This post has potentially manipulated dice roll results.
@Ben_Evolent; It seems to work with: "max(1d20, max(1d20, 1d20))"
(Yes, I know, it's very similar to the one with double max that you also tried, but sometimes the order in which you write things matters... this is obviously one of those cases).
Here's the formula at work:
20
16
13
20
14
20
20
16
11
20
However, this formula is slightly more favorable than Elven Accuracy would be...
Elven Accuracy, from what I read, just allows you to reroll one of the dice - so with the second roll you might get a result lower than the die you rerolled. Using "max" instead always keeps the best roll. So, while I was considering adding it to my beloved rolls generator, I decided not to, in the end.
Anyway, in my opinion, it is still the best approximation to Elven Accuracy that can be obtained with a single formula.
This post has potentially manipulated dice roll results.
@Ben_Evolent; It seems to work with: "max(1d20, max(1d20, 1d20))"
(Yes, I know, it's very similar to the one with double max that you also tried, but sometimes the order in which you write things matters... this is obviously one of those cases).
Nice! Thanks, that's one option that I didn't try.
However, this formula is slightly more favorable than Elven Accuracy would be...
Elven Accuracy, from what I read, just allows you to reroll one of the dice - so with the second roll you might get a result lower than the die you rerolled. Using "max" instead always keeps the best roll.
Hm. I've heard people say that Elven Accuracy is different from "triple advantage," but I guess I'm missing something. If I'm at a table IRL, and I have advantage with Elven Accuracy, then
Since I'm going to take the best of the two rolls in step 4, I should always pick the lowest of my two d20 rolls to reroll.
Then, because of advantage, I take the best of the two rolls.
Am I mathing wrong? Or do I not understand the wording of the feat?
Roll 1d20.
Roll 1d20.
Take the lowest of #1 and #2, and reroll that d20 for a new 1d20 value.
That gives me two results, the highest of #1 and #2, which I didn't reroll, and the new roll from #3.
I take the highest of the two values from #4 because of advantage.
Looking at steps 4 and 5, that's exactly max(max(1d20, 1d20), 1d20) which is the same as max(1d20, max(1d20, 1d20)) and max(1d20, 1d20, 1d20), right?
That is, I don't care if the reroll is lower because I can never get a result lower than the highest from steps #1 and #2. Elven Accuracy just lets me replace the lower of the two dice with a new 1d20 roll, but even if that third roll is the lowest one, I still end up with the max of all 3 rolls.
That is, I don't care if the reroll is lower because I can never get a result lower than the highest from steps #1 and #2. Elven Accuracy just lets me replace the lower of the two dice with a new 1d20 roll, but even if that third roll is the lowest one, I still end up with the max of all 3 rolls.
Thinking back to what you said, you must be right. I was misled by the fact that when you reroll, if you roll worse than the die you rolled you have to keep the value... but your observation is correct - since you are rolling with Advantage, you will definitely choose the lowest if you want to reroll - so even if you roll even lower it will make no difference.
Now that you make me think about it, it also seems to me that you always get the max of the three rolls (unless you make counterproductive decisions, such as rerolling your highest roll).
I would say that it is effectively a "triple advantage". At this point, this interesting roll is back in the running for inclusion in my tool!
Thinking back to what you said, you must be right. I was misled by the fact that when you reroll, if you roll worse than the die you rolled you have to keep the value... but your observation is correct - since you are rolling with Advantage, you will definitely choose the lowest if you want to reroll - so even if you roll even lower it will make no difference.
Yep. Which is why I'm confused when I see posts online that correct anyone who refers to Elven Accuracy as "triple advantage." Makes me feel like I'm not really reading the feat correctly.
Now that you make me think about it, it also seems to me that you always get the max of the three rolls (unless you make counterproductive decisions, such as rerolling your highest roll).
I would say that it is effectively a "triple advantage". At this point, this interesting roll is back in the running for inclusion in my tool!
Cool!
Yeah, I'm pretty good at math, but I kept wondering whether I was missing something because I saw all of the posts that say that Elven Accuracy is not equivalent to "triple advantage." But like you said, as long as you don't make a sub-optimal choice about which die to reroll, I think that it's mathematically equivalent to rolling 3d20 and taking the highest value.
I'll list what I believe the probabilities are for the final result of an attack roll with Elven Accuracy. If anyone has a concrete explanation that shows why the probabilities of the final results results for Elven Accuracy are different than that, I'd honestly love to hear it!
Making sure that 1d20cs>=N actually works with the roll:-1:critical check:
Attack: 23, Damage: 23
Testing 1d20cs>=N with multiple different damage types:
Attack: 27, Damage: 26 (magical slashing) + 5 (necrotic from Hex) = 31 (total)
Ability scores: 17 9 10 17 13 13
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Shortsword Attack: 16 Damage: 7 (piercing) + 2 (force) = Unable to parse dice roll.
Dagger Attack: 17 Damage: 6 (piercing) + 6 (force) = 12
Shortsword Attack: 16 Damage: 7 (piercing) + 5 (force) = 12
Dagger Attack: 23 Damage: 7 (piercing) + 4 (force) = 11
Green-Flaming Acid-Dripping Greatsword Attack: 26 Damage: 7 (slashing) + 5 (fire) + 1 (acid) = 13
2nd Target Damage: 12 (fire)
Green-Flaming Acid-Dripping Greatsword Attack: 20 Damage: 11 (slashing) + 7 (fire) + 6 (acid) = 24
2nd Target Damage: 11 (fire)
Green-Flaming Acid-Dripping Greatsword Attack: 17 Damage: 15 (slashing) + 4 (fire) + 4 (acid) = 23
2nd Target Damage: 11 (fire)
@Painted_Beyond - Have you ever built an attack role for advantage with Elven Accuracy? Any trick to it, or just use max?
Since max doesn't accept more than two arguments, I wonder if I can do max(1d20ad, 1d20):
Attack: Unable to parse dice roll.
Nope! Looks like the best option is max(max(1d20, 1d20), 1d20).
Attack: Unable to parse dice roll.
Ugh. Even that's not allowed. I guess it has to be two separate rolls. (Yuck!)
Attack: 15 (with Elven Accuracy 27), Damage: 11
Stat Rolls: 14, 13, 13, 12,
9, 15
Stat Rolls: 17, 15, 14, 12,
10, 9
Stat Rolls: 11, 12, 13, 10,
13, 11
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Nice solution, but it is a pity not being able to get it as a single roll... I'll try to reflect about it, thank you for asking.
@Ben_Evolent; It seems to work with: "max(1d20, max(1d20, 1d20))"
(Yes, I know, it's very similar to the one with double max that you also tried, but sometimes the order in which you write things matters... this is obviously one of those cases).
Here's the formula at work:
20
16
13
20
14
20
20
16
11
20
However, this formula is slightly more favorable than Elven Accuracy would be...
Elven Accuracy, from what I read, just allows you to reroll one of the dice - so with the second roll you might get a result lower than the die you rerolled. Using "max" instead always keeps the best roll. So, while I was considering adding it to my beloved rolls generator, I decided not to, in the end.
Anyway, in my opinion, it is still the best approximation to Elven Accuracy that can be obtained with a single formula.
Nice! Thanks, that's one option that I didn't try.
Hm. I've heard people say that Elven Accuracy is different from "triple advantage," but I guess I'm missing something. If I'm at a table IRL, and I have advantage with Elven Accuracy, then
Am I mathing wrong? Or do I not understand the wording of the feat?
Looking at steps 4 and 5, that's exactly max(max(1d20, 1d20), 1d20) which is the same as max(1d20, max(1d20, 1d20)) and max(1d20, 1d20, 1d20), right?
That is, I don't care if the reroll is lower because I can never get a result lower than the highest from steps #1 and #2. Elven Accuracy just lets me replace the lower of the two dice with a new 1d20 roll, but even if that third roll is the lowest one, I still end up with the max of all 3 rolls.
Thinking back to what you said, you must be right. I was misled by the fact that when you reroll, if you roll worse than the die you rolled you have to keep the value... but your observation is correct - since you are rolling with Advantage, you will definitely choose the lowest if you want to reroll - so even if you roll even lower it will make no difference.
Now that you make me think about it, it also seems to me that you always get the max of the three rolls (unless you make counterproductive decisions, such as rerolling your highest roll).
I would say that it is effectively a "triple advantage". At this point, this interesting roll is back in the running for inclusion in my tool!
Yep. Which is why I'm confused when I see posts online that correct anyone who refers to Elven Accuracy as "triple advantage." Makes me feel like I'm not really reading the feat correctly.
Cool!
Yeah, I'm pretty good at math, but I kept wondering whether I was missing something because I saw all of the posts that say that Elven Accuracy is not equivalent to "triple advantage." But like you said, as long as you don't make a sub-optimal choice about which die to reroll, I think that it's mathematically equivalent to rolling 3d20 and taking the highest value.
I'll list what I believe the probabilities are for the final result of an attack roll with Elven Accuracy. If anyone has a concrete explanation that shows why the probabilities of the final results results for Elven Accuracy are different than that, I'd honestly love to hear it!
Just testing Elven Accuracy when there's also an expanded critical involved:
Option #1: 24, Damage: 14
Option #2: Unable to parse dice roll., Damage: 6
Oops! I didn't mean to roll a nat-20 there. Let's try again with the cs>=N on the individual 1d20 values.
25, Damage: 12