I'm DM'ing what is now high level Eberron campaign and the players are thinking of using Sharn as a home location. One of the ideas floated was to expand a cave in the mud cave area near the water (or to perhaps make their own around the bend in the river with stoneshape/transmute rock). Putting aside the doing this without getting noticed and in heaps of trouble problem, causing local issues, etc -- I'm thinking that something at or near water level would end up cutting into the depths and the sewers, but probably not the cogs as those would be lower down?
Does anyone know if there are any canonical sources of the elevation of the cogs, depths and sewers relative to the water? (I'm guessing the sewer has to be at about that height or higher in order to flow, thus the depths have to be around that height or maybe higher but the cogs should be mostly lower?).
The other main candidate (as the druid would like to see the sky) is something just outside town, perhaps even in the City of the Dead, which is I understand higher than most of the city? That draft plan is outside the city, because they are assuming that light pollution from the city is probably pretty strong (so a place on the upper levels might not be good for viewing the sky). Does anyone know of a source for the topology around Sharn? Are there any canonical observatories that anyone knows of that might give an idea if light pollution is really an issue?
I don't personally know of explicit canon answers to either question. If they do exist, they'd probably be in the 3.5e "Sharn, City of Towers" sourcebook.
Rising from the Last War is pretty ambiguous on the elevation point, only describing the Cogs as "below" the sewers. The big map in the "Wards of Sharn" section would seem to indicate the Cogs are below sea level. Most sewers rely on gravity to drain, so it's likely they're slightly above sea level, right around where your players are talking about, but there are other kinds of sewers (not before the late 19th century, but it's not impossible that Eberron could magitek up a vacuum sewer). And gravity is more of a suggestion in Sharn anyway.
The City of the Dead is built into a cliff face, but I don't know if it's actually taller than Sharn, since that'd be a pretty dramatic cliff. As for light pollution and/or observatories... there's an open-air theater in Upper Menthis called the Stargazer; could imply stars are visible. But on the other hand this image looks pretty lit up:
In a city as vertical as Sharn, I imagine sewers would really be tiered. So, each level would have their own sewers that collect ... well, stuff ... from that level, then it's directed to a drain, and plummets down to the next lower level, and the next, and the next. At the lowest level, I imagine there's quite a disgusting series of tunnels, pipes, cisterns and drains inhabited by slimes and molds and rats and otyughs and all manner of foulness.
To keep it clean and functional, I guess clever people in the city administration have rainwater reservoirs, and from time to time they flush a few million gallons of water through everything, to the great annoyance of a great many monsters down there.
Anyways if that system ever fails, I guess that could make for a smelly adventure.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, Rising from the Last War's description is not too far off from that:
The upper wards of Sharn use a network of chutes to funnel garbage down into the sewers. Refuse and filth is channeled into cavernous midden chambers, where it is left to rot or be devoured by the vermin and oozes that inhabit the sewers. Smaller tunnels channel wastewater into purification centers, where magewrights use magic to cleanse the water. A special unit of the Sharn Watch protects the purification chambers. Beyond these small, vital areas, the sewers are lawless.
Yeah, Rising from the Last War's description is not too far off from that:
The upper wards of Sharn use a network of chutes to funnel garbage down into the sewers. Refuse and filth is channeled into cavernous midden chambers, where it is left to rot or be devoured by the vermin and oozes that inhabit the sewers. Smaller tunnels channel wastewater into purification centers, where magewrights use magic to cleanse the water. A special unit of the Sharn Watch protects the purification chambers. Beyond these small, vital areas, the sewers are lawless.
Oh! That's strangely accurate. I wonder if I read that long ago, forgot all about it, and then deluded myself that I just made it up, all on my own - lulz =D
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Is there a story reason that they can't be in Sharn proper? What's a high level group doing making their base in a cave in the mud? Apologies that this isn't an answer to your question, but I was just curious if there was a circumstance that led them to need to stay a bit more "out of sight".
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
The biggest is the “Druid” (circle of the stars druid) would really like to live somewhere they can see the sky or be closer to nature of some sort (this group did not start in/around Sharn so this character is being half drug by the other PCs into a side quest that became more interesting than the base story. The upside for the Druid is the character has an aberrant dragon mark, and the idea of “family” of sorts in the Tarkanans is very appealing to the character, but if they are in/around Sharn the Druid would prefer to be as Druidy as possible. The character is torn between worlds if you will.
