Party having fun going through this adventure - I thought the number problem with the golems was too easy so made another. I will present it here and post the answer in a month after my group has been played it through...
Five Stone Golems lined - each has a number on their chest they are in the following order 7, 1, 2, 3, 1.
The announce together "Put us in the correct order or die."
Not sure if it's oversimplifying, but my guess would be 7, 3, 2, 1, 1. Subtracting each subsequent number from the total moving left to right would leave you with a total of 0. Or the opposite, with them adding up to a total of the 7 golem, but subtracting would be my first guess.
Eh, not a fan of the setup mostly because the obvious answer looks to have to do with 3 2 1 1 adding up to 7. Making it a trick question of sorts since that leads them to an apparently easy solution. Especially with no hints whatsoever to at least get them thinking in the right mindset. You could assume they are notes in music 1=A, 2=B, 3=C, 7=G and that it makes a melody of some sort. 2-1-3-1-7 would be what I would pick and it would be entirely based on a guess and it looks nice to me. It can't be something about the shape of the numbers because of the double 1's being present. I guess 1*3*7=21 would be a possibility, but that could be arranged in a few different orders so that's out.
Time to smash the flesh golems because it will be the quicker way through. Besides they attack if you put it in the wrong order so this will get 'solved' pretty quickly one way or another. Alas the party is pushed towards wanton destruction instead of thoughtful insight. The barbarians eyes light up with glee.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
They are pretty smashed up all ready and would like to avoid fighting the STONE golems at the moment. (They are Flesh cover in plaster that will crack when the move...) They like puzzling things out - flew over the zoo encounter mostly missing out the Crayfish, Scorpions and Sea Lions to concentrate on the Manticores and Gnomes (Oni.)
There is more than one solution and you can use numbers or letters assigned to the numbers....
There is more than one solution and you can use numbers or letters assigned to the numbers....
from the sounds of it the numbers themselves may not be all that important, at least if Xathrus is to be trusted... If you can switch the numbers with letters and it will still work then there is something that is just pattern based that is important, AND there is more than one solution. I will be honest I am super stumped which enrages and infuriates me!!! but also intrigues.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
It is a tough one but the group like to think - they are well aware of the original problem. They have did mention one correct solution involving letters but did not attempt it...
ORDER = 71231 ? 71213, because a 1 is similar to an I, so it changes to ORDIE?
I have no idea. I don't like putting obscure puzzles like this in my game unless there's some hint or hints the players have that we do not. if they don't get more than one try, there's a crap load of potential solutions that might sound correct until you find out they're not...
Trust me I know my group - they hit a solution inside 20 mins (other stuff happening so ok) - but are very cautious and didn't jump in straight away - we shall see next month....
You might know your group but a puzzle with more than one solution is poor design. Basically, your players have to guess what you decided you wanted the correct answer to be. Each of the previous guesses were all potentially correct answers. The point of a puzzle is for the players to work out the only correct answer. Instead, your players now had to spend a certain amount of table time trying to figure out what you wanted them to say. You stated that the original puzzle was too easy, and yes, it probably is, but what you did instead of taking the time to develop a more difficult problem with one elegant solution that the players could overcome and have an actual sense of accomplishment is take the lazy way out and put in a half-baked idea that made you seem ol' so smart while frustrating your players and forcing them to lie to you about how much fun they are having. And to prove it you posted you silly little puzzle on this forum so you could tell people they got it wrong, when in truth there is no way for anyone to know if it is wrong because "there is more than one solution." So really no one has yet posted the solution that you decided would be right. That isn't clever, its petty.
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As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
Ok - the White Plume Mountain is the play thing of an extremely powerful mage who wants the power of the Others (my Cthulhu worshipping Elves - who are all evil and mostly insane...) There is a running theme of Other who can speak into the groups mind. The Others are fickle, arrogant, mostly out of touch with reality and marching to their our music. The group have had interactions with some of the others and are well aware of what they are up against.
My petty puzzle fits perfectly within the universe and what they have been up against in the adventure so far. The party are very cautious and aware of what the Others will do....
I put the puzzle up as an idea - yes it is hard but in the context of the last 18 months play - no problem .
The puzzle has one elegant solution - which in real terms means you can arrange the golems in more than one way...would you deny symmetry? (That is not a clue by the way.)
Do not diss my puzzle because you can't do it just accept you do not have enough information about my campaign - for which I am sorry. Play your game how you like, leave me and my players to game we are enjoying...
My players are not lying we are very open about they want the campaign to evolve and I am giving them that...
