Hey Laserwhit, just wanted to give a nudge that Guidance cannot affect initiative. It only affects ability checks, so things like skill checks or straight ability based (no proficiency) checks are the only eligible affected rolls.
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Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
Initiative is a dexterity ability check. This has been confirmed by Wizard's of the Coast: see -> ability-check
And if you want to see another example, create a Bard build on dndbeyond. When, at second level, you get "Jack of All Trades" which adds 1/2 of your proficiency to all ability checks, the Bards initiative goes up accordingly. They confirm it in their very own code, so Guidance is valid for initiative.
The real question is whether Mojake will allow me to have guidance ready in all initiative type situations. It makes sense if we are in intense or stealthy situations that guidance would be on the mind of the character but in a situation like Arc on guard duty it is not so obvious. Would he always have guidance up? I am assuming he would but Mojake is the final word.
How are clerics and bards not 1000% more utilized because of this??? To effectively bump initiative at will or passively is a massive boon for any class and to include it into two of the strongest supportive classes makes them even higher on my list of favorite spells.
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Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
Well it takes a minute to cast guidance, so I’m not sure that it’s really something that works practically. You can’t really be resting if you’re holding Guidance at the ready all night. I think it’s concentration, too. So there’s drawbacks.
edit- holy cow, nope. It’s an action. Still, holding it as an action is basically like concentrating on it all night.
The issue with it is more about does the character constantly go around offering up a prayer every single minute asking for a little bit of unspecified help sometime in the very near future. I've got to say I've never played with a DM who would allow it. The best answer to another person asking for this was "If I was your god or patron and you kept bothering me like this I'd stop granting any spells to you at all." In theory it can work when their is a reason to have cast the spell, for example if the party are about to open a door and suspect there may be action it could easily be prepared in advance, somebody on watch or marching through the countryside seems less likely to have just done it.
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Vhon - Level 2 Warlock - What shall become of the Drunken Sailor?
You are correct, I will be rolling initiative most of the time. However, since the potential combat is happening as I was going to bed and you guys are all behind me in time zone, I thought you may as well all have a chance to roll it yourself.
The real question is whether Mojake will allow me to have guidance ready in all initiative type situations. It makes sense if we are in intense or stealthy situations that guidance would be on the mind of the character but in a situation like Arc on guard duty it is not so obvious. Would he always have guidance up? I am assuming he would but Mojake is the final word.
So as per the rules in the PHB:
Concentration
Some spells require you to maintain concentration in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends.
If a spell must be maintained with concentration, that fact appears in its Duration entry, and the spell specifies how long you can concentrate on it. You can end concentration at any time (no action required).
Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn't interfere with concentration. The following factors can break concentration:
Casting another spell that requires concentration. You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration. You can't concentrate on two spells at once.
Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
Being incapacitated or killed. You lose concentration on a spell if you are incapacitated or if you die.
The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you're on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell.
I'd say that as long as you are not doing anything too strenuous or requiring concentration such as climbing a difficult cliff (you've likely have cast the spell prior to the climb anyway) or reading a scholarly book, are not surprised and are not affected by some form of environmental phenomena, you can concentrate on it.
As for your inactive state:
Sentry's Rest
When you take a long rest, you must spend at least six hours in an inactive, motionless state, rather than sleeping. In this state, you appear inert, but it doesn’t render you unconscious, and you can see and hear as normal.
By not being unconscious, you are by extension not incapacitated and are therefore able to take actions that do no require movement. Unfortunately, guidance has a somatic component and requires motion, so it wouldn't be eligible whilst resting.
I hope that clears things up. If you still have questions or are unhappy with this ruling, feel free to PM me.
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"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." -Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
As Phadeout explains above, there is also the matter of how it may interfere with your god's opinion of you. I clarified in a mechanical sense, but Phadeout makes an excellent point too.
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"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." -Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
I'm going to say my intiative is 1 badass and 2 TOTALLY needs to be counted. I'm a teacher by trade so following set rules is my thing. You said you would roll so I waited but if you're allowing everyone to roll I rolled. Down to you.
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Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
I'm going to say my intiative is 1 badass and 2 TOTALLY needs to be counted. I'm a teacher by trade so following set rules is my thing. You said you would roll so I waited but if you're allowing everyone to roll I rolled. Down to you.