The second is they are high enough level that they want to lay low as there is a danger of making waves. Sharn works as a home base for the group because it is a transportation hub and the university library, (and the Druid being connected to the Tarkanans does help them fence things from dungeon crawls, thefts out of town, etc) but if they are too high profile they fear get entangled in local things beyond jobs and nearly free healing (material component costs) for the Tarkanans (which are quiet by default). The Druid can cast 7th level spells, so I’m thinking the healing he is (nearly) donating to the Tarkanans is more than adequate to cover for any eccentricities like living in dug out mud cave or a grave yard. They could afford almost anything, but too much opulence would get noticed and people might start trying to figure out who the new neighbors are.
The rest of the group would probably stay with the Druid if it isn’t too inconvenient; the Druid won’t object to making the space comfortable (they won’t live in mud like the Druid would, but a well appointed underground cavern, or some sort of oversized cottage on the outskirts of a graveyard that they got to in large part decorate the inside of would work). The players are likely to avoid splitting the party for long periods, just in case. The players have been burnt by that with some previous characters.
I'm DM'ing what is now high level Eberron campaign and the players are thinking of using Sharn as a home location. One of the ideas floated was to expand a cave in the mud cave area near the water (or to perhaps make their own around the bend in the river with stoneshape/transmute rock). Putting aside the doing this without getting noticed and in heaps of trouble problem, causing local issues, etc -- I'm thinking that something at or near water level would end up cutting into the depths and the sewers, but probably not the cogs as those would be lower down?
Does anyone know if there are any canonical sources of the elevation of the cogs, depths and sewers relative to the water? (I'm guessing the sewer has to be at about that height or higher in order to flow, thus the depths have to be around that height or maybe higher but the cogs should be mostly lower?).
The other main candidate (as the druid would like to see the sky) is something just outside town, perhaps even in the City of the Dead, which is I understand higher than most of the city? That draft plan is outside the city, because they are assuming that light pollution from the city is probably pretty strong (so a place on the upper levels might not be good for viewing the sky). Does anyone know of a source for the topology around Sharn? Are there any canonical observatories that anyone knows of that might give an idea if light pollution is really an issue?
Thanks!
I don't personally know of explicit canon answers to either question. If they do exist, they'd probably be in the 3.5e "Sharn, City of Towers" sourcebook.
Rising from the Last War is pretty ambiguous on the elevation point, only describing the Cogs as "below" the sewers. The big map in the "Wards of Sharn" section would seem to indicate the Cogs are below sea level. Most sewers rely on gravity to drain, so it's likely they're slightly above sea level, right around where your players are talking about, but there are other kinds of sewers (not before the late 19th century, but it's not impossible that Eberron could magitek up a vacuum sewer). And gravity is more of a suggestion in Sharn anyway.
The City of the Dead is built into a cliff face, but I don't know if it's actually taller than Sharn, since that'd be a pretty dramatic cliff. As for light pollution and/or observatories... there's an open-air theater in Upper Menthis called the Stargazer; could imply stars are visible. But on the other hand this image looks pretty lit up:
Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral
Thanks for the picture and the sanity check! Yah, the moons would be visible but not much else.
Yeah your players' characters would want to be outside the city (maybe in First Tower?) if they want space for a Bastion where they can stargaze...
In a city as vertical as Sharn, I imagine sewers would really be tiered. So, each level would have their own sewers that collect ... well, stuff ... from that level, then it's directed to a drain, and plummets down to the next lower level, and the next, and the next. At the lowest level, I imagine there's quite a disgusting series of tunnels, pipes, cisterns and drains inhabited by slimes and molds and rats and otyughs and all manner of foulness.
To keep it clean and functional, I guess clever people in the city administration have rainwater reservoirs, and from time to time they flush a few million gallons of water through everything, to the great annoyance of a great many monsters down there.
Anyways if that system ever fails, I guess that could make for a smelly adventure.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, Rising from the Last War's description is not too far off from that:
Medium humanoid (human), lawful neutral
Oh! That's strangely accurate. I wonder if I read that long ago, forgot all about it, and then deluded myself that I just made it up, all on my own - lulz =D
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Is there a story reason that they can't be in Sharn proper? What's a high level group doing making their base in a cave in the mud? Apologies that this isn't an answer to your question, but I was just curious if there was a circumstance that led them to need to stay a bit more "out of sight".
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
There are two reasons.
The rest of the group would probably stay with the Druid if it isn’t too inconvenient; the Druid won’t object to making the space comfortable (they won’t live in mud like the Druid would, but a well appointed underground cavern, or some sort of oversized cottage on the outskirts of a graveyard that they got to in large part decorate the inside of would work). The players are likely to avoid splitting the party for long periods, just in case. The players have been burnt by that with some previous characters.