Play your game how you like, leave me and my players to game we are enjoying...
I mean, if you're going to be like that, then why did you even share your puzzle on the forum? I can't help but think Auberginian was spot on with you just wanting to feel smart.
Greetings - I put the puzzle up as a bit of fun - I like puzzles and how other people play. All I get is people having a go at me - accusing me of not knowing my players, who by the way are lying to me and not enjoying the game....
...Challenge people! If it's too easy it's not worth doing. So you haven't figured it out - you haven't got the rest of the group to bounce ideas of - you don't know how bats**t crazy the Others are and the mind games they play - you haven't been playing the campaign for over a year.
As I said they had a correct solution in under 20 minutes but didn't offer it because they want to consider other options - they know the Others think funny and are careful not to fall into the trap of offering an obvious solution - that would be too easy.
They spent three hours (their choice) discussing how to defeat the giant crab and recover the weapon they were after - it's how they like to play.
P.S. did you read Auberginian's post? It's ok to attack me and tell me my players are lying to me instead of enjoying the challenge for what it is? Dare to be different, we get enough hassle from those who don't play without having to turn on each other.
P.S.S. Power playing sucks and min/maxing should be banned but that's another thread... :)
I mean I liked it, as I said it must frustrate me but its more because I want to figure it out. Puzzle should be challenging.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Elves are immortal - they do not die from old age - they have a lot of time on their hands - you know for puzzling out the secrets of the universe (you didn't think they sat round all day writing poetry did you?) Given too much time and an inquisitive mind certain patterns might come to mind - music can be composed, buildings designed, poetry will be written but it will cause you to go mad if you listen to it...
There are things in the Multiverse far older and more powerful than the Gods....the Others (for you would no longer recognise them as Elves) have found the harmonies of this Universe and they want to spread the word...
Any puzzle set by one of these is not going to be a simple affair but you would know this - there is but one solution, which in our universe leads to many (but not infinite) arrangements of the Golems...to paraphrase "When you stare in to the Abyss, the Abyss stares back into you..."
I just remembered to come back and check this, I really liked it. Even with all the frustration trying to puzzle it out myself I like it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
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Party having fun going through this adventure - I thought the number problem with the golems was too easy so made another. I will present it here and post the answer in a month after my group has been played it through...
Five Stone Golems lined - each has a number on their chest they are in the following order 7, 1, 2, 3, 1.
The announce together "Put us in the correct order or die."
Have fun....
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
Not sure if it's oversimplifying, but my guess would be 7, 3, 2, 1, 1. Subtracting each subsequent number from the total moving left to right would leave you with a total of 0. Or the opposite, with them adding up to a total of the 7 golem, but subtracting would be my first guess.
Nope :)
(Nice try - they discussed that one - I am a maths teacher by the way just to make things extra awkward)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
Eh, not a fan of the setup mostly because the obvious answer looks to have to do with 3 2 1 1 adding up to 7. Making it a trick question of sorts since that leads them to an apparently easy solution. Especially with no hints whatsoever to at least get them thinking in the right mindset. You could assume they are notes in music 1=A, 2=B, 3=C, 7=G and that it makes a melody of some sort. 2-1-3-1-7 would be what I would pick and it would be entirely based on a guess and it looks nice to me. It can't be something about the shape of the numbers because of the double 1's being present. I guess 1*3*7=21 would be a possibility, but that could be arranged in a few different orders so that's out.
Time to smash the flesh golems because it will be the quicker way through. Besides they attack if you put it in the wrong order so this will get 'solved' pretty quickly one way or another. Alas the party is pushed towards wanton destruction instead of thoughtful insight. The barbarians eyes light up with glee.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
They are pretty smashed up all ready and would like to avoid fighting the STONE golems at the moment. (They are Flesh cover in plaster that will crack when the move...) They like puzzling things out - flew over the zoo encounter mostly missing out the Crayfish, Scorpions and Sea Lions to concentrate on the Manticores and Gnomes (Oni.)
There is more than one solution and you can use numbers or letters assigned to the numbers....
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
1, 1, 2, 3, 7 (Multiply the previous 2 and then add 1? (1*1)+1 = 2, (1*2)+1 = 3, (3*2)+1=7)
Nope
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
It is a tough one but the group like to think - they are well aware of the original problem. They have did mention one correct solution involving letters but did not attempt it...
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
ORDER = 71231 ? 71213, because a 1 is similar to an I, so it changes to ORDIE?
I have no idea. I don't like putting obscure puzzles like this in my game unless there's some hint or hints the players have that we do not. if they don't get more than one try, there's a crap load of potential solutions that might sound correct until you find out they're not...
my west marches campaign wiki: http://solace5e.com/
Trust me I know my group - they hit a solution inside 20 mins (other stuff happening so ok) - but are very cautious and didn't jump in straight away - we shall see next month....
PS your solution is not correct.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
You might know your group but a puzzle with more than one solution is poor design. Basically, your players have to guess what you decided you wanted the correct answer to be. Each of the previous guesses were all potentially correct answers. The point of a puzzle is for the players to work out the only correct answer. Instead, your players now had to spend a certain amount of table time trying to figure out what you wanted them to say. You stated that the original puzzle was too easy, and yes, it probably is, but what you did instead of taking the time to develop a more difficult problem with one elegant solution that the players could overcome and have an actual sense of accomplishment is take the lazy way out and put in a half-baked idea that made you seem ol' so smart while frustrating your players and forcing them to lie to you about how much fun they are having. And to prove it you posted you silly little puzzle on this forum so you could tell people they got it wrong, when in truth there is no way for anyone to know if it is wrong because "there is more than one solution." So really no one has yet posted the solution that you decided would be right. That isn't clever, its petty.
As for me, I choose to believe that an extinct thunder lizard is running a game of Dungeons & Dragons via Twitter!
Ok - the White Plume Mountain is the play thing of an extremely powerful mage who wants the power of the Others (my Cthulhu worshipping Elves - who are all evil and mostly insane...) There is a running theme of Other who can speak into the groups mind. The Others are fickle, arrogant, mostly out of touch with reality and marching to their our music. The group have had interactions with some of the others and are well aware of what they are up against.
My petty puzzle fits perfectly within the universe and what they have been up against in the adventure so far. The party are very cautious and aware of what the Others will do....
I put the puzzle up as an idea - yes it is hard but in the context of the last 18 months play - no problem .
The puzzle has one elegant solution - which in real terms means you can arrange the golems in more than one way...would you deny symmetry? (That is not a clue by the way.)
Do not diss my puzzle because you can't do it just accept you do not have enough information about my campaign - for which I am sorry. Play your game how you like, leave me and my players to game we are enjoying...
My players are not lying we are very open about they want the campaign to evolve and I am giving them that...
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
my west marches campaign wiki: http://solace5e.com/
Greetings - I put the puzzle up as a bit of fun - I like puzzles and how other people play. All I get is people having a go at me - accusing me of not knowing my players, who by the way are lying to me and not enjoying the game....
...Challenge people! If it's too easy it's not worth doing. So you haven't figured it out - you haven't got the rest of the group to bounce ideas of - you don't know how bats**t crazy the Others are and the mind games they play - you haven't been playing the campaign for over a year.
As I said they had a correct solution in under 20 minutes but didn't offer it because they want to consider other options - they know the Others think funny and are careful not to fall into the trap of offering an obvious solution - that would be too easy.
They spent three hours (their choice) discussing how to defeat the giant crab and recover the weapon they were after - it's how they like to play.
P.S. did you read Auberginian's post? It's ok to attack me and tell me my players are lying to me instead of enjoying the challenge for what it is? Dare to be different, we get enough hassle from those who don't play without having to turn on each other.
P.S.S. Power playing sucks and min/maxing should be banned but that's another thread... :)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
As Dr Ninestein said "Always expect the unexpected!"
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
I mean I liked it, as I said it must frustrate me but its more because I want to figure it out. Puzzle should be challenging.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Greetings,
Elves are immortal - they do not die from old age - they have a lot of time on their hands - you know for puzzling out the secrets of the universe (you didn't think they sat round all day writing poetry did you?) Given too much time and an inquisitive mind certain patterns might come to mind - music can be composed, buildings designed, poetry will be written but it will cause you to go mad if you listen to it...
There are things in the Multiverse far older and more powerful than the Gods....the Others (for you would no longer recognise them as Elves) have found the harmonies of this Universe and they want to spread the word...
Any puzzle set by one of these is not going to be a simple affair but you would know this - there is but one solution, which in our universe leads to many (but not infinite) arrangements of the Golems...to paraphrase "When you stare in to the Abyss, the Abyss stares back into you..."
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
Ok we played last night and here is the solution:
You can put 4 of the Golems in any justified order you want, but the fifth must be left out.
They realised they could turn them upside down and spell the word LIES but have one I left over....
Enjoy or hate - the Vampire killed them all anyway....
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....
I just remembered to come back and check this, I really liked it. Even with all the frustration trying to puzzle it out myself I like it.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."