut down completely on 2/1/2025 and you lose all the 2024 rules that you just bought. Would you still be defending WorC because you still have physical copies of the digital/physical bundle you ordered?
Hey all, we've heard your feedback and have published an article outlining our plan going forward. You can read it here. Thank you!
Thank you! I suspected that a big enough uproar here would actually get things done. You guys had the time and actually delivered what we were asking for.
I don't see anything about tooltips which makes me think that's still going to be updated, but if the biggest thing we have to deal with is reminder text, I can live with that.
Still going to hold my judgement until after the September 3rd launch to see EXACTLY how the addition of 2024 PHB affects the current character sheets. Once burned, twice shy as they say!
One more Ugly thing Beyond did is - Big sale not so long ago. Imagine Doing a sale on 5e content and then after a bit telling all the people who bought the books on sale that your books are WORTHLESS! We got you! Ha Ha! You thought you were buying stuff for cheap and will be able to use! Well guess what! You`re not! Ha! Now so long sucker! Your money is now ours!
This is inaccurate. The 2014 stuff isn't going away. Some character sheet functionality is being updated to 2024 but all the 2014 stuff is still fully useable outside of DDB AND most of it is still useable in DDB. It's compatible with the 2024 update.
Toolset content is explicitly part of what was purchased during the sale. That is now being removed. It is an outright lie to say that "The 2014 stuff isn't going away".
No, it's an outright lie to say it is going away. Even using your definition, only part of it is going away, which is exactly what I said. You have no standing to call me a liar.
If you prefer, saying "The 2014 stuff isn't going away" is a totally misleading statement to imply that you can continue using the 2014 rules, to the point that anyone reading it would feel lied to.
In actuality most of the "2014" stuff is being removed or rendered unusable, and it will be impossible to play under 2014 rules.
Again, that's completely inaccurate.
If I make a new character on 9/3, I'll be able to pick a 2014 class or a 2024 class, so classes didn't go anywhere.... I'll be able to pick a 2014 subclass or 2024 subclass so subclasses didn't go anywhere.... I'll be able to pick 2014 feats or 2024 feats so feats didn't go anywhere.... I'll be able to pick a 2014 species or a 2024 species so those didn't go anywhere either. All that content that was purchased is COMPLETELY accessible.
Furthermore, if I bought adventures, they're still accessible, the monsters from those adventures are still accessible, the player options from those adventures are still accessible.
The ONLY things that are not accessible according to the changelog are a subset of things that are being updated to the 2024 versions, namely spell descriptions and rule definitions.
So tell me again how I'm a liar when I say that you have access to nearly everything you purchased during the sale.
thing is if you pick a 2014 warlock and you get your invocations you will receive the 2024 spells and currently there is now way to homebrew the spells in to the invocations, so there will be no way to play a pure 2014 warlock therefor the class is broken in the since that they said we would be able to play our 2014 characters. this is all according to the sheets on beyond but thats what we all payed for and if we only wanted access in the compendium there used to be a way to buy books that way for a heavy discount. but they removed that because they knew this change was coming
And I never said otherwise.
you said you you would be able to pick a 2014 class [which is true] however the fact this update complete breaks certain classes on the sheets i feel makes that statement misleading. not trying to throw shade just trying to clarify. i do like your idea of a dnd classic i just dont want people misinformed
It breaks them if you're trying to play with 2014 rules. It does not break them in the least if you're playing with the 2024 update and I did not claim otherwise, thus there was no misinformation provided.
But thanks for your clarification.
So your argument is that we can play 2024 D&D, so that means 2014 hasn't been deleted?
Also I can't find any solutions provided by you. I did create a solution, but a WotC employee shut it down.
That’s great news on the step down on the forced change to spells but it really was such an unforced error as to be quite baffling.
Now the only question left… will the links continue to work for all content I have purchased in keeping with the version of the game I’m playing.
For example if my players fight a creature from the 2014 version books and I check their stats page, will their list of spells point to the 2014 version or the 2024 version of those spells.
As a dm the ability to ensure that I have access to the correct spell versions for my enemy creatures, without having to manually search for each spell in the 2014 compendium, is an important issue.
This is good news. I won't resubscribe until I see how it works for myself, but if my old characters can exist as is after September 3rd I will likely resubscribe.
It's a pity I had to deleted a handful of characters to fit in the 6 character limit to unsubscribe in the first place, but oh well.
Still not good enough. As a DM, I don't want to have 2024 tooltips and hyperlinks. You still haven't addressed monsters. I don't want to use 2024 monsters and I don't want 2014 monsters casting 2024 spells. You need a SITE-WIDE toggle. Again, why will I ever pay you money again if you just dump the last edition each time a new edition comes out? You need full support for 2014, 2024 and beyond. This whole "patched 5e" idea is terrible. Support both versions like separate editions because that's what they are.
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The toolset uses the rules. Without those rules, it doesn't function. All it's doing is executing the values fed into it by those rules. So the toolset would be compatible by default.
Thanks for helping me with the final push to switch my games away from D&D 5e entirely. With the inability to use DDB without annoying digging through the compendium, this is the easy time to switch fully to a new system instead of just off DDB for my games.
It's even a perfectly acceptable long-term solution.
I could definitely see this being an issue in the EU, which has far better consumer protection laws than the US.
Now I wonder if feats like Astral Drifter will auto-point to the new Magic Initiate instead of the Legacy version. Granted, at least we'll have the legacy version of that one, so it's possible.
(The fact we'll have that and that it could point to the old one is only further proof that the architecture is in place for the spells to be fully functional as legacy as well, btw.)
So if someone takes one of the wheels off your car, it's fine. You still have some of them.
Have you ever played on AboveVTT, Owlbear, or Foundry?
DDB rolls the dice, calculates the damage, provides the range of the spell. It speeds up combat way more than rolling physical dice around a table. This is the primary reason why most people bought books on DDB. Its why the PHB, Xanathar's, and Tasha's are among the highest selling books on DDB, even though they aren't the newest. Its why I, and many others pay for a Master Tier subscription to share books with the players. the players don't need to see modules or monsters. But they do benefit from the character builder.
Losing the 2014 monsters is a bummer, but that is much easier for DMs to overcome than the loss of PCs using DDB for their characters. Every ongoing 2014 campaign is done. People who bought Vecna and assorted other modules will not be able to complete them with the current PCs.
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D&D Beyond StaffHey all, we've heard your feedback and have published an article outlining our plan going forward. You can read it here. Thank you!
D&D Beyond Community Manager
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If I take 100 dollars out of your wallet, but leave a 1 dollar bill behind, can you charge me with theft?
How many subclasses have zero spells? How many campaigns have zero magic items?
Technically DDB could shut down completely on 2/1/2025 and you lose all the 2024 rules that you just bought. Would you still be defending WorC because you still have physical copies of the digital/physical bundle you ordered?
Huzzah!
Thank you! I suspected that a big enough uproar here would actually get things done. You guys had the time and actually delivered what we were asking for.
I don't see anything about tooltips which makes me think that's still going to be updated, but if the biggest thing we have to deal with is reminder text, I can live with that.
POWER TO THE PLAYERS! THEY CHANGED IT! https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update
Good news :)
Still going to hold my judgement until after the September 3rd launch to see EXACTLY how the addition of 2024 PHB affects the current character sheets. Once burned, twice shy as they say!
So your argument is that we can play 2024 D&D, so that means 2014 hasn't been deleted?
Also I can't find any solutions provided by you. I did create a solution, but a WotC employee shut it down.
WE WON
Finally, some good ******* food...
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update
That’s great news on the step down on the forced change to spells but it really was such an unforced error as to be quite baffling.
Now the only question left… will the links continue to work for all content I have purchased in keeping with the version of the game I’m playing.
For example if my players fight a creature from the 2014 version books and I check their stats page, will their list of spells point to the 2014 version or the 2024 version of those spells.
As a dm the ability to ensure that I have access to the correct spell versions for my enemy creatures, without having to manually search for each spell in the 2014 compendium, is an important issue.
good for you.
So how many subs you lost over your "misjudgement" ?
A suggestion for the future : Actually ask your audience beforehand instead of just pushing cash grabs. Oh wait mean before doing exiting improvments.
This is good news. I won't resubscribe until I see how it works for myself, but if my old characters can exist as is after September 3rd I will likely resubscribe.
It's a pity I had to deleted a handful of characters to fit in the 6 character limit to unsubscribe in the first place, but oh well.
Still not good enough. As a DM, I don't want to have 2024 tooltips and hyperlinks. You still haven't addressed monsters. I don't want to use 2024 monsters and I don't want 2014 monsters casting 2024 spells. You need a SITE-WIDE toggle. Again, why will I ever pay you money again if you just dump the last edition each time a new edition comes out? You need full support for 2014, 2024 and beyond. This whole "patched 5e" idea is terrible. Support both versions like separate editions because that's what they are.