I said whoever rolled initiative whilst I was asleep/morning routine could do so (I gave a 10 hour window - booksbooks, nschrock, Barlow, nitemarereality, Laserwhit and Phadeout all rolled) to expedite things and allow me to get a post up first thing without having to roll and sort 10+ initiative rolls.
Apologies but I'm going to be firm on this, because switching it up now sets a bad precedent for the future. I accept that I'm to blame in part for the confusion, and will make all future initiative rolls only count when rolled by myself. However, I believe I did make myself clear enough.
p.s. I used to be a secondary school science teacher also :)
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"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." -Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
No issue with having DM-rolled initiative. I'll be sure to state my actions as "charging into combat" or something similar for clarity.
Regarding the held Guidance, what about the following scenario:
Unknown beasties don't know we're here, or have no care, right? If the person casting Guidance also alerts them, it wouldn't necessarily trigger combat for us all. Instead, would it just use their Surprise round while the rest either get their own Surprise round or observe as desired?
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Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
No issue with having DM-rolled initiative. I'll be sure to state my actions as "charging into combat" or something similar for clarity.
Regarding the held Guidance, what about the following scenario:
Unknown beasties don't know we're here, or have no care, right? If the person casting Guidance also alerts them, it wouldn't necessarily trigger combat for us all. Instead, would it just use their Surprise round while the rest either get their own Surprise round or observe as desired?
From what I understand of your comment, you're asking if a guidance casting character would gain a surprise round on top of their casting if the party ambushed somebody? I would say no, the decision to cast the spell would use the action of their surprise round, for the sake of fairness and balance.
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"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." -Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
Yep, that was exactly my thought. Since the apey things are distracted with the mules, we are static and effectively unnoticed, so the Guidance would constitute a Surprise Round Action.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
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Hey Laserwhit, just wanted to give a nudge that Guidance cannot affect initiative. It only affects ability checks, so things like skill checks or straight ability based (no proficiency) checks are the only eligible affected rolls.
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser
Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale
Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
Initiative is a dexterity ability check. This has been confirmed by Wizard's of the Coast: see -> ability-check
And if you want to see another example, create a Bard build on dndbeyond. When, at second level, you get "Jack of All Trades" which adds 1/2 of your proficiency to all ability checks, the Bards initiative goes up accordingly. They confirm it in their very own code, so Guidance is valid for initiative.
Lot's of stuff ...
The real question is whether Mojake will allow me to have guidance ready in all initiative type situations. It makes sense if we are in intense or stealthy situations that guidance would be on the mind of the character but in a situation like Arc on guard duty it is not so obvious. Would he always have guidance up? I am assuming he would but Mojake is the final word.
Lot's of stuff ...
How are clerics and bards not 1000% more utilized because of this??? To effectively bump initiative at will or passively is a massive boon for any class and to include it into two of the strongest supportive classes makes them even higher on my list of favorite spells.
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser
Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale
Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
Well it takes a minute to cast guidance, so I’m not sure that it’s really something that works practically. You can’t really be resting if you’re holding Guidance at the ready all night. I think it’s concentration, too. So there’s drawbacks.
edit- holy cow, nope. It’s an action. Still, holding it as an action is basically like concentrating on it all night.
Paladin - warforged - orange
The issue with it is more about does the character constantly go around offering up a prayer every single minute asking for a little bit of unspecified help sometime in the very near future. I've got to say I've never played with a DM who would allow it. The best answer to another person asking for this was "If I was your god or patron and you kept bothering me like this I'd stop granting any spells to you at all." In theory it can work when their is a reason to have cast the spell, for example if the party are about to open a door and suspect there may be action it could easily be prepared in advance, somebody on watch or marching through the countryside seems less likely to have just done it.
Vhon - Level 2 Warlock - What shall become of the Drunken Sailor?
Lyreis - Level 6 Elf Fighter - Eberron: Omega
DM - Dzenda: The Cracks - DM - Dzenda: Whispered Tales
Time to catch up!
You are correct, I will be rolling initiative most of the time. However, since the potential combat is happening as I was going to bed and you guys are all behind me in time zone, I thought you may as well all have a chance to roll it yourself.
So as per the rules in the PHB:
Concentration
Some spells require you to maintain concentration in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends.
If a spell must be maintained with concentration, that fact appears in its Duration entry, and the spell specifies how long you can concentrate on it. You can end concentration at any time (no action required).
Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn't interfere with concentration. The following factors can break concentration:
The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you're on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell.
I'd say that as long as you are not doing anything too strenuous or requiring concentration such as climbing a difficult cliff (you've likely have cast the spell prior to the climb anyway) or reading a scholarly book, are not surprised and are not affected by some form of environmental phenomena, you can concentrate on it.
As for your inactive state:
Sentry's Rest
When you take a long rest, you must spend at least six hours in an inactive, motionless state, rather than sleeping. In this state, you appear inert, but it doesn’t render you unconscious, and you can see and hear as normal.
By not being unconscious, you are by extension not incapacitated and are therefore able to take actions that do no require movement. Unfortunately, guidance has a somatic component and requires motion, so it wouldn't be eligible whilst resting.
I hope that clears things up. If you still have questions or are unhappy with this ruling, feel free to PM me.
"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
As Phadeout explains above, there is also the matter of how it may interfere with your god's opinion of you. I clarified in a mechanical sense, but Phadeout makes an excellent point too.
"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
Just waiting on Phadeout as the last non-sleeping person to post.
"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
I've got to admit, the temptation to have this Girallon go full Donkey Kong and start throwing barrels of oil at you is overwhelming...
"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
See...I'm switching between shrinking away from the very idea of that and wanting to cheer wildly for it.
Stella Diamant, Human Rogue 17 (Swashbuckler), The Exploits of Misfit Company
Kat, Medtech, Cyberpunk: Red
Shi, Changeling Bard 4 (College of Spirits), Tyrant's Grasp
Dani, Human Artificer 9 (Armorer), Skulls and Starships
DM, Project Point (Teams Scimitar and Longsword)
Everything Else!
Samesies
Paladin - warforged - orange
In that case Conor will be staying up in the tree
Vhon - Level 2 Warlock - What shall become of the Drunken Sailor?
Lyreis - Level 6 Elf Fighter - Eberron: Omega
DM - Dzenda: The Cracks - DM - Dzenda: Whispered Tales
I'm going to say my intiative is 1 badass and 2 TOTALLY needs to be counted. I'm a teacher by trade so following set rules is my thing. You said you would roll so I waited but if you're allowing everyone to roll I rolled. Down to you.
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
I said whoever rolled initiative whilst I was asleep/morning routine could do so (I gave a 10 hour window - booksbooks, nschrock, Barlow, nitemarereality, Laserwhit and Phadeout all rolled) to expedite things and allow me to get a post up first thing without having to roll and sort 10+ initiative rolls.
Apologies but I'm going to be firm on this, because switching it up now sets a bad precedent for the future. I accept that I'm to blame in part for the confusion, and will make all future initiative rolls only count when rolled by myself. However, I believe I did make myself clear enough.
p.s. I used to be a secondary school science teacher also :)
"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
I broker no protest. I said it was down to you. I NEVER get Nat 20s on intiative just seems a shame to waste it.
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
I did cringe slightly when I saw that you rolled a nat 20 vs the nat 1 I rolled for you, but like I said I'm going to be more consistent henceforth.
"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
No issue with having DM-rolled initiative. I'll be sure to state my actions as "charging into combat" or something similar for clarity.
Regarding the held Guidance, what about the following scenario:
Unknown beasties don't know we're here, or have no care, right? If the person casting Guidance also alerts them, it wouldn't necessarily trigger combat for us all. Instead, would it just use their Surprise round while the rest either get their own Surprise round or observe as desired?
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser
Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale
Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
From what I understand of your comment, you're asking if a guidance casting character would gain a surprise round on top of their casting if the party ambushed somebody? I would say no, the decision to cast the spell would use the action of their surprise round, for the sake of fairness and balance.
"The most important step a person can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin; Oathbringer
Yep, that was exactly my thought. Since the apey things are distracted with the mules, we are static and effectively unnoticed, so the Guidance would constitute a Surprise Round Action.
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser
Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale
Